kelarqshah
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Post by kelarqshah on Jul 19, 2017 16:49:26 GMT
So, I wondered about this on my first playthrough and still haven't noticed any reference to it, so apologies if this is a stupid question! So, the Angara say that Voeld used to be tropical. After we fix the vault on Voeld the temperature begins to increase. So, now that the temperature is increasing, are we going to see devastating effects of global warming? Angara settlements could be buried by collapsing ice and rock, or fall into the oceans below. Eventually there'll be avalanches and flash-floods as glacial dams break. Don't get me wrong, I think it'd be spectacular to get a front row seat in a sequel...I just think this one might've been a bit of an own goal
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2017 17:30:11 GMT
I also think this might be an interesting story line for a sequel game. The impacts of Ryder's resetting of the vault resulting in the "sinking" of the Angaran communities that are, as we know, built right over the ice of a huge sea (Hjara, Techix and Ja Niik) could really strain relations between the Angara and the Initiative... not to mention some of the other things that may have already put some strain on their alliance. There are definite parallels to be drawn here with the entire "global warming" issue here on Earth.
We also have no idea what the impacts of warming might be on the Yevara and have only been given a glimpse into the cultural importance that species has to the Angara... parallels to the plight of the Polar Bear, I wonder?
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Post by SwobyJ on Jul 19, 2017 19:13:32 GMT
The vaults will regulate it all.
However, that doesn't stop some problems from happening - related to Voeld's thawing, Vault workings, political shifts, and so on.
But no, there won't be some global disaster, in itself. It will be decades to centuries (?) of gradual changes that they can largely prepare for and adjust to.
There may be a single paradise state all the vault worlds are to attune to, but I can imagine the residents finding affinity for the (now softened) climate and trying to keep it roughly similar. Frontier plains of Eos, Nordic chill of Voeld.. fragments of Earth in some respects.
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Post by SwobyJ on Jul 20, 2017 0:06:49 GMT
The vaults will regulate it all. However, that doesn't stop some problems from happening - related to Voeld's thawing, Vault workings, political shifts, and so on. But no, there won't be some global disaster, in itself. It will be decades to centuries (?) of gradual changes that they can largely prepare for and adjust to. There may be a single paradise state all the vault worlds are to attune to, but I can imagine the residents finding affinity for the (now softened) climate and trying to keep it roughly similar. Frontier plains of Eos, Nordic chill of Voeld.. fragments of Earth in some respects. I remember on Havarl we learned that we are only on the jungle side of it, but the other side had Kett and less trees... would love to explore all of the planets and not just sections. Maybe other parts of Voled had a different reaction? There's a mix of environs and I think we're missing at least 1-2 Angaran worlds.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jul 20, 2017 0:49:26 GMT
Meh, I just thought it was annoying that I still get a level 1 cold hazard--even though I reset the vault.😑It just seemed like wasted hours for nothing.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2017 1:05:07 GMT
Meh, I just thought it was annoying that I still get a level 1 cold hazard--even though I reset the vault.😑It just seemed like wasted hours for nothing. I think there is a bug with the toggle for that particular hazard. What I got was: 1) Upon landing and then driving down to the bottom, my first fight on the lake was an accelerated Level 2 Hazard... that is, I couldn't finish the fight without running out of life support and there is no heat lamp at that location. 2) I did manage to just finish the fight and fast travel back to the top before dying, so I drove down again (but, of course, lost any "remains" and drove onward toward Hjara and encountered a second group of Kett. I fought them while still suffering from the accelerated hazard, but managed to fight my way to the heat lamp at that loccation to restore my life support bar. After doing that, I never had another life support bar reappear. Because I couldn't believe it, I even walked from Hjara to Techix without any hazard. The only place I had a hazard bar was at outside the main resistance base; and it was Level 2... 3) Right up until I reset the vault... then suddenly all the Level 1 hazards that should have been there reappeared... So, resetting the vault made the world play as though it was colder than it had been before I reset the vault (i.e. a reverse of the toggle, I think).
