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Post by alanc9 on Sept 12, 2017 22:44:42 GMT
We talked about this in another thread. I never did get how someone who didn't like Kadara could tolerate the Storm Coast. Can't say I particularly liked the Storm Coast, but it wasn't the only map there. Kadara, well, it may be Storm Coast, but certainly not much better. My point is that there's plenty of overlap in the two games' bell curves. The best ME:A planets are better than the worst DAI maps.
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Post by nvanfleet on Sept 12, 2017 22:55:04 GMT
[snip]the reyes romance is REALLY starved for content, don't judge me[/snip] Both playthroughs I finished I had to maximize that Reyes Romance. There needed to be *so much more* there. Gah.
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Post by melbella on Sept 13, 2017 1:10:07 GMT
Yep, agreed. Meanwhile, we can get some suspense building up around Jardaan, tensions resurfacing with Angara. I actually would not even mind 20-30 years, so we can also deal with the new generation of Andromedians, and maybe even their divergences from the original colonists, biologically or spiritually... That would be a good premise for a sequel as well. I think if we had a better understanding of how far away the cluster that the Kett originated from was in relation to Heleus, we could discern what type of invading force they could collect and when it would arrive. As it stands, an older Ryder in their 40's or 50's could make a solid advisory role or NPC not unlike Hawke in DA:I although I wouldn't mind them breaking precedent and having your Ryder from ME:A be a squadmate with your psychological profile created during your playthrough determining the character that joins your new team. Also, like you stated, if would be enough time for the inevitable internal conflicts between the respective races to surface making galaxy-wide relations less certain.
That might work if the profiles weren't bugged. Lexi contradicts herself and comes to the opposite conclusions at the same time.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2017 1:30:43 GMT
With only 3 completed playthroughs under my belt so far, I'm still purposefully mixing up the order in which I do things and also now purposefully not doing certain quests... experimenting with how they change the role play. My order also varies depending on my Ryder's gender and romance choice.
I have settled on a preference on Eos for thoroughly investigating both Sites 1 and 2 before following the trail left by PeeBee's tech towards the first monument. I like how the various datapads you find and the bodies all lead to a clearer picture about what happened and why the first two sites failed.
I do think I prefer doing Havarl before Voeld, since doing Voeld really puts Havarl on a back burner and I have a tough time justifying going there. It just seems more logical to go from Voeld to Aya (dropping off the Moshae) and then directly to Kadara to chase down Vehn Terev.
On Kadara, I prefer leaving the collection of the Kett transponder until after I've done everything else I want to do on that planet.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 13, 2017 2:24:06 GMT
I do think I prefer doing Havarl before Voeld, since doing Voeld really puts Havarl on a back burner and I have a tough time justifying going there. It just seems more logical to go from Voeld to Aya (dropping off the Moshae) and then directly to Kadara to chase down Vehn Terev. Jaal's missions will eventually give you an RP reason to get to Havarl, won't they?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2017 2:44:53 GMT
I do think I prefer doing Havarl before Voeld, since doing Voeld really puts Havarl on a back burner and I have a tough time justifying going there. It just seems more logical to go from Voeld to Aya (dropping off the Moshae) and then directly to Kadara to chase down Vehn Terev. Jaal's missions will eventually give you an RP reason to get to Havarl, won't they? He does mention about locating Thaldyr on Havarl and I suppose it does work, but that just doesn't seem as much of a compelling fit to me personally as going to both the original planets to which he was assigned and mentions as part of his assessment. If I were Bioware, I would have forced the issue and made it so the player had to do a mission on both of the planets before being able to progress to the vidcom conversation with Evfra. If I do Havarl first, I can just do the single mission on Havarl, ignore the vidcom call and go onto Voeld... meet Anjik (which Jaal still does say to meet with her on the walk (i.e cold dash) to the base) and do the Stage a Rescue assignemtn... then return to the Tempest and activate the vidcom. I know the reason they did it the way they did was to leave things more open-world; but it does muddle the story somewhat regardless of the order in which the player does the missions... and there are little (i.e minor) "lapses" in the changes that occur in the dialogue regardless. This is just my personally preferred way around it. Any way does work... but none of them work perfectly... so it's just player preference.
