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Post by spacev3gan on Sept 21, 2016 7:51:23 GMT
It seems like the OP is seriously interested in 4K and bought the idea of going 4K after seeing ME Andromeda PS4 Pro teaser. 4K is sold as the future of gaming and it is without a doubt the future of gaming, but there are other things we have to consider.
First of all, anyone who plays on PC will tell you right away that your "FPS" - that is, your frames-per-second rate - matters more than your resolution. Also anyone who plays competitive, well-optimized games on PS4 and XBONE will likely tell you the same. And what is an ideal FPS rate? No less than 60. Modern PCs can run games faster than that, but you don't really want to be under 60. Being under 60 would result in a slow, blurry, unrealistic and rather painful gaming experience.
Nevertheless, Bioware has proven to have a backwards mindset when it comes to console gaming. They took the Frostbite 3 Engine from Dice - a company which has released 5 games running at 60 fps using their engine - and managed to give us Dragon Age Inquisition, a 30 fps game! Why and how Bioware managed to accomplished that, I don't know, but it is not over: Mass Effect Andromeda teaser runs at 30 fps as well!
There are deniers. People who said the fact that teaser can't be played at 60 fps doesn't mean the game won't run at 60 fps. But the fact is: PS4 Pro uses a cut down, underclocked version of the AMD Polaris 10 as their graphics processor. The Polaris 10 is a great graphics processor - I have one myself, my RX470 - but this is a mid-range graphics processor, for 1080p 60fps gaming. It is not a 4K graphics processor, unless you are intending to run games at 20-30 fps.
4K 60 fps Graphics adapters do exist. But well, they cost quite a bit. We are talking about a Gtx 1080 as minimum, and this adapter costs U$750 - almost twice as much as a PS4 Pro - and this is only one component of a gaming PC. Granted it is the most experience component, but there are still six or seven other components which are part of a gaming PC. That means, actual 4K gaming is quite expensive. Also this graphics adapter will never last 5+ years. It might on a 1080p or 1440p display, but not on 4K. I would say it will be obsolete in 2-3 years maximum for 4K, possibly less.
tl;dr Resolution is not that important. FPS is more important.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2016 7:52:53 GMT
All-in-one meaning what? What do you intend to use it for ex. office work, graphics, etc. The reason I am asking this is because it's quite difficult to think a configuration that would last 5+ years, without knowing what else you'd expect from that computer. And also why do you intend to get into PC gaming since you are used to play on PS4? You are getting yourself into a whole new world of trouble (ex. Origin ). Well, the idea of more 1.5 consoles happening in the future (this generation and beyond) doesn't appeal to me. I'd rather just not have to worry about it and upgrade on my own. I already have a work laptop (Macbook Pro 13-inch early 2011 model) So, this is for entertainment in general. Question, is CyberPowerPC a reliable source on building one and or getting it pre-built. No. Absolutely not. CyberPowerPC is pretty terrible. They'll cut corners on important hardware where they can (usually skimping on the power supply, for instance, and a cheap power supply can be the death of an entire system), sneak in refurbished parts, and they often send the wrong configurations or systems that are just flat out Dead On Arrival. The same applies for IBuyPower and some of those other shitty custom-build PC gaming outlets out there. If you're going to get a pre-built you are actually better off sticking with the big name brands like Lenovo, Dell, Alienware, or HP. You will still be getting heavily ripped off, but the likelihood of getting a DOA system is lower and the build quality is generally decent if you can tolerate their machines coming stuffed with unnecessary software bloat. Like others have said, though, building your own is almost always the better deal and , while daunting at first, is not as complicated as it looks; there are lots of decent guides out there on both the physical assembly of a computer and parts selections.
