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Post by Guts on Jul 14, 2017 2:15:27 GMT
It sounds like you had a pretty baseline experience honestly just where some people go "what no renegade options?0/10" your response is actually measured. I'm nearing the end of my second run right now. I'm avoiding almost all the tasks. My first playthrough lasted about as long as any other Mass Effect playthrough.
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Post by Guts on Jul 14, 2017 2:15:53 GMT
What if they've just gotten worse and worse and making good games? The thing is, their mediocre efforts used to still be better than what the other guys were making, but that's not the case anymore. Hi Jason. I thought you said you were going to ignore me a while back? Yet here we are. Erm, why did you call him Jason?
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Post by fatherjerusalem on Jul 14, 2017 2:17:00 GMT
The 7 of 9 companion DLC was really really good, but I wasn't a big fan of the Borg Expansion that came later.
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Post by fatherjerusalem on Jul 14, 2017 2:18:46 GMT
Hi Jason. I thought you said you were going to ignore me a while back? Yet here we are. Erm, why did you call him Jason? He's Jason Schreier, noted gaming "journalist" for Kotaku. (note: he's probably not actually Jason Schreier, but he's definitely a Jason Schreier fanboy - his sig is even promotion for Schreier's book)
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Post by alanc9 on Jul 14, 2017 2:18:47 GMT
What was with the complaints? It wasn't a remastered ME1. Or a revamped ME3 where now Shepard can kill the reaper armada with one punch while whistling a jaunty tune and eating a meatpie and then live happily ever after with his/her space waifu. Basically it was a new Bioware game, and every new Bioware game is the worst game ever made, and not up to the previously released games' standards (the previously released games which were, when THEY were the new Bioware game, the worst game ever made, of course). Mass Effect comes out... "rabble rabble, it's not KOTOR, it sucks!" Mass Effect 2 comes out... "rabble rabble they changed everything from Mass Effect, it sucks!" Mass Effect 3 comes out... "rabble rabble I can't punch the reapers with my dick and Diana Allers is lame and it's not ME2, it sucks!" (to be fair, the Diana Allers complaint was a valid one). Dragon Age comes out... "rabble rabble it's not Baldur's Gate, it sucks!" Dragon Age 2 comes out... "rabble rabble they changed everything from Dragon Age, it sucks!" Dragon Age Inquisition comes out... "rabble rabble DAE think that Dragon Age 2 was an underrated gem? Inquisition sucks in comparison!" (Dragon Age 2 was an underrated gem though). It's the Cycle of Bioware. What if they've just gotten worse and worse and making good games? The thing is, their mediocre efforts used to still be better than what the other guys were making, but that's not the case anymore. And what if that hasn't happened? From where I sit Bio's just gone up and down as they usually do. Even if ME:A turns out to be their worst game since Jade Empire, I liked the last couple of games just fine (I can't judge ME:A until my replacement PC arrives, so I don't know how I'll like it relative to ME3 and DAI)
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Post by Guts on Jul 14, 2017 2:30:43 GMT
Erm, why did you call him Jason? He's Jason Schreier, noted gaming "journalist" for Kotaku. (note: he's probably not actually Jason Schreier, but he's definitely a Jason Schreier fanboy - his sig is even promotion for Schreier's book) I'm still skeptical of the articles Schreier made, is it common for other gaming journalist sources to basically parrot what Schreier said?
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 14, 2017 2:57:43 GMT
He's Jason Schreier, noted gaming "journalist" for Kotaku. (note: he's probably not actually Jason Schreier, but he's definitely a Jason Schreier fanboy - his sig is even promotion for Schreier's book) I'm still skeptical of the articles Schreier made, is it common for other gaming journalist sources to basically parrot what Schreier said? No it isn't. It's odd that they all jumped on his cuckoo express train.
