Ravenfeeder
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 789 Likes: 2,847
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ravenfeeder
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Ravenfeeder on Sept 26, 2016 21:28:10 GMT
The reason you try to do everything initially is because you think it must be important. Then eventually the penny drops and you realise it really isn't. This is why I totally ignore the shards now and those yellow glowing circles that I know are just more bottles of Thedas. I'm totally okay with the fact that you can ignore areas if you want, but I wish they hadn't made it seem as though they were important. The Venatori set up all those posts to find shards, so they must be significant to the story, but they aren't. Why are they so bothered about dwarven ruins in the Hissing Wastes? It must be important but it isn't. Then they record in the Keep whether or not you did complete them. This is why, after the first run when I hadn't completed them (or even gone to the Hissing Wastes) I felt obliged to do so because I was convinced I must have missed something really important. It turned out I really hadn't. Yeah. This is the problem. Whilst I love the game and many of the 'irrelevant' areas, what the Venatori were doing needed more concrete links to the plot. What you did there should have meant something more than loot and XP. I disagree that the areas were too large though, that other folk have raised. I loved the exploration of the areas, even the Hissing Wastes. I just wanted more connection.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2016 21:41:52 GMT
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Post by colfoley on Sept 26, 2016 21:49:46 GMT
I never liked that, granted the way Inquisition did it was a bit of a time drain so I could see why people didn't enjoy it...and the higher tier schematics took a LOT of material. I think really, and this works for ME A too, that you should really be able to assign your assets to go material hunting and it bringing back much larger rewards. Like instead of eight silverite you get like 30.
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Joyous
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Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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butth
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by Joyous on Sept 26, 2016 22:11:01 GMT
I would have cut 2-3 of the zones tied all zones to the plot except for like one bonus zone... Oh yeah, and it's easily one of the worst aspects of the entire game. I mean, there's about ten hours of meaningful content that's then spread super thin across empty, uninteresting MMO-esque zones that are populated with endless fetch quests. I found the world areas to be too big and I spent too much time hunting down shards and weapons/potions,armour materials.The areas were beautifully done but I found I spent way too much time getting around than I did actually playing the story. This is the part I don't get. Optional stuff is optional. If you don't like maps that are not connected to the main quest, or fetching shards, or anything that's optional, why do it? I have never collected all the Mosaic pieces and have no interest in doing so. But I don't then force myself to do it and then complain about how bored I am. Is it fair to say that most of the pain experienced with boring MMO-esque or padded out filler in DAI is self-inflicted? Perhaps Joyous , you can help me understand better why you feel you have to do stuff you don't like doing. Is it the Power mechanic? Because instead of delivering a concise, tightly plotted, linear experience, they decided to dole out the relevant content piecemeal. I personally ignored most of the mindlessly empty zones and fetch quests, but that doesn't save the fact that they're still there, and easily make up 70% of the entire game experience. Having to hold your nose and dig around in shit for little nuggets of relevant content isn't a very enjoyable experience, and it doesn't help that said pile of shit is massive thanks to the faux open world. Mind you, I actually have nothing against open world games, but I have no idea how they fucked up emulating Skyrim so badly that they accidentally made a single player SWTOR.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 26, 2016 22:15:40 GMT
The reason you try to do everything initially is because you think it must be important. Then eventually the penny drops and you realise it really isn't. This is why I totally ignore the shards now and those yellow glowing circles that I know are just more bottles of Thedas. I'm totally okay with the fact that you can ignore areas if you want, but I wish they hadn't made it seem as though they were important. The Venatori set up all those posts to find shards, so they must be significant to the story, but they aren't. Why are they so bothered about dwarven ruins in the Hissing Wastes? It must be important but it isn't. Then they record in the Keep whether or not you did complete them. This is why, after the first run when I hadn't completed them (or even gone to the Hissing Wastes) I felt obliged to do so because I was convinced I must have missed something really important. It turned out I really hadn't. This makes a lot of sense to me. I totally understand the influence of FOMO, at least for the first run.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 26, 2016 22:20:18 GMT
