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Post by shinobiwan on Aug 17, 2017 21:33:53 GMT
I wanted to make a thread collecting thoughts on the drip-feeding model vs the pack model for releasing content. It's probably too late to change anything for MEA, but hopefully we can have an orderly discussion and collect the pros and cons in a focused thread rather than having it come up as a side issue in random threads.
As an initial matter, the primary argument for drip-fed content I've seen is that DLC packs fragment the playerbase because not everyone downloads them. The answer to that problem is pretty clean: issue a compatibility patch and require its download before going online. That solves the problem completely (no idea why they didn't do that for ME3 - maybe someone has some insight on that).
Below are the mai reasons in my view why drip-feeding didn't work in MEA:
*It fails to incentivize people to buy packs. Starting right off the bat with the elephant in the room. It's no secret that the reason BW releases MP content (for free) is to keep people playing and buying packs. That worked exceptionally well in ME3 because when they released DLC packs, they would contain enough content that a little cash had a high likelihood of unlocking something new. That got me spending cash regularly each time a new pack dropped. By contrast, releasing one kit at a time makes it unlikely the player will unlock the new content when it drops with cash, making it unlikely they will ever take plunge or start playing again - especially when that new content is UR.
It's well settled at this point that the certainty of a result had a larger effect on behavior than it should. For example, the perceived likelihood of getting caught and punished has a larger effect on criminal deterrence than it should compared to the magnitude of the punishment. For example, if you convince a would-be criminal is he is five times more likely to be caught and punished for shanking someone, he's less likely to do it than he would if you simply increasing the penalty from five years to twenty five in prison, all else equal. The drip-feed model works the opposite of this effect (incentivizing people to buy packs) even if it were mathematically equivalent.
*Drip feeding forces players to focus on content they might not like instead of selecting content they like from a pool. Games offer choices because people have preferences that don't always align. Seems uncontroversial. When you release content in a pack, it allows the player to pick out the stuff he likes and ignore the stuff he doesn't like for a good long while. The result is the player is more likely to view the content as good. In a drip-fed model though, the content releases cause the player to focus on individual pieces of content at a time, which the player may not like, which increases the likelihood that the player deems the content releases to be unsatisfactory. Again, this is true even if the content releases are mathematically equivalent over the entire period because of the way human attention works.
*Drip-feeding causes concern if the content releases aren't outpacing an earlier entry in the series. Again, even if the content releases are equivalent over the period, releasing them slowly over time instead of in packs as in a previous entry in the series suggests to the player, whether rightly or not, that the content provider is trying to avoid a direct comparison to the previous entry. This is especially problematic because players generally expect sequels to outpace previous entries.
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Post by angrybobh on Aug 17, 2017 22:56:11 GMT
I was thinking of making a thread about the exact same thing. I agree with most of your post, especially with the failing to incentivize. I'm the type of player that actually like to earn my rewards than just buy them outright but, with DLC, I wanted to give money to the game. Not to get the new stuff right away. Not even to put a dent in the increased loot pool. I wanted to give money, as a reward, to the company that was hard at work making my fun even better. It feels different with the drip and as a result I have never given money to Bioware/EA for MEA other than the initial cost of the game. The drip feed might have worked better if it was more often and the new stuff was unique but, I don't think even that would have worked.
The last point you made about outpacing previous entries is true but not quite for this game. The content released accumulates to roughly equal the content over time to ME3 but, the drip feed makes it seem like far less. The feeling about content release quantity (and quality but thats another subject) is important for a company to capture. Bioware seems to have looked at this and decided to go a complete opposite approach for whatever reason. Maybe we were an experiment for the destiny ripoff anthem model. Maybe they thought that it is easier to drip out content and it wouldn't have any effect on the players(I believe this is more likely). Whoever was in charge of this decision needs to rethink their line of work, this one does not suit them.
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Post by Pearl on Aug 17, 2017 23:05:53 GMT
Drip-fed content is inherently less interesting than spaced-out DLC releases. Why should I get excited about this one new character/weapon that I'm probably not going to use, when there's something cooler that's ready to go, but is being artificially held back?