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Post by Guts on Jul 14, 2017 3:14:10 GMT
I'm still skeptical of the articles Schreier made, is it common for other gaming journalist sources to basically parrot what Schreier said? No it isn't. It's odd that they all jumped on his cuckoo express train. You mean when he makes all those articles talking about how Mass Effect is getting put on ice, why it failed, and No DLC? BTW your username triggers me.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 14, 2017 3:18:13 GMT
No it isn't. It's odd that they all jumped on his cuckoo express train. You mean when he makes all those articles talking about how Mass Effect is getting put on ice, why it failed, and No DLC? BTW your username triggers me. What? How the hell does my username trigger anything?
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Post by Guts on Jul 14, 2017 3:24:10 GMT
You mean when he makes all those articles talking about how Mass Effect is getting put on ice, why it failed, and No DLC? BTW your username triggers me. What? How the hell does my username trigger anything? I'm a Berserk fan, your username made me think of Griffith, one of the main characters.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 14, 2017 3:29:50 GMT
What? How the hell does my username trigger anything? I'm a Berserk fan, your username made me think of Griffith, one of the main characters. Oh man haven't been played that in ages. Lol.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 14, 2017 3:47:56 GMT
Never saw that one but I've been told my guilty pleasure SGU is close. SGU is muuuuuuuuuuuuucccchh darker but the basic premise is the same. Basically Voyager is like SGU without Rush and Young being at eachothers throats all the time.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 14, 2017 3:52:55 GMT
Never saw that one but I've been told my guilty pleasure SGU is close. SGU is muuuuuuuuuuuuucccchh darker but the basic premise is the same. Basically Voyager is like SGU without Rush and Young being at eachothers throats all the time. I have to admit I loved this part in season 1.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 14, 2017 3:57:40 GMT
SGU is muuuuuuuuuuuuucccchh darker but the basic premise is the same. Basically Voyager is like SGU without Rush and Young being at eachothers throats all the time. I have to admit I loved this part in season 1. i'm sorry but Rush deserved it.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 14, 2017 3:58:18 GMT
I have to admit I loved this part in season 1. i'm sorry but Rush deserved it. Even more so the second time 😂.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jul 14, 2017 4:16:04 GMT
That's just your opinion. 👏 👏 👏 You learned! I'm so proud! 😂
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Post by clips7 on Jul 14, 2017 4:44:56 GMT
Inside doesn't work unless you're actually going to address the ME3 final state-- not just the endings, but stuff like the fate of the quarians too. And if you're going to address that, then you don't need the ME:A plot in the first place. "Lore breaking" is a bit hyperbolic. The challenges of getting to Andromeda are known to be soluble in the MEU. The only issue I had Lore-wise was SAM. SAM was a character I had so many problems with, lore-wise, story-wise, & gameplay-wise. Gameplay-wise, he was the Navi of Andromeda IMHO. Story-wise, he solved pretty much everything, which is lazy from a writing standpoint, but it also hurts Ryder, it doesn't give them a chance to grow as a character or have them solve problem on their own, it also makes the whole sibling thing kinda worthless, you could've had your sibling help you throughout the game and vice versa. Lore-wise, I felt Alec Ryder seemed stubbornly ignorant of the whole Quarian and Geth thing, I would suspect that the Initiative would have been a lot more cautious of including AI nsidering that, I mean taking a risk including them is fine, as long as their capabilities are restricted. I felt the same way. I kinda felt Ryder relied a bit too heavily on Sam to solve his problems for him. And maybe it made sense on some level that Sam was created to help Ryder open the vaults, but to me it hindered his growth a bit as a character because he relied so heavily on Sam.....dude seemed lost without him or whenever he lost contact with him, it seemed like he was about to be in a crisis. Sheperd i believe did at the very least request information from EDI or would ask of her take on the issue from time to time, but when it seemed like he was clueless on an issue, he moreso leaned on the experience of his crew for direction and knowledge and his struggles throughout the entire franchise in trying to pave the way for dealing with the Reaper threat exposed his flaws as a human and kept him organic. Ryder seemed like he had "Google" on speed dial in reference to Sam....
