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Post by duskwanderer on Sept 15, 2017 22:04:05 GMT
So... destroy the world out of spite? Building an entire nation is an incredibly difficult thing. A world in chaos and ruin...you might as well join Solas. At least more fun... So: not really a world destroyer (I don't like to play as evil), but someone as Hawke. A man, who does things, and the world change. Or not. How much did the world change with Hawke? It was Anders who blew up the Chantry. It was Meredith who went off the deep end. Hawke was just there. That was sort of the point of DA2. The Chosen One, the Big Bad, the people at the center of it all aren't really the only persons involved.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 15, 2017 22:09:04 GMT
At least more fun... So: not really a world destroyer (I don't like to play as evil), but someone as Hawke. A man, who does things, and the world change. Or not. How much did the world change with Hawke? It was Anders who blew up the Chantry. It was Meredith who went off the deep end. Hawke was just there. That was sort of the point of DA2. The Chosen One, the Big Bad, the people at the center of it all aren't really the only persons involved. Do you think the Inquisitor matters? More than Hawke? Not really. The Inquisitor's hand matters. S/he's Andraste's (Solas's) blessed hand.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 15, 2017 23:58:41 GMT
How much did the world change with Hawke? It was Anders who blew up the Chantry. It was Meredith who went off the deep end. Hawke was just there. That was sort of the point of DA2. The Chosen One, the Big Bad, the people at the center of it all aren't really the only persons involved. Do you think the Inquisitor matters? More than Hawke? Not really. The Inquisitor's hand matters. S/he's Andraste's (Solas's) blessed hand. One of the big things in DAI is how while yes the Anchor is a useful tool, it is not what made the Inquisitor what they are.
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formerfiend
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: Former_Fiend
Posts: 547 Likes: 956
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Post by formerfiend on Sept 16, 2017 0:01:24 GMT
I don't want to burn the world down. I just want to cut the cancer out of it.
I'm tired of fighting someone else's enemies in someone else's war for someone else's reasons. I'm tired of protecting institutions I don't believe in because people are afraid of change.
My signature on the old BSN, which I had written prior to inquisition's release, laid out what I had intended on being my Inquisitor's philosophy. Paraphrasing because I forget the exact wording - which is a shame because it was a great line; "My one goal is sealing the breach and stopping the demonic tide that threatens this world. All who aid me in this are my allies, all who frustrate me in this are my enemies. I care not for the petty squabblings of mages, templars, or nobles. They will fall in line, or they will simply fall."
I wanted to be able to issue ultimatums. I wanted to be able to tell the templars and mages to help me seal the breach or I would destroy them. I wanted to be able to tell Celene and Gaspard to help me seal the breach or I would let Orlais burn.
Obviously I didn't get what I wanted. I can't even sit back and let the Chantry collapse, and I have the majority of my party telling me why it needs to be preserved. And I can disagree with them until the cows come home, but it doesn't change a thing.
The inquisitor is ultimately impotent. We are repeatedly told that our intentions and desires don't mean anything; our legend is going to form and grow into something out of our control. Our actions will have consequences but ultimately the Inquisition will be taken over by it's own inertia and corruption.
I didn't mind Hawke not being able to change major events. Hawke was just an individual, who did their own thing for their own reasons. And I want to get back to that.
Yes I would like to topple Minrathous, both to just be the first person to conquer the unconquered city, and also to strike a blow to a deeply corrupt and toxic government so that social change and upheaval can take place.
