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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 15:04:16 GMT
I love the omni-tool scanner in ME:A and the gameplay mechanics therein. The scanner and the gameplay mechanics behind it are a great addition to the ME franchise and are something that I have wanted to be implemented since ME1. Way back in 2002, Metroid Prime was released on the Nintendo GameCube. Surely many of you here have played the MP trilogy, but for those who sadly haven't, the games contained a "scan visor" mechanic that allowed the player to scan objects within the environment in order to gleam tidbits of information and discern discreet gameplay hints. Important scans were saved as entries in the game's "logbook" section for later and more in-depth review. This system was the primary method of learning and understanding the lore in Metroid Prime as the games are, for those out of the loop, focused on exploration & isolation. The protagonist of the games is a silent one as well. Example of scanning in Metroid Prime:Example of the logbook in Metroid Prime:
Metroid Prime's scan visor & logbook mechanic provided a window into the Metroid universe without any real semblance of typical story telling. Instead of laying it all out on the table, MP made you go out of your way to learn about the universe. This method of story telling, show, not tell, is one that I love and ME:A seemingly took a page out of the MP trilogy playbook. ME:A's scanning mechanic works very similarly to Metroid Prime's. ME:A's scanner allows you to gleam tidbits of information as well as adding important entries to the codex. Admittedly, MP did the scanning mechanic far better than ME:A, in both implementation and execution. Metroid Prime put far more detail into cursory scans as well as stored entries, but I see plenty of room for improvement in future ME:A titles. TL:DRI really hope that the scan mechanic implemented in ME:A makes a return in future ME titles.
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Post by RoboticWater on Aug 17, 2017 16:48:33 GMT
Metroid Prime's scan visor & logbook mechanic provided a window into the Metroid universe without any real semblance of typical story telling. Instead of laying it all out on the table, MP made you go out of your way to learn about the universe. This method of story telling, show, not tell, is one that I love and ME:A seemingly took a page out of the MP trilogy playbook. This is not "show, don't tell" storytelling. In fact, it's quite nearly the opposite. The scanner is designed almost exclusively as a vehicle for exposition, serving up stark prose which offers nothing but facts. At most, it's merely a more diagetic implementation of the Codex, which has usually sat tucked away in the pause menu, segregated from the actual game. The only thing the scanner actually shows is how the Codex gets its information. A welcome addition, but not high on my list of things that Mass Effect really needed to show. As a rule of thumb: any time you're reading a paragraph of text within a visual medium (e.g. film, videogames), that's probably telling, not showing. More importantly, this says nothing about the gameplay implications of the scanner, which, as it happens, are even less "show, don't tell" than its Codex entry functionality. It's yet another implementation of "perfect vision" that AAA games these days love to use. Luckily, the scanner isn't quite as universally helpful as it is in other games, but it's still used like The Witcher's "follow the glowing red line" vision that made investigation quests trivial and boring.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 17:00:49 GMT
Metroid Prime's scan visor & logbook mechanic provided a window into the Metroid universe without any real semblance of typical story telling. Instead of laying it all out on the table, MP made you go out of your way to learn about the universe. This method of story telling, show, not tell, is one that I love and ME:A seemingly took a page out of the MP trilogy playbook. This is not "show, don't tell" storytelling. In fact, it's quite nearly the opposite. The scanner is designed almost exclusively as a vehicle for exposition, serving up stark prose which offers nothing but facts. At most, it's merely a more diagetic implementation of the Codex, which has usually sat tucked away in the pause menu, segregated from the actual game. The only thing the scanner actually shows is how the Codex gets its information. A welcome addition, but not high on my list of things that Mass Effect really needed to show. As a rule of thumb: any time you're reading a paragraph of text within a visual medium (e.g. film, videogames), that's probably telling, not showing. More importantly, this says nothing about the gameplay implications of the scanner, which, as it happens, are even less "show, don't tell" than its Codex entry functionality. It's yet another implementation of "perfect vision" that AAA games these days love to use. Luckily, the scanner isn't quite as universally helpful as it is in other games, but it's still used like The Witcher's "follow the glowing red line" vision that made investigation quests trivial and boring. This is not "show, don't tell" storytelling. In fact, it's quite nearly the opposite.