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Post by nanotm on Sept 21, 2016 8:58:36 GMT
regardless of what pc you build the biggest problem by far is the power supply unit, anything that isn't at least 80+gold rated is going to be a weak link (especially if you don't go for overkill on the output power) as a general rule the psu should cost around the same as the mobo (unless you go for some ridiculously overpriced ROG one that is)
I built my pc on a budget, my psu (corsair hx1050) cost £155, the mobo sabretooth 990fx cost £130, the cpu fx8350 cost £90, the hx80igt cost £50, the ram 16gb corsair vengeance ddr3 cost £100, the gpu rx480 8gb oc cost £250, the ssd Samsung 840 250gb cost £100 the 2 x 2tb wd black drives cost £100 each, the blue ray multi burner cost £90, the fan controller cost £ 20, the case fans cost £80, and the case cost £30 off ebay... of all the parts the case is the least important in terms of looks, the only important thing about the case is it isn't wobbly and allows good airflow..
of course I built my pc over time, some parts are now 8 years old whilst others are less than a month old and its a constant evolution, theres nothing wrong with starting off with a cheap mobo + cpu, so long as your case is large enough to be able to take what you put in it and your psu is strong enough to power it without issues you can literally start of wiht an all in one microatx mobo and a single hard drive and just add bits /upgrade bits as you can afford them or they become avaialbe.
most people prefer intel cpu's and nvida gfx cards, but those things have a high price tag and the performance difference isn't worth the up front cost unless money is no object,
but if your looking at gaming specifically as your primary use with 4k output (4k monitors are going to cost the same as the rest of the pc)then you will need to overprovision to avoid needing to upgrade within the first year, by this I mean minimum of 16gb of ram preferably 32gb, the ssd will need to be at least 480gb, the gpu should hjave at least 16gb of ram (ok so you will need to be running sli or crossfire to achieve that) and to be honest its just not worth it.
I wouldn't build a top of the line pc right now, i'd leave that for next may >june, if I was lkookign to make the switch right now then i'd be looking at picking up a system off ebay or similar that's got either an i5 or better intel or an fx8320 or better amd (or at a push maybe the a8 apu) with the dvd drive and hard drives in it, and then buy a gpu to add to it (the gpu will be used when you upgrade or start the new build anyway) so long as the mobo is capable of running at least 16gb of ram it doesn't matter whats physically fitted to it
my reasoning for this is simple, both intel and amd are due to release their new generation of cpu's by may next year so current generation cpu's will be half the price and the new stuff might actually be worth getting, anything that cant run dx12 or vulkan is pointless for a forward looking system and that pretty much rules out everything below the 12gb 1080 nvida gpu (which costs more than most self built towers)
so if your really into the idea of self build, scour ebay for cheap bits or value deals and start with that, even if the thing on sale is in a horrible case just buy it and buy a case you like (but make sure its large enough not just nice looking) and move the guts across............
oh and you can run a pc on a tv most newer led TV's are fine for this (less than 3 years old) but be aware of the refresh time (response time) is often a lot higher than on a proper monitor (typically TV's start at 5ms and can run as high as 25ms and yes it really does make a difference) for the monitor if you can get either freesync or gsync version (freesync is amd gsync is NVidia) just be informed that NVidia has for years everytiem its releaseing a new gpu issued driver updates that down clock its existing gfx cards, so instead of getting better over time they get worse or just stop being supported, whilst amd historically has supported their hardware for much longer and often improves performance through new drivers even when their new stuff is released....
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Post by corpusdei on Sept 21, 2016 12:14:51 GMT
You don't need to build your own PC but you do need to be able to spec it... any half-way decent custom PC shop will build a machine to your specs, possibly offer alternatives and/or improvements and they can deal with the tedium of the Windows install and stability checks if you get the CPU overclocked. You pay for it though.
On any new build, the three things I don't skimp on are motherboard, power supply and CPU. If you get those right you can keep the box running pretty well for years; you'll probably need to up the RAM at some point and upgrade the graphics card but the core of the machine will be fine for a long time.
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Post by straykat on Sept 21, 2016 13:49:57 GMT
That will easily run BF1. I don't know about Digital Storm, but they seem kind of cool. I wouldn't bother with a second hard drive personally. SSD is faster loading though. The other hdd is for storage, but if you don't really need it atm, you can get something later. Or just a bigger, single SSD.
