alleyd
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Post by alleyd on Sept 18, 2016 15:16:33 GMT
I read that Deus EX:Human Revolution's ending design had some influence on the ending of ME3. After playing the most recent Deus Ex:Mankind Divided, I wonder if its ending design will have some influence on other story driven games such as ME:A. I'll try and avoid spoiling the ending of DE:MD, only will say that the game leaves many questions unanswered and plotlines that seem to go nowhere until a post game cutscene which reveals information that I feel should have been in game. I was watching these scenes with the distinct feeling that this content had been held back for DLC/Season Pass purposes. One example is a game long sidequest where I investigated what happened to Adam Jensen in the 2 year period between the ending of DE:HR and the beginning of DE:MD. There was a period of several months where Jensen has no memory of and he had some illegal augments fitted. The end cutscene reveals that the illuminattii may have gotten to Jensen and are using him as a way of getting to the hacker, Janus I feel that this approach of splitting story lines unreseolved until later DLC releases may become more common in the future for other story driven games such as ME:A. My question for fans is simple, is this acceptible use of DLC and season pass strategies
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RoboticWater
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Post by RoboticWater on Sept 18, 2016 16:47:52 GMT
No. It can't. ME:A's story is already written. If we had story-critical DLC, that would only be because EA ordered it on their volition.
Will it happen though? Maybe. You have to understand that DX:MD is published by Square Enix. These are the people that made the new Hitman episodic and plan to release the FF7 remake in 3 parts. Selling games piecemeal is sort of their MO. EA's no stranger to it–From Ashes and Trespasser come to mind recently, and we can include Battlefront in that as well (though it has no narrative), but I'm willing to give EA the benefit of the doubt with Trespasser. I think that one came down to poor narrative direction in the base game.
The bottom line is: will we get narrative-critical DLC? Possibly. Will the main game be deliberately lacking in answers to get us to buy DLC? That strikes me as unlikely.
Mind you, the first DLC release for DX:MD doesn't seem related to all the unanswered questions in the main game. IIRC, it's going to be a side story involving Prichard. That doesn't prove that it won't answer some questions, but I'd be more willing to bet that DX:MD's loose ends were pushed into a sequel.
I also doubt that DX:HR's ending affected ME3's. Unless the creative leads really liked HR's ending for some artistic reason, I don't see how anyone would think emulating it would be a good idea. It was almost universally panned. I'd be willing to bet that two pulp sci-fi RPG with convoluted narratives and relatively high concepts just coincidentally had terrible endings with abrupt choose-your-outcome buttons. With the way those two stories progressed, it was practically bound to happen.
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Post by nanotm on Sept 18, 2016 20:32:33 GMT
dxmkd doesn't so much end as it does just stop short, that plot twist you allude to was blatantly obvious from the second conversation on the video link, as was the dodgy doctor, indeed the 5 minute commentary from the AI newscaster was clearly added in as a rush job because sqeenix wanted the game out faster instead of when finished, the games so buggy half the people who bought it asked for their money back and the majority seem upset they took too long to realise it's only half finished (in terms of bugs with quests)
indeed I killed everyone the game would let me shoot in the first play through, including the bratva folks and then bam at the end the first boss is on screen explaining its not his fault since he only just took over ..... the second time I killed him and his crew and killed everyone else that wasn't in the opera house and yet come the end that first boss is still alive on the tv .....
nothing you do in your entire play through changes the ending, it doesn't matter if you kill everyone in Prague outside your HQ it wont change the ending... I know because I literally killed everyone in every map that I could shoot just to check .....
so I seriously hope that dxmkd has zero effect on mea, other than perhaps them testing it properly to make sure its not a buggy piece of shit with nice graphics with quests that randomly complete /uncompleted /refuse to trigger.....
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Post by suboof on Sept 19, 2016 3:09:42 GMT
DX:MD ending felt like it randomly ended in the middle (story wise).
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RoboticWater
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Post by RoboticWater on Sept 19, 2016 3:25:16 GMT
DX:MD ending felt like it randomly ended in the middle (story wise). That's because it essentially did. Rumor has it that DX:MD originally had one single story, but was ripped in half to make a trilogy (including the first one). Expect another Deus Ex quite soon.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 19, 2016 3:53:46 GMT
I've never played the game, but from what I've read from posts, is that Casey Hudson liked one of the deus games that may of gave him ideas for the ending of ME3. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong
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Post by Hunter on Sept 19, 2016 5:33:16 GMT
If this is the start of a trilogy I hope the ending is somewhat open ended. ME1's ending was perfect for setting up the rest of the trilogy so that's what I'm hoping for.