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Post by Guts on Jul 14, 2017 6:35:08 GMT
Don't you have anything more useful to reply my post with? Are you that shaken by everyone else that you need to constantly reassure yourself of this? Jesus Christ, get your kindergarten nonsense away. You're as reliable as the next guy with a MEA avatar. I could have a more useful reply if your original statement was useful as well. But since your original statement boils down to "Game is flawed but people refuse to see it", I didn't feel it actually deserved a well thought out response. You seem to refuse to see anything good about the game, so the counter statement is true. MEA haterz refuse to see that the game is not a failure or as flawed as some would say. But I can break it down into a more well thought out argument for ya, if movie references aren't your thing. So let's look at your statement "MEA is incredibly flawed." You have to agree that that is a subjective statement. If you look at things like metacritic reviews from professional reviewers, the majority lie in the 70-80 range. While not stellar, those scores do not denote an incredibly flawed have, merely a game that could be better. Looking at the user review side and... Well now I'm blind. But actually reading those reviews (and cleaning up the ensuing vomit) clearly shows that many of the very low reviews are from people with issues that go beyond the game (SJW's, No Shep, Manveir Heir, EA sux, etc) and while some make reasonable arguments, so many are 0's for reasons that do not fall under the grading guidelines that they can be ignored. Now reviews and their scores are also subjective/opinions, but you can use them as a metric for quantifying the data to try to make sense out of the general point of view of the game. Thus, looking at review scores and opinions in those reviews from professional reviewers, MEA is not an objectively "incredibly flawed" game. Thus your opinion that it is is, as I said before, just that. Your Opinion, Man. Secondly we can look at why you think the game is deeply flawed. Things like animations, graphics, glitches, etc, are fairly objective. They exist or they don't. In MEA's case, while at launch there were issues with these, many/most have been sorted out by the continued patches. Thus those reasons for being "incredibly flawed" can be taken out. So then you are left with gameplay, story, dialogue, etc. Gameplay I think was pretty universally agreed to be very good in Andromeda. You might not think so, but that would be going against what many reviewers and people here have said, so again, your opinion. Story is harder. Very much a personal opinion, but there can be some objectivity. Full Metal Jacket is fairly objectively better than a Disney channel original movie. But in this case, comparing the story of MEA to something in it's same genre/level, the OT or TW3, it can't be agreed that MEA's is significantly worse. Again, your opinion. So what we learned is that my original statement of your opinion that the game is "incredibly flawed" is, in fact, true, and is totally "Just, like, your opinion, man." Thanks for playing. Metacritic user scores are abysmal. In some ways I find the behaviour of the user scores to be almost comically predictable. Look at ME3 for instance, 5.6/10 even though the game itself was good despite the fact that the ending sucked. Mass Effect Andromeda, 4.9/10, you're milage may vary sure, but the game is more a 7/10-8/10 for me. I think the user scores on metacritic when it comes to video games show the embarassing, melodramatic side of gamer culture, the kind of melodrama that make middle schoolers look mature.
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Post by Guts on Jul 14, 2017 6:36:49 GMT
SGU is muuuuuuuuuuuuucccchh darker but the basic premise is the same. Basically Voyager is like SGU without Rush and Young being at eachothers throats all the time. I have to admit I loved this part in season 1. I haven't watched that show at all, but I recognize that actor from Trainspotting.