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kelarqshah
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Post by kelarqshah on Jul 20, 2017 13:05:49 GMT
The vaults will regulate it all. However, that doesn't stop some problems from happening - related to Voeld's thawing, Vault workings, political shifts, and so on. But no, there won't be some global disaster, in itself. It will be decades to centuries (?) of gradual changes that they can largely prepare for and adjust to. There may be a single paradise state all the vault worlds are to attune to, but I can imagine the residents finding affinity for the (now softened) climate and trying to keep it roughly similar. Frontier plains of Eos, Nordic chill of Voeld.. fragments of Earth in some respects. The initial temperature change is quite sudden though. Since 1880 we've only had a global temperature change of about 0.8 degrees Celsius, and we're already seeing the effects of that. I get that the vault can affect a huge number of variables, I just wonder if any amount of fine tuning will prevent some kind of natural disaster somewhere. Also I wonder whether the vaults were built to subtly terraform over a long period of time, or whether the Jaardan used them to radically alter planets to make them habitable for the Angara as soon as possible, before they'd seeded them with Angaran populations? The ending cutscene suggests that the vault on Eos starts making rather radical changes as soon as it reconnects with Meridian, which could destroy any ecology that managed to survive or even adapt to the high radiation levels.
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Post by SwobyJ on Jul 20, 2017 21:34:05 GMT
The vaults will regulate it all. However, that doesn't stop some problems from happening - related to Voeld's thawing, Vault workings, political shifts, and so on. But no, there won't be some global disaster, in itself. It will be decades to centuries (?) of gradual changes that they can largely prepare for and adjust to. There may be a single paradise state all the vault worlds are to attune to, but I can imagine the residents finding affinity for the (now softened) climate and trying to keep it roughly similar. Frontier plains of Eos, Nordic chill of Voeld.. fragments of Earth in some respects. The initial temperature change is quite sudden though. Since 1880 we've only had a global temperature change of about 0.8 degrees Celsius, and we're already seeing the effects of that. I get that the vault can affect a huge number of variables, I just wonder if any amount of fine tuning will prevent some kind of natural disaster somewhere. Also I wonder whether the vaults were built to subtly terraform over a long period of time, or whether the Jaardan used them to radically alter planets to make them habitable for the Angara as soon as possible, before they'd seeded them with Angaran populations? The ending cutscene suggests that the vault on Eos starts making rather radical changes as soon as it reconnects with Meridian, which could destroy any ecology that managed to survive or even adapt to the high radiation levels. Planet Magic
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Post by haolyn on Jul 21, 2017 10:20:03 GMT
Indeed it could pose a problem for the existing communities but I think the Angara would be more than happy with relocating and re-adjusting if it means Voeld would be a more habitable world. The change isn't immediate so they have time to re-adjust, especially with Initiative help. Don't forget we have an outpost there too, anything bad for the Angara is also bad for us.
Global warming is a destabilizing phenomenon for the Earth climate, whereas Voeld being an ice cube is already destabilized so you're essentially "fixing it". They're not really comparable.
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Post by Sifr on Jul 21, 2017 13:23:03 GMT
Global warming is a destabilizing phenomenon for the Earth climate, whereas Voeld being an ice cube is already destabilized so you're essentially "fixing it". They're not really comparable. Of course, there's a case to be made that (some of) the Vaults aren't actually malfunctioning, but rather the planets are simply returning to their original states? Could be that once the terraforming process was complete, the environment was deemed stable enough that the system didn't need to be kept constantly on. Even for the Remnant and their insane level of tech, that system would have to be extremely power-intensive to terraforming in the short amount of time we see it capable of. Should planetary conditions and habitability levels dip below acceptable standards, the idea was that the Remnant could always enter the Vault and switch the system back on again. Depending on the level of terraforming and/or rate of decline, routine maintenance might not have been required for thousands of years. The Remnant might not have anticipated not being around anymore, so never bothered to install an automatic system to do this for them. After all, if they weren't around anymore, then why bother to maintain those "empty" worlds? That's why planetary conditions were slowly deteriorating across Heleus until Ryder showed up, because it required a manual start-up which the bots weren't programmed to do. (Apologies for the needlessly pedantic nitpicking and tin-foiling there, I actually agree with your point entirely)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 13:28:55 GMT