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Post by nanotm on Sept 19, 2016 8:05:16 GMT
If this is the start of a trilogy I hope the ending is somewhat open ended. ME1's ending was perfect for setting up the rest of the trilogy so that's what I'm hoping for. i'm hoping that they leave it to be a bigger franchise than just a trilogy though, there are a lot more clusters within Andromeda and there's no reason to limit our game exploration to so few of them, indeed it would be strange if we didn't explore the entire galaxy if for no other reason than to stealth our way around and check if we need to worry about getting wiped out, even if all we do is drop automated listening beacons in every star system that report back to control about any fleet build-ups regardless of how far away from our sector they are.... also this game if they do it right could have a huge host of mobile companion efforts (even if they are essentially the same, just with new backgrounds) given the numbers of planetoids upon which new adventures can be had but not be part of the main game(s) which stick to main bodies (moons and planets rather than asteroids....) for the big space exploration stuff... hmm actually I think selling it as a new trilogy would effectively be selling the game short, even if there is a new set of relays that work available, what they need is to fully explore each cluster before moving to the next, and that could mean a hundred games rather than just 3 (which would be fine by me, so long as it doesn't take 3 years for each episode to get released)
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ioannisdenton
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Post by ioannisdenton on Sept 19, 2016 8:23:16 GMT
I read that Deus EX:Human Revolution's ending design had some influence on the ending of ME3. After playing the most recent Deus Ex:Mankind Divided, I wonder if its ending design will have some influence on other story driven games such as ME:A. I'll try and avoid spoiling the ending of DE:MD, only will say that the game leaves many questions unanswered and plotlines that seem to go nowhere until a post game cutscene which reveals information that I feel should have been in game. I was watching these scenes with the distinct feeling that this content had been held back for DLC/Season Pass purposes. One example is a game long sidequest where I investigated what happened to Adam Jensen in the 2 year period between the ending of DE:HR and the beginning of DE:MD. There was a period of several months where Jensen has no memory of and he had some illegal augments fitted. The end cutscene reveals that the illuminattii may have gotten to Jensen and are using him as a way of getting to the hacker, Janus I feel that this approach of splitting story lines unreseolved until later DLC releases may become more common in the future for other story driven games such as ME:A. My question for fans is simple, is this acceptible use of DLC and season pass strategies Fact is Bioware games and Deus ex games (since 2000) are my favorite games. I am a sucker for deus ex. Been plkaying MankinDivided and i really love it. Have not finised it though, they are obviously making this game a trilogy hence the ending most people complain. However in human revolution the story of adam jensen could have ended, that game was complete storywise
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guanxi
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Post by guanxi on Sept 19, 2016 8:56:26 GMT
ME3 totally ripped off the original Deus Ex's endings. It's not even debatable imo. Especially considering Casey Hudson himself cited Deus Ex as a major influence and the similarities are obvious.
Your choices in both games are either side with the enemy you've been fighting all along and carry out their bidding (synthesis), become a messianic god figure who seeks to control the world by merging with a super AI or destroy it but at the cost of wiping out global communications & setting the world back decades technologically. If you don't see the initial inspiration for ME3s ending choices then you're kidding yourself.
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Post by Serza on Sept 19, 2016 13:28:29 GMT
VAKLAAAAAAV!
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Post by Hunter on Sept 19, 2016 13:41:54 GMT
i'm hoping that they leave it to be a bigger franchise than just a trilogy though, there are a lot more clusters within Andromeda and there's no reason to limit our game exploration to so few of them, indeed it would be strange if we didn't explore the entire galaxy if for no other reason than to stealth our way around and check if we need to worry about getting wiped out, even if all we do is drop automated listening beacons in every star system that report back to control about any fleet build-ups regardless of how far away from our sector they are.... also this game if they do it right could have a huge host of mobile companion efforts (even if they are essentially the same, just with new backgrounds) given the numbers of planetoids upon which new adventures can be had but not be part of the main game(s) which stick to main bodies (moons and planets rather than asteroids....) for the big space exploration stuff... hmm actually I think selling it as a new trilogy would effectively be selling the game short, even if there is a new set of relays that work available, what they need is to fully explore each cluster before moving to the next, and that could mean a hundred games rather than just 3 (which would be fine by me, so long as it doesn't take 3 years for each episode to get released) A hundred games? That's not going to happen. Just because the setting is big doesn't mean we're going to get an individual game count equal to that size. The number of games will be determined by the story they want to tell.