Huh. I must've misunderstood the concept. Oh well... More importantly, this says nothing about the gameplay implications of the scanner, which, as it happens, are even less "show, don't tell" than its Codex entry functionality. It's yet another implementation of "perfect vision" that AAA games these days love to use. Luckily, the scanner isn't quite as universally helpful as it is in other games, but it's still used like The Witcher's "follow the glowing red line" vision that made investigation quests trivial and boring.I rather enjoyed the scanner mechanic in ME:A, but there is a very specific reason I referenced Metroid Prime. MP uses the scan visor and logbook in such a way that avoids the "perfect vision" dilemma. I would like future ME games to continue on with the omni-tool scanner, but in such a way that is much more akin to MP.
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Post by KaiserShep on Aug 17, 2017 17:06:52 GMT
I enjoy the scanner myself. I wish that more things had information to gather, even to various extremes where you could creep on people to tell their various health issues, just so long as SAM doesn't blurt out "Pathfinder, this man has colon cancer". I guess it could be entertaining if the NPC overhears and reacts.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 17:13:17 GMT
I enjoy the scanner myself. I wish that more things had information to gather, even to various extremes where you could creep on people to tell their various health issues, just so long as SAM doesn't blurt out "Pathfinder, this man has colon cancer". I guess it could be entertaining if the NPC overhears and reacts. Agreed. You should play the Prime Trilogy. Amazing games, tbh.
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Post by luketrevelyan on Aug 17, 2017 17:18:48 GMT
The scanner was ok - better than I expected actually. Although I felt it was a bit overused.
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Post by KaiserShep on Aug 17, 2017 17:23:32 GMT
The scanner was ok - better than I expected actually. Although I felt it was a bit overused. My biggest beef with it is the precise aiming you sometimes need to get a reading. Goddammit omnitool. The footprints are right there! SCAN IT!
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Post by AnDromedary on Aug 17, 2017 17:26:29 GMT
I agree that the scanner was a good addition to the gameplay and while it is by no means perfect yet, I think it really hammered down the point that Ryder was supposed to be scientist/explorer/recon-person first and a soldier second. I also liked that it forced you to holster your weapons between fights. It just makes the entire game experience much less aggressive and makes weapons really only defensive tools when you need them, which I believe is a good thing.
That said, the scanner needs some improvements and further use IMO, in order to really shine as a gameplay addition. Right now, it really has no gameplay beyond "looking around". I'd like to see some mechanics where things are difficult to scan and maybe need some puzzle solving within the scanner to get information out of it. Or you get a database where scanned information is stored and then needs to be combined by the player to reach conclusions. This goes with somethgin that I suggested a couple of times for ME games already here and that is more adventure gameplay. Give us an item inventory and the ability to have real Item puzzles in the game. A combat version of the scanner could also be integrated into the fighting gameplay, e.g. to detect cloaked enemies, tag enemies, hack security systems/synthetics like the remnant, etc. There is a lot of untapped potential there IMO.
So in conclusion, not only do I want to see the scanner return in future ME titles, I want to see it's role expanded, so that future ME games become very diverse gameplay experiences, rather than just the usual fight and dialogue action RPGs.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 17:31:50 GMT
I agree that the scanner was a good addition to the gameplay and while it is by no means perfect yet, I think it really hammered down the point that Ryder was supposed to be scientist/explorer/recon-person first and a soldier second. I also liked that it forced you to holster your weapons between fights. It just makes the entire game experience much less aggressive and makes weapons really only defensive tools when you need them, which I believe is a good thing. That said, the scanner needs some improvements and further use IMO, in order to really shine as a gameplay addition. Right now, it really has no gameplay beyond "looking around". I'd like to see some mechanics where things are difficult to scan and maybe need some puzzle solving within the scanner to get information out of it. Or you get a database where scanned information is stored and then needs to be combined by the player to reach conclusions. This goes with somethgin that I suggested a couple of times for ME games already here and that is more adventure gameplay. Give us an item inventory and the ability to have real Item puzzles in the game. A combat version of the scanner could also be integrated into the fighting gameplay, e.g. to detect cloaked enemies, tag enemies, hack security systems/synthetics like the remnant, etc. There is a lot of untapped potential there IMO. So in conclusion, not only do I want to see the scanner return in future ME titles, I want to see it's role expanded, so that future ME games become very diverse gameplay experiences, rather than just the usual fight and dialogue action RPGs. I think that if BW were to follow Metroid Prime's example, then it would be damn near perfect.