Indeed it could pose a problem for the existing communities but I think the Angara would be more than happy with relocating and re-adjusting if it means Voeld would be a more habitable world. The change isn't immediate so they have time to re-adjust, especially with Initiative help. Don't forget we have an outpost there too, anything bad for the Angara is also bad for us. Global warming is a destabilizing phenomenon for the Earth climate, whereas Voeld being an ice cube is already destabilized so you're essentially "fixing it". They're not really comparable. We don't really know though what direction Bioware may plan to take this sort of story arc... there's a lot of different things they may want to use to create dilemma situations for the PC (be it Ryder in a direcct sequel) or another PC (in a sequel that takes place several years after ME:A1). The angara lookouts did tell Ryder that the angara had adapted to the climate on Veold before Ryder ever has a chance to reset the vault. The existing angara communities appear to be built largely right on the sea ice; whereas the Initiative outpost is clearly built on higher ground. Bioware also introduced ideas about the conservation of the yevara being important to the angara. I'm actually seeing a lot of potential parallels between the angara on Voeld and the Innu in Canada. IMO, climate change - whether natural or induced by human activities - is, by definition, a destabilizing element. It is a "change" that will invariably require further changes to adapt to it. Those adaptations cause further changes. Perhaps the vaults were not actually malfunctioning, but were shut down because the terraforming that was being done was leading to even worse destabilization of the cluster. We really don't know what plans Bioware has for this... but it will be, I think, an interesting ride... if indeed they intend to go forward with this story arc at all.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 13:30:03 GMT
Global warming is a destabilizing phenomenon for the Earth climate, whereas Voeld being an ice cube is already destabilized so you're essentially "fixing it". They're not really comparable. Of course, there's a case to be made that (some of) the Vaults aren't actually malfunctioning, but rather the planets are simply returning to their original states? Could be that once the terraforming process was complete, the environment was deemed stable enough that the system didn't need to be kept constantly on. Even for the Remnant and their insane level of tech, that system would have to be extremely power-intensive to terraforming in the short amount of time we see it capable of. Should planetary conditions and habitability levels dip below acceptable standards, the idea was that the Remnant could always enter the Vault and switch the system back on again. Depending on the level of terraforming and/or rate of decline, routine maintenance might not have been required for thousands of years. The Remnant might not have anticipated not being around anymore, so never bothered to install an automatic system to do this for them. After all, if they weren't around anymore, then why bother to maintain those "empty" worlds? That's why planetary conditions were slowly deteriorating across Heleus until Ryder showed up, because it required a manual start-up which the bots weren't programmed to do. (Apologies for the needlessly pedantic nitpicking and tin-foiling there, I actually agree with your point entirely) Also an interesting thought.
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Post by haolyn on Jul 21, 2017 14:06:35 GMT
Global warming is a destabilizing phenomenon for the Earth climate, whereas Voeld being an ice cube is already destabilized so you're essentially "fixing it". They're not really comparable. Of course, there's a case to be made that (some of) the Vaults aren't actually malfunctioning, but rather the planets are simply returning to their original states? Could be that once the terraforming process was complete, the environment was deemed stable enough that the system didn't need to be kept constantly on. Even for the Remnant and their insane level of tech, that system would have to be extremely power-intensive to terraforming in the short amount of time we see it capable of. Should planetary conditions and habitability levels dip below acceptable standards, the idea was that the Remnant could always enter the Vault and switch the system back on again. Depending on the level of terraforming and/or rate of decline, routine maintenance might not have been required for thousands of years. The Remnant might not have anticipated not being around anymore, so never bothered to install an automatic system to do this for them. After all, if they weren't around anymore, then why bother to maintain those "empty" worlds? That's why planetary conditions were slowly deteriorating across Heleus until Ryder showed up, because it required a manual start-up which the bots weren't programmed to do. (Apologies for the needlessly pedantic nitpicking and tin-foiling there, I actually agree with your point entirely) Actually I don't think that's the case. Maintaining an entire ecosystem is extremely difficult, one small thing out of balance could have devastating and often unpredictable consequences. Maybe in the case of temperature fluctuations it can be manageable, but on Eos you've got radiation, on Hab 7 lightning storms and on Havarl genetic mutation of plant and animal life. They were terraforming these planets for the Angara to live there which required a stable ecosystem, not one that would be in continuous decline. I don't think they ever planned for the vaults to be shut down. It's likely however that we are indeed seeing planets return to their pre-terraformed state.
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Post by bshep on Jul 22, 2017 0:06:41 GMT
So, I wondered about this on my first playthrough and still haven't noticed any reference to it, so apologies if this is a stupid question! So, the Angara say that Voeld used to be tropical. After we fix the vault on Voeld the temperature begins to increase. So, now that the temperature is increasing, are we going to see devastating effects of global warming? Angara settlements could be buried by collapsing ice and rock, or fall into the oceans below. Eventually there'll be avalanches and flash-floods as glacial dams break. Don't get me wrong, I think it'd be spectacular to get a front row seat in a sequel...I just think this one might've been a bit of an own goal I don't think so. The vault was trying to stabilize the planets mean temperature because the world got "kicked out" of its original orbit because of gravitational anomalies caused by the scourge to a much farther orbit from its star. I would guess Voeld will still be a snowball but only with a bit higher temperatures.