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Post by Pearl on Jul 14, 2017 7:14:57 GMT
What if they've just gotten worse and worse and making good games? The thing is, their mediocre efforts used to still be better than what the other guys were making, but that's not the case anymore. Hi Jason. I thought you said you were going to ignore me a while back? Yet here we are. this is truly the epitome of rebuttals, goddamn dude
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2017 13:22:38 GMT
Getting a wee bit exasperated now, are we? Truth is, it really is just your opinion, and anyone can dismiss it as easily as you dismiss other opinions. It's the nature of opinions my dude. Then why are we even here? Huh? If people get so easily butthurt to the point of saying "This is your opinion" what's even the point? Where do this go? Can people be even more obvious? Seriously, not talking about you, but some here can't deal with any negative point they feel the need to reassure themselves their opinion is relevant. I could easily say here too, "This is your opinion", end of talk. Get what I am saying? It's juvenile as heck. Considering the biting nature in which you deal with people with differing opinions, it's not all the surprising that they disengage at the earliest opportunity with the flimsiest of excuses. Getting into the more nihilistic aspect of "what is the point?" I would argue that there is no point. Forums are relatively pointless in the grand scheme of things and if you can't deal with users disregarding what you say with a flimsy yet concrete point then I can't really be of any assistance. If you feel like you are wasting your time on the boards, then don't waste your time on the boards. If your looking to bash ME:A and expect everyone to agree on what you say then you don't truly understand the nature of subjective opinions on said topic. This isn't a science with empirical evidence, it is matter of opinion, one that is entirely subjective and beholden to the eyes of the user. Saying something to the effect of "that's just your opinion," is as legitimate as any ME:A sucks diatribe.
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Post by Vortex13 on Jul 14, 2017 16:08:07 GMT
In my personal and honest opinion, Andromeda, when viewed as a brand-new and completely separate franchise, it stands on its own. Now it has to be one of the more generic and white bread science fiction stories I've come across in recent memory, but it passes the basic litmus test for being a usable sci-fi world I suppose. The problem, and most of the reasonable complaints surrounding this game, stem from when the Mass Effect moniker is put on the front cover.
Despite the continued instance of the devs and other people to view the game as a fresh start, or a wiping clean of the slate, you have to understand when continuing a franchise, especially one as lauded as Mass Effect, carries with it a certain pedigree, one that you just can't avoid. If you are wanting to include Krogan and Asari, or biotics and mass effect technology in your narrative then you must be prepared for the innate comparisons that are going to be drawn between what was done in the past and what is being done now. Is it fair? Probably not, but then again if BioWare really wanted to avoid any such parallels then they shouldn't have made the game set in the Mass Effect universe. Much like what 343 Industries is going through with the Halo franchise, BioWare can't expect to continue their series without the fanbase looking back. Now I am not saying that I support those individuals who unrealistically set Andromeda up next to the entirety of the previous trilogy and use that unbalanced comparison to damn the game, but I am saying that as the supposed start of a new story arc Andromeda is rather lackluster, especially when compared to the first entry into the franchise, ME 1.
Sure, the textures have more resolution, the models have more polygons, and the gameplay is more fluid in the most recent title, but when viewing the game as a Mass Effect title and comparing it to the narrative nuance in ME 1, Andromeda comes across as one of the lowest ranked mass effect games (again IMO). Believe me, I don't have a problem with rose-colored glasses here, I know that ME 1 was far from perfect, but if you look at the varied lore and narrative world-building involved in the first game and then compare it to what is in Andromeda, one can begin to see the overall loss in quality. Now I don't want to bog down the remainder of this post with every tiny little infraction as that just seems needlessly nitpicky, I may dislike Andromeda's inventory system but that doesn't make or break the game for me, however I do want to focus on three major points of departure from ME 1 that I personally feel makes Mass Effect: Andromeda the weakest title in the franchise so far. A removal completely at odds with what initially drew me into the series in the first place. They are, in order of least important to most important, the open world design, constant Citadel DLC level 'humor' permeating everything, and a total lack of any 'alien' elements.
Open world is a topic that has been done to death so I won't spend too much time on it, but I do want to point out how it bogs down the game with needless filler content. As a completionist, I endeavor to finish all optional tasks and side quests set before me before moving on to the next major story point, both as a means of further experiencing the world I am playing in, and because I'm weird like that. The problem with this is that by the time I had achieved 100% habitability on Kaldera (or the planet where you encounter the Outlaws) I was totally burned out on moving on to the next world. Which, to me, it's a sure sign of bad game design, when a player actually dreads the prospect of more maps to run around in. I felt like I was working a job rather than enjoying a game; a feeling I experienced while playing Dragon Age: Inquisition as well. I especially loathed the quests that would have you go bunny hopping from system to system, going through loading cinematic after loading cinematic for no other reason than to just run from point A on Eos, and then jump back in the Tempest and travel to Voled so I could run to point B, all so that I could scan something and listen to SAM drone on about something totally insignificant.
