Learning from Andromeda, Lessons for the Future.

Well - the fact that Ryder wasn't often put in such position may be a problem in and of itself though, right?


I've harped about this quite a bit in the past, mostly on the old original BSN.

DAO & ME1 had a similar structure, which I loved. Both games took you through some introductory scenarios until you reached a point where you had your major assignments (DAO dropped you off in Lothering, ME1 made you the Normandy's CO), and were then free to pursue them however you wish. Minor difference with ME1 in that you didn't get the Virmire assignment until you'd completed one of the others (Feros, Noveria, Therum).

Then you have this big, gooey center where you can pursue all of the other content the game offers - explore, do sidequests, whatever. Once you've completed all of the main stuff, you're then funneled back into the beginning of the ending sequence.

ME2 & ME3 both meted out content in groupings, basically pushing you through a specific narrative. ME2 forced the collector missions - when they came up, you could do nothing else.

People like to talk about pacing relative to games, but I find dev-managed pacing undesirable in games.  Deciding which content to pursue and when is a role-play factor for me.

There is an opposing case to be made about mission urgency.  Realistically, the mercs after Archangel aren't going to wait until Shepard joins, and those Grissom students aren't going to stay safe while you run off and do something else, so it isn't perfect, but still preferable for me.

Relative to my original comment about leads changing, a better analogy would involve changes to the original essay assignment.  Plus co-ordination with others.

Like this:
1. You've completed the research when the new teacher assigns a different topic.
2. You've gathered research for that topic and prepared an outline, and another new teacher adds a requirement for footnotes.
3.  You add the footnotes and turn in the outline, but yet another new teacher now wants more content on this sub-topic and less on that one.
4.  You meet with the artist who is responsible for illustrating your essay, and come to some understanding about how it will be done.
5.  You make some progress on writing the essay, but now you have a different artist and need to start that coordination all over again.
Etc.

Even though you started your essay right away, you're left cramming to finish it the night before it's due.

The angry woman on the Hyperion conversation was infuriating, what I wouldn't give to be able to tell her to khs.

Don't know. ME3 was criticized not just for its endings but the overall story.

Well, yeah.  Characters who achieved greater growth and change did it over multiple games.

I think they've created some things they can build on and expand in Andromeda - that's my hope, anyway.

OP Honestly, its a nice gesture. But Bioware's writing *team*. And I'm stating this including both ME3 and Andromeda suffers from a much more fundamental problem that simple 'Constructive criticism' won't fix. Because the narratives of BOTH games are broken at a core level that can't simply be taken with a few minor corrections. Its the entire process for how they build and design their narratives that is extremely flawed.

To boil it down, Bioware's writing, in both the original trilogy and the new Andromeda spinoff suffer from 3 major, uniform problems between both games.

Now, I place the bulk of the blame for this on Mac Walters, who was the lead writer for ME3 and the director for ME:A having positions of incredible influence on both projects where these problems aren't 'simmering under the surface' as they usually did in previous Bioware games, but have evolved into full on monstrosities that burst out from under its skin. But not all the blame can be on him. If the writing team doesn't spot these issues, or tell him/them that they're messed up/wrong because of X, then they're equally to blame.

To summarize, the ME3 and MEA games suffer from:

A) A lack of respect for previously established lore, ergo creating inconsistencies.

ME3: The Reaper's reliance on ambush, surprise, divide and conquer tactics. The amount of time it takes to travel distances in 'normal' FTL. The Citadel's control over the Relay network. ALL of these things were discarded for the third game when they'd been established all the way in the first game. And that's not even getting into the clusterfuck of inconsistencies the Ending itself caused.

Andromeda: The spacefaring Races level of technology during the entirety of the original trilogy. The limits to their capability to build ships over a certain level of 'Tonnage' due to the inherent limits of their Mass effect techology at the time. In short; NONE of the Citadel Races could have even come remotely close to building anything like the Arcs.

A need for Deus Ex Machina solutions to massive problems.

ME3: We really don't need to get into this.

Andromeda: The Remnant. Yes, they get some leeway because its a whole new Galaxy, but the sheer NEED they exibit to form... basically the entirety of the game, to revolve around this mysterious tech is... honestly sad. From every planet to all the species and half the enemies you face, even to the weapon you use to punch through the Archon's fleet at the end... All of them are derived from, literally, a mysterious god from the proverbial machine. With no lore, no established rules or anything they could literally say the Remnant shat gold and pissed rainbows and get away with it. They're literally a 'Deus Ex Machina' generator planted right into the middle of the proverbial sandbox.