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Sanunes
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 19, 2016 13:43:09 GMT
Honestly I doubt Human Revolution influenced Mass Effect 3 and there has been no proof aside from random internet rumors of "You pick one of four items to end Mankind Divided and in Mass Effect 3 you pick one of three" due to the compressed amount of time to do so, I think they endings would have been even worse if they copied them since the release dates were fairly close.
As far as the criticisms towards the ending of Mankind Divided I don't think it was a bad ending and I would have been fine with it if they only improved the pacing. Other then that it is fairly close to what they did in Human Revolution minus the "pick the final cinematic" which a lot of people complained about. The way I describe the ending is you are running and then hit a brick wall as you turn a corner to get to a sudden stop. To me they close out the plot of the game which is the attack that happens after the tutorial mission it just feels like there should be one more mission to slow down the story before the final boss.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 19, 2016 13:51:33 GMT
If this is the start of a trilogy I hope the ending is somewhat open ended. ME1's ending was perfect for setting up the rest of the trilogy so that's what I'm hoping for. i'm hoping that they leave it to be a bigger franchise than just a trilogy though, there are a lot more clusters within Andromeda and there's no reason to limit our game exploration to so few of them, indeed it would be strange if we didn't explore the entire galaxy if for no other reason than to stealth our way around and check if we need to worry about getting wiped out, even if all we do is drop automated listening beacons in every star system that report back to control about any fleet build-ups regardless of how far away from our sector they are.... also this game if they do it right could have a huge host of mobile companion efforts (even if they are essentially the same, just with new backgrounds) given the numbers of planetoids upon which new adventures can be had but not be part of the main game(s) which stick to main bodies (moons and planets rather than asteroids....) for the big space exploration stuff... hmm actually I think selling it as a new trilogy would effectively be selling the game short, even if there is a new set of relays that work available, what they need is to fully explore each cluster before moving to the next, and that could mean a hundred games rather than just 3 (which would be fine by me, so long as it doesn't take 3 years for each episode to get released) I can easily see them continuing the story in Andromeda, but the games won't be designed to incorporate major choices because of the technical limitations in game development and vocal players were not satisfied with how choice consequences were handled in the sequels.
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Post by nanotm on Sept 19, 2016 14:17:59 GMT
Honestly I doubt Human Revolution influenced Mass Effect 3 and there has been no proof aside from random internet rumors of "You pick one of four items to end Mankind Divided and in Mass Effect 3 you pick one of three" due to the compressed amount of time to do so, I think they endings would have been even worse if they copied them since the release dates were fairly close. As far as the criticisms towards the ending of Mankind Divided I don't think it was a bad ending and I would have been fine with it if they only improved the pacing. Other then that it is fairly close to what they did in Human Revolution minus the "pick the final cinematic" which a lot of people complained about. The way I describe the ending is you are running and then hit a brick wall as you turn a corner to get to a sudden stop. To me they close out the plot of the game which is the attack that happens after the tutorial mission it just feels like there should be one more mission to slow down the story before the final boss. In all honesty It felt like it was exactly the same as the missing link just without the polish except you were charged for a full game and only got a buggy DLC for the money coupled with some ported monstrosity of an early 2006 iPhone app multiplayer, and I think that's what rubbed most people up the wrong way, the bugs you can almost forgive if you got the full game..... so squeex screwed the pooch by chopping out 2/3rd of the game and rushing it out the door as far as i'm concerned
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Innocent Bystander
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wsdswsaswwasdawwI can't move!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by Innocent Bystander on Sept 19, 2016 14:23:56 GMT
I have no problem whatsoever with DX:MD's ending or the number of unanswered questions. Both DX:HR and DX:MD are prequels to Deus Ex, so I'd bet money that actually playing that would answer some of those. Considering that you're trying to foil illuminati's plans you're bound to have a lot of your questions unanswered. In ME:A you'll be exploring brand new galaxy, so it's quite possible that something similar might happen there, more so if ME:A is planned as first game in trilogy or something. Tars is the man, he'll set you up.
