Zatche
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Post by Zatche on Oct 10, 2017 19:10:33 GMT
The only nonsense here is your inability or lack of desire to understand and admit what is plain as day. Plugging your ears and claiming "nonsense" doesn't make opposing arguments go away. It just makes you look the fool. The problem is that you're claiming that Bio is restricting itself from going where the story takes them, but there's no evidence. What's missing from DAI that should have been there? Why can't Bio simply decide that the story they want to tell doesn't include piece of content X? Right, I suppose you could argue DA2 used brothels to tell an interesting story or 2. There was, what was it, the possessed prostitute that lured and killed Templars or something? Maybe it was interesting, I don't remember. And DAO only had Isabela, which could've happened at a bar, and the patrons who refused to leave, which wasn't super compelling. It didn't get into any serious topics, like human trafficking or abuse. It was mostly a joke, so I have a hard time swallowing the argument that the absence of brothels is evidence BioWare is suddenly pulling their punches and avoiding sexual themes. If we're really looking for an answer to the question about what changed for BioWare, maybe they just don't find it that entertaining anymore. Jokes don't get funnier the more you tell them.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 19:25:32 GMT
And yet their plans actually work out for them sometimes. Lol...hey now. We don't know about everything he's done. Some stuff may have gone according to plan. The Veil went according to plan, and in fact worked too well. He didn't count on the weakened elves continuing to squabble and the humans being capable of taking advantage of it. Same with the Orb and Corypheus. The plan was solid, but there was no way to account for the unlikelihood of Cory knowing the immortality trick. He may have even trapped the Blight in the Black City, but boom, the magisters broke in and let it all out again. I wonder if that's why he says humans are always blowing things up in that early conversation with Varric. Must have been a helluva night in the Fade. He played the Inquisitor like a fiddle in the main game, then in Trespasser got them to clean the Eluvian network out for him, and stopped the Qunari from taking out the leadership of Southern Thedas for him, while he did his own stuff elsewhere. I'd say those plans worked out pretty well for Solas.
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 10, 2017 19:54:01 GMT
Lol...hey now. We don't know about everything he's done. Some stuff may have gone according to plan. The Veil went according to plan, and in fact worked too well. He didn't count on the weakened elves continuing to squabble and the humans being capable of taking advantage of it. And that's assuming that he didn't know that the Veil will have adverse effects. But according to what he said in Trespasser - he did. Otherwise it wouldn't be the only option left when every other alternative is worse, and he waited with its deployment until the Evanuris killed one of their own and - considering that he tells us that they did so to gain more power - likely became unstoppable. Solas's regret about the Veil doesn't seem to be the one one a guy who thought that the Veil will fix stuff and - oops - it had unforeseen consequences. Like, sure, he obviously feels guilty for creating the Veil and the damage it did, but most if it is a regret of someone who mourns the fact that things went so bad that he had to create the Veil in the first place.
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Sylvius the Mad
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Oct 10, 2017 20:15:42 GMT
The problem is that you're claiming that Bio is restricting itself from going where the story takes them, but there's no evidence. What's missing from DAI that should have been there? Why can't Bio simply decide that the story they want to tell doesn't include piece of content X? The goal shouldn't be to tell a story. The goal should be to create a coherent world. I'm not sure where we would be that there would be no brothels. At least in a moddable game we could add our own.
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 11, 2017 1:03:47 GMT
The goal shouldn't be to tell a story. The goal should be to create a coherent world. I'm not sure where we would be that there would be no brothels. The problem with this argument is that -- assuming anything like the recent Bio budget for urban areas -- not all the buildings from a city are going to make the cut. If Bio ever goes back to modelling an entire city the way they did in BG1, then failure to include a brothel would mean that there weren't any brothels. But as it is, failure to include a brothel just means that there's no positive reason to put one in the game.
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Post by naughtynomad on Oct 11, 2017 4:40:08 GMT
The goal shouldn't be to tell a story. The goal should be to create a coherent world. I'm not sure where we would be that there would be no brothels. The problem with this argument is that -- assuming anything like the recent Bio budget for urban areas -- not all the buildings from a city are going to make the cut. If Bio ever goes back to modelling an entire city the way they did in BG1, then failure to include a brothel would mean that there weren't any brothels. But as it is, failure to include a brothel just means that there's no positive reason to put one in the game. If you can design a market full of random vendors, you can design a brothel full of random prostitutes. Make it a quest hub and you get more resources devoted to it. The point is, things like this add to the ambiance of the world. I personally feel like a city is much more alive when these things are included. Denerim was tiny in DAO, but felt much more lively than VR in Inquisition. One the reasons for this was, of course, the brothel.
