The Joe-Man
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Post by The Joe-Man on Sept 7, 2017 3:57:04 GMT
This isn't really news to anybody but I'm writing this to bring attention to what I think is a huge issue with the games balance in the hopes that the devs see it and address it before completing their last round of balance changes. The current state of assault rifles is that every single one of them is outclassed by a comparable gun from the pistol category in the same or lower rarity. This discrepancy is made worse by the fact that the pistol version is usually much lighter and that they can also benefit from the expert package equipment that boosts pistol damage and reduces cooldowns as well. Here's the list, as I see it: Full Auto Ultra Rares
P.A.W.
Soned Outclassed by:
Hurricane Rozerad Silhesh
Burst Fire Ultra Rare and Rares
Valkyrie Sweeper Zalkin Outclassed by:
M-25 Hornet Full Auto RaresM-8 Avenger S Revenant Thokin X5 Ghost Outclassed by:
Eagle (UR) Charger S Equalizer Semi Auto Rares  L-89 Halberd Sandstorm Outclassed by:Ushior (UR) Sidewinder Talon A pointy stick Grenade launcherM-37 Falcon Outclassed by:Scorpion The Cyclone and the Mattock are both uncommon so I'd say that they're good for their rarity level as there are no uncommon pistols that really measure up. Strangely, the Cyclone is better than all of the rare ARs, but it still can't hold a candle to the UR pistols. In every case the answer to "I want a gun that does ___" is always a pistol. I find that really strange and I hope it's addressed. |
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Post by poultrymancer on Sept 7, 2017 4:07:32 GMT
If you get my favorite pistols nerfed, I'm gonna start jiggling my cables again on objective waves to lag-smite you.
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The Joe-Man
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Post by The Joe-Man on Sept 7, 2017 4:10:43 GMT
If you get my favorite pistols nerfed, I'm gonna start jiggling my cables again on objective waves to lag-smite you. LOL! I think the ideal thing would be to buff the ARs but increase their weight and decrease stability to compensate. |
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Spectr61
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Post by Spectr61 on Sept 7, 2017 4:21:02 GMT
Too late.
Sadly.
(Would have been nice to have a Harrier, or something like it.)
Then again, maybe before the final final?
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Scathane
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Post by Scathane on Sept 7, 2017 5:44:56 GMT
If you get my favorite pistols nerfed, I'm gonna start jiggling my cables again on objective waves to lag-smite you. LOL! I think the ideal thing would be to buff the ARs but increase their weight and decrease stability to compensate. I think there's another element that weighs in: the release of S-class weapons. Look, for instance, at the damage value for the old Charger pistol and the Avenger and Revenant assault rifles (at level X) and you'll see they are 50, 55 and 78 respectively. Then S-weapons got released, which got us: Charger S - 71, Avenger S - 83. The Revenant didn't get an S-class and remains at 78 to this day. This made the Revenant a lesser weapon not only to the Charger S but to the Avenger S as well. And since the S-class damage is the basis for the variant weapons, their variant counterparts have the same problem. I noticed this for the comparison above since I really like the Revenant as a gun but my guess is that this is true for other rare ARs as well... Edit: I think this thread may be relevant for Twitchy Questioning, JRandall0308 |
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The Joe-Man
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Post by The Joe-Man on Sept 7, 2017 6:22:57 GMT
I think they kind of saw the Revenant as perfect, damage wise then decided after to bring everything up to its level. The problem is the pistols are half the weight so now there's no reason to use the Revenant anymore.
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Post by poultrymancer on Sept 7, 2017 6:31:31 GMT
The problem is the pistols are half the weight so now there's no reason to use the Revenant anymore. Krogan. That's my reason. No self-respecting krogan would ever consider using a pistol or sniper. |
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The Joe-Man
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Post by The Joe-Man on Sept 7, 2017 6:44:59 GMT
The problem is the pistols are half the weight so now there's no reason to use the Revenant anymore. Krogan. That's my reason. No self-respecting krogan would ever consider using a pistol or sniper. If not for the fact that you could put ARs on Wrex and Grunt I'd argue that shotguns are the only correct option. Enemy krogan used to mock you in ME2 for using other guns. |
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Scathane
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Post by Scathane on Sept 7, 2017 6:45:11 GMT
The problem is the pistols are half the weight so now there's no reason to use the Revenant anymore. Krogan. That's my reason. No self-respecting krogan would ever consider using a pistol or sniper. Yup, there's also style. Sort of the same goes for me with the Revenant: I like the gun and the thud sound it makes. Heck, my favorite gun in ME3MP was the Phaeston because of its sound. I can deal with a few setbacks in Revenant design but not bringing it (back up) on par with S-class weapon damage renders it utterly silly to take it along... :.( |
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Post by poultrymancer on Sept 7, 2017 6:54:53 GMT
Krogan. That's my reason. No self-respecting krogan would ever consider using a pistol or sniper. Yup, there's also style. Sort of the same goes for me with the Revenant: I like the gun and the thud sound it makes. Heck, my favorite gun in ME3MP was my favourite weapon because of its sound. I can deal with a few setbacks in Revenant design but not bringing it (back up) on par with S-class weapon damage renders it utterly silly to take it along... :.( It's among the few guns that feel to me like they got the sound right. I not only like the report, I love the pitch change as the magazine dwindles and that tink sound when it's exhausted that emulates a belt-fed weapon. I don't hate the weapon sound design generally like some others, but not a lot of them feel congruent with the weapon like the Revenant. Regarding performance, I agree that it could use a healthy 15-20% buff. |
