Evil
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Post by Evil on Aug 2, 2016 22:31:13 GMT
Since this thread will be lost when BSN vanishes into the ether I'm copying the Info from it here just in case anyone has need of it.
Anyway, some weapon mods do literally nothing when put on certain weapons other than waste the slot and maybe make the gun look better, while others do so little as to be effectively worthless.
Penetration mods are totally useless on these guns:
Adas Anti-Synthetic Rifle. M-37 Falcon. Striker Assault Rifle. Acolyte. Scorpion. Geth Plasma Shotgun. Graal Spike Thrower. Venom Shotgun. Kishock Harpoon Gun. Krysae Sniper Rifle.
The sniper Rifle Spare Thermal Clip mod is useless on the Collector Sniper Rifle.
The SMG Heat Sink mod is useless on the Collector SMG.
Shotgun Smart Choke is useless on the Venom Shotgun and the N7 Crusader, and of very little use on the Reegar Carbine (it only improves the pellet spread, not the range) and the Geth Plasma Shotgun (it only benefits uncharged shots).
Since the Particle Rifle has zero recoil it gains nothing from Assault Rifle Stability Damper. The Javelin already has an x-ray scope, so it gains nothing from scope upgrades. The Pistol Cranial Trauma System does absolutely nothing for the Acolyte and the Scorpion.
Thanks to Cato for correcting my various errors in the original thread, and Capn223 for correcting me now.
If I've left in any errors or omissions please point them out guys.
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Post by Voluptuous Volus on Aug 2, 2016 22:39:58 GMT
So they can get headshots? Waaaaat? 8-|
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Evil
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Post by Evil on Aug 2, 2016 22:54:52 GMT
So they can get headshots? Waaaaat? 8-| Yeah, that was my reaction when I was told too. It's a case of the Pistol Cranial Trauma System being 99% useless on those guns rather than 100% useless TBH.
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Post by capn233 on Aug 2, 2016 22:55:10 GMT
So they can get headshots? Waaaaat? 8-| No they can't score headshots.
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Post by Voluptuous Volus on Aug 2, 2016 23:00:55 GMT
So they can get headshots? Waaaaat? 8-| No they can't score headshots. But...but..but he said they do apply damage to bosses if they hit their head : So they do get headshots then. Or is he simply wrong? Cos I always though that they don't.
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Evil
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Post by Evil on Aug 2, 2016 23:09:03 GMT
You don't get a popped skull from Acolyte or scorpion shots to the head, that's for damn sure.
As for the impact damage getting boosted, a % boost to almost nothing is still almost nothing so I could never work out for sure if MGW7 was right about that from playing with it on Xbox.
It's either 99% useless or 100% useless and I can't be sure which, so I went with 99% to be safe.
We might need Cyonan or one of the other numbers guys to clarify if it's actually 99% or 100% so I can edit the OP if needed.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Aug 2, 2016 23:11:44 GMT
They can hit the head, and they can kill the enemy by hitting the head, but you will not score a headshot and the kill will be attributed as a body kill. No exploding head, no headshot medal.
The head is a special hitbox, but it is a standard hitbox. It can be hit by non headshot weapons and still be damaged by them. It is maths.