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Post by Element Zero on Sept 13, 2017 2:57:21 GMT
I did Havarl first in my first PT because Voeld sounded like the bigger commitment or task. (That proved true.) In subsequent PTs, I've always maintained this approach, since it seems most logical to me. I do need to flip the order, at least once. I want to experience what must be a skeptical reception on Voeld.
I agree with @upupaway95 in that more structure could've been beneficial. It's not unbelievable how easily we earn Evfra's trust, but it could've been a tad more difficult.
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Post by melbella on Sept 13, 2017 2:59:13 GMT
Jaal's missions will eventually give you an RP reason to get to Havarl, won't they? He does mention about locating Thaldyr on Havarl and I suppose it does work, but that just doesn't seem as much of a compelling fit to me personally as going to both the original planets to which he was assigned and mentions as part of his assessment. If I were Bioware, I would have forced the issue and made it so the player had to do a mission on both of the planets before being able to progress to the vidcom conversation with Evfra. If I do Havarl first, I can just do the single mission on Havarl, ignore the vidcom call and go onto Voeld... meet Anjik (which Jaal still does say to meet with her on the walk (i.e cold dash) to the base) and do the Stage a Rescue assignemtn... then return to the Tempest and activate the vidcom. I know the reason they did it the way they did was to leave things more open-world; but it does muddle the story somewhat regardless of the order in which the player does the missions... and there are little (i.e minor) "lapses" in the changes that occur in the dialogue regardless. This is just my personally preferred way around it. Any way does work... but none of them work perfectly... so it's just player preference. Welcome back!
I've done that too. It feels weird being suddenly trusted by the angara just for unfreezing a few scientists. It seems like more should be required to gain that first bit of trust. I've gone to Voeld first only once but I like starting on Havarl better, then going to Voeld.
I think in my first game I did the Moshae rescue right away since I figured that's why the pilot and crew were standing there for me to run into first. I know you can tell them "I'll be back later" but since I was there for the Moshae I went ahead with it. Now I prefer to clean the place up a bit first, find uncle whatshisface, take down the kett base, explore the ice cave, and generally get to know my way around.
I tend to play the same way every time, once I understand how things work and when stuff is available. The main difference is whose LM I do first, which changes based on romance. I plan to romance PB in my next game so I don't think I'll be able to do hers first unless I basically ignore everyone else all game long. But PB likes playing hard to get so not locking in until later in the game might work better anyway.
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Post by Element Zero on Sept 13, 2017 3:04:38 GMT
He does mention about locating Thaldyr on Havarl and I suppose it does work, but that just doesn't seem as much of a compelling fit to me personally as going to both the original planets to which he was assigned and mentions as part of his assessment. If I were Bioware, I would have forced the issue and made it so the player had to do a mission on both of the planets before being able to progress to the vidcom conversation with Evfra. If I do Havarl first, I can just do the single mission on Havarl, ignore the vidcom call and go onto Voeld... meet Anjik (which Jaal still does say to meet with her on the walk (i.e cold dash) to the base) and do the Stage a Rescue assignemtn... then return to the Tempest and activate the vidcom. I know the reason they did it the way they did was to leave things more open-world; but it does muddle the story somewhat regardless of the order in which the player does the missions... and there are little (i.e minor) "lapses" in the changes that occur in the dialogue regardless. This is just my personally preferred way around it. Any way does work... but none of them work perfectly... so it's just player preference. Welcome back!
I've done that too. It feels weird being suddenly trusted by the angara just for unfreezing a few scientists. It seems like more should be required to gain that first bit of trust. I've gone to Voeld first only once but I like starting on Havarl better, then going to Voeld.