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Post by nanotm on Sept 21, 2016 15:59:37 GMT
change the windows to pro, the home edition is garbage / if speakers are what you want I'd get them from somewhere else those are bearable but don't give good sound (or get a headset but again you can get good cheap ones elsewhere) if your planning on playing games get a better keyboard /mouse combo. the ones you've linked to are fine for typing on but a decent full nkro mechanical one will be a lot better for gaming and wont leave you swearing because your key press didn't get recognised .... same for a mouse I notice they do the corsair bundle further down the page the k70 or the k95 keyboards are good, and you will want a gaming grade optical mouse for shooters like bf1 (something like the Logitech g5xx proteus core or the corsair m65) but having said that it will work just fine
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Post by spacev3gan on Sept 21, 2016 16:20:12 GMT
but if your looking at gaming specifically as your primary use with 4k output (4k monitors are going to cost the same as the rest of the pc)then you will need to overprovision to avoid needing to upgrade within the first year, by this I mean minimum of 16gb of ram preferably 32gb, the ssd will need to be at least 480gb, the gpu should hjave at least 16gb of ram (ok so you will need to be running sli or crossfire to achieve that) and to be honest its just not worth it. Actually there is no difference between 16GB and 32GB of memory ram. In fact, there is no difference between 8GB and 16GB either. In some cases, there is no difference even between 4GB and 8GB. 8GB itself is considered sufficient for gaming nowadays. And since the CPU load doesn't increase on larger resolutions, you won't need more memory ram for larger resolutions. People tend to overbuy memory ram because they are pretty cheap, but you don't need lots of it for gaming. The SSD size is pure storage, it doesn't impact performance whatsoever. If he wants just the OS, some apps and one or two games, 120GB will suffice. Now if he wants 15+ games installed, then he definitely should grab a 480GB one. As for GPU Vram, it does not effectively double when you run SLI nor Crossfire. Two video cards that have 8GB of Vram each will amount for a total of 8GB Vram when paired. You may say you have 16Gb of Vram, but you will use only 8GB for gaming regardless.
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Post by nanotm on Sept 21, 2016 16:45:31 GMT
but if your looking at gaming specifically as your primary use with 4k output (4k monitors are going to cost the same as the rest of the pc)then you will need to overprovision to avoid needing to upgrade within the first year, by this I mean minimum of 16gb of ram preferably 32gb, the ssd will need to be at least 480gb, the gpu should hjave at least 16gb of ram (ok so you will need to be running sli or crossfire to achieve that) and to be honest its just not worth it. Actually there is no difference between 16GB and 32GB of memory ram. In fact, there is no difference between 8GB and 16GB either. In some cases, there is no difference even between 4GB and 8GB. 8GB itself is considered sufficient for gaming nowadays. And since the CPU load doesn't increase on larger resolutions, you won't need more memory ram for larger resolutions. People tend to overbuy memory ram because they are pretty cheap, but you don't need lots of it for gaming. The SSD size is pure storage, it doesn't impact performance whatsoever. If he wants just the OS, some apps and one or two games, 120GB will suffice. Now if he wants 15+ games installed, then he definitely should grab a 480GB one. As for GPU Vram, it does not effectively double when you run SLI nor Crossfire. Two video cards that have 8GB of Vram each will amount for a total of 8GB Vram when paired. You may say you have 16Gb of Vram, but you will use only 8GB for gaming regardless. 5 years ago people were told a minimum of 4gb of ram recommended 8gb, today people are saying minimum of 8gb recommended 16gb, in another 5 years that will likely double again so that the shiny new graphics card and 4kultra display isn't getting slowed back down to 30fps by not having enough ram... ram also often gets expensive when its an older standard and new systems are being built to the new standard so its well worth getting more now than waiting for its price to jump up. try loading dxmkd on a standard hdd and playing it (with the recommended spec'd system) then put it onto an ssd and tell me there no point having a larger drive.... most modern aaa games run to 50gig+ drive space + they need a swap file at least as large as your ram often twice that size for all those high end textures, so whilst you might not think that a larger drive is a good idea performance enthusiasts disagree under dx11 your correct but under dx12 that's supposedly changing so your actually getting more than just an upgrade in the number of raw comupte units that can be used.... making it actually worth going sli/xfire for the first time ever
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Post by Andrew Waples on Sept 21, 2016 16:53:36 GMT
change the windows to pro, the home edition is garbage / if speakers are what you want I'd get them from somewhere else those are bearable but don't give good sound (or get a headset but again you can get good cheap ones elsewhere)
if your planning on playing games get a better keyboard /mouse combo. the ones you've linked to are fine for typing on but a decent full nkro mechanical one will be a lot better for gaming and wont leave you swearing because your key press didn't get recognised .... same for a mouse I notice they do the corsair bundle further down the page the k70 or the k95 keyboards are good, and you will want a gaming grade optical mouse for shooters like bf1 (something like the Logitech g5xx proteus core or the corsair m65) but having said that it will work just fine I already have a good headset and I plan on using a controller anyway. As I tend to play more single player then multiplayer. What about getting Internet access with this build? I'm currently using a Wi-Fi access point. Will my home Internet be enough? Performing an Internet speed test says that it's good enough to do that.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2016 16:58:54 GMT
Ok I have a bit of a question
Are RAM and dedicated video RAM different things??? Or are they the same and linked somehow???
