DoctorFox
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 433 Likes: 572
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Post by DoctorFox on Aug 7, 2017 1:24:49 GMT
Because the annihilation field radius is in front of the Batguard and would prime a target split seconds before he crashes into it.
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Post by ddrguy300 on Aug 7, 2017 1:39:43 GMT
Agreed. Honestly, they should change it so that charging from anywhere with annihilation on should trigger an explosion. Take off that on/off crap from field when charging. Because as of right now, unless they'd rather make right how hold the line works on all kits with shields active, there's no justification for this kit to be ultra rare. He goes down way too much for something with bastion and hold the line. I wonder if one of them aren't working properly.
It might just be that I've been playing the exemplar and avenger too much not really using soldiers, but man this guy doesn't feel right.
P.S. Not even sure, but has anyone ever tested hold the line mechanics when shields are back up but health is below 30% on other kits? Does it not work on them too? Or is this a special case/is hold the line broken on the vanguard?
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Post by shinobiwan on Aug 7, 2017 2:16:15 GMT
Eh, those of us who played with this setup in SP knew to expect it. It's fine in SP, and the batguard is lacking in MP for different reasons.
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Post by konfeta on Aug 7, 2017 3:29:55 GMT
Well, SP has funny Vanguard combos like DoT melee sword proccing Barrier Drain every tic.
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Post by jloco11 on Aug 7, 2017 4:27:48 GMT
I figured if you can make an enemy float in front of you, then it should be a combo.
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Scathane
N4
Space Pirate
🚀🥃🏴☠
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: Scathane
Posts: 1,539 Likes: 3,093
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scathane
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Post by Scathane on Aug 7, 2017 9:58:47 GMT
I think it really shouldn't, as his punch provides for a biotic combo already. This character is perfectly playable as a Charge-Melee character for Gold and below, imho...
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brannigans1ove
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Brannigans 1ove
PSN: Hand_of_Dom
Posts: 148 Likes: 239
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Post by brannigans1ove on Aug 7, 2017 10:09:36 GMT
I think it really shouldn't, as his punch provides for a biotic combo already. This character is perfectly playable as a Charge-Melee character for Gold and below, imho... Completely agree, if they had, everyone would be bitching about him being OP. That said, it would have been funny if they had, at least for the couple of weeks until they patched him, then people could reminisce about his glory days, whilst I moaned because he never dropped for me during that period.
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Post by mydamnalterego on Aug 7, 2017 11:03:18 GMT
In fact - if this would be done, his detonating melee would be a bit of excessive. I.e. - either auto-detonation on Charge with Annihilation on and normal non-detonating melee, or as it is now, no auto-detonation and detonation with melee strike.
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Post by Pounce de León on Aug 7, 2017 11:07:21 GMT
In fact - if this would be done, his detonating melee would be a bit of excessive. I.e. - either auto-detonation on Charge with Annihilation on and normal non-detonating melee, or as it is now, no auto-detonation and detonation with melee strike. huh? It can do that? I always wanted a kit like that in ME3MP.
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Post by crashsuit on Aug 7, 2017 19:13:22 GMT
In fact - if this would be done, his detonating melee would be a bit of excessive. I.e. - either auto-detonation on Charge with Annihilation on and normal non-detonating melee, or as it is now, no auto-detonation and detonation with melee strike. huh? It can do that? I always wanted a kit like that in ME3MP.
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Post by gethadept on Aug 7, 2017 19:38:27 GMT
No, it shouldn`t.
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Post by onehitparry on Aug 7, 2017 19:42:08 GMT
I think it really shouldn't, as his punch provides for a biotic combo already. This character is perfectly playable as a Charge-Melee character for Gold and below, imho... DoctorFox 's argument isn't about balance or already having the ability to detonate with his gauntlet. While he maybe balanced already, logically, AF + Charge should always cause a detonation (assuming AF primes instantly) because AF should act upon a target before a Charge hits. So it's unclear (at least to me) as to whether the combo is working as intended. Based on what you said, and how little play testing it would take to confirm this behavior, it probably is working as intended (even if the interaction is unintuitive). This also seems to give us some indication into the delay that AF has in priming, or that maybe Charge is animated as a line of effect power, but in reality is executed like a teleport power (like Avenger/Shadow Strike).