I think in my first game I did the Moshae rescue right away since I figured that's why the pilot and crew were standing there for me to run into first. I know you can tell them "I'll be back later" but since I was there for the Moshae I went ahead with it. Now I prefer to clean the place up a bit first, find uncle whatshisface, take down the kett base, explore the ice cave, and generally get to know my way around.
I tend to play the same way every time, once I understand how things work and when stuff is available. The main difference is whose LM I do first, which changes based on romance. I plan to romance PB in my next game so I don't think I'll be able to do hers first unless I basically ignore everyone else all game long. But PB likes playing hard to get so not locking in until later in the game might work better anyway.
I agree that rescuing a few scientists from stasis is an incredibly low bar for establishing trust. I never return to Tempest, though, until fully completing Havarl. I think rescuing their homeworld, and all of the (fun) legwork it entailed, is a very believable basis for cooperation. If you save my planet, I think we can risk a bit of future collaboration.
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Post by melbella on Sept 13, 2017 3:09:50 GMT
Yeah, I usually clear Havarl on the first trip too. I really wish Ryder had portable email. I hate having to go to the ship, cutscene take off, read email, etc. then cutscene landing back to where I just was because I don't have email access on the planet. Yet there are two terminals in the Tempest? Really, SAM? Why can't you download my emails to my onmitool?
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Post by malanek on Sept 13, 2017 3:35:56 GMT
This started with some comments in the Twitter thread. I started to reply there, but as my reply got longer and longer, I could feel Hrungr breathing down my neck, so I moved it to this thread. It's things like these with the pacing of tasks and presumed order of doing things that make me imagine how much better the game could have been if it hadn't been so open world. I do like roaming around but I think I would prefer a tighter story line and a fixed order of doing things. Especially since there is so much to do, it's hard to remember why I'm doing this or that when you're fairly free to proceed in any order you want. So this is another example of Bioware designing the game particularly for me and not for the vast majority of players. The same thing happened with DAI and the Hinterlands -- my first PT I immediately figured out how to work that zone for maximum value, just by doing what I normally do in open worlds. While it's pretty widely agreed that BW fucked up the Hinterlands and blew the pacing for 99.9% of players, for us 0.1%'s, it was perfect. Maybe DAI trained me how to play MEA? Eos was a bit disorienting at first, so that was my learning experience, but once I got to Havarl (which I decided to do before Voeld -- wonder what the percentages are on that choice?), something clicked and I figured out how to work each world. Fixing the Vault is almost always last, it's the closing scene of the act, at least for the first major visit. Side-quests can send you back to a world, but the main act closes with the opening of the vault (ha!) The exception is when there is a Priority Ops mission associated with the world, like on Kadara, then that goes last. With where to end sorted out, let's look at the beginning. Getting all the forward stations manifested was always a priority for me. I wouldn't beeline to them, always tried to have a quest to put me in the area, but getting them set up for fast travel and, very importantly, healing and ammunition resupply, was a priority for me every time I came to a new world. After that, what comes next is a matter of perference. Personally, I liked doing Alliances & Relationship quests on the world first. Next, or if there weren't any A&R stuff, do the "make the world suitable for an outpost" quests, which of course includes activating the pillars, as well as dealing with whatever the threat/political situation is. That stuff would take up the bulk of the act. I'd save the big battle/raid for last-ish, usually just before dealing with the vault. When some side-quest would bring me near a pillar, I'd cruise over and get that done -- I don't think I did them purposely after Eos, it was always because I was in the neighborhood. As for Tasks, I consciously tried not to do most of them. If they were "Gather X of Y" type, forget it. If I happened to be right next to one on the way to something else, fine, but otherwise, ignore. The exception being the Memory thingeys, those I did try to get for the sake of unlocking that bit of narrative. Tasks that were more about going to strange places, meeting new people and killing them (j/k), I'd do if they seemed interesting. Overall, I don't need BW's prompts to get me to go