"Well" I often hear as a common response, "if you don't like all the running around then just ignore it and focus on the story." To which my stance on that is: Are we now actively admitting that portions of this game are so dull and mind-numbingly boring that we should just skip them? That, despite large sections of the game being nothing but useless filler content, we should just give Andromeda a pass on said content? ME 1 had it's share of pointless fetch quests too, don't get me wrong, namely the mineral deposits and the medallion search, but the difference there was that it wasn't ingrained throughout the entire game, nor did the player have to constantly wade through them on their way to story missions. Speaking of the main story areas, the side quests within each one tangentially felt appropriate to the situation at hand. Helping the colonists on Feros out by fixing their water shortage and eliminating the Geth targeting them, or moving to hunt down the last remaining insane Rachni from Peak 15 on Noveria made sense given the situation and it was all self-contained within that one major plot point. In Andromeda, my Pathfinder is stuck playing delivery boy for NPCs who's quests have virtually nothing to do with the task at hand; "Help me Pathfinder, my dog ran away and I need you to find it!"
Moving on to my next point, it may shock the general fanbase but I really didn't like the Citadel DLC. In fact, I would go so far as to say that it would have to be one of the worse (narratively speaking) pieces of additional content in the entire franchise; maybe ranked just above Andromeda, because it was only a few hours of side content and not an entire game. Sure, the endings were horrible, and narratively disconnected with what came before, but BioWare received near universal backlash over them. With the Citadel DLC BioWare looked at the content's popularity and decided that this is what they should pursue in favor of having a nuanced story. Now why did I dislike the DLC so much that I only managed a single play though of it; and even then that was a drag? Primarily because of the constant quips, one liners, and meta jokes continually spewing forth from every character I ran across. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a good laugh every now and then, but the Citadel was like that one friend at the movies who jabs you in the ribs and whispers in your ear "Did you get that reference?" or "That was funny wasn't it?" every time a joke is thrown out. It was way too much and way too forced for my liking. Despite ME 3 being a generally grim dark narrative I found myself smiling and laughing at things like Garrus' shooting contest, or Tali and Ashley's drunken rants. In the Citadel DLC though, my companions were all replaced with cheap doppelgängers who cartoonishly bumbled their way across the screen with a forced sense of 'humor'.
"How does all of this apply to Andromeda?" you might ask, well due to that content's ensuing popularity, BioWare wrongfully took (IMO) the notion that people want to see more narratives like it. Rather than having characters operate organically in what is initially setup as a serious do-or-die situation; what with things like being stranded on their own with no support, golden worlds being a bust, the primary Pathfinder dead, a hostile alien race only interested in conflict, etc. Instead everyone is cracking wise and trying to tell lame jokes like it's a sitcom. And it's not just the characters either, the underlying plot is seemingly infected with this brand of unceasing light heartedness to the point that quests like preparing for the Movie Night with the crew take on more in-game importance and require more in-game effort to achieve than it does in trying to stop the Archon and the Khett. The story can't even take its own antagonist seriously, and it's obvious that the developers and their unofficial tagline for Andromeda of "Pretty Good Banging" were too entrenched in the Citadel bible to treat the narrative with a straight face either.
Speaking of the the 'Pretty Good Banging' slogan, it was painfully obvious leading up to the game's release, and once it was out in stores, that Andromeda was completely avoiding any 'alien' elements. I mean, sure, the Mass Effect franchise has always been human centric, and showcased "humans as special little snowflakes" but ME 1 at least tried to present the universe as diverse with 'alien' aliens like the Rachni, Elcor, Hanar, the Thorian, and even the Geth to an extent. Not so with Andromeda. Despite being a game that was supposed to harken back to ME 1, and be about exploring the unknown and making discoveries we actually did very little of it. Andromeda is even more human than the Milky Way, with the new "alien" species the Angara doing the impossible and being more like us than even the Asari. Menwhile the Archon and the Khett have less personality and impact than the Collectors, and the Remnant are literally mindless robots to kill for XP and loot.