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Post by poultrymancer on Sept 7, 2017 7:02:41 GMT
Krogan. That's my reason. No self-respecting krogan would ever consider using a pistol or sniper. If not for the fact that you could put ARs on Wrex and Grunt I'd argue that shotguns are the only correct option. Enemy krogan used to mock you in ME2 for using other guns. Krogan + shotgun = canon cannon |
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Post by Scathane on Sept 7, 2017 7:16:03 GMT
Yup, there's also style. Sort of the same goes for me with the Revenant: I like the gun and the thud sound it makes. Heck, my favorite gun in ME3MP was my favourite weapon because of its sound. I can deal with a few setbacks in Revenant design but not bringing it (back up) on par with S-class weapon damage renders it utterly silly to take it along... :.( It's among the few guns that feel to me like they got the sound right. I not only like the report, I love the pitch change as the magazine dwindles and that tink sound when it's exhausted that emulates a belt-fed weapon. I don't hate the weapon sound design generally like some others, but not a lot of them feel congruent with the weapon like the Revenant. Regarding performance, I agree that it could use a healthy 15-20% buff. *My favourite weapon in ME3MP was the Phaeston because of its sound, btw... #stillearly #moarcoffee |
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The Joe-Man
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Post by The Joe-Man on Sept 7, 2017 7:21:19 GMT
It's among the few guns that feel to me like they got the sound right. I not only like the report, I love the pitch change as the magazine dwindles and that tink sound when it's exhausted that emulates a belt-fed weapon. I don't hate the weapon sound design generally like some others, but not a lot of them feel congruent with the weapon like the Revenant. Regarding performance, I agree that it could use a healthy 15-20% buff. *My favourite weapon in ME3MP was the Phaeston because of its sound, btw... #stillearly #moarcoffee Ouch. That was a tough one to love. |
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Scathane
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Post by Scathane on Sept 7, 2017 7:35:44 GMT
Yup, did shit for damage. Dat sound tho...  |
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Post by thelostturian on Sept 7, 2017 8:18:56 GMT
Yeah, this pistol vs. assault rifle balance is insane, it should be the other way round.
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Post by mydamnalterego on Sept 7, 2017 10:43:55 GMT
ARs sucked from the very beginning, suck now and will suck until the bitter end of this game (since there won't be any patches). Server-side changes? Would like to hope, but - something tells me, that these hopes would be in vain. :-(
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Post by shinobiwan on Sept 7, 2017 12:14:31 GMT
The silhesh really demonstrates BW's philosophy in designing pistols - they should be lighter, have more dps, larger clip, better reload time, and generally exceed their AR counterpart by every metric. The new AR coming out further reinforces this with its piss poor dps.
They follow a clear pattern and although it's dumb as hell, it's probably too late for them to do anything despite that we've been asking them to fix this problem since day 1.
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Post by JRandall0308 on Sept 7, 2017 13:02:22 GMT
I have been summoned.
ARs have been asked about repeatedly and we got... some decent bloom reduction and some minor damage buffs. I don't think Bioware plans to go any further than that but I guess we can keep asking.
Does anyone have side-by-side math comparisons of pistols vs. ARs with like charts and graphs and shit? That might get our point across.
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Post by Scathane on Sept 7, 2017 13:20:51 GMT
I could make one but it won't be finished for today's Twitch, so it would be something for next week.
Also it would focus on the damage value.
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Post by JRandall0308 on Sept 7, 2017 13:26:57 GMT
Let's see if there *is* a Twitch today before you put any work into it, Scathane. |
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Post by poultrymancer on Sept 7, 2017 13:58:15 GMT
Let's see if there *is* a Twitch today before you put any work into it, Scathane. They indicated last week that they'd be announcing their grand plans for N7 day today, no? |
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The Joe-Man
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Post by The Joe-Man on Sept 7, 2017 14:20:02 GMT
Let's see if there *is* a Twitch today before you put any work into it, Scathane. They indicated last week that they'd be announcing their grand plans for N7 day today, no? They did but they didn't tweet a confirmation yesterday like thet usually do. It's disappointing because I was looking forward to all of the #savethequarians replies telling them that nobody cares about multiplayer. |
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Post by JRandall0308 on Sept 7, 2017 14:50:51 GMT
The 'nobody cares about MP' really chaps my ass. I honestly don't care about #SaveTheQuarians or #MakeJaalBi or #LetMeSexUpRobots but some people do.
There are people who care about MP, there are people who care about SP, there are people who care about both, there are people who care about neither. Just... stay in your lane. Don't go shit up the MP tweets with your SP bullshit, and vice versa.
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Post by shinobiwan on Sept 7, 2017 15:29:19 GMT
Let's see if there *is* a Twitch today before you put any work into it, Scathane. They indicated last week that they'd be announcing their grand plans for N7 day today, no? They did. Those responsible have been sacked. |
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Post by poultrymancer on Sept 7, 2017 15:36:23 GMT
They indicated last week that they'd be announcing their grand plans for N7 day today, no? They did. Those responsible have been sacked. And replaced by llamas? |
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