look at their cool environment design, I'd voluntarily do that on my own. Finally, one additional note. When a quest sent me back to the Tempest, I fucking went, without delay. Not only because I wanted to progress the loyalty missions of my crew, but also because I didn't want to tempt the bugged-out quest gods and screw something up. You play BW games long enough, you learn that going back to headquarters/your ship should not be delayed. Even if nothing sent me there, I always tried to go back to the Tempest after I did something major on a world, just to see if something was unlocked. And of course, if I had email. The above worked really well for me. I really only got lost and fed up on Eos the first time. And I was able to avoid most of the dumb side-quests, with one exception. Contagion. What a PITA that one is! Avoid at all costs. I'm not in any way shape or form trying to argue that figuring out the most optimal way of playing the game is difficult, I finished Inquisition in about 20 hours on my first (and only full) playthrough. I'm arguing that it is still full of boring shit. You suggest beelining towards forward stations, fair enough, but why should doing something so mechanical be in the game? You suggest heading back to the tempest ultra-frequently, but again making such a requirement important is terrible design. I want to experience a story and shoot stuff (or blow it up with powers). I don't want to optimise my pathfinding to cut out crappy padding. They could have added an ignore option to hide all the crappy tasks you suggest avoiding, but they didn't. It's two clicks to get out of the map, and when you go in it's zoomed so far out you always have to zoom in. To sell the thousands of crappy items they give you you have to wait about a quarter of a second after selecting each one (meaning you can't down arrow return ultra quickly). You have that stupid travel animation that someone somewhere thought was cool but raises my blood pressure every time I see it. Look I enjoyed the game well enough, but there was a layer of tedium built on top of it that drove me crazy. To me that was much worse and more annoying than the animations.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 13, 2017 3:44:18 GMT
Jaal's missions will eventually give you an RP reason to get to Havarl, won't they? He does mention about locating Thaldyr on Havarl and I suppose it does work, but that just doesn't seem as much of a compelling fit to me personally as going to both the original planets to which he was assigned and mentions as part of his assessment. If I were Bioware, I would have forced the issue and made it so the player had to do a mission on both of the planets before being able to progress to the vidcom conversation with Evfra. If I do Havarl first, I can just do the single mission on Havarl, ignore the vidcom call and go onto Voeld... meet Anjik (which Jaal still does say to meet with her on the walk (i.e cold dash) to the base) and do the Stage a Rescue assignemtn... then return to the Tempest and activate the vidcom. I know the reason they did it the way they did was to leave things more open-world; but it does muddle the story somewhat regardless of the order in which the player does the missions... and there are little (i.e minor) "lapses" in the changes that occur in the dialogue regardless. This is just my personally preferred way around it. Any way does work... but none of them work perfectly... so it's just player preference. I'm not sure it's necessarily a problem for the story if a player blows off the Havarl missions until the late game, or even forever, as long as the player is presented with them. I went to Havarl with my first Ryder, who I was playing as scientifically-focused and only reluctantly a soldier. I can see how most Ryders would probably find Voeld more important. Maybe that is a balance issue. (Nice to see you back. Nothing's changed lately; we even have an ME3 thread going.)
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 13, 2017 3:49:42 GMT
They could have added an ignore option to hide all the crappy tasks you suggest avoiding, but they didn't. Can't we all just ignore tasks ourselves, without technical assistance?
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Post by auu on Sept 13, 2017 4:14:04 GMT
Don't know if I'll be replaying any time soon to mess around with the order that I did things the first time.
I kind of explored maps until the other thing I didn't do was deplete resource areas.
I can't say it was fun exploring.
DAI had fun exploring. There always seemed like there was something interesting to look at or lore to come by. MEA...not so much.
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Post by melbella on Sept 13, 2017 4:29:40 GMT
They could have added an ignore option to hide all the crappy tasks you suggest avoiding, but they didn't. Can't we all just ignore tasks ourselves, without technical assistance?