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Post by Serza on Sept 19, 2016 14:39:47 GMT
Was referring to Vaclav Koller, the aug tecchie who forgot how to pronounce his name.
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RoboticWater
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Post by RoboticWater on Sept 19, 2016 14:58:59 GMT
I have no problem whatsoever with DX:MD's ending or the number of unanswered questions. Both DX:HR and DX:MD are prequels to Deus Ex, so I'd bet money that actually playing that would answer some of those. Considering that you're trying to foil illuminati's plans you're bound to have a lot of your questions unanswered. Not really. The new Deus Ex games have done a good job distancing themselves from the original. Sure, you find out what happens to a character or two and the general trajectory that the world went in, but not a lot of the specific questions about HR's characters or plot points. Honestly, playing the original brings up more questions than it answers, like how the socio-political climate of DX:HR/MD could possibly lead to the setting of Deus Ex or how we have rocket VTOLs and the like in 2027, but regular helicopters in 2052. It's a bit nit-picky, but the takeaway here is that these games are connected quite loosely. If you watch the Ross's Game Dungeon for each game ( Original, DX:HR) you'll get the picture.
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Post by guanxi on Sept 19, 2016 22:04:48 GMT
Just finished DX:MD on normal. Will take a break for now before I attempt a Foxiest of the Hounds, Pacifist, I Never Wanted this difficulty play-through but I can't see what all the fuss is about regarding the game's length, the story or the ending. It's a good 30 hours with a lot of very substantial side quests, the story was decent and pretty self-contained and the multiple endings were fitting and climactic for a middle-act prequel/sequel. The ending was certainly an improvement on DX:HR for me imo - felt more organic than the 'ending-tron' and it even acknowledged the outcomes of previous choices you made in side-quests quite nicely.
I wouldn't say HR & MD are entirely disconnected from the original Deus Ex. So far we've seen the origins of UNATCO, the pre-cursor to Icarus, the rise of Bob Page et al, etc. It's setting the stage/progressing the timeline very nicely for a remake of the original after Adam's story is concluded (I hope).
The end credit scene hinting at the council of five's plans for Adam was interesting foreshadowing for the next game which is fine as far as optional bonus content goes. The omission of the details regarding his recuperation/re-augmentation did hurt the beginning somewhat but if the writers feel it's too early to divulge this information at this point without spoiling future plot points then who are we to disagree?
A sequel was always going to happen: I didn't feel like they intentionally cut/withheld content or purposely changed the game/story significantly to accommodate a sequel any more than any other game already does. The DLC so far is pretty underwhelming - it feels like rejected content like the Missing Link dlc from DX:HR. Overall, It didn't quite hit the same story highs as Human Revolution as the supporting characters were weaker but the gameplay and level design were better and if they can marry the two together in the next one then the best is yet to come. 8/10.
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Sept 20, 2016 3:58:57 GMT
So I got to ask....how?
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Post by The Biotic Trebuchet on Sept 20, 2016 4:04:30 GMT
Nyet, it will not, NOW move on!