But I'll settle for putting one elven head on a spike. Not to protect Tevinter or Orlais or even Ferelden, and damn sure not to protect the Chantry. But because he pisses me off with his self righteous martyr complex.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 16, 2017 0:07:02 GMT
Do you think the Inquisitor matters? More than Hawke? Not really. The Inquisitor's hand matters. S/he's Andraste's (Solas's) blessed hand. One of the big things in DAI is how while yes the Anchor is a useful tool, it is not what made the Inquisitor what they are. I don't think, s/he even matters really. Leliana and Cassandra were the leaders.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 16, 2017 0:10:36 GMT
One of the big things in DAI is how while yes the Anchor is a useful tool, it is not what made the Inquisitor what they are. I don't think, s/he even matters really. Leliana and Cassandra were the leaders. No. In the beginning it was more of a counsel with Josephine, Leliana, Cullen, and Cassandra all leading and defer to the protagonist to do what they think is best. After the events of Haven, the protagonist is named the leader when given the title of Inquisitor. The Inquisitor proved themselves a leader and that's why they got the position, not because of the Anchor or anything else.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 16, 2017 0:13:20 GMT
I don't want to burn the world down. I just want to cut the cancer out of it. And that cancer is Solas.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 16, 2017 0:16:19 GMT
I don't think, s/he even matters really. Leliana and Cassandra were the leaders. No. In the beginning it was more of a counsel with Josephine, Leliana, Cullen, and Cassandra all leading and defer to the protagonist to do what they think is best. After the events of Haven, the protagonist is named the leader when given the title of Inquisitor. The Inquisitor proved themselves a leader and that's why they got the position, not because of the Anchor or anything else. Proved? How? With fortune? S/he didn't prove anything, s/he just an accidental hero surrounded by a bunch of hopeless people who need anyone to worship. S/He was there with his/her glowing hand, because touched Solas' ball.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 16, 2017 0:20:52 GMT
No. In the beginning it was more of a counsel with Josephine, Leliana, Cullen, and Cassandra all leading and defer to the protagonist to do what they think is best. After the events of Haven, the protagonist is named the leader when given the title of Inquisitor. The Inquisitor proved themselves a leader and that's why they got the position, not because of the Anchor or anything else. Proved? How? With fortune? S/he didn't prove anything, s/he just an accidental hero surrounded by a bunch of hopeless people who need anyone to worship. They proved themselves when by their own volition they got enough allies to help seal the Breach and saved the world. Then further proved themselves by holding off an army while their comrades escaped(and devastated the enemy army for a bit). Not to mention all the side stuff they could have done. They have proved themselves more than pretty much any other Bioware protagonist. I don't see how just because they found themselves in that situation on accident makes them any less of a leader.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 16, 2017 0:22:16 GMT
Proved? How? With fortune? S/he didn't prove anything, s/he just an accidental hero surrounded by a bunch of hopeless people who need anyone to worship. They proved themselves when by their own volition they got enough allies to help seal the Breach and saved the world. Then further proved themselves by holding off an army while their comrades escaped(and devastated the enemy army for a bit). Not to mention all the side stuff they could have done. They have proved themselves more than pretty much any other Bioware protagonist. I don't see how just because they found themselves in that situation on accident makes them any less of a leader. Sounds bad.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 16, 2017 0:23:14 GMT
They proved themselves when by their own volition they got enough allies to help seal the Breach and saved the world. Then further proved themselves by holding off an army while their comrades escaped(and devastated the enemy army for a bit). Not to mention all the side stuff they could have done. They have proved themselves more than pretty much any other Bioware protagonist. I don't see how just because they found themselves in that situation on accident makes them any less of a leader. Sounds bad. What sounds bad?
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Post by Catilina on Sept 16, 2017 0:24:10 GMT
How pretty is the Inquisitor.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 16, 2017 0:24:59 GMT
How pretty is the Inquisitor. Are you trolling right now? Your sentences are making no sense.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 16, 2017 0:27:16 GMT
How pretty is the Inquisitor. Are you trolling right now? Your sentences are making no sense. I just don't see, how proved, that s/he's a leader. The people just worship him/her, because of Solas' "blessing".
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 16, 2017 0:30:13 GMT
Are you trolling right now? Your sentences are making no sense. I just don't see, how proved, that s/he's a leader. The people just worship him/her, because of Solas' "blessing". It's not because of the Anchor that the Inquisitor did those things. The Anchor did not end the Mage-Templar War. The Anchor did not end the Orlesian Civil War. The Anchor did not save the people at Haven. The Anchor did not save the Grey Wardens. The Inquisitor as a person and as a leader did those things by themselves. Out of curiosity, what would prove to you that somebody is a leader?
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Post by Catilina on Sept 16, 2017 0:40:54 GMT
I just don't see, how proved, that s/he's a leader. The people just worship him/her, because of Solas' "blessing". It's not because of the Anchor that the Inquisitor did those things. The Anchor did not end the Mage-Templar War. The Anchor did not end the Orlesian Civil War. The Anchor did not save the people at Haven. The Anchor did not save the Grey Wardens. The Inquisitor as a person and as a leader did those things by themselves. Out of curiosity, what would prove to you that somebody is a leader? Cassandra and Lelina finished the war with the army. Inquisitor's blessed hand was, what stopped the Orlesian Civil War. Without this mark, the Inquisitor's nothing before the Orlesian nobility. (Even who care about the Orlesians? The Inquisitor only needed the Orlesian army...) Every good and brave man would able to save the people. Especially the Anchor was, what saved the Grey Wardens.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 16, 2017 0:42:57 GMT
It's not because of the Anchor that the Inquisitor did those things. The Anchor did not end the Mage-Templar War. The Anchor did not end the Orlesian Civil War. The Anchor did not save the people at Haven. The Anchor did not save the Grey Wardens. The Inquisitor as a person and as a leader did those things by themselves. Out of curiosity, what would prove to you that somebody is a leader? Cassandra and Lelina finished the war with the army. Inquisitor's blessed hand was, what stopped the Orlesian Civil War. Without this mark, the Inquisitor's nothing before the Orlesian nobility. (Even who care about the Orlesians? The Inquisitor only needed the Orlesian army...) Every good and brave man would able to save the people. Especially the Anchor was, what saved the Grey Wardens. No. Just no. You're either trolling or you literally did not pay any attention to the story. Either way, I'm done with you.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 16, 2017 0:49:06 GMT
Cassandra and Lelina finished the war with the army. Inquisitor's blessed hand was, what stopped the Orlesian Civil War. Without this mark, the Inquisitor's nothing before the Orlesian nobility. (Even who care about the Orlesians? The Inquisitor only needed the Orlesian army...) Every good and brave man would able to save the people. Especially the Anchor was, what saved the Grey Wardens. No. Just no. You're either trolling or you literally did not pay any attention to the story. Either way, I'm done with you. Don't get me wrong, I like the Inquisitor too, but s/he have the weakest story. Nothing special: an accidental hero with a "blessing" what makes his/her to Chosen One. Whatever s/he did, the people worship him/her, and s/he triumph over the evil, how glorious! A big step back after Hawke.