Gamer self-control? What is this heresy of which you speak?!
The best way to avoid them is to not talk to strangers. Or sometimes friends. Or anyone, really. And don't pick up random datapads that might have a quest virus hiding in them.
I would like the option though, if I tell someone no, I'm not interested, to have the quest not go into my to do list anyway. If you must journalize it, at least put it in the "done" folder as refused and no longer available.
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Post by malanek on Sept 13, 2017 4:32:27 GMT
They could have added an ignore option to hide all the crappy tasks you suggest avoiding, but they didn't. Can't we all just ignore tasks ourselves, without technical assistance? Yeah we can, but then it slows down the use of the journal when it is littered with stuff you have no interest in and will be so for the rest of the game. In some cases it is quicker to do it just to get rid of the bloody thing. Having an ignore function that removes it from the map and journal (having a separate category you can retrieve from) works very well in other games such as Borderlands, and should be very easy to implement. Why not have it?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2017 4:33:21 GMT
They could have added an ignore option to hide all the crappy tasks you suggest avoiding, but they didn't. Can't we all just ignore tasks ourselves, without technical assistance? Several of the tasks can be literally turned down by Ryder during the conversations that present them to him/her. The coding is admittedly somewhat inconsistent though. Sometimes when Ryder actually turns down a task, the marker then disappears and the task is never offered again and it does not appear in the journal (which is, IMO, really as it should be). At other times, the marker may return with an option to rethink having turned down the task (which I don't think should ever be available). If you just never start the conversation with that NPC, the marker will show on the map as long as the task is available (which is pretty much how it has to been since most of the tasks do remain available for the entire game... even post epilogue). I think all quests, regardless of their size should have very clear "turn down" option in the conversation that first introduces the quest that consistently means that task will not be entered into the journal and will not be offered again to the player. Only main story (priority op) missions should not have such a conversation option.
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Post by Element Zero on Sept 13, 2017 4:35:47 GMT
Yeah, I usually clear Havarl on the first trip too. I really wish Ryder had portable email. I hate having to go to the ship, cutscene take off, read email, etc. then cutscene landing back to where I just was because I don't have email access on the planet. Yet there are two terminals in the Tempest? Really, SAM? Why can't you download my emails to my onmitool? This is a bizarre design choice, in my opinion. I'm not sure if it's thick-headedness, or if there are technical hurdles of which I'm unaware. Regardless, even if there are technical issues, I can come up with easy compromises. Each forward station should've had an R&D terminal, rather than only a few (all of which were located in the immediate vicinity of a full lab). Imagine the reduced annoyance on Kadara if you could just drive to the nearest forward station to craft Alain's implant. Instead, we must visit either DITAEON or Kadara Port (and its bugs and loading screens). Ugh. Email should be accessible at forward stations. Put those flavor text synchronization updates into my email folder, if it helps. The value of those flavor text entries plummets after the first PT. It should likewise be accessible in outposts. I can't find a secure terminal at an outpost? Allow me to access Viability/Cryopod perks in at least one location on each world. While I'm on the topic, why do I need to regularly collect my rewards in order to keep them flowing? It makes no sense, really. Does someone steal the next shipment if I haven't picked up the previous one? I miss out on lots of rewards because I refuse to return to Tempest unless it really is necessary and I'm damn well ready. I'd love to see a Mass Effect game in which the pause menus, and access to features like the above, are framed as functions of the omnitool. This game is still a mess in its final state, due to a totally botched development cycle. Maybe with a smoother cycle, an idea like this could me made to work.
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Post by aslightjump on Sept 13, 2017 5:27:38 GMT
This makes me feel like such a slacker cause I don't have any structure at all except this:
I go in a circle.