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Post by gethadept on Aug 7, 2017 19:50:19 GMT
I think it really shouldn't, as his punch provides for a biotic combo already. This character is perfectly playable as a Charge-Melee character for Gold and below, imho... DoctorFox 's argument isn't about balance or already having the ability to detonate with his gauntlet. While he maybe balanced already, logically, AF + Charge should always cause a detonation (assuming AF primes instantly) because AF should act upon a target before a Charge hits. So it's unclear (at least to me) as to whether the combo is working as intended. Based on what you said, and how little play testing it would take to confirm this behavior, it probably is working as intended (even if the interaction is unintuitive). This also seems to give us some indication into the delay that AF has in priming, or that maybe Charge is animated as a line of effect power, but in reality is executed like a teleport power (like Avenger/Shadow Strike). AF gets turned off as character prepares charge and gain invincibility frame. AF gets turned back on only after charge finished. Game play wise it makes sense. Lore wise, we can make it make sense.
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Post by shinobiwan on Aug 7, 2017 20:13:13 GMT
I think the reason it works the way it does is less about balance and more about the way charge works. I don't think the game attempts to calculate where you are until charge hits, so getting the annihilation field in the right place may require reworking the coding. Obviously there are higher priorities.
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Post by onehitparry on Aug 7, 2017 20:18:57 GMT
DoctorFox 's argument isn't about balance or already having the ability to detonate with his gauntlet. While he maybe balanced already, logically, AF + Charge should always cause a detonation (assuming AF primes instantly) because AF should act upon a target before a Charge hits. So it's unclear (at least to me) as to whether the combo is working as intended. Based on what you said, and how little play testing it would take to confirm this behavior, it probably is working as intended (even if the interaction is unintuitive). This also seems to give us some indication into the delay that AF has in priming, or that maybe Charge is animated as a line of effect power, but in reality is executed like a teleport power (like Avenger/Shadow Strike). AF gets turned off as character prepares charge and gain invincibility frame. AF gets turned back on only after charge finished. Game play wise it makes sense. Lore wise, we can make it make sense. We shouldn't have to "make it make sense." The fact that there's any doubt about whether this interaction is working as intended is the issue. Ideally, there should be a consistency with which the powers describe and the way they interact. Your explanation is supported by the gameplay mechanics, but it requires speculation on the part of the player. Speculation that Charge deactivates AF (which isn't mention in the power's description) only when attacking distant enemies, and that when AF is deactivated in this manner, it doesn't not induce a cool-down period. Overall, it's always better if a game is consistent with it's descriptions and that any exceptions are explicitly listed and that players do not have to speculate on how powers interact to avoid having to test specific interactions.
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Scathane
N4
Space Pirate
🚀🥃🏴☠
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: Scathane
Posts: 1,539 Likes: 3,093
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by Scathane on Aug 7, 2017 20:21:57 GMT
I think it really shouldn't, as his punch provides for a biotic combo already. This character is perfectly playable as a Charge-Melee character for Gold and below, imho... DoctorFox 's argument isn't about balance or already having the ability to detonate with his gauntlet. While he maybe balanced already, logically, AF + Charge should always cause a detonation (assuming AF primes instantly) because AF should act upon a target before a Charge hits. So it's unclear (at least to me) as to whether the combo is working as intended. Based on what you said, and how little play testing it would take to confirm this behavior, it probably is working as intended (even if the interaction is unintuitive). This also seems to give us some indication into the delay that AF has in priming, or that maybe Charge is animated as a line of effect power, but in reality is executed like a teleport power (like Avenger/Shadow Strike). Ah, well, what gethadept said then. I don't think there's any delay in AF priming, btw...
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Post by onehitparry on Aug 7, 2017 20:33:15 GMT
Ah, well, what gethadept said then. Are you agreeing with gethadept 's explanation because it's consistent with the the gameplay, or because you expected AF and Charge to combine in that way based on their descriptions. I feel like I might be worked up about my own little argument at this point that may not even be related to the OP.
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Post by gethadept on Aug 7, 2017 20:41:01 GMT
AF gets turned off as character prepares charge and gain invincibility frame. AF gets turned back on only after charge finished. Game play wise it makes sense. Lore wise, we can make it make sense. We shouldn't have to "make it make sense." The fact that there's any doubt about whether this interaction is working as intended is the issue. Ideally, there should be a consistency with which the powers describe and the way they interact. Your explanation is supported by the gameplay mechanics, but it requires speculation on the part of the player. Speculation that Charge deactivates AF (which isn't mention in the power's description) only when attacking distant enemies, and that when AF is deactivated in this manner, it doesn't not induce a cool-down period. Overall, it's always better if a game is consistent with it's descriptions and that any exceptions are explicitly listed and that players do not have to speculate on how powers interact to avoid having to test specific interactions. Consider it as a price for gaining invincibility frame and teleporting ability. BTW, if AF doesn`t get deactivated by charge and apply vortex to every enemy within its path, the game will have a lot of trouble. It`s not just about charge + auto combo itself being too powerful. (It is too powerful with XX bonus) Lore wise, BW won`t explain it. But charge and Annihilation field might simply be two biotic power impossible to co-exist. Possibly because the difficulty of maintaining and performing both, and possibly because they both use biotic field.
