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Post by DoctorFox on Sept 1, 2017 14:23:27 GMT
Instead of being tied down to one protagonist for the entire story, what if you could switch to playing as one of your squad mates at any given time?
Think about it, every squad member has his/her own story/backstory/agenda. When you switch to a new character you'd have an entirely different set of objectives and missions to complete instead of a ton of fetch quests.
Each character would have a different set of 5 abilities (like in multiplayer). The SP would teach you how to play as an Adept/Soldier/infiltrator/Vanguard etc etc. You'd also be able to see from every squad mate's perspective which would give you a unique sense of immersion for each one. The game could even jump you into flashback missions from character's pasts instead of simply talking about them in conversation. Live the game through their eyes.
I believe this would make each squad mate have more purpose rather than have them as your sidekicks.
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Hawke
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Post by Hawke on Sept 1, 2017 14:34:24 GMT
Had that in Final Fantasy XIII and Nier: Automata. Disliked much. I generally prefer to fully control the protagonist and to have control over the other team members in combat. Though, Pillars of Eternity allowed to create the whole party manually and it was probably the best implementation of the multiple-protagonists mechanic I've seen. You'd also be able to see from every squad mate's perspective which would give you a unique sense of immersion for each one. It'd be the opposite for me - immersion-breaking. I suppose, the idea is interesting (otherwise, it wouldn't be used in the games, mentioned above), but unsuitable for ME.
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Post by Serza on Sept 1, 2017 14:42:50 GMT
So basically like GTAV, the trainwreck GTA.
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DoctorFox
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Post by DoctorFox on Sept 1, 2017 14:53:42 GMT
Had that in Final Fantasy XIII and Nier: Automata. Disliked much. I generally prefer to fully control the protagonist and to have control over the other team members in combat. Though, Pillars of Eternity allowed to create the whole party manually and it was probably the best implementation of the multiple-protagonists mechanic I've seen. You'd also be able to see from every squad mate's perspective which would give you a unique sense of immersion for each one. It'd be the opposite for me - immersion-breaking. I suppose, the idea is interesting (otherwise, it wouldn't be used in the games, mentioned above), but unsuitable for ME. What made me think this would be healthy for ME is because Andromeda played too safe. They basically didn't break much new ground and played safe far too often which backfired. Gameplay and story dynamics went stale too fast as a result. Playing as your squad mates from time to time would give the player a deeper connection to each character and what they're thinking/feeling. Also being able to switch from Scott to Sara or vice versa (even just that one time) felt kinda cool. Like a breath of fresh air. Look at all the Marvel movies. They're trying to give each super hero their own solo movie so that the audience gets a good handle on the importance of each character. Then when they come together in the Avengers, there's a plethora of in-jokes, memes and serious stuff like where each character is coming from and their unique angle - you understand better why they react to things the way they do. Think of all the successful sci if shows. Star Trek, Stargate, Fringe, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Farscape, Battlestar Galactica, Babylon 5. All those shows don't have you follow just one protagonist. Each major crew member gets episodes where they are the centre of the show and we're seeing most of the show through a certain character's eyes. Then in later episodes, a different character takes the spotlight.
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Post by Pounce de León on Sept 1, 2017 15:27:22 GMT
Worked pretty well in Maniac Mansion 2
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Post by traks on Sept 1, 2017 15:40:59 GMT
Nah, not in Mass Effect, where I want to play with one protagonist through one big story over multiple games.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Sept 1, 2017 15:50:40 GMT
Wouldn't mind this approach myself however, this will take away from people's own created protagonist. There'd be less emphasis on their own character so you'd have some convincing to do when it comes to changing characters over and over mid game.
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DoctorFox
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Post by DoctorFox on Sept 1, 2017 16:59:38 GMT
Wouldn't mind this approach myself however, this will take away from people's own created protagonist. There'd be less emphasis on their own character so you'd have some convincing to do when it comes to changing characters over and over mid game. Fair enough. Maybe we could just play as each squad mate once for their backstory mission . Then as the main protagonist for each loyalty mission and the rest of the game.
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 1, 2017 18:00:53 GMT
Not interested. One of the things I truly loved about the MET was the ability to follow Shepard through all the games. It's at least part of the reason I like this game over just about any other I've ever played.
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Post by saberchic on Sept 1, 2017 18:21:54 GMT
I don't like the idea. One of the best things about these games is the ability to create your own character and see how they react in this world, and when you have completely pre-defined characters that you jump around on, there's no fun there. Also, I'm not fond of some of the roles like soldier and infiltrator; I prefer different play styles, so then I'd be cut out of story for not playing as someone simply because I'm not fond of a certain role, and that would suck.