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Post by nanotm on Sept 20, 2016 8:53:04 GMT
Just finished DX:MD on normal. Will take a break for now before I attempt a Foxiest of the Hounds, Pacifist, I Never Wanted this difficulty play-through but I can't see what all the fuss is about regarding the game's length, the story or the ending. It's a good 30 hours with a lot of very substantial side quests, the story was decent and pretty self-contained and the multiple endings were fitting and climactic for a middle-act prequel/sequel. The ending was certainly an improvement on DX:HR for me imo - felt more organic than the 'ending-tron' and it even acknowledged the outcomes of previous choices you made in side-quests quite nicely. I wouldn't say HR & MD are entirely disconnected from the original Deus Ex. So far we've seen the origins of UNATCO, the pre-cursor to Icarus, the rise of Bob Page et al, etc. It's setting the stage/progressing the timeline very nicely for a remake of the original after Adam's story is concluded (I hope). The end credit scene hinting at the council of five's plans for Adam was interesting foreshadowing for the next game which is fine as far as optional bonus content goes. The omission of the details regarding his recuperation/re-augmentation did hurt the beginning somewhat but if the writers feel it's too early to divulge this information at this point without spoiling future plot points then who are we to disagree? A sequel was always going to happen: I didn't feel like they intentionally cut/withheld content or purposely changed the game/story significantly to accommodate a sequel any more than any other game already does. The DLC so far is pretty underwhelming - it feels like rejected content like the Missing Link dlc from DX:HR. Overall, It didn't quite hit the same story highs as Human Revolution as the supporting characters were weaker but the gameplay and level design were better and if they can marry the two together in the next one then the best is yet to come. 8/10. playing through the game on story mode the side quests after the first Prague zone didn't trigger once, so for me the game was bugged, i reinstalled it after a bunch of updates and still same problem of bugged out crap, oh and evne dragging my feet i struggled to take more than 18 hours to complete the game, even when i broke into /explored everything, another problem i found was the half the locations have no r eason for being in the game, theres literally no reason to break into the vault under the car park other than by accident because nothing in the game requires you to access there... when i followed the game only going doing each quest as it arrived nothing showed up and the game was over in under 5 hours...... hell i didnt even know about the penguin in golem other than people talking about getting some achievement for it, but despite watching a video i still couldn't trigger the quest to find it ...
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Post by guanxi on Sept 20, 2016 11:36:42 GMT
playing through the game on story mode the side quests after the first Prague zone didn't trigger once, so for me the game was bugged, i reinstalled it after a bunch of updates and still same problem of bugged out crap, oh and evne dragging my feet i struggled to take more than 18 hours to complete the game, even when i broke into /explored everything, another problem i found was the half the locations have no r eason for being in the game, theres literally no reason to break into the vault under the car park other than by accident because nothing in the game requires you to access there... when i followed the game only going doing each quest as it arrived nothing showed up and the game was over in under 5 hours...... hell i didnt even know about the penguin in golem other than people talking about getting some achievement for it, but despite watching a video i still couldn't trigger the quest to find it ... Not experienced any questing bugs so far but I remembered back to what a pain side-quests were in DX:HR with the different stages locking you out of side-quests and XP if you miss them at the time so I cheated a bit and read up on the side-quests first so I didn't miss anything. Not ideal but it works. I chose the alternate Bomb-maker quest instead of The Palisade Bank Vault mission which I have yet to do so there are still a few quests and alternate paths I haven't tried yet. Play time is highly relative and variable depending on your play style. If you cloak all the time and avoid conflict or go guns blazing I reckon you could do a speed run of the main quest line in that time if you skip dialogue but it wouldn't be very fun. I unlocked remote hacking and maxed inventory space early and hacked and collected pretty much everything I could find for XP so that padded my play time out a bit more than it would otherwise. Looting and trading takes time but it's important for gaining extra Praxis kits at merchants. I imagine attempting an a 'I Never Asked for This' play-through without triggering alarms and going for the pacifist achievement my play-time will be closer to 50-60 hrs for me with a lot of quick-saving induced frustration which is respectable bang for buck these days so I think you can get your money's worth and there's plenty of replay value to be had in terms of open-ended mission design which takes advantage of the wide array of gameplay customization options. I find the experience you get with these games depends on your frame of mind at the time which is a large part of what makes them so unique and the experience so personal. Even more so than most typical RPGs.
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Post by degrees on Sept 20, 2016 12:03:49 GMT
ME3 totally ripped off the original Deus Ex's endings. It's not even debatable imo. Especially considering Casey Hudson himself cited Deus Ex as a major influence and the similarities are obvious. Your choices in both games are either side with the enemy you've been fighting all along and carry out their bidding (synthesis), become a messianic god figure who seeks to control the world by merging with a super AI or destroy it but at the cost of wiping out global communications & setting the world back decades technologically. If you don't see the initial inspiration for ME3s ending choices then you're kidding yourself. I heard about this but never played the game. I'm way over the ending but this doesn't help lol.
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https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 20, 2016 12:04:11 GMT
<<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>
My understanding is that the ending is a win/fail proposition. We are either successful in colonising the cluster or we are not. The massive space battle (mentioned in the leak) confirms this binary result.
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