Talon Merc: 1000N?

I like this question.

I hate the dude, never play him, and I might take the time to build his powers correctly with me3tweaks if you get an answer I like.

I don't know the maths, but I can tell you that concussive arrows send phantoms flying in a most amusing manner on a proper melee speced talon merc.


I don't know if the force is applied per arrow as you suspect, if the melee attack's force is added to the impact, if the graal I partnered to him had anything to do with it, or if something else entirely is going on, but I took him into gold and platinum enough times to know that concussive arrows can humiliate phantoms every bit as well as throw does, if not better.

My default build for reference: Build

Replace the ammo with warp if playing with biotics, replace shock trooper with berzerker package if you aren't worried about running out of grenades, or grenade capacity if you really must.
Kalence is bugged on multi-nade kits btw, it only counts the +1 grenade from rank once, so add 2 extra grenades to kalence's stats for him if using all 3 grenade powers.

This build sacrifices a little power damage, arrow force, and the grenade regen for utility but still gets the ragdoll effect from concussive arrows at 720N, so I don't think you'll have a problem getting the ragdoll to work on whatever build you come up with.


That doesn't help with actually hitting the target off-host though.
Using charged melees instead of quick ones can help because of the lock-on feature but excessive lag will bork the lock-on, so you may be forced to host to use him.
I was able to use him off host effectively 9 times out of 10, but YMMV.

I like using charge-up weapons on Talon Merc, such as GPS or Kishock. Concussive Arrows have much more oomph if they hit a split second after the shield-stripping plasma balls

I ended up trying this (temporary link until I can pretty it up at home):

kalence.weebly.com/me3-builder.html#3A!2401585!!23O56314!D9.0G9

I actually had taken 5A in passives before, but after seeing how little I actually had to use Cain mines (and how little damage the arrows did...) I'd rather take 5B. This is especially true because of the Arc Pistol, which after all these years I had never used before, but is a headshot beast.

I ended up doing fairly well, albeit inconsistently due to lag. But my success was probably more as a result of the pistol than the build and definitely not because of my skill. (I play smart, not well.) I mainly went around popping off heads from cover and used CAs only at close range when I got charged. Even then the lock-on missed 25% of the time at point blank range, especially against Geth. But when they connected it was a delight, either throwing the back outright or stunning them long enough for me to take a headshot. I really didn't need the extra arrow in rank 6 CA, but at the time I felt like I wanted an extra shot when the arrow failed to connect. With the Grenade Cap though, I don't think I ever dropped to less than 8 grenades, so I'd probably take the additional arrow fired over the extra grenade.

Cains I also saved for spawn points and choke points, also for armored elites.

I think I would actually play this build again sometime.

I believe that's the dilemma CHRrOME was referring to: how the need to boost melee for the arrow dmg magnifies the Merc's squishiness...the Catch-22 of it.

That's a good build actually.

It might be worth swapping AP rounds for drill rounds though.
Spammy shots will suffer against armoured foes but charged up shots will do almost exactly the same amount of damage, and you'll gain multihits on certain enemies and the ability to shoot through cover.
Since you won't be spamming the trigger on this build you might well find it to be an improvement.

Given how much of the work the pistol was doing you might do even better by swapping the melee amp for a pistol amp too.

Also, if you end up sticking with extra grenades instead of taking arrow count you might as well remove rank 6 completely and take the first 3 ranks of AP arrows instead.
Your grenade count will be exactly the same either way and you'll have an extra power to play with.

I'd go with arrow count over extra grenades though, unless you plan on using something other than grenade capacity in the gear slot such as the geth scanner.

My only complaint about Volus controls is going from Adept to Vanguard (or back again) where the damned buttons are reversed for no reason. My Adept is a weapons platform, so if I am Shield Boosting, I probably need it, where a Vanguard, I'll be Biotic Charging if I need shields. Occasionally I will switch from BatGlove to Biotic Orbs spam on my Vanguard, or from Weapons to Stasis Booms on the Adept, and this is when it gets even more Frustrating.

Otherwise, I love the volus characters, they are amoung my favourites in ME3MP. Hell, the Sentinel is my favourite character of all. Adept is hilarious with a Revenant or Typhoon (I've seen my VolusFriend run Raider on him, too, which is tempting in its hilarity). I used to run Engineer for Spawn Nuking Bronze/Silver with a Tempest for fun, but have since switched him to bigger guns and trying to learn to play him "properly", I have trouble finding a proxy/shoot/cloak rhythmn with him. VolSent always uses the Saber, no exceptions, it is his gun, and nobody can take it away from him.

Every single Volus Character is better than the Talon Merc. Talon is one of the unfortunate victims of BioWare's bad ideas, combined with subpar coding and bad netcode. He COULD'VE been so much more. He's an insult to the armour.

Maybe the correct term would be: powers with legit cooldowns  Because Recon Mine on an Infidrell is nearly as obnoxious and cheap as Cain mines

I've been watching erikjs talk about this kit and it seems the powers bug is actually serverside. It's not saving his powers list correctly and sometimes doesn't return an ammo pack power. Incredible.

Yeah, after a couple of Gold matches I'm re-retiring this guy, even after Evil's suggestions, which were spot on. Too huge a variation in the reliability of arrows to connect from host to host. I was running him with Ad Module because I'm tired of wasting cyclonics, but that depends on the concussive arrows finding their mark when being bum-rushed. I couldn't even lock on to Husks or Abombs coming straight at me half the time Only alternative I guess would be Geth Scanner to avoid more face-to-face confrontations.

The only force threshold I care about in relation to the Talon is the amount of force needed to propel him out the airlock.