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Post by lucidae on Sept 16, 2017 0:56:13 GMT
I think the protagonist that is the strongest leader against all odds and with the most grit is the warden.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 16, 2017 0:58:48 GMT
I think the protagonist that is the strongest leader against all odds and with the most grit is the warden. According to Catilina they aren't a leader because they can only do what they do because of a special power given to them.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 16, 2017 1:02:40 GMT
No. Just no. You're either trolling or you literally did not pay any attention to the story. Either way, I'm done with you. Don't get me wrong, I like the Inquisitor too, but s/he have the weakest story. Nothing special: an accidental hero with a "blessing" what makes his/her to Chosen One. Whatever s/he did, the people worship him/her, and s/he triumph over the evil, how glorious! A big step back after Hawke. Disagree entirely. For me Hawke is easily the weakest protagonist and story. Speaking of story, again one of the big plots of Inquisition was a dismantling of the Chosen One trope. Everyone thinks the Inquisitor is a savior sent by the Maker, and yet as the game goes on over and over again that is revealed to not be the case and that the Inquisitor is just a person and that everything they have done is not because they are a chosen one but because of their own abilities.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 16, 2017 1:04:36 GMT
Don't get me wrong, I like the Inquisitor too, but s/he have the weakest story. Nothing special: an accidental hero with a "blessing" what makes his/her to Chosen One. Whatever s/he did, the people worship him/her, and s/he triumph over the evil, how glorious! A big step back after Hawke. Disagree entirely. For me Hawke is easily the weakest protagonist and story. Speaking of story, again one of the big plots of Inquisition was a dismantling of the Chosen One trope. Everyone thinks the Inquisitor is a savior sent by the Maker, and yet as the game goes on over and over again that is revealed to not be the case and that the Inquisitor is just a person and that everything they have done is not because they are a chosen one but because of their own abilities. And because s/he has an army behind his/her ass. An army a great benefit. Hawke's story personal, fun and refreshing. Hawke's coolest hero ever. The Inquisitor's story a world-savior fantasy, no more. Inquisitor's just a hero...
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 16, 2017 1:08:32 GMT
Disagree entirely. For me Hawke is easily the weakest protagonist and story. Speaking of story, again one of the big plots of Inquisition was a dismantling of the Chosen One trope. Everyone thinks the Inquisitor is a savior sent by the Maker, and yet as the game goes on over and over again that is revealed to not be the case and that the Inquisitor is just a person and that everything they have done is not because they are a chosen one but because of their own abilities. And because s/he has an army behind his/her ass. An army a great benefit. So a leader has to be someone who does everything by themselves? You do know that literally goes against the definition of the word leader right? Hawke's story personal, fun and refreshing. The Inquisitor's story a world-savior fantasy, no more. MI never said Hawke's story was bad. I just said compared to the Warden and Inquisitor, Hawke falls short.
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"Abso-fraggin-lutely!" ~ Captain John Sheridan and Satai Delenn
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Sept 16, 2017 1:10:25 GMT
I agree that the Inquisitor is an agent of order, they need to be because their enemy engineers chaos so stopping corypheus's plans means creating order - a united and stable south is also needed to close the breach and defeat cory's armies. You can even declare order as being the reason you take up the mantle of inquisitor (it's in the keep and everything).
But unlike Corypheus I don't think defeating Solas is going to be about armies and stability, a small elite band finding ways to depower solas/make them selves protected from him and investigating what his plan is to stop it seems in order (pun not intended). There is no need for such a group to act like the inquisition did, indeed achieveing those goals could have all manner of chaotic consequences. Whether as the desired effect or in an ends justify the means manner.
This is true regardless of whether there is a new protagonist or a returning one.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 16, 2017 1:10:30 GMT
And because s/he has an army behind his/her ass. An army a great benefit. So a leader has to be someone who does everything by themselves? You do know that literally goes against the definition of the word leader right? Not the Inquisitor's the leader of the army. Cassandra is. But the Inquisitor collects the weeds and pebbles with his/her own blessed hand...
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