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Post by Psychevore on Jul 22, 2017 11:09:36 GMT
Global warming is a destabilizing phenomenon for the Earth climate, whereas Voeld being an ice cube is already destabilized so you're essentially "fixing it". They're not really comparable. Of course, there's a case to be made that (some of) the Vaults aren't actually malfunctioning, but rather the planets are simply returning to their original states? Could be that once the terraforming process was complete, the environment was deemed stable enough that the system didn't need to be kept constantly on. Even for the Remnant and their insane level of tech, that system would have to be extremely power-intensive to terraforming in the short amount of time we see it capable of. Should planetary conditions and habitability levels dip below acceptable standards, the idea was that the Remnant could always enter the Vault and switch the system back on again. Depending on the level of terraforming and/or rate of decline, routine maintenance might not have been required for thousands of years. The Remnant might not have anticipated not being around anymore, so never bothered to install an automatic system to do this for them. After all, if they weren't around anymore, then why bother to maintain those "empty" worlds? That's why planetary conditions were slowly deteriorating across Heleus until Ryder showed up, because it required a manual start-up which the bots weren't programmed to do. (Apologies for the needlessly pedantic nitpicking and tin-foiling there, I actually agree with your point entirely) Personally, I think the Vaults fix worlds back to their original state. But that all really depends on what the Jardaan are and what they did I think they are synthetics that emptied the cluster (or even galaxy) of all organic life, destroying planets and their environments in the process, grew a conscious, and tried to fix their mistake.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2017 13:29:20 GMT
Of course, there's a case to be made that (some of) the Vaults aren't actually malfunctioning, but rather the planets are simply returning to their original states? Could be that once the terraforming process was complete, the environment was deemed stable enough that the system didn't need to be kept constantly on. Even for the Remnant and their insane level of tech, that system would have to be extremely power-intensive to terraforming in the short amount of time we see it capable of. Should planetary conditions and habitability levels dip below acceptable standards, the idea was that the Remnant could always enter the Vault and switch the system back on again. Depending on the level of terraforming and/or rate of decline, routine maintenance might not have been required for thousands of years. The Remnant might not have anticipated not being around anymore, so never bothered to install an automatic system to do this for them. After all, if they weren't around anymore, then why bother to maintain those "empty" worlds? That's why planetary conditions were slowly deteriorating across Heleus until Ryder showed up, because it required a manual start-up which the bots weren't programmed to do. (Apologies for the needlessly pedantic nitpicking and tin-foiling there, I actually agree with your point entirely) Personally, I think the Vaults fix worlds back to their original state. But that all really depends on what the Jardaan are and what they did I think they are synthetics that emptied the cluster (or even galaxy) of all organic life, destroying planets and their environments in the process, grew a conscious, and tried to fix their mistake. Interesting thought. That could lead us back to the post-ME3 Milky Way (with Jardaan tech in tow) and a way to restore it to the way that it was before anyone made any choices.... hmmm.
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Post by Monica21 on Jul 22, 2017 18:15:33 GMT
Personally, I think the Vaults fix worlds back to their original state. But that all really depends on what the Jardaan are and what they did Wouldn't "original state" mean "pre-vault"? So whatever the Jardaan did to make a planet habitable would no longer work and you'd only have Meridian as habitable. That kind of goes against everything you're trying to do though, so I don't see the logic there. There are a bunch of people trying to tie in the events in the Milky Way to what you find in Andromeda, and while I actually hope there isn't any, the one thing that would pique my interest is if the Jardaan were also a people that escaped the Reapers and fled to Andromeda. They're advanced far beyond any form of life we've seen, and if there is a connection, I think that would be kind of a cool one. I really, really, really don't want to see the Reapers in Andromeda.
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Post by SwobyJ on Jul 24, 2017 20:35:34 GMT
I'm okay with technology of the Reapers in Andromeda.
I'm skeptical, or cautious at best about a Reaper(s) being in Andromeda. But to me, a Reaper is an ancient AI in the form of a space cuttlefish, with the agenda of destroying everything we care about. EDI, for example, with Reaper tech basis to her creation, is not an actual Reaper, even if there's callouts to what she is and was.
I have no problems with connections. Its just that if you do a 'fresh start' - which is the best term for MEA in my opinion, and not even soft reboot really describes it - you don't make *necessary* connections, which arguably both ME2 and especially ME3 ("best place to start" my ass) had.