Literally, that's it, I go in a circle around the galaxy, or in a weird triangle before Kadara and Elaaden open up. I complete three to five missions, at least one of them being essential like vaults or outposts, make sure to plant at least one forward camp every trip until all of the map is easily accessible, and then I move on. It makes the Kadara plotline about ten times better if you space it out. It really works for me. I never have time to get bored, in fact sometimes I leave myself chomping at the bit to come back, I have time to go back onto the Tempest and open up more missions for next time, it's great for me. Admittedly it kinda falls apart near the end game when I've cleared everything on Eos cause it came first and now Liam has like three extra missions for me there. Thanks, Liam.
If companion quests aren't on a planet proper, then I jet off to them straight away. If they are, they get top priority when next I visit that planet. Actual storyline missions are just whenever I want to get to them - much easier to handle on my second playthrough then my first, when I felt I played the Salarian ark mission way too soon because I thought there was more to the main storyline.
I didn't really do that in DAI. DAI, especially once the trials came out and I could scale enemies and slow down leveling, my strategy was to basically complete the main storyline of a zone, leave it and go back to mop up all the side-quests of the last zone I left, then open up a new zone, complete its main storyline, and go back to the sidequests of the first zone mentioned. To me, that helps add to the sense of urgency DAI is severely lacking - IQ's priority is to stabilize the region, he/she'll come back to do extra stuff when she/he has the time.
I think both MEA and DAI are badly paced and I honestly prefer the kind of in-game timers like ME2 had, but I know it's not everyone's cup of tea. I don't have a problem with open world/zone games but I do feel you have to create your own pacing in them.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 13, 2017 5:28:15 GMT
Can't we all just ignore tasks ourselves, without technical assistance?
Gamer self-control? What is this heresy of which you speak?!
The best way to avoid them is to not talk to strangers. Or sometimes friends. Or anyone, really. And don't pick up random datapads that might have a quest virus hiding in them.
I would like the option though, if I tell someone no, I'm not interested, to have the quest not go into my to do list anyway. If you must journalize it, at least put it in the "done" folder as refused and no longer available.
Yeah, it is a bit annoying looking for a task I do want to do in the middle of a list of tasks I'm never gonna do.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 13, 2017 5:31:53 GMT
Yeah, I usually clear Havarl on the first trip too. I really wish Ryder had portable email. I hate having to go to the ship, cutscene take off, read email, etc. then cutscene landing back to where I just was because I don't have email access on the planet. Yet there are two terminals in the Tempest? Really, SAM? Why can't you download my emails to my onmitool? Apparently smartphone technology didn't come with us from the Milky Way. It's sort of like how credit card and expense account technology were lost which is why Shepard had to pay for everything with cash.
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Post by hulluliini on Sept 13, 2017 9:00:56 GMT
They could have added an ignore option to hide all the crappy tasks you suggest avoiding, but they didn't. Can't we all just ignore tasks ourselves, without technical assistance? No. Some of us have OCD that makes it really hard and stressful. I really would have appreciated a more clear indication of which task and mission is actually important for the story instead of making them all seem vital on the surface. How would scanning and sampling of potential food sources not be a priority when Nexus supplies are running out? If I could immediately see which task leads to something important and what doesn't, I could make an informed choice. There was that side mission leading to the revelation of the kett having profiles of MW species or something and the initial task description sounded completely unimportant! I wouldn't have done that mission if I hadn't been so bent on completing every mission on my first playthrough. And would have missed out on vital information about the kett, which are part of the main story arc. Thank you for creating this thread btw PapaCharlie-etc., great tips on how to go about it! I usually stay away from open world games because of my OCD issue, but how could I not buy and play a Mass Effect game? I never experienced so much stress playing a ME game but at the same time I feel compelled to play because I love the premise, the world, the story lines and everything. I just wish they had made it more linear and restricted like the previous games. My first playthrough of ME:A lasted a bit less than 200 hours -- that included a lot of time marvelling at the scenery and daydreaming and trying to fill in the numerous holes in the story with my own imagination. Now I really wanted to start another playthrough but I'm wondering if I really should spend my few gaming hours on a