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Post by ProbeAway on Aug 17, 2017 23:32:15 GMT
Some good points, although the first point applies more to people who have already unlocked/maxed most of their manifest. For those still hoping to unlock or rank up vanilla weapons and characters a big content dump (*cough* reskins *cough*) is actually a disincentive to buy packs. All of the additional mods and equipment they released in ME3 put me off a bit (although I loved the new maps and enemies).
I'd also add a fourth point: DLC style releases give new players a reason to join and give former players a reason to return. This game really needs something significant periodically to engage or re-engage players. Drip feeding one character or weapon at a time doesn't give players anything fresh to ignite interest.
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Post by buffharrier on Aug 17, 2017 23:51:41 GMT
I remember playing ME3 for hours and hours. Getting a bit bored and forgetting about it then a lot of DLC comes at once and i'm right back in for another few weeks.
I haven't played ME:A in a few weeks now. I will come back to it when there's a bit more new content. In fairness I was happy to see a lot of new maps, but UNIQUE chars and weapons are the priority. You can give us maps of areas straight from campaign (makes sense with the size of the areas), I'm just worried new chars will be mostly reskins and powers we've already seen.
Honestly; At this stage I wouldn't be against paid DLC if it guaranteed a significant update.
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RonnieBlastoff
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Post by RonnieBlastoff on Aug 17, 2017 23:52:07 GMT
I don't think drip feeding is the issue with MEA. I believe the idea is failing because other things are failing which causes the idea to look like crap. Take this instance, replace the drip feeding idea with a career paycheck.
You get payed $2857 every 2 weeks You get payed $20,000 every 3 months
Paycheck is the same, but in reality which would you choose?
This idea works fine, but if you replaced money... with :poop: crap... literally bags of :poop: it looks like MEAMP
You get to play with :poop: every 2 weeks You get to play with :poop: :poop: :poop: every 3 months
The game at its core is broken, and trying to expand and add on broken things eventually everything will fall apart.
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Post by buffharrier on Aug 18, 2017 0:02:53 GMT
I don't think drip feeding is the issue with MEA. I believe the idea is failing because other things are failing which causes the idea to look like crap. Take this instance, replace the drip feeding idea with a career paycheck. You get payed $2857 every 2 weeks You get payed $20,000 every 3 months Paycheck is the same, but in reality which would you choose? This idea works fine, but if you replaced money... with :poop: crap... literally bags of :poop: it looks like MEAMP You get to play with :poop: every 2 weeks You get to play with :poop: :poop: :poop: every 3 months The game at its core is broken, and trying to expand and add on broken things eventually everything will fall apart. that's actually a really good paycheck.
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Post by Transcended One on Aug 18, 2017 4:45:39 GMT
I would have liked to see DLC-packs too over the current method of one per month. I really don't understand that back in the day so many people were apparently too stupid to realize that in able to play ME3MP they needed to get all the (FREE!) DLC-content (this was one of the reasons given by BW for this decision, the other one was that people would just play one of the new kits over and over and don't give the others a chance, which is poor reasoning...)
Apparently BW has difficulties adding new powers, while it was easier in ME3, which might be another reason. New maps should be easier relatively.
So MAYBE IF a SP-DLC gets released we're going to see more new powers and races which should be 'good' for MP in the end...
Anyway I still have a lot of fun with the multiplayer, so as long as BW keeps supporting it more or less I'll be playing...
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Post by N7Mith on Aug 18, 2017 5:19:01 GMT
The game has (had) too many issues to compensate for with dripfeeding. It's not one of the issues that drove people away, but it sure isn't enough to pull them back in.
Fully packed dlc/updates could've made a difference, if only for the extra attention they could've given to fixes between these dlc's.
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Post by JRandall0308 on Aug 18, 2017 12:43:42 GMT
Point the first: only Bioware has the metrics to show how number of players has fluctuated over time, both in the ME3 days and in the MEA days. Everything we say it about it is pure speculation.