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Post by AnDromedary on Aug 17, 2017 17:39:59 GMT
I think that if BW were to follow Metroid Prime's example, then it would be damn near perfect. Never played MP but what you described in the OP sounds pretty good. I'd take it a step further though. In that database, it would be cool if - as player - you can combine different bits of information and use them in the game again. Have you played the Blade Runner adventure game, that Westwood made in the early 2000s? I am thinking gameplay like that. In there, you found hints and evidence in your investigations and kept them in a data base, almost like items that you could combine to draw conclusions (you could also mess up and draw the wrong conclusions). This would then allow you new dialogue options with NPCs, etc. and ultimately shape the plot. I am not necessarily suggesting ME take it that far but there are elements in this which I think would work super well in an ME game, especially the whole thing that scanning and combing data could give you alternative dialogue options with NPCs and maybe quest outcomes. Of course, this would also necessitate that you only get hints from the environment and the scanner and that you need to figure a lot of stuff out on your own. Right now, what annoys me a little about the scanning is that it's just "point and click there" and then SAM will hand you all the relevant information, including your next waypoint, on a silver platter. It would be much more rewarding to get hints and figure more stuff out by myself as the player. Example: Ryder finds a body of a murder victim somewhere. Scanner indicates that the body is coated in traces of eezo dust. As you explore the planet further, you find a cave that smugglers used to store eezo and one container broke. As you scan, SAM might tell you that there is a high concentration of eezo dust in the air in this cave. As the player, you now have enough info to know that you should probably take a closer look at the place to find the next hint, etc. No waypoints, no "I have added the exact instructions to your journal", let us do the actual work.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 17:44:39 GMT
I think that if BW were to follow Metroid Prime's example, then it would be damn near perfect. Never played MP but what you described in the OP sounds pretty good. I'd take it a step further though. In that database, it would be cool if - as player - you can combine different bits of information and use them in the game again. Have you played the Blade Runner adventure game, that Westwood made in the early 2000s? I am thinking gameplay like that. In there, you found hints and evidence in your investigations and kept them in a data base, almost like items that you could combine to draw conclusions (you could also mess up and draw the wrong conclusions). This would then allow you new dialogue options with NPCs, etc. and ultimately shape the plot. I am not necessarily suggesting ME take it that far but there are elements in this which I think would work super well in an ME game, especially the whole thing that scanning and combing data could give you alternative dialogue options with NPCs and maybe quest outcomes. I never played Blade Runner, but the Prime Trilogy would frequently require you to piece bits and parts of information together in order to solve puzzles and advance. I know that that isn't a direct mechanic reflected in game, but the concept seems very similar to me. Also, starting to sound like a broken record here, but I highly recommend the Prime Trilogy.
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 17, 2017 20:02:53 GMT
The scanner was ok - better than I expected actually. Although I felt it was a bit overused. My biggest beef with it is the precise aiming you sometimes need to get a reading. Goddammit omnitool. The footprints are right there! SCAN IT! Lol yeah that can be a bit of a pain. I love the scanner especially now. www.nexusmods.com/masseffectandromeda/mods/360/?
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Post by kino on Aug 17, 2017 20:13:37 GMT
Yeah, the scanning mechanic seems to have gotten popular in recent games, but what I enjoy about the ME:A scanner is the way that you can pick up research points while using it as well as identifying objects.
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Post by bshep on Aug 17, 2017 23:15:58 GMT
I liked the scanner. I just wish they had made the effort to put the thing you scan in the codex, real shame none of those wildlife and vehicles (ships only got some generic entry but no specific one for several types encountered in the game) got a entry.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 23:28:47 GMT
Would be cool if they put everything you scanned into a codex entry to read later.
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Post by Eleonora on Aug 18, 2017 14:11:57 GMT
Have a like for mentioning Metroid Prime, OP. One of my favorite gaming series (with Mass Effect) that's still amazing even after 10 years.
I liked the scanner in Andromeda as a refreshing gameplay element, though it wasn't as fun as the scanner in Metroid Prime. Getting 100% scans in that game was great, but I can't imagine doing the same in Andromeda.
Can't wait for Prime 4 ✨
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Post by LogicGunn on Aug 18, 2017 15:31:46 GMT
I love the scanner, I really enjoyed what it brought to the game play. The only thing is I found myself scanning too often because I didn't want to miss anything. I hope its improved and expanded on in the next game.
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 18, 2017 15:58:18 GMT
I love the scanner, I really enjoyed what it brought to the game play. The only thing is I found myself scanning too often because I didn't want to miss anything. I hope its improved and expanded on in the next game. lol yeah same here especially when ( press g) pops up. I'm like " oooo can't miss that random thingy!"😂
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