game I already played and which will last another 200 hours, when I have so many unplayed games I could finish in 5-20 hours... Which brings me to another question I've had for a while: how many ME fans actually wanted an open world ME game? Why did the developers think fans would want that? Did they see a general trend in gaming or was it just a hunch for them? It would be fair enough if they had based their decision on some hard data, like the majority of ME fans playing open world games in addition to ME. But then again, they obviously did not quite know how to design an open world game if you consider the organisation of the mission journal and the pacing. During your first playthrough, it should be way more obvious to the player how to proceed. It shouldn't take multiple playthroughs when you consider that most players only barely complete a game once, let alone the fact that multiple playthroughs - > less money for the developer because they won't buy new games as long as they're playing the same game over and over. Perhaps it's mostly about the rushed schedule during development, but that doesn't change the fact that they truly thought that procedurally generated worlds could work and be genuinely interesting and attractive to players of a trilogy that was very linear and heavily story-driven. That just doesn't click, you know?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2017 10:54:58 GMT
Can't we all just ignore tasks ourselves, without technical assistance? No. Some of us have OCD that makes it really hard and stressful. I really would have appreciated a more clear indication of which task and mission is actually important for the story instead of making them all seem vital on the surface. How would scanning and sampling of potential food sources not be a priority when Nexus supplies are running out? If I could immediately see which task leads to something important and what doesn't, I could make an informed choice. There was that side mission leading to the revelation of the kett having profiles of MW species or something and the initial task description sounded completely unimportant! I wouldn't have done that mission if I hadn't been so bent on completing every mission on my first playthrough. And would have missed out on vital information about the kett, which are part of the main story arc. Thank you for creating this thread btw PapaCharlie-etc., great tips on how to go about it! I usually stay away from open world games because of my OCD issue, but how could I not buy and play a Mass Effect game? I never experienced so much stress playing a ME game but at the same time I feel compelled to play because I love the premise, the world, the story lines and everything. I just wish they had made it more linear and restricted like the previous games. My first playthrough of ME:A lasted a bit less than 200 hours -- that included a lot of time marvelling at the scenery and daydreaming and trying to fill in the numerous holes in the story with my own imagination. Now I really wanted to start another playthrough but I'm wondering if I really should spend my few gaming hours on a game I already played and which will last another 200 hours, when I have so many unplayed games I could finish in 5-20 hours... Which brings me to another question I've had for a while: how many ME fans actually wanted an open world ME game? Why did the developers think fans would want that? Did they see a general trend in gaming or was it just a hunch for them? It would be fair enough if they had based their decision on some hard data, like the majority of ME fans playing open world games in addition to ME. But then again, they obviously did not quite know how to design an open world game if you consider the organisation of the mission journal and the pacing. During your first playthrough, it should be way more obvious to the player how to proceed. It shouldn't take multiple playthroughs when you consider that most players only barely complete a game once, let alone the fact that multiple playthroughs - > less money for the developer because they won't buy new games as long as they're playing the same game over and over. Perhaps it's mostly about the rushed schedule during development, but that doesn't change the fact that they truly thought that procedurally generated worlds could work and be genuinely interesting and attractive to players of a trilogy that was very linear and heavily story-driven. That just doesn't click, you know? Hmmm... lumping them into the "additional tasks" section of the journal wasn't good enough. Also, it was very clear that that anything that was not in the Priority Ops section of the journal was optional. Prior to release people were wildly requesting that all side quests seem relevant to the story and all have some sort of effect on either the character or the ending. After release, many began complaining that there were too many "fetch" quests that did not connect to the story at all and that had no impact on the game anywhere. Now, you're saying that they made them all seem to be "vital" to the story; for example, by connecting the little food scan quest on Aya and the plant cultivation quest to the idea that the people on the Nexus were starving and tying in all of Suvi's comments about trying