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Post by razrblck ☯ on Sept 21, 2016 16:59:50 GMT
Andrew Waples that config is not bad at all, though I would pair a Core i3 6100 with a GTX 1060 and save a lot of money without any performance drop in games. If you want to truly go 4K/2160p, then switch the GTX 1060 for a 1070. It won't do ultra settings at that resolution with good enough framerates, but you'll still be able to get higher settings than what a PS4 Pro can be capable of. Overclocking the card will give you even more of a boost. These new cards from nVidia can overclock quite a bit as long as you have proper cooling for it. You should be able to save some money with a Core i5 6600K (or 6500 if you don't plan on overclocking it) and put the extra money on the GTX 1070 and 16GB of RAM (which can be useful for high settings). This is a good starting point for the i3/1060 build: pcpartpicker.com/list/kVrygLAnd this is the 4K capable build: pcpartpicker.com/list/3DbshqI've left out more personal things like case and monitor (both up to taste and 4K monitors are very expensive), speakers (up to you), mouse and keyboard (you really need to try them before buying, gaming conventions are a good place to get a feel). You can get lower prices hunting around or switching some parts depending on what features you need. The i7 is really good, but at least for a few more years there won't be any games that benefit enough from hyperthreading to justify the higher price. Ok I have a bit of a question Are RAM and dedicated video RAM different things??? Or are they the same and linked somehow??? Generally when people refer to RAM they talk about system RAM, which is the one dedicated to the processor. Video RAM is the one mounted directly on a video card and dedicated only to that, so it's not usable by applications that are not graphic intensive (eg. Word will only use video RAM to render its interface which takes just a few megabytes, games can use many gigabytes of video RAM on top of many gigabytes of system RAM because of the huge amount of data and textures).
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Post by ToLazy4Name on Sept 21, 2016 17:00:44 GMT
I'd say you should go for 16 GB of RAM, but yeah that rig will easily play BF1 at 60 FPS maxed out. Obvious bit of advice here, but i'm gonna say it anyway: look around ALOT. The best thing you can do for optimizing your purchase is to just look around everywhere you can whether it's different build guides, youtube tutorials or prebuilt systems. You'll learn through sheer attrition what components are better than others, what's worth your money, what is and isn't good, etc just from doing that. Edit: Oh yeah, also you should definitely make sure your final build has an SSD. Seriously, it's hard to explain the difference between a rig that does and doesn't have an SSD. It's almost like the difference between 30 FPS and 60 FPS.
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Post by Lavochkin on Sept 21, 2016 17:10:07 GMT
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Sept 21, 2016 17:30:24 GMT
Help this poor burdened soul, he has realized the errors of his ways and wants to leave his dark heathen past behind to ascend into the warm bright light of the PC-gaming heaven.
He is asking for forgiveness for his impious and horrid ways of worshiping the unspeakably abhorred abomination that is the console - so forgiveness he shall receive. With your unconditional love and knowledge, dear brothers and sisters, he may succeed in building a cool PC worthy in the eyes of our most holy Saviour.
HAIL PC! *holds desktop PC up into the sunny sky*
Also yes to the HDD but a standard hard drive for the most critical data is always a good idea.
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Post by bmwcrazy on Sept 21, 2016 17:45:32 GMT
Personally, I wouldn't even touch 4K at the moment unless I had two Titan X (Pascal) on SLI.