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Post by Vall on Sept 1, 2017 22:56:17 GMT
Had that in Final Fantasy XIII and Nier: Automata. Disliked much. I generally prefer to fully control the protagonist and to have control over the other team members in combat. Though, Pillars of Eternity allowed to create the whole party manually and it was probably the best implementation of the multiple-protagonists mechanic I've seen. It'd be the opposite for me - immersion-breaking. I suppose, the idea is interesting (otherwise, it wouldn't be used in the games, mentioned above), but unsuitable for ME. What made me think this would be healthy for ME is because Andromeda played too safe. They basically didn't break much new ground and played safe far too often which backfired. Gameplay and story dynamics went stale too fast as a result. Playing as your squad mates from time to time would give the player a deeper connection to each character and what they're thinking/feeling. Also being able to switch from Scott to Sara or vice versa (even just that one time) felt kinda cool. Like a breath of fresh air. Look at all the Marvel movies. They're trying to give each super hero their own solo movie so that the audience gets a good handle on the importance of each character. Then when they come together in the Avengers, there's a plethora of in-jokes, memes and serious stuff like where each character is coming from and their unique angle - you understand better why they react to things the way they do. Think of all the successful sci if shows. Star Trek, Stargate, Fringe, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Farscape, Battlestar Galactica, Babylon 5. All those shows don't have you follow just one protagonist. Each major crew member gets episodes where they are the centre of the show and we're seeing most of the show through a certain character's eyes. Then in later episodes, a different character takes the spotlight. Difference between TV shows or movies and what Bioware games do is that, in those you just follow those characters, watch what they're doing while they are still characters disconnected from you. Picard will always be Picard. That also goes for games like Nier Automata or GTA5, you don't really impact what those characters do. In Bioware games on the other hand, the protagonist is essentially you. A much cooler you with limited options that is called Ryder, or Shepard, or Hawke, but you nonetheless. You make their choices, you mold their character either in your own image or the way you want. You choose what you want your protagonist to look like and then you're hurled into this world to make your mark on it. It's also part of why Shepard is such a beloved character, you got to be them for 3 games, forming friendship and romances with your crew and it was probably more intimate than it could be if the story was told in any other way. I don't think Mordin's or Legion's death would've had the impact it had if you weren't in Shepard's shoes, surviving a suicide mission together and then seeing them sacrifice themselves. This is also why playing The Witcher doesn't have the same impact as playing Mass Effect or Dragon Age has for me. I read the books from Sapkowski long before I ever heard about the games, and I can't divorce game Geralt from book Geralt so it isn't really me making choices there but more thinking what would Geralt do in this situation. This is not me saying that's bad, it's just not what I look for in a Bioware, or Bioware-like game. So where you might see staying "safe", I see staying true to the core of what makes a Bioware game. And this is also what makes me so uninterested in Anthem because so far, it looks like and entity that is completely separate from the kind of games I got to know and fell in love with (and wish there was more of). There is one way I could see this working, at least partially though. They could borrow an idea the first Divinity Original Sin had, you had 2 protagonists who always had to be in the party, and both of them would be involved in dialogues and you chose responses for both of them. And even then it still detracted from each of them, to the point where they became singular entity of 2 people, in my eyes at least, instead of being 2 separate characters.
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Sanunes
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 2, 2017 5:50:41 GMT
This would in my opinion be BioWare taking a step backwards and playing it safe for they would be copying other games that have fixed protagonists which is what television shows are like. You cannot change or alter the characters for they have to stay fitting in the set narrative. Think of what has happened with the Han Solo film, the directors were rumored to have moved away from what Disney wanted and were fired for it because they have to keep the movies and characters on a narrow path so they fit into the other movies and media.
What draws me to BioWare games is the ability to make the protagonist my own and even if the choices are limited there is still variables to it, at the end of the day people will have different adventures and choices made with their protagonist. If you want to take different acts and use our squad for those elements I doubt it would be anything more then playing a game like Tomb Raider where you are just going along for the ride and not really directing the how the character fits since they all still have to fit within the same puzzle.
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Post by griffith82 on Sept 2, 2017 17:11:40 GMT
So basically like GTAV, the trainwreck GTA. Well I thought it worked well for GTA V. Not here though.