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Post by capn233 on Aug 2, 2016 23:30:50 GMT
You don't get a popped skull from Acolyte or scorpion shots to the head, that's for damn sure. As for the impact damage getting boosted, a % boost to almost nothing is still almost nothing so I could never work out for sure if MGW7 was right about that from playing with it on Xbox. It's either 99% useless or 100% useless and I can't be sure which, so I went with 99% to be safe. We might need Cyonan or one of the other numbers guys to clarify if it's actually 99% or 100% so I can edit the OP if needed. I don't know about percent boosts to nothing. Cranial Trauma adds into the headshot / debuff section of the formula in the case of a headshot. So with a normal weapon that section ends up looking like: 2.5*(1+0.4) If there are no other debuffs. I don't know why it would add there for shots to head on a weapon that can't get headshots. I don't know of anyone that claimed it did.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2016 23:36:43 GMT
I need to print this out cuz i have no fucking clue and never remember this stuff haha. Imma scurb
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Evil
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Post by Evil on Aug 2, 2016 23:38:23 GMT
I don't know about percent boosts to nothing. Cranial Trauma adds into the headshot / debuff section of the formula in the case of a headshot. So with a normal weapon that section ends up looking like: 2.5*(1+0.4) If there are no other debuffs. I don't know why it would add there for shots to head on a weapon that can't get headshots. I don't know of anyone that claimed it did. Hmm, I think you're right. :-S I was going by the post (from the original thread) here when I mentioned it boosting the impact. Perhaps I should have disregarded it. I need to print this out cuz i have no fucking clue and never remember this stuff haha. Imma scurb Better wait until we've had a chance to fix the errors caused by my thread making scrubbyness before you hit print.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2016 23:45:39 GMT
Thank you for making this!!! Ive bookmarked it
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Post by capn233 on Aug 3, 2016 0:26:32 GMT
I don't know about percent boosts to nothing. Cranial Trauma adds into the headshot / debuff section of the formula in the case of a headshot. So with a normal weapon that section ends up looking like: 2.5*(1+0.4) If there are no other debuffs. I don't know why it would add there for shots to head on a weapon that can't get headshots. I don't know of anyone that claimed it did. Hmm, I think you're right. :-S I was going by the post (from the original thread) here when I mentioned it boosting the impact. Perhaps I should have disregarded it. Well there are various issues in there. Scorpion doesn't do any impact damage at all, just has hit reaction. Ammo damage is applied, but ammo damage never benefits from any headshot bonus, it is always the same regardless of headshot or bodyshot for each weapon.
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Evil
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Post by Evil on Aug 3, 2016 0:33:31 GMT
Well there are various issues in there. Scorpion doesn't do any impact damage at all, just has hit reaction. Ammo damage is applied, but ammo damage never benefits from any headshot bonus, it is always the same regardless of headshot or bodyshot and weapon. Welp, looks like I need to edit the OP again to remove the last references to impact damage. ;-| Thanks for setting the record straight.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 3:09:29 GMT
I need to print this out cuz i have no fucking clue and never remember this stuff haha. Imma scurb I'm in the same boat but I blame a big bag o weed. *** Also. Useful topic is useful.
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Post by Mgamerz on Aug 3, 2016 6:23:37 GMT
You don't get a popped skull from Acolyte or scorpion shots to the head, that's for damn sure. As for the impact damage getting boosted, a % boost to almost nothing is still almost nothing so I could never work out for sure if MGW7 was right about that from playing with it on Xbox. It's either 99% useless or 100% useless and I can't be sure which, so I went with 99% to be safe. We might need Cyonan or one of the other numbers guys to clarify if it's actually 99% or 100% so I can edit the OP if needed. Not all guns can gib, but that doesn't mean they arent headshots.
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Post by BountyhunterGER on Aug 3, 2016 7:18:30 GMT
Thank you for the list. (I still find it funny when I see someone using completely useless weapon mods on his weapons though)
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Post by GruntKitterhand on Aug 3, 2016 12:55:51 GMT
Nice work, handy information.
I might add anecdotally that it's not just the Collector SMG which doesn't benefit from the Heat Sink - unless you're hosting it's erratic at best on pretty much any SMG.
It's a small point, and moving on from the specific nature of the thread, but I guess it might be relevant to point out that the Adas doesn't have headshot capability either, so if you're low on AR amps, the Targeting/Vulnerability VI is pointless, and using it (EDIT: The Adas, not the VI) on Turians is in some ways counter-intuitive as they lose their headshot bonus. Not that it stops them wrecking things with it, of course.