But yeah, my methods are a bit unorthodox when it comes to PC gaming.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2016 17:54:24 GMT
(another question)
How much would a pc cost which would run games like Mass Effect Andromeda and like the new ones???
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Post by ToLazy4Name on Sept 21, 2016 17:56:46 GMT
(another question) How much would a pc cost which would run games like Mass Effect Andromeda and like the new ones??? Unless it's awfully optimized for PC, you should be able to get a rig that can run it for ~$800, probably less if you know what you're doing.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2016 18:01:51 GMT
(another question) How much would a pc cost which would run games like Mass Effect Andromeda and like the new ones??? Unless it's awfully optimized for PC, you should be able to get a rig that can run it for ~$800, probably less if you know what you're doing.
I have no idea what im doing
I thought it would be like a few thousand... huh... not as bad as I thought... my current pc cost like $500... its quite a few years old by now
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Post by ToLazy4Name on Sept 21, 2016 18:05:16 GMT
Unless it's awfully optimized for PC, you should be able to get a rig that can run it for ~$800, probably less if you know what you're doing.
I have no idea what im doing
I thought it would be like a few thousand... huh... not as bad as I thought... my current pc cost like $500... its quite a few years old by now
Again, you can get a rig that is more powerful than the current gen consoles for 800 bucks easily, and less if you know what you're doing/are frugal/BLACK FRIDAY Edit: Also, holy fuck "a few thousand" went over my head. Bud, for multiple thousands of dollars, you can get a PC that will run the Mass Effect title AFTER Andromeda at 60 FPS.
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Post by docsteely on Sept 21, 2016 18:16:33 GMT
Unless it's awfully optimized for PC, you should be able to get a rig that can run it for ~$800, probably less if you know what you're doing.
I have no idea what im doing
I thought it would be like a few thousand... huh... not as bad as I thought... my current pc cost like $500... its quite a few years old by now
Look at ToLazy4Name 's first post in this thread he gives some pertinent options in it.
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Sept 21, 2016 18:29:48 GMT
Help this poor burdened soul, he has realized the errors of his ways and wants to leave his dark heathen past behind to ascend into the warm bright light of the PC-gaming heaven. He is asking for forgiveness for his impious and horrid ways of worshiping the unspeakably abhorred abomination that is the console - so forgiveness he shall receive. With your unconditional love and knowledge, dear brothers and sisters, he may succeed in building a cool PC worthy in the eyes of our most holy Saviour. HAIL PC! *holds desktop PC up into the sunny sky* Also yes to the HDD but a standard hard drive for the most critical data is always a good idea. Go for this Setup: CPU: Something Core i7, over 4GHz Memory: Corsair 16 GB with 2000MHz speed (recently I had difficulties with loading and running a few games with 8GB of ram) Motherboard: Gigabyte (something that can support these and have the potential for upgrades AKA ask Crusty!) SSD: 2 SSD, one at least 256GB for windows drive, the other for gaming etc. HDD: 1 HHD 1 TB or above, for storage, music and stuff Keyboard: Logitech, something Mechanical like G610, G710, or the ultimate G910 Mouse: Logitech Speaker: Logitech, above 50W RMS Monitor: Samsung or Benq??? Graphic Card: Nvidia GTX 1070 or better ... mostly these.
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Post by bmwcrazy on Sept 21, 2016 18:56:54 GMT
Go for this Setup: CPU: Something Core i7, over 4GHz Memory: Corsair 16 GB with 2000MHz speed (recently I had difficulties with loading and running a few games with 8GB of ram) Motherboard: Gigabyte (something that can support these and have the potential for upgrades AKA ask Crusty!) SSD: 2 SSD, one at least 256GB for windows drive, the other for gaming etc. HDD: 1 HHD 1 TB or above, for storage, music and stuff Keyboard: Logitech, something Mechanical like G610, G710, or the ultimate G910 Mouse: Logitech Speaker: Logitech, above 50W RMS Monitor: Samsung or Benq??? Graphic Card: Nvidia GTX 1070 or better ... mostly these. For mouse, I'd definitely recommend the Logitech G502. I liked it so much that I bought two as backups. I also agree with getting a 4ghz i7 (6700K) with a GTX 1070. If you're on a tighter budget, you can get the i5 6600K instead. Make sure you pair the 6700K or the 6600K with a Z170 chipset-based motherboard so you can overclock it.