different local foods. It just seems to me that people want to just complain for the sake of complaining here. To me, the sections in the journal made things pretty clear... Priority Ops had to be done to complete the game; Allies & Relationships meant that Ryder's relationship with his/her squad mates or other NPCs would be affected by doing or not doing those quests; Heleus Assignments were optional but were generally more involved than the quests listed under additional tasks. They could be done or not done with no real effect on the outcome of the story, but many did provide interesting little side stories or back stories to events, places or people involved in the main story. Many of the smaller quests did combine to form a larger story... e.g. all the little quests involving Site 2 actually go together very nicely to paint a clearer picture of why that settlement was doomed to fail from the start... but that still doesn't mean that information is vital to the main story. It did not take me multiple playthroughs to decide how to proceed. My first playtrhough was absolutely satisfactory. Rather, I'm replaying this game with the absolute intention of playing it differently each time. That's where the replay value is. I did one that was absolutely 100% complete, followed by one where, for example, I decided that my Ryder wasn't interested in digging up his father's memories. I intentionally never unlocked a single one and was quite happy with the resulting dialogue changes. My first Ryder gave a lot of credit for his success in the end to his dad's ideas; the second one was clearly more independent thinking and came up with those same ideas on his own. The dialogue on Havarl and Veold changes significantly depending on what order you do things in... but everything I've tried has worked into the story OK... not perfect, but OK. Yes, perfect dialogue changes would be nicer and they would be easier with a more linear world structure. Hopefully Bioware will get to that "perfect balance" in the next game. I still don't find ME:A all that bad, though.
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Post by Element Zero on Sept 13, 2017 13:10:15 GMT
Can't we all just ignore tasks ourselves, without technical assistance? Which brings me to another question I've had for a while: how many ME fans actually wanted an open world ME game? Why did the developers think fans would want that? Did they see a general trend in gaming or was it just a hunch for them? It would be fair enough if they had based their decision on some hard data, like the majority of ME fans playing open world games in addition to ME. But then again, they obviously did not quite know how to design an open world game if you consider the organisation of the mission journal and the pacing. During your first playthrough, it should be way more obvious to the player how to proceed. It shouldn't take multiple playthroughs when you consider that most players only barely complete a game once, let alone the fact that multiple playthroughs - > less money for the developer because they won't buy new games as long as they're playing the same game over and over. Perhaps it's mostly about the rushed schedule during development, but that doesn't change the fact that they truly thought that procedurally generated worlds could work and be genuinely interesting and attractive to players of a trilogy that was very linear and heavily story-driven. That just doesn't click, you know? I believe that MEA was the perfect setting and story with which to implement the open world approach. BioWare hasn't yet mastered this type of game, but MEA was a definite step forward from DAI. They're learning, at least. The game absolutely needed more focused story missions, since that's where any ME game truly shines. Development Hell meant that much of the game was poorly implemented and optimized. I'd like to see them rip off many design features from Horizon: Zero Dawn if they make another MEA. It's quest log is absolutely perfect, and Aloy's focus device functions the way Ryder's scanner should've worked. HZD is simply a much more polished game, despite it being GG's first such effort. They clearly had a smoother, better managed development cycle.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 13, 2017 15:20:04 GMT
Can't we all just ignore tasks ourselves, without technical assistance? No. Some of us have OCD that makes it really hard and stressful. I've often wondered if this is a learned behavior which could be unlearned. Or does gaming just naturally attract peop,e with OCD. Well, some of this is pretty easy to answer. It's a CRPG, and an open-world CRPG at that. This means that no mission will be important in that sense. Whatever order the player wants to use on the missions will work. It's a hallmark of the genre. Or a critical flaw in the genre, if you like. I'm not sure it's conceptually possible for a journal to provide a universally-acceptable pacing solution. I don't know if we could even get one which appeals to a plurality. We'll have to see how this thread goes. Havng said that, I think there are quite a few players who would prefer to not have to manage pacing themselves. I find it annoying and anti-RP, myself.
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