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Post by Pounce de León on Aug 3, 2016 13:13:23 GMT
I've stopped using heat sink altogether. There is some kind of issue that can result in the gun initiating the reload and not completing the reload properly, potentially triggering more reloads in unexpected situations.
Not really scientifically, but it screwed Asari Vanguard gameplay for me royally. I've never missed heat sinks since I let them go.
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Post by LemurFromTheId on Aug 3, 2016 13:13:39 GMT
Shotgun Smart Choke is useless on the Venom Shotgun and the N7 Crusader, and of very little use on the Reegar Carbine (it only improves the pellet spread, not the range) and the Geth Plasma Shotgun (it only benefits uncharged shots). This is not true. Smart choke makes them look cool.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Aug 3, 2016 13:43:54 GMT
the Targeting/Vulnerability VI is pointless, and using it on Turians is in some ways counter-intuitive as they lose their headshot bonus. Not that it stops them wrecking things with it, of course. Wait... What? Targeting/Vulnerability override innate passives? I did not know this... Are you sure? I had been under the impression that the bonuses were additive. Hrm.
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Post by GruntKitterhand on Aug 3, 2016 14:34:59 GMT
the Targeting/Vulnerability VI is pointless, and using it on Turians is in some ways counter-intuitive as they lose their headshot bonus. Not that it stops them wrecking things with it, of course. Wait... What? Targeting/Vulnerability override innate passives? I did not know this... Are you sure? I had been under the impression that the bonuses were additive. Hrm. I'm not sure we're looking at it the same way. I wouldn't describe the VI as overriding the 30% Turian headshot passives, but with the Adas there appears to me to be no way to actually score headshots, so 30% of nothing is still nothing, and the same applies to the VI bonus. I am happy to be corrected though.
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Post by capn233 on Aug 3, 2016 14:59:40 GMT
Adas doesn't get headshots either.
I don't know what you guys are talking about with Targeting VI. It adds to the same place as passive headshot bonuses (including that on Turians). That is in the "standard additive" damage bonus place where most bonuses add. It is just that Targeting VI (and Headshot Passives) only add when you get a HS.
Targeting VI does work for headshots on bosses as well, but since it is relatively weak, and only 5% higher than a rail amp, you are usually better off with the latter. It is somewhat situationally useful (carrying two weapons, max HS damage Eagle).
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Post by GruntKitterhand on Aug 3, 2016 15:07:56 GMT
Adas doesn't get headshots either. I don't know what you guys are talking about with Targeting VI. It adds to the same place as passive headshot bonuses (including that on Turians). That is in the "standard additive" damage bonus place where most bonuses add. It is just that Targeting VI (and Headshot Passives) only add when you get a HS. Targeting VI does work for headshots on bosses as well, but since it is relatively weak, and only 5% higher than a rail amp, you are usually better off with the latter. It is somewhat situationally useful (carrying two weapons, max HS damage Eagle). I don't know why you don't get what we're talking about! The Adas can't benefit from headshot-boosting builds or gear because it doesn't register headshots. Is that ok?
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Post by capn233 on Aug 3, 2016 15:19:49 GMT
Ah the it in the earlier post looked like the antecedent was Targeting VI.
I don't like the Adas on anybody really, and I suppose it doesn't make sense on Turians either.
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Post by GruntKitterhand on Aug 3, 2016 15:39:11 GMT
Ah the it in the earlier post looked like the antecedent was Targeting VI. I don't like the Adas on anybody really, and I suppose it doesn't make sense on Turians either. Yeah, I added a little edit just to clarify that wasn't what I intended. Sorry for any confusion to you or Qui-Gon. I don't like the gun myself, primarily because of the sound. If I do use it, chances are it'll be on a RoF-boosting TSol or rarely the Quarksman - both of whom will invariably be specced for headshot damage. I suppose that if the Adas did actually register headshots it would be downright game-breaking in either of their hands. Sorry for the diversion, but it is an error in loadout I witness from time to time so I thought it was worth mentioning.
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