Point the second: there is an argument to be made in favor of frequent, small releases of content (the Agile-style / MVP argument) rather that infrequent, larger releases. Frequent / Small is less risky, less expensive, delivers value to the customer more frequently, captures revenue more frequently, and accelerates the rapid feedback loop that you want to get going in product development.
Point the third: everyone reading and posting here is in the tiny minority of players with atypical behaviors and motivations. The so-called 'drip feed' of content is designed to appeal to the large, moderately invested playerbase (that we can denigrate as 'filthy casuals'), and not to the weirdo fanatics who devote hours of their day to talking about the game on a messageboard (*cough* looking at self in mirror *cough*) .
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Post by Pounce de León on Aug 18, 2017 14:41:21 GMT
The gamne has worse isuues than the release method of additional content.
1. Fucking slow levelling. Deterrent for playing variety of characters. I think I've only like 5 chars at level 20.
2. Fucking dogs and stupid gameplay changes. Patch 1.09 introduced the game going full Benny Hill. Suddenly, I couldn't just pick an interesting character kit in pugs - no it had to be a fucking barricade kit, because otherwise the match was over after 30 seconds of objective.
3. Hit registration
4. Gunplay sucks
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Post by Terminator Force on Aug 18, 2017 14:47:28 GMT
I've retired and traded my game copy. Drip feed, thou has failed me.
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Post by guanxi on Aug 18, 2017 14:57:48 GMT
It's not the format that's the problem it's the sheer lack of content by comparison. We've had about 1 DLCs worth of content stretched over 5+ months:
Characters (6): Gladiator Scrapper Exemplar Agent Architect Batguard
Guns (5): Ruzad Ghost Inferno Harpoon Shorty
Maps (4) Aqua Paradox Nimbus Vertigo
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Post by unclemonster on Aug 18, 2017 17:26:21 GMT
It's not the format that's the problem it's the sheer lack of content by comparison. We've had about 1 DLCs worth of content stretched over 5+ months: Characters (6): Gladiator Scrapper Exemplar Agent Architect Batguard Guns (5): Ruzad Ghost Inferno Harpoon Shorty Maps (4) Aqua Paradox Nimbus Vertigo you are forgetting that awesome Reegar Carbine that was added! if the drip feed was doubled in content, all would be well. if they were making a Quarian Ark DLC, we would get Drell, Quarian, and Volus and all would be well...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2017 17:32:30 GMT
I like getting a map here, a gun there, and a character yet in another week. It makes me feel that something is going on, and there is new stuff! I really dislike the binary approach of a huge drop that may or may not come. I've never considered buying packs, and never would, b/c it will make absolutely no difference for my level of play.
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Post by Beerfish on Aug 18, 2017 19:00:39 GMT
I think the fragmented player base is horse hockey as long as the game company are not total dumbasses.
Have a clear message on on of the menu screens or a tool tip re the need to have the same free dlc level Have a easy to get to place to be contacted (company game forums) if people are having trouble connecting
All I know is that for me the trickle has had the exact opposite effect to what they had hoped. For ME3MP a number of times I paid cash for whatever they were selling and it had nothing to do with me wanting to improve the manifest. I paid cash after a good worth while DLC was released that had enough content (classes, weapons, maps) that I thought it worth while to reward or support for future dlc.
I've spent no ancillary money on MEAMP at all.
The other factor that comes into place for me is stability and bugs. If I get annoyed enough with bugs and disconnects no cash for you.
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Post by 3rdpig on Aug 18, 2017 21:07:38 GMT
I'm ok with the drip feed, it's not all that exciting but it's something new regularly to spark interest, even if it's only momentary.
What I'm not OK with was the dump of variant weapons and the veteran ranks. This ruins the drip feed as far as I'm concerned. 20-40 new cards for every drip is not fun, interesting or exciting. It's tedious and annoying.
If it wasn't for the fact that games I can get my FiL to play with me are so few and far between I'd have dumped this POS, both single and multiplayer, weeks ago.
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