Legenlorn
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legenlorn
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Post by Legenlorn on Sept 23, 2016 9:31:54 GMT
Hi everyone,
I am planning on building a PC in the coming months, but I find it hard to choose the parts based on the info I found on the net. Which is why I decided to ask the good people of BSN (as this is the only forum I found to be my "gamer world home")
Now I suppose some basic info is required.
First off I plan to use my pc for gaming. No streaming, no graphics stuff. Just gaming. I want it to handle the games on high. Future games as well. (Cyberpunk 2077, next DA and the secret IP, and possibly TES 6 when it comes out).
Reading through the articles on the net I found that many sites pick an i7 cpu (whereas I heard that for gaming a i5 is enough). Also, it seems that nVidia is more favored for gaming than AMD. Could someone shed some light on the issue as well as the freesync vs gsync?
The price isn't that important right now but it would help if the parts would be just right and I wouldn't be paying for something I would not be using (ex. i7 cpu which is for more than gaming, motherboards with lots of extra options which I don't understand and will not be using but are obviously more expensive)
If someone could give me the rundown of what is needed, why it is better than the other (ex FX480/gtx1070/gtx1080, gigabyte vs asus vs msi and so on, ) I would be very grateful.
Also I heard that AMD is going to release their new CPUs so if that can be taken into account, that would be great.
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crusty
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Post by crusty on Sept 23, 2016 10:59:12 GMT
What resolution would you want to play at? I know budget isn't important right now, but it's also a major consideration too. Generally speaking though, a sufficiently clocked i5 (even going as far back as the i5 2500k) will not hamper your gaming experience in the least. An i7 is not necessarily at all unless you plan to do other things with the PC.
As for AMD/Nvidia, the RX 480 from AMD is midrange cards, whereas NVidia's equivalent is the GTX 1060. Nvidia currently have the higher end GTX 1070 and GTX 1080, whereas AMD have yet to release their equivalents. It's hard to imagine that the RX 480/GTX 1060 would be seriously challenged on high (not max/ultra) settings at 1080p for the next year or two. But going for the GTX 1070 now that the price is a bit lower isn't a bad idea either if you want the option to move to 1440p gaming, or 60+Hz 1080p gaming. With some luck, you could also score a deal on end of life last gen cards that will carry you for longer than the current midrange crop. Look for prices and sales on the likes of the R9 Fury/R9 Fury X/R9 Nano, and the GTX 980 Ti.
A few months ago, I scored an R9 Nano for the same price as a GTX 1060, despite it performing up to 30% faster in the resolution I'm using it for. So yeah, it's vitally important to know your desired resolution and budget.
As for AMD CPUs, they aren't slated to come out until next year. So if you're planning on buying soon, I wouldn't really consider them. I suspect that IPC wise, they will be around the Sandy Bridge to Ivy Bridge level. Meaning that clock for clock, they will be around 15-20% slower than what Intel currently has out. That doesn't necessarily translate to 15-20% less gaming performance though. In fact in many cases, the difference is 5-10% at most. And then you overclock and the difference is gone altogether. Zen's advantage will come with the extra cores. As previously stated, a Sandy Bridge level CPU isn't going to bottleneck gaming systems anyway, but the extra cores will come in handy for productivity tasks like movie editing, rendering, streaming and the like. The thing is, because they'll share many features that the current Intel platforms have (USB 3.1, DDR4 Memory, etc), then there's no point taking AMD's upcoming Zen CPUs into consideration until they actually come out. They probably won't be as good as Intel's CPUs for gaming, but won't hold you back to any significant degree either. You won't notice the difference in playability. And since you are looking specifically for gaming performance, the only relevance for AMD Zen is price for performance ratio for the platform. Which isn't something we'll know until closer to release.