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Post by nanotm on Sept 21, 2016 19:13:06 GMT
change the windows to pro, the home edition is garbage / if speakers are what you want I'd get them from somewhere else those are bearable but don't give good sound (or get a headset but again you can get good cheap ones elsewhere)
if your planning on playing games get a better keyboard /mouse combo. the ones you've linked to are fine for typing on but a decent full nkro mechanical one will be a lot better for gaming and wont leave you swearing because your key press didn't get recognised .... same for a mouse I notice they do the corsair bundle further down the page the k70 or the k95 keyboards are good, and you will want a gaming grade optical mouse for shooters like bf1 (something like the Logitech g5xx proteus core or the corsair m65) but having said that it will work just fine I already have a good headset and I plan on using a controller anyway. As I tend to play more single player then multiplayer. What about getting Internet access with this build? I'm currently using a Wi-Fi access point. Will my home Internet be enough? Performing an Internet speed test says that it's good enough to do that. if you plan on playing bf1 then go wired, wifi is prone to problems and it adds latency typically an 80ms increase due to wifi isn't uncommon if there are other devices on your internet connection, that might not sound like a lot but when others have latency under 50ms your going to do a lot of face planting and not knowing why, the single biggest factor in pc pvp games is latency, the second is input lag and the third is ability level of the players, its not so bad on consoles because you all play against the exact same platform and all have the same problems but on pc everyone has their system so all you can do is minimise avoidable problems. also on wifi you will find that if the connection is beign used by another wifi device you will proabably get spikes upwards of 300ms, and that 3 second time delay in information transfer will be the difference between you seeing the guy that nailed you to the floor before your camera is spinning or not.... and whilst I am lazy and use controller in some games it is laggy and slow compared to keyboard and mouse, so I would pop to the local best buy or target and try out the peripherals that best suit you and then search online for the best price to get them at so you at least have the option of being a tru master race member and something not mentioned is the chair, if you don't have a decent one then after a few weeks of serious gaming your going to be in pain, but don't think you need some top of the line gaming chair, a pretty standard office mesh chair with lumbar support piece will be perfect (here in England we can get them for about £50 from most retailers) but the mesh unlike the leather comfort chairs is breathable so you don't end up glued into the seat through sweat and yet its still generally comfortable.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Sept 21, 2016 20:17:12 GMT
I already have a good headset and I plan on using a controller anyway. As I tend to play more single player then multiplayer. What about getting Internet access with this build? I'm currently using a Wi-Fi access point. Will my home Internet be enough? Performing an Internet speed test says that it's good enough to do that. if you plan on playing bf1 then go wired, wifi is prone to problems and it adds latency typically an 80ms increase due to wifi isn't uncommon if there are other devices on your internet connection, that might not sound like a lot but when others have latency under 50ms your going to do a lot of face planting and not knowing why, the single biggest factor in pc pvp games is latency, the second is input lag and the third is ability level of the players, its not so bad on consoles because you all play against the exact same platform and all have the same problems but on pc everyone has their system so all you can do is minimise avoidable problems. also on wifi you will find that if the connection is beign used by another wifi device you will proabably get spikes upwards of 300ms, and that 3 second time delay in information transfer will be the difference between you seeing the guy that nailed you to the floor before your camera is spinning or not.... and whilst I am lazy and use controller in some games it is laggy and slow compared to keyboard and mouse, so I would pop to the local best buy or target and try out the peripherals that best suit you and then search online for the best price to get them at so you at least have the option of being a tru master race member and something not mentioned is the chair, if you don't have a decent one then after a few weeks of serious gaming your going to be in pain, but don't think you need some top of the line gaming chair, a pretty standard office mesh chair with lumbar support piece will be perfect (here in England we can get them for about £50 from most retailers) but the mesh unlike the leather comfort chairs is breathable so you don't end up glued into the seat through sweat and yet its still generally comfortable. I don't plan on playing Battlefield 1 (at least not a launch), I was just using it as an example. I do however want to play The Witcher 1-3 properly though that's sort of the goal, as well user mods with games like Fallout 4 and Skyrim. Also, regarding the chair I already have one.
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