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Post by KaiserShep on Sept 2, 2017 17:18:35 GMT
So basically like GTAV, the trainwreck GTA. Well I thought it worked well for GTA V. Not here though. And really, it's GTA. The 3 goons of V are basically a neapolitan mix of hijinks, not so much characters to really invest in a solid narrative, since the narratives are essentially a gag.
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kino
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The path up and down are one and the same.
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Post by kino on Sept 2, 2017 17:55:09 GMT
It'd be a tough sell for a game where most people invest quite a bit in the character creator and the protag's they create.
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Post by Serza on Sept 2, 2017 18:10:54 GMT
So basically like GTAV, the trainwreck GTA. Well I thought it worked well for GTA V. Not here though. Eh, it's one of the several things that are pisspoor about GTAV. Maybe had the story and characters been more interesting and felt better, it wouldn't be a trainwreck, but it seems Cockstar went for microtransactions and Online grinding 'til stupidity.
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Post by griffith82 on Sept 2, 2017 18:25:50 GMT
Well I thought it worked well for GTA V. Not here though. Eh, it's one of the several things that are pisspoor about GTAV. Maybe had the story and characters been more interesting and felt better, it wouldn't be a trainwreck, but it seems Cockstar went for microtransactions and Online grinding 'til stupidity. I'll give you the last part. Until MEA the last title I was pissed didn't get DLC was GTA V.
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Post by Qolx on Sept 2, 2017 18:29:17 GMT
DoctorFox Halo (OT), Resident Evil 2, and Legacy of Kain: Defiance did the multiple protagonist angle very well. They key is that each protagonist must give a different, unique perspective about the story. These characters are usually fully predefined, too. ME (OT) allowed you to define your Shepard as you wished. This is why multiple protagonists in the same game would not work that well for ME. The game would be forced to take agency away from the player to force some uniqueness onto one or both protagonists. Otherwise, you'd end up playing the same character in different skins. Different protagonists in different games sharing the exact same setting would have been a superior approach for ME. Dragon Age is the more robust franchise because it follows that approach. The meta narrative is more resilient against development personnel changes and potential players can pick up any game without missing much from the other game(s). The MET would have benefited greatly if Shepard had been the protagonist in 1 and 3 while a 2nd protagonist took care of 2.
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Post by Serza on Sept 2, 2017 18:30:09 GMT
Eh, it's one of the several things that are pisspoor about GTAV. Maybe had the story and characters been more interesting and felt better, it wouldn't be a trainwreck, but it seems Cockstar went for microtransactions and Online grinding 'til stupidity. I'll give you the last part. Until MEA the last title I was pissed didn't get DLC was GTA V. Yeah. Story's absolutely weak and uncharistmatic after GTA IV, and it's fairly obvious they went for little effort, lots of money through bullshit that avoids grinding until you drop. Aka microtransactions for fucking Cards.
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LogicGunn
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Post by LogicGunn on Sept 2, 2017 20:39:20 GMT
It's definitely a feature I enjoy in some games, whether interchangeable all the time or in having a different protag for each chapter. In terms of ME, I don't think it's fully compatible with a customisable protag character, but with a preset squad it could work. Maybe in a smaller way, for example in the loyalty missions you can play as the central companion for that mission. I would have loved to play and react as Cora in her mission on the Asari Ark. It's certainly an interesting thing to consider.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
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To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Sept 5, 2017 9:40:54 GMT
Let them get one main character right first. Then let them expanded it to the companions. Kind of like they did with the loyalty missions in ME2.
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simit
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Post by simit on Sept 5, 2017 15:47:59 GMT
Unlke the majority i dont play BioWare games for the companions, so i'd dislike this
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Sept 5, 2017 16:01:11 GMT
Instead of being tied down to one protagonist for the entire story, what if you could switch to playing as one of your squad mates at any given time? Think about it, every squad member has his/her own story/backstory/agenda. When you switch to a new character you'd have an entirely different set of objectives and missions to complete instead of a ton of fetch quests. Each character would have a different set of 5 abilities (like in multiplayer). The SP would teach you how to play as an Adept/Soldier/infiltrator/Vanguard etc etc. You'd also be able to see from every squad mate's perspective which would give you a unique sense of immersion for each one. The game could even jump you into flashback missions from character's pasts instead of simply talking about them in conversation. Live the game through their eyes. I believe this would make each squad mate have more purpose rather than have them as your sidekicks. An interesting thought, but you realize that every single playable squadmate would have to be fully voiced for their individual stories. That's a major resource sink.
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