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Legenlorn
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legenlorn
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Post by Legenlorn on Sept 23, 2016 14:59:23 GMT
What resolution would you want to play at? I know budget isn't important right now, but it's also a major consideration too. Generally speaking though, a sufficiently clocked i5 (even going as far back as the i5 2500k) will not hamper your gaming experience in the least. An i7 is not necessarily at all unless you plan to do other things with the PC. As for AMD/Nvidia, the RX 480 from AMD is midrange cards, whereas NVidia's equivalent is the GTX 1060. Nvidia currently have the higher end GTX 1070 and GTX 1080, whereas AMD have yet to release their equivalents. It's hard to imagine that the RX 480/GTX 1060 would be seriously challenged on high (not max/ultra) settings at 1080p for the next year or two. But going for the GTX 1070 now that the price is a bit lower isn't a bad idea either if you want the option to move to 1440p gaming, or 60+Hz 1080p gaming. With some luck, you could also score a deal on end of life last gen cards that will carry you for longer than the current midrange crop. Look for prices and sales on the likes of the R9 Fury/R9 Fury X/R9 Nano, and the GTX 980 Ti. A few months ago, I scored an R9 Nano for the same price as a GTX 1060, despite it performing up to 30% faster in the resolution I'm using it for. So yeah, it's vitally important to know your desired resolution and budget. As for AMD CPUs, they aren't slated to come out until next year. So if you're planning on buying soon, I wouldn't really consider them. I suspect that IPC wise, they will be around the Sandy Bridge to Ivy Bridge level. Meaning that clock for clock, they will be around 15-20% slower than what Intel currently has out. That doesn't necessarily translate to 15-20% less gaming performance though. In fact in many cases, the difference is 5-10% at most. And then you overclock and the difference is gone altogether. Zen's advantage will come with the extra cores. As previously stated, a Sandy Bridge level CPU isn't going to bottleneck gaming systems anyway, but the extra cores will come in handy for productivity tasks like movie editing, rendering, streaming and the like. The thing is, because they'll share many features that the current Intel platforms have (USB 3.1, DDR4 Memory, etc), then there's no point taking AMD's upcoming Zen CPUs into consideration until they actually come out. They probably won't be as good as Intel's CPUs for gaming, but won't hold you back to any significant degree either. You won't notice the difference in playability. And since you are looking specifically for gaming performance, the only relevance for AMD Zen is price for performance ratio for the platform. Which isn't something we'll know until closer to release. right now I play at 1920x1080 but will probably want to go get a 2560 x 1440 Benq monitor (heard they have good products). Btw, would it be best to get a freesync monitor or a gsync if I would be going with an nvidia gpu? As for the budget I think 1500$. I'm from Poland so I converted the amount I'm thinking of paying to USD. Does that help?
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razrblck ☯
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Post by razrblck ☯ on Sept 23, 2016 16:33:59 GMT
G-Sync seems to technically be the better solution of the two, providing smoother response at lower framerates (below 60fps). This is, though, going to be a very subjective issue that depends on what you play, how you play, what your hardware is capable of and if smoothness issues will bother you. That kind of choice comes at a huge price premium, as G-Sync monitors are quite expensive compared to Freesync alternatives. Your budget is quite high, but how much you can spend on a monitor depends on how much you spend on everything else. 1440p gaming is not too demanding on the latest hardware, and you can get by for a few years with a current gen Core i5 and a GTX 1070 easily. As crusty said we will have to wait for AMD's high end to have the full picture. There are plenty of rumors and some hype, but we should wait and see. The RX480 was made out to be a GTX 1080 killer and it turned out to be not even close, but a RX490 might compete with the GTX 1070 and provide really good 1440p performance at a lower price point (if by that time nVidia hasn't slashed prices in preparation for Volta). If you can wait until Christmas, I strongly suggest that. We will probably hear more from AMD and you will certainly be able to get better prices during sales.
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Legenlorn
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Post by Legenlorn on Sept 26, 2016 20:56:01 GMT
With all the speculation on AMD's Vega in Q1 2017 and RX 490 which might be a VEGA card or a dual polaris card (in which case it might come out before the end of 2016) I think it is a good idea to wait a bit longer Andromeda isn't coming out before Christmas so there is time. Also, is AMD's Vulcan going to be used in more games making AMD ZEN and GPUs a more preferable pick for future games or is it hard to say yet?
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Sept 26, 2016 21:06:28 GMT
Maybe 1060 is good enough...
I knew for my 20" 1600*900 monitor, GTX 760 is more than enough!
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Post by KingTony on Sept 26, 2016 21:19:54 GMT
Well, you could do what I did, just buy a shitty desktop and slap a low-mid range graphics card in there and roll out. I expected to have to do more than that, but I've yet to come across something I wanted to play but couldn't...
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BadgerladDK
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Post by BadgerladDK on Sept 26, 2016 22:27:24 GMT
www.logicalincrements.com is a great starting point. Check out their guides and their various build suggestions. Aside from covering a variety in budgets, they also often use local prices and dealers. And everything in their builds is compatible so you don't end up with ram too tall for your heatsink's clearance etc.
