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Post by Cyonan on Sept 20, 2016 17:13:52 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised if Deus Ex(either HR or the original) endings influenced Mass Effect considering they're basically the exact same style. That sort of thing is actually really common among game development however, and not inherently a bad thing.
The problem comes from just using it without understanding what about it makes it work and how to adapt it to make it work for your game, or if it's a good idea to even use it at all in your game.
A "choose 1 of 3 endings" style was never something that was really going to be a good idea for a Mass Effect game in my opinion, but it should have instead been a culmination of all of our choices up to that point that was the major deciding factor in what happened.
Sort of like what The Witcher 3 did, except you have 3 full games worth of choices to pull from rather than just a small handful.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 21, 2016 19:55:36 GMT
ME3 totally ripped off the original Deus Ex's endings. It's not even debatable imo. Especially considering Casey Hudson himself cited Deus Ex as a major influence and the similarities are obvious. Your choices in both games are either side with the enemy you've been fighting all along and carry out their bidding (synthesis), become a messianic god figure who seeks to control the world by merging with a super AI or destroy it but at the cost of wiping out global communications & setting the world back decades technologically. If you don't see the initial inspiration for ME3s ending choices then you're kidding yourself. Deus Ex's endings were at least thematically consistent with the story being told. The whole game was an examination of freedom vs security. The endings also take more than pushing a button to enact (getting those endings required achieving different objectives on the map). You have different characters encouraging different agendas, rather than a ghost-child reciting your "options" And you get an epilogue that's more than just ending slides. But let's not talk about where they took those endings with Invisible War... |
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Post by guanxi on Sept 22, 2016 8:37:40 GMT
@lakus Exactly. ME3's endings were foolishly adapted from deus ex at the last minute and wedged where they didn't belong without much care or thought. They don't work thematically and tonally because they don't arise naturally from the narrative like they do in Deus Ex. The execution is so much worse because being given hobson's choices from a Deus Ex machina out of nowhere takes away your agency at the most critical juncture like some crap medieval play. It's unforgivable that Casey let it ship like this and they had the chance to do it right and they bottled it and belittled fans for rejecting an ending which is indefensible.
I was given Invisible War as part of a steam bundle years ago but I've always avoided it like the plague out of respect for the original having heard nothing but hate for it. If Eidos do eventually remake the original and Square insist on a sequel it would be interesting to see what direction they take a second attempt at a follow up and how in hindsight they would resolve the different endings given moving Deus Ex to Andromeda is not really an option for them.
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Post by bizantura on Sept 22, 2016 12:35:01 GMT
Transhumanist agenda fits the DX series it was tacked on ME3 in the end and did not fit that series at all.
Pushing a agenda seems more important these days than a fluent story line.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2016 13:12:20 GMT
i think we've had one deus-ex inspired ending too many in the mass effect series already.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 22, 2016 13:24:03 GMT
@lakus Exactly. ME3's endings were foolishly adapted from deus ex at the last minute and wedged where they didn't belong without much care or thought. They don't work thematically and tonally because they don't arise naturally from the narrative like they do in Deus Ex. The execution is so much worse because being given hobson's choices from a Deus Ex machina out of nowhere takes away your agency at the most critical juncture like some crap medieval play. It's unforgivable that Casey let it ship like this and they had the chance to do it right and they bottled it and belittled fans for rejecting an ending which is indefensible. I was given Invisible War as part of a steam bundle years ago but I've always avoided it like the plague out of respect for the original having heard nothing but hate for it. If Eidos do eventually remake the original and Square insist on a sequel it would be interesting to see what direction they take a second attempt at a follow up and how in hindsight they would resolve the different endings given moving Deus Ex to Andromeda is not really an option for them. "Hate" may be too strong a word for it. But "dumbed down" would not be. It lacked the complexity, both in story and mechanics of the original. And they took the endings and pureed them into a single canonized outcome. |
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Post by Iakus on Sept 22, 2016 14:41:52 GMT
...And they took the endings and pureed them into a single canonized outcome. They did the same with the new one as well. Not exactly. They deliberately don't address what happened after the final battle. One could easily imagine that the DXHR simply ended at that point, and no final choice made at all. Invisible War took specific pieces of all three endings and created a (canon) fourth outcome. |
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