This is the part I don't get. Optional stuff is optional. If you don't like maps that are not connected to the main quest, or fetching shards, or anything that's optional, why do it? I have never collected all the Mosaic pieces and have no interest in doing so. But I don't then force myself to do it and then complain about how bored I am. Is it fair to say that most of the pain experienced with boring MMO-esque or padded out filler in DAI is self-inflicted? Perhaps Joyous , you can help me understand better why you feel you have to do stuff you don't like doing. Is it the Power mechanic? Because instead of delivering a concise, tightly plotted, linear experience, they decided to dole out the relevant content piecemeal. I personally ignored most of the mindlessly empty zones and fetch quests, but that doesn't save the fact that they're still there, and easily make up 70% of the entire game experience. Having to hold your nose and dig around in shit for little nuggets of relevant content isn't a very enjoyable experience, and it doesn't help that said pile of shit is massive thanks to the faux open world. Mind you, I actually have nothing against open world games, but I have no idea how they fucked up emulating Skyrim so badly that they accidentally made a single player SWTOR. I do not know where you are getting the 70% from. There is so much to do in the game and most of it is enjoyable to where the Fetch questing feels like a small part of the game. Granted a rather LARGE small part of the game but in comparison to everything else you get to do in the game, including some really cool quests, which call them fetch quests or not, were still amazing. *** As far as it goes i kind of did a bull rush in m first PT of Inquisition and then my second PT is the one I spent a lot more time doing a lot more things. Some astariums and Shards even. But not doing those on subsequent pts, once was enough.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 26, 2016 22:22:03 GMT
This is the part I don't get. Optional stuff is optional. If you don't like maps that are not connected to the main quest, or fetching shards, or anything that's optional, why do it? I have never collected all the Mosaic pieces and have no interest in doing so. But I don't then force myself to do it and then complain about how bored I am. Is it fair to say that most of the pain experienced with boring MMO-esque or padded out filler in DAI is self-inflicted? Perhaps Joyous , you can help me understand better why you feel you have to do stuff you don't like doing. Is it the Power mechanic? Because instead of delivering a concise, tightly plotted, linear experience, they decided to dole out the relevant content piecemeal. You didn't really mean "linear experience", I hope? Most games get dinged for having linear/railroaded quests. The piecemeal part I understand. That's what I was referring to about the Power mechanic. If it weren't for the need to gather Power to progress the main quest, you'd have exactly what you described, a beeline through the main quest, with no brakes. But then the Metacritic reviews would complain that there was only 20 hours of content in the game and wasn't worth $70. And if you cut all the optional content, non-essential maps, and even the choice between CotJ and IHW, Bioware would get dinged for no replay value. Kind of lose-lose, right?
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Tuchanka Love
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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nami
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by Tuchanka Love on Sept 27, 2016 0:36:39 GMT
The reason you try to do everything initially is because you think it must be important. Then eventually the penny drops and you realise it really isn't. This is why I totally ignore the shards now and those yellow glowing circles that I know are just more bottles of Thedas. I'm totally okay with the fact that you can ignore areas if you want, but I wish they hadn't made it seem as though they were important. The Venatori set up all those posts to find shards, so they must be significant to the story, but they aren't. Why are they so bothered about dwarven ruins in the Hissing Wastes? It must be important but it isn't. Then they record in the Keep whether or not you did complete them. This is why, after the first run when I hadn't completed them (or even gone to the Hissing Wastes) I felt obliged to do so because I was convinced I must have missed something really important. It turned out I really hadn't. Yeah. This is the problem. Whilst I love the game and many of the 'irrelevant' areas, what the Venatori were doing needed more concrete links to the plot. What you did there should have meant something more than loot and XP. I disagree that the areas were too large though, that other folk have raised. I loved the exploration of the areas, even the Hissing Wastes. I just wanted more connection. What makes it feel like the area is too big is because the side-quests are not interesting. If you fill the open world with interesting content, no one will complain. Hell yeah I want to explore and find cool stuff and awesome quests. But fetch quests along with zoomed-out dialogues with NPCs made most side-quests forgettable. In DAI the feeling is that "ok I need to do all this because I'm a completionist" while in other games where the side-quests are well done is "I wonder what this other quest will be about. I bet there's a plot twist. I bet this NPC is lying etc etc"
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Tuchanka Love
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, SWTOR
Posts: 182 Likes: 317
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by Tuchanka Love on Sept 27, 2016 0:41:58 GMT