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Post by goishen on Sept 26, 2016 23:00:08 GMT
I have an AMD 8370, 16 gigs of RAM, an R9 290 (with 8 gigs of RAM), and there's nothing that I can't play on high at 1920 x 1080.
Intel and nVidia are in a race with themselves at this point, struggling to keep Moore's Law still alive and applicable. Find an old CPU (within the past 5 years), slap a high end graphics card in there (the best one that you can afford) and it'll be golden. Seeing as how the CPU doesn't bottleneck performance whatsoever anymore, or if it does, very slightly. It's all the GPU.
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crusty
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Post by crusty on Sept 26, 2016 23:05:36 GMT
With all the speculation on AMD's Vega in Q1 2017 and RX 490 which might be a VEGA card or a dual polaris card (in which case it might come out before the end of 2016) I think it is a good idea to wait a bit longer Andromeda isn't coming out before Christmas so there is time. Also, is AMD's Vulcan going to be used in more games making AMD ZEN and GPUs a more preferable pick for future games or is it hard to say yet? DX12 will have higher adoption than Vulkan but both will give AMD large advantages over Nvidia relatively speaking. As for AMD Zen and Vega, worry about those when they come out. You could literally pop in a second hand Intel 2600k from 2011 and a second hand R9 290x from 2013, give both a light OC and be okay for most games 1080p 60 fps high to ultra settings right now.
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razrblck ☯
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Post by razrblck ☯ on Sept 27, 2016 16:26:25 GMT
With all the speculation on AMD's Vega in Q1 2017 and RX 490 which might be a VEGA card or a dual polaris card (in which case it might come out before the end of 2016) I think it is a good idea to wait a bit longer Andromeda isn't coming out before Christmas so there is time. Also, is AMD's Vulcan going to be used in more games making AMD ZEN and GPUs a more preferable pick for future games or is it hard to say yet? DX12 will have higher adoption than Vulkan but both will give AMD large advantages over Nvidia relatively speaking. As for AMD Zen and Vega, worry about those when they come out. You could literally pop in a second hand Intel 2600k from 2011 and a second hand R9 290x from 2013, give both a light OC and be okay for most games 1080p 60 fps high to ultra settings right now. In one of the usual ramblings post over at the Video Card section on hardforum.com someone pointed out (and backed it up with links) that current DX12 and Vulkan performance isn't what it was made out to be in the reviews. Some points below have also been taken from other threads on the same forum. Unfortunately the search function is currently disabled because they are performing maintenance, so I can't post direct links. Here are the key points: - The in game benchmarks are usually not representative of actual gameplay performance on most new titles, especially ones that have implemented DX12 and Vulkan support this year;
- Because of point n.1, repeating benchmark tests with updated drivers as well shows that actual gameplay performance under DX12 and Vulkan is a lot closer between AMD and nVidia cards
- In particular the actual performance difference between a RX480 8GB and a GTX1060 6GB is minimal at best, mostly in favor of nVidia with exceptions for Ashes of the Singularity and DOOM in favor of AMD;
- Fury cards do get a very big boost but they can't still compete with GTX1070 and GTX1080;
- The often touted advantage of two RX480s in Crossfire (price/performance advantage) over a GTX1080 is moot because DX12 and Vulkan titles need to explicitly support multiple cards in one of the many available modes, which currently they do not since multi-gpu gaming is a niche segment and developers don't have the resources to do it;
- Multi-gpu support is only available in DX11 and OpenGL modes, where nVidia has a definite performance advantage.
- It's still too early to be sure of anyone's dominance in DX12 and Vulkan titles, as no architecture from both side has been developed with those APIs in mind (since they are very very young, with Vulkan being finalized in Feb of this year);
- Keeping in mind n.3 we must also consider that to this date there are no true, native DX12 or Vulkan titles; all games released to this point also support DX11/OpenGL and/or had new APIs bolted on after launch, which means no game engine currently available is actually designed and optimized for low level APIs.
The biggest advantage that we can currently see is actually in better hardware utilization (mostly on the CPU side, making older CPUs a bit more performing in certain scenarios). The truth is that new APIs are a bit underwhelming, mainly because of development issues and their relatively young age, but they sure are promising for the future provided there is adequate support from game developers.
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