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Scathane
N4
Space Pirate
🚀🥃🏴☠
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: Scathane
Posts: 1,539 Likes: 3,093
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🚀🥃🏴☠
1,539
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scathane
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by Scathane on Aug 7, 2017 20:45:09 GMT
Ah, well, what gethadept said then. Are you agreeing with gethadept 's explanation because it's consistent with the the gameplay, or because you expected AF and Charge to combine in that way based on their descriptions. I feel like I might be worked up about my own little argument at this point that may not even be related to the OP. The first...
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Post by onehitparry on Aug 7, 2017 21:08:31 GMT
Consider it as a price for gaining invincibility frame and teleporting ability. BTW, if AF doesn`t get deactivated by charge and apply vortex to every enemy within its path, the game will have a lot of trouble. It`s not just about charge + auto combo itself being too powerful. (It is too powerful with XX bonus) Lore wise, BW won`t explain it. But charge and Annihilation field might simply be two biotic power impossible to co-exist. Possibly because the difficulty of maintaining and performing both, and possibly because they both use biotic field. I'll ask you the same question I asked Scathane , did you come up with that explanation before or after you knew about how the power interact in-game? My issue isn't trying to explain the actual interaction itself. In fact I went back at watched InfamousSparkman 's solo. And your explanation seems 100% correct. You can see AF shrink whenever the Batarian activates charge. My issue is that this behavior might not be listed in the power description, so this interaction is unintuitive.
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Post by gethadept on Aug 7, 2017 21:23:00 GMT
Consider it as a price for gaining invincibility frame and teleporting ability. BTW, if AF doesn`t get deactivated by charge and apply vortex to every enemy within its path, the game will have a lot of trouble. It`s not just about charge + auto combo itself being too powerful. (It is too powerful with XX bonus) Lore wise, BW won`t explain it. But charge and Annihilation field might simply be two biotic power impossible to co-exist. Possibly because the difficulty of maintaining and performing both, and possibly because they both use biotic field. I'll ask you the same question I asked Scathane , did you come up with that explanation before or after you knew about how the power interact in-game? I did hope for it to cause Biotic combo too when I first set my Ryder for it. But it doesn`t. I knew this for 4 months from playing SP. It doesn`t. It won`t. Now you know. Don`t cry about it. It makes sense.
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Post by onehitparry on Aug 7, 2017 21:24:15 GMT
I'll ask you the same question I asked Scathane , did you come up with that explanation before or after you knew about how the power interact in-game? I did hope for it to cause Biotic combo too when I first set my Ryder for it. But it doesn`t. I knew this for 4 months from playing SP. It doesn`t. It won`t. Now you know. Don`t cry about it. It makes sense. I think you've been misinterpreting my tone altogether. I'm not crying about it. I'm just a stickler for consistency. Like you said, you would expect it to work, but it doesn't, so we move on. There's been a misunderstanding between the two of us. I misunderstood your explanations for expectations.
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Post by gethadept on Aug 7, 2017 21:26:53 GMT
I did hope for it to cause Biotic combo too when I first set my Ryder for it. But it doesn`t. I knew this for 4 months from playing SP. It doesn`t. It won`t. Now you know. Don`t cry about it. It makes sense. I think you've been misinterpreting my tone altogether. I'm not crying about it. I'm just a stickler for consistency. Yeah. I get your point. I am sorry if I put it in wrong way. ..but that`s how this game is. We expect something... but it doesn`t work as we expected. We try to figure out why then move on.
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Post by onehitparry on Aug 7, 2017 21:32:20 GMT
I think you've been misinterpreting my tone altogether. I'm not crying about it. I'm just a stickler for consistency. Yeah. I get your point. I am sorry if I put it in wrong way. ..but that`s how this game is. We expect something... but it doesn`t work as we expected. We try to figure out why then move on. I just wasted a decent portion of our time on something insignificant. And for that I apologize. I think that means I'm done posting on BSN for the day.
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Post by Pounce de León on Aug 7, 2017 21:44:46 GMT
huh? It can do that? I always wanted a kit like that in ME3MP. Ahem.
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