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Post by vanelsa on Sept 20, 2017 18:19:17 GMT
I'm looking for ways to keep the game as fresh as possible while I wait for the last three characters to arrive. Right now, I'm looking at how I can best reduce enemy damage output so my teammates can stand out in the open like the Juggernaut. INB4 the best enemy is a dead enemy; yes, I know. I just want to try some different gameplay tactics.
Provided that enemy damage debuffs stack (with other powers), I've come up with the following team compositions. Anyone ever play like this?
Salarian Operator: Overload with maximum chaining and tech sabotage (-30% for 8 seconds). Rank 6B Sabotage on Invasion (-15% for duration of Invasion).
Human Juggernaut: Rank 6B Degradation (-35% for 21-24 seconds)
Angara Avenger: Rank 5B Flash Strike (-85% for 5 seconds in a 5m radius)
Flamethrower kit: Rank 6B Blinding Heat (-50% for enemies on fire)
Questions:
1) Applying fire to a frozen or chilled enemy or cold to an enemy on fire removes the debut, but does it also remove the enemy damage output debuff too?
2) Does performing a combo detonation on a chilled or enflamed enemy remove the enemy damage debuff?
3) Is there a maximum amount of enemy damage output debuff that can be applied? I doubt Avenger Striking a chilled Blaze Hydra would turn its missiles into siphon missiles!
Looks like just pairing together the Juggernaut and an Operator, one could get -80% enemy damage output on overloaded and chilled enemies. Most people go for Rank 6A Anti-Armor on the Juggernaut and Rank 6A Virulence on the Operator, but I'd be interested in hearing from people who have gone this route to see if they really notice enemy damage output is significantly reduced.
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Post by seductivewizard on Sept 20, 2017 18:54:27 GMT
1) Fire and ice effects cancel each other out. 2) yes 3) If an enemy gets hit with T.Agent's flamethrower (tech sabotage + blinding heat = 80%) and S. Operator's invasion (tech sabotage 30% + invasion sabotage 15% = 45%), would the enemy do -25% damage?? In other words, would they siphon 25% health to you when they try to shoot at ya? whaatttttttt? My guess is they DO NOT stack.
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RonnieBlastoff
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Post by RonnieBlastoff on Sept 20, 2017 22:53:16 GMT
I haven't seen the testers post anything in a long time, so you might have to test these things out yourself
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Post by poultrymancer on Sept 20, 2017 23:32:48 GMT
I have found through extensive testing with many different combinations of abilities that enemy damage output can reliably be debuffed by 100% by killing them.
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Post by JRandall0308 on Sept 21, 2017 1:13:43 GMT
Yeah, this is the problem with every game: "the best status condition is dead" as we used to say in D&D 4th edition.
DPS trumps debuffs.
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Post by JRandall0308 on Sept 21, 2017 1:14:55 GMT
Also a lot of your mechanics questions (ex. how Invasion actually works) are answered in the mechanics thread pinned to the top of board. Use the 'search' function.
Or go to reddit and look at the Numerical Data Masterbook over there.
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vanelsa
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Post by vanelsa on Sept 21, 2017 1:22:03 GMT
Yeah, this is the problem with every game: "the best status condition is dead" as we used to say in D&D 4th edition. DPS trumps debuffs. As I wrote: “INB4 the best enemy is a dead enemy; yes, I know. I just want to try some different gameplay tactics.“ The game is easy enough right now that I want to do something other than the same thing over and over.
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Post by JRandall0308 on Sept 21, 2017 16:58:43 GMT
I believe nothing can top Invasion's debuff, particularly for passive spreading, so 4x Operator might be quite amusing.
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vanelsa
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Post by vanelsa on Sept 21, 2017 17:50:35 GMT
I believe nothing can top Invasion's debuff, particularly for passive spreading, so 4x Operator might be quite amusing. But (and this was after searching and reading the numerical damage tests post), debuffs don't generally stack. So, while every enemy might be weakened by 40+%, their damage output will still be -15%. Back in the early days of ME3MP, a pack of four Female Quarian Engineers specced with Rank 6 Backfire could melt enemies without firing a single shot. It was fun while it lasted, but BW later patched the game so Sabotage wouldn't stack. Now, would 4xShield Boost stack? I didn't see anything in the numerical damage tests thread that tested that. Now to find that four-man Operator team to test.
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iakona
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Post by iakona on Sept 21, 2017 18:37:34 GMT
Identical buffs and debuffs almost always don't stack between characters, because they simply apply a status effect on the character that applies the stats. Multiple applications of a status effect generally just remove any existing copies and refresh it, rather than stacking. There may be some edge cases where this doesn't apply, but I haven't had the time or inclination to thoroughly examine the code for every buff and debuff in the game yet.
In the case of 4x shield boost, you should be able to stack the initial shield restoration since it's a near-instant effect, but each ongoing shield restoration status effect applied would remove the previous one.
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Post by JRandall0308 on Sept 21, 2017 19:22:00 GMT
I was thinking along the lines of 'what's the easiest way to debuff everything on the map' - I suspected like-sourced debuffs wouldn't stack.
That being the case I think vanelsa's OP is probably optimal. With the caveat that almost nothing will survive long enough to actually get debuffed by blinding heat, given the other 3 debuffs already in place.
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Post by iakona on Sept 22, 2017 3:30:51 GMT
3) If an enemy gets hit with T.Agent's flamethrower (tech sabotage + blinding heat = 80%) and S. Operator's invasion (tech sabotage 30% + invasion sabotage 15% = 45%), would the enemy do -25% damage?? In other words, would they siphon 25% health to you when they try to shoot at ya? whaatttttttt? My guess is they DO NOT stack. They should stack just fine since they're separate powers, but they cap at -100%. Just tested this with a modified artificer, and there was no siphon effect even with 150% damage debuff, the enemies just did 0 damage.
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vanelsa
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Post by vanelsa on Sept 22, 2017 5:17:51 GMT
Thanks for doing the testing. Now, the next question is how many enemies can you conceivably debuff at one time? Do you think a well-coordinated team can debuff all 12 active enemies on the field? That would be fun to stand and melee all the enemies while they are debuffed and can’t hurt you.
I didn’t know that Invasion + Tech Sabotage worked. Thought Tech Sabotage only worked with Overload.
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Post by iakona on Sept 22, 2017 18:09:57 GMT
I didn’t know that Invasion + Tech Sabotage worked. Thought Tech Sabotage only worked with Overload. That's the beauty of modding; you can make anything work anyway you like it.
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Post by seductivewizard on Sept 22, 2017 18:33:21 GMT
3) If an enemy gets hit with T.Agent's flamethrower (tech sabotage + blinding heat = 80%) and S. Operator's invasion (tech sabotage 30% + invasion sabotage 15% = 45%), would the enemy do -25% damage?? In other words, would they siphon 25% health to you when they try to shoot at ya? whaatttttttt? My guess is they DO NOT stack. They should stack just fine since they're separate powers, but they cap at -100%. Just tested this with a modified artificer, and there was no siphon effect even with 150% damage debuff, the enemies just did 0 damage. I've been waiting a while for this artificer. How'd you get an artificer? Explain everything, give us all the juicy details.
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