The furthest I'd like to see again something like Reapers 'blotting out the skies of worlds', is a flashback virtual or mental, or a particular twist in a more localized form with neo-Reapers or some merged-with-current-plotlines nonsense (/s; not really nonsense). But yes, no galaxy/Alliance vs the Reaper invasion/harvest, or maybe ever a primary importance. But I have no particular problems with them having a degree of unnecessary but helpful relevance to some things.
Its GOOD for new players to see things that inspire interest in trying out the trilogy - keep this in mind. "Oh, so that's what those Reapers were about in that ~2010 series! Cool I might buy the earlier games."
Sorry for getting O/T, was responding to what Monica21 said.
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Post by Psychevore on Jul 25, 2017 11:43:23 GMT
Personally, I think the Vaults fix worlds back to their original state. But that all really depends on what the Jardaan are and what they did Wouldn't "original state" mean "pre-vault"? So whatever the Jardaan did to make a planet habitable would no longer work and you'd only have Meridian as habitable. That kind of goes against everything you're trying to do though, so I don't see the logic there. There are a bunch of people trying to tie in the events in the Milky Way to what you find in Andromeda, and while I actually hope there isn't any, the one thing that would pique my interest is if the Jardaan were also a people that escaped the Reapers and fled to Andromeda. They're advanced far beyond any form of life we've seen, and if there is a connection, I think that would be kind of a cool one. I really, really, really don't want to see the Reapers in Andromeda. It's all iffy anyway, because the timing would have to be really fast and precise, considering the vaults weren't visible on the scans from the Milky Way. Though that could probably be handwaves. And the vaults themselves are super space magicky anyway. What I meant by pre-vault was something like Earth is now, with naturally occuring life which the Jardaan would've annihilated, then tried to restore with the Vaults. I'm just really hoping they tie in the whole synthetics vs organics thing again, I really liked it. Basically, I'm hoping Andromeda is a Mass Effect galaxy in which there are no Reapers and the Synthethic vs Organics conflict was allowed to fully run it's course, without intervention. What we have so far in terms of inhabitants are: the Jardaan (unknown what they are), the Angara (organic, but created by synthetics) and the Kett (organic, but highly modified and, in my opinion, possibly created). I haven't delved too deep into the Codex, but it seems like the Vaults literally control everything so it wouldn't be surprised that the non intelligent flora and fauna we see is also created. That would make all life in Andromeda created by synthetics. I'd weep. The balls that would take after ME3. But it's probably not the case. I'd love it though
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kelarqshah
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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kelarqshah
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kelarqshah
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by kelarqshah on Jul 26, 2017 11:35:12 GMT
It's all iffy anyway, because the timing would have to be really fast and precise, considering the vaults weren't visible on the scans from the Milky Way. Though that could probably be handwaves. And the vaults themselves are super space magicky anyway. What I meant by pre-vault was something like Earth is now, with naturally occuring life which the Jardaan would've annihilated, then tried to restore with the Vaults. I'm just really hoping they tie in the whole synthetics vs organics thing again, I really liked it. Basically, I'm hoping Andromeda is a Mass Effect galaxy in which there are no Reapers and the Synthethic vs Organics conflict was allowed to fully run it's course, without intervention. What we have so far in terms of inhabitants are: the Jardaan (unknown what they are), the Angara (organic, but created by synthetics) and the Kett (organic, but highly modified and, in my opinion, possibly created). I haven't delved too deep into the Codex, but it seems like the Vaults literally control everything so it wouldn't be surprised that the non intelligent flora and fauna we see is also created. That would make all life in Andromeda created by synthetics. I'd weep. The balls that would take after ME3. But it's probably not the case. I'd love it though I'm actually with you on this. I wasn't a particular fan of how the Organics vs Synthetics cycle was integrated in ME3, but if the Leviathans were around long enough to see the pattern repeating itself over and over, then this cycle should in theory play out in other galaxies unless there's something there that drastically alters the variables. Andromeda never developed mass effect technology so there's that. The fact that Ryder requires SAM to activate most Remtech could also suggest that the Jaardan designed their technology to be used by races that had achieved Synthesis. OT though, you're right about the timeline being off. I originally wondered if the 'unusual number of golden worlds' in Heleus spotted from the Milky Way was down to the Vaults, but carbon dating puts the Remnant structures at 300-400 years old, after the Initiative left the Milky Way. That suggests that the worlds were habitable before the Vaults? So did the Jaardan want to radically alter these planets to better support the angara? If so, the Vaults might have had devastating effects on the planets' original flora and fauna. I just think it would be cool to see something similar on Voeld in MEA2.
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