I would have cut 2-3 of the zones tied all zones to the plot except for like one bonus zone... Oh yeah, and it's easily one of the worst aspects of the entire game. I mean, there's about ten hours of meaningful content that's then spread super thin across empty, uninteresting MMO-esque zones that are populated with endless fetch quests. I found the world areas to be too big and I spent too much time hunting down shards and weapons/potions,armour materials.The areas were beautifully done but I found I spent way too much time getting around than I did actually playing the story. This is the part I don't get. Optional stuff is optional. If you don't like maps that are not connected to the main quest, or fetching shards, or anything that's optional, why do it? I have never collected all the Mosaic pieces and have no interest in doing so. But I don't then force myself to do it and then complain about how bored I am. Is it fair to say that most of the pain experienced with boring MMO-esque or padded out filler in DAI is self-inflicted? Perhaps Joyous , you can help me understand better why you feel you have to do stuff you don't like doing. Is it the Power mechanic? Don't you think the game failed when the player decides not to do stuff because it's boring and not interesting? The whole point isn't to make it fun to the player? to make him/her want to do it? Also, it's a problem when the main quest is too short compared to the other content which you end up neglecting. You are avoiding the biggest part of the game because you don't think is fun.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 27, 2016 19:47:52 GMT
This is the part I don't get. Optional stuff is optional. If you don't like maps that are not connected to the main quest, or fetching shards, or anything that's optional, why do it? I have never collected all the Mosaic pieces and have no interest in doing so. But I don't then force myself to do it and then complain about how bored I am. Is it fair to say that most of the pain experienced with boring MMO-esque or padded out filler in DAI is self-inflicted? Perhaps Joyous , you can help me understand better why you feel you have to do stuff you don't like doing. Is it the Power mechanic? Don't you think the game failed when the player decides not to do stuff because it's boring and not interesting? The whole point isn't to make it fun to the player? to make him/her want to do it? EDIT: I think I misinterpreted your point the first go, so I'm going to try again. Original answer in the spoiler, for posterity's sake and because I think it still is a valid point. Let's say I totally agree with you, except for the "game" part of it. Certainly, somebody failed at doing something. But was it entirely the game's fault? Read on (skip the spoiler). In a word, no. Or at least, not necessarily. Which type of players? And how many? There isn't just one "the player". The broader your market is, the less important 100% satisfaction becomes. Compromise becomes unavoidable. You have to pick your battles and some you are going to lose. I would even argue that trying to achieve 100% satisfaction is a mistake. Familiarity with Bartle's Taxonomy of player styles is useful here. Take a look at the link if you need a refresher. So let's do a yes/no rundown on the play styles and see where we end up. On the whole, was DAI a success for you? Explorer: YES! Achiever: Yes, though some kind of leaderboard for SP stats would have been good. Easter eggs were great, though. Socializer: No for SP, yes for MP, though that could use a lot of improvements. SP needed tie-ins with social networks or something. BSN was great, but oops ... Killers: NO! Game totally sucks and is boring as hell! (That's not a judgment on Killers, by the way -- Killers push the envelope of player agency, and DAI definitely has problems there.) I'd be willing to bet money that, by design, DAI SP was meant to favor Explorers and Achievers, and the rest just weren't going to be satisfied. An intentional compromise. In comparison, FromSoftware definitely prioritizes Killers for Dark Souls and Bloodbourne. You could say that Dark Souls is the quintessential Killers game, particularly in PvP mode. There's stuff for Explorers, Achievers, and Socializers too, but none of those guys are going to be as satisfied with Dark Souls as Killers are. I'm an Explorer, but I don't like exploring Dark Souls much because I get killed too often, so it's boring for me. Does that make Dark Souls a failure? Of course not. TL;DR No game satisfies every player, so just because a game doesn't satisfy some players doesn't make it a complete failure. Like I said earlier, was it a mistake for Bioware to invest so much in replay value, and so little in guiding people around the "optional" stuff? Maybe. Certainly, a lot of people have gotten a bad impression of the game by getting lost in the optional replay stuff. But don't you think Bioware can rightfully call BS on that a little? Because, if the player had just played the main quest like the quest markers told them to, this problem wouldn't exist. The players have to accept some of the responsibility for ignoring the guideposts that were provided. Should there have been more or clearer guideposts? Like I said, maybe. But completely ignoring what was provided can't entirely by Bioware's fault. I do like the FOMO explanation for why this happened, though. When you don't know what's important and what isn't, in your first blind run, you could get into a fear of missing out trap. Because the side-quest that looked like a boring fetch quest could be the key to getting that one super weapon that is going to let you face-roll the final boss battle, or something like that. If Bioware learns only one lesson from DAI, I'd want it to be about this FOMO effect.
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Dabrikishaw
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire
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Post by Dabrikishaw on Sept 27, 2016 19:55:46 GMT
Main questline was about as long it ever has been in a Bioware game.
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