There is no investigation into trying to understand things like the Vaults, instead its all: "Wow this piece of technology can fundamentally alter the climate and biosphere of an entire planet in seconds; must be magic lolz. Let's turn this sucker on so we can get back to gathering those ingredients for our Movie Night." Aliens like the Rachni might not have been the best example of a non-human element in a science fiction story, but at least we had that variety present within the game at release. Maybe if Andromeda's writing team had more writers of the caliber of people like Chris L'Etoile we could have gotten to see something interesting and decidedly sci-fi, rather than meme heavy romance oriented humans with rubber masks on.
I often see counterpoints that Andromeda's total lack of 'alien' themes shouldn't be held against it, and that we will likely see such elements in future DLC or sequels, but my response to that line of thought is: Would you accept Andromeda if it shipped without any romance content or character customization, and with the vague promise that those features will be added in subsequent releases…probably?" As I have said, it was this alien diversity, not our human representation of differing sexual orientations, that initially drew me into this franchise. You can't expect to completely remove this part of the lore and world-building and not have me call you out on it, especially when ME 1 had both the romance content and occasional humor present alongside said elements.
TL;DR Mass Effect: Andromeda is a passable, if incredibly bland; science fiction adventure when taken on its own, but when made part of the existing franchise, it fails on several, important levels.
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alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
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Post by alanc9 on Jul 14, 2017 17:11:31 GMT
Hi Jason. I thought you said you were going to ignore me a while back? Yet here we are. this is truly the epitome of rebuttals, goddamn dude Context matters. For some of us, suikoden has burned through all of his credibility, and he just isn't taken seriously anymore. It's not a strategy I care to adopt, but I can see why people do it.
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kino
N4
The path up and down are one and the same.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: kinom001
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Nov 25, 2024 17:44:02 GMT
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kino
The path up and down are one and the same.
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kino
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
kinom001
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Post by kino on Jul 14, 2017 17:14:20 GMT
Ever since this game came out, it's been receiving a lot of flak from people,and I mean a lot. Characters are bad, story is bad, voice acting is bad, animations are bad, etc. I feel that some of these complaints are certainly valid like the facial animations, but I feel this issue has not only been beaten to death, but it's also overblown (Yongyea, you aren't helping dammit) worst facial animations would have to go to Ride to Hell Retribution imho, I didn't thing the voice acting was bad at all, at least when it came to the squadmates, characters were certainly fun, but again these were the squadmates, was the dialogue bad, yeah at times it was pretty crappy, that shooting him in the face comment Liam made being the most egregious, other times I liked it, story was good AT TIMES, I feel that the writers played it way too safe in several instances and I feel the archon was a missed opportunity like the whole sibling thing. UI sucked though, no arguments there. The dialogue tree could've had more renegade-y options, also I did feel that there were times where the dialogue I picked didn't sound like what I wanted, but I think I remember having those times in the OT. What do you guys think of these criticisms? I'm genuinely curious. The only thing I found missing that I wanted was the Tactical pause and being able to direct squadmates powers. And that's about all. None of the rest bothered me too much.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on Jul 14, 2017 17:19:48 GMT
@vortex: The only issue I have with your analysis is ME3's Citadel DLC. And even then, 'm partially in agreement. I thoroughly enjoyed the DLC personally. But I think it's a DLC that should not have been needed. ME3 was so soul-crushingly dismal that a bright, cheery DLC that largely ignored that dumpster-fire of "artistic integrity" was needed, if only to give us one last happy memory of Shepard and the companions.
MEA's problem was that they took Citadel and tried to apply it throughout the game. And while it's one thing to add some sugar to a recipe to sweeten things up, it's quite another to try eating straight from the sugar bowl. I think Mac is as clueless on why Citadel was so popular as he is on why ME3 got such backlash.
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