This *LIMITS* the story. It doesn't enrich it. The Remnant, their tech and their entire influence DWARF everything else in the story to the point that their 'solution' eventually drives the whole narrative. The story can't revolve around, meeting new species; establishing an empire, uplifting other, less technologically advanced races. No. It has to revolve around Remnant Tech and how it's literally the 'best hope' any of them have.

C) An over indulgence of 'Rule of Cool' rather than coherent sequences.

ME3: Kai Leng...

Seriously. Nothing else needs be said. This guy spent half his screen time flashing stupid poses and taunting you like a fifth grader who stuck glue in your hair. Every single one of his sequences seems to have been written/animated by a 12 year old who spent the weekend watching too much Naruto.

Andromeda: To be fair to this game, there's nothing quite as... horrifying as Kai Leng from ME3 BUT this game doesn't get off scott free either. Between Cora and her 'Asari Huntress' Training, the idea of the ship not spotting the massive cloud of space time warping energy before they literally PLOW into it, how little sense it makes for a ship to 'dock' with another ship while the recipient and all it's technicians are completely unaware of the approaching ship making its way over. No docking clamps, no airlock openings... The Biotic Barriers that can envelop ships and shrug off missiles and ramming fighters... yeah. Like I said. Nothing as horrible as Kai Leng... but the events are there.

D)The handwaving of major sociological or logistical issues for the sake of expediency/forced conflict.

ME3 and Andromeda BOTH have this in SPADES. To the point that I would say that THIS is the biggest of the major flaws with Andromeda.

With ME3 it was the logistics of building a crucible, of hiding massive fleets, of the Salarian's dicking around against the Krogan while the Galaxy is *literally burning down around them* of the Asari not being aware of the Reapers even though they have a Prothean Beacon, with a working Prothean VI in their fucking basement who even has "Indoctrination" radar, of the Citadel and the citizens of that Citadel remaining blissfully unaware of anything even though with the galaxy burning down around them, there should be no food coming in to feed those people, let alone the refugees. Aria, obsessing over an over-hyped mining shaft and Shepard indulging her over inflated sense of self importance for *fuck all* reasons as far as I can tell.

With Andromeda:

The lack of a viable backup plan before you arrive. The fact that 'Most people were to remain in stasis' yet still there were enough in the arc to plot a revolt, fight off said revolt, get exiled (despite the noticeable lack of ships ANYWHERE on the Nexus)and form a considerable fighting force on, not one, but TWO hostile planets.

The Krogan having mutated a cure for the Genophage IN STASIS.

The Construction of an AI, everyone's willingness to accept that AI and effectively put all their chips into the design, functionality, and reliability of that AI despite the mistrust of AI that existed throughout all Citadel Races in the original trilogy.

The fact that, even here, with nowhere to go, no food to farm, no people to exploit or turn to, the 'exile' factions, basically manage to form a 'Pirate empire' similar to the Terminus in less than a year

Sam's ability to interface with advanced alien tech willy nilly.

The Angaran first contact being handwaved.

How little sense it makes for all the arcs to arrive at different points in the galaxy when all of them have to dock with the Nexus ANYWAY in order to safely thaw out and unload their passengers.


All of these are fundamental issues that these games have in abundance. And I'm not even trying to nitpick, this is all off the top of my head from one playthrough.

By comparison, the dragon age franchise suffers from SOME of these at times, but rarely ALL of them at once.

As such, this isn't a simple flaw in the story, this is a flaw in the way the writer WRITES stories as a whole. These problems will not be going away while the same people are on the projects because this is just their 'way' of writing. Either due to time constraints, lack of knowledge or simply a lack of ability. Whatever the reason, unless THAT flaw changes, the person won't change and thus, the next projects will suffer from the same problems.

Bioware NEEDS to get 'better' writers. Or at the very least get better proof-readers/narrative directors. Unfortunately, all accounts from former Bioware workers indicate a culture of borderline 'nepotism' where if you're not part of the 'Old guard' you really don't seem to go anywhere or find yourself promoted to lead roles. So you'll still have the same people regurgitating flawed ideas and methodologies.

glad you bought up DAO. If my memory serves each one of the zones you visited had some connection to the main quest line. Andromeda did this to some extent whereby all the planets minus Elaaden counted...just more...tighter...and side quests which flow from whatever the Main Story and themes are for each zone. Like Voeld as a great example.

I thought you did a good job of presenting what you liked and what you thought was better. You'd probably be best to say in my opinion especially if you feel that ME:A has the best story.

Eh considering tha ME:A story is mixed. It's best to say in my opinion so people won't get angry.

Fair enough but I do think we are getting into Bill Clinton territory here.

Agree completely with the above.