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Post by cloud9 on Oct 11, 2017 5:17:15 GMT
I hope they change their mind and add a brothel that's so amazing, that it becomes the best brothel ever seen in an RPG game. Brothels are a place to see hot men & women npcs and get treated to a nice sex scene, but what's more important is that brothels always serve as a place for shady dealings, meeting interesting npcs, be exposed to controversial & thought provoking quests. Maybe there is a sex worker who has a disease and you need to cure them or something. Maybe a sex worker is being held against her/his will. Maybe you can pour your ale all over the sex worker while he/she is nude, man that would be cool. I'm sure the Canadian government officials would love that one, god damn prudes. Yeah right, luzarius, the liberator of prostitutes. :lmfao: "What do you want to be when you grow up?" "I wanna be a whore, mom!"
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Post by Gwydden on Oct 11, 2017 12:19:18 GMT
The problem with this argument is that -- assuming anything like the recent Bio budget for urban areas -- not all the buildings from a city are going to make the cut. If Bio ever goes back to modelling an entire city the way they did in BG1, then failure to include a brothel would mean that there weren't any brothels. But as it is, failure to include a brothel just means that there's no positive reason to put one in the game. If you can design a market full of random vendors, you can design a brothel full of random prostitutes. Make it a quest hub and you get more resources devoted to it. The point is, things like this add to the ambiance of the world. I personally feel like a city is much more alive when these things are included. Denerim was tiny in DAO, but felt much more lively than VR in Inquisition. One the reasons for this was, of course, the brothel. What about other things a city is bound to have? Banks, universities, churches, theaters, barracks, taverns... Heck, if one must see people naked, we’re going to Tevinter! Surely they have bathhouses there?
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 11, 2017 12:23:02 GMT
If you can design a market full of random vendors, you can design a brothel full of random prostitutes. Make it a quest hub and you get more resources devoted to it. The point is, things like this add to the ambiance of the world. I personally feel like a city is much more alive when these things are included. Denerim was tiny in DAO, but felt much more lively than VR in Inquisition. One the reasons for this was, of course, the brothel. What about other things a city is bound to have? Banks, universities, churches, theaters, barracks, taverns... Heck, if one must see people naked, we’re going to Tevinter! Surely they have bathhouses there? We even see those in a comic.
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Post by mattjamho on Oct 11, 2017 14:43:38 GMT
What about other things a city is bound to have? Banks, universities, churches, theaters, barracks, taverns... Heck, if one must see people naked, we’re going to Tevinter! Surely they have bathhouses there? We even see those in a comic. Actually...a bathhouse would be more in-keeping with Tevinter imo, as far as sordid activities go among nobles. It fits with their whole, keeping unsavory activities behind closed doors (blood magic, homosexuality etc) thing. Maybe they could have a standard bathhouse, with a reputation.
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Post by Iakus on Oct 11, 2017 14:46:37 GMT
The goal shouldn't be to tell a story. The goal should be to create a coherent world. I'm not sure where we would be that there would be no brothels. At least in a moddable game we could add our own. [/quote] I would argue that good storytelling starts with a coherent world.
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Post by majesticjazz on Oct 11, 2017 14:49:13 GMT
The only nonsense here is your inability or lack of desire to understand and admit what is plain as day. Plugging your ears and claiming "nonsense" doesn't make opposing arguments go away. It just makes you look the fool. The problem is that you're claiming that Bio is restricting itself from going where the story takes them, but there's no evidence. What's missing from DAI that should have been there? Why can't Bio simply decide that the story they want to tell doesn't include piece of content X? Again you miss the point. It isnt about Bioware being able to tell the story they want, it is about Bioware not telling a story with the similar tone and atmosphere as say DAO or DA2.
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Post by naughtynomad on Oct 11, 2017 15:10:52 GMT
If you can design a market full of random vendors, you can design a brothel full of random prostitutes. Make it a quest hub and you get more resources devoted to it. The point is, things like this add to the ambiance of the world. I personally feel like a city is much more alive when these things are included. Denerim was tiny in DAO, but felt much more lively than VR in Inquisition. One the reasons for this was, of course, the brothel. What about other things a city is bound to have? Banks, universities, churches, theaters, barracks, taverns... Heck, if one must see people naked, we’re going to Tevinter! Surely they have bathhouses there? Well we have seen churches in every dragon age game so far. Universities are similar the Circle of Magi. Barracks we've seen regularly. Taverns, multiple. A theater would be a nice touch. Its a shame there were none in Inquisition. So yes include all those things AND the brothels.
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Post by Iddy on Oct 11, 2017 15:56:33 GMT
I would suggest an alternative option: Convert to the Qun and enjoy those tamassran services.
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 11, 2017 16:25:18 GMT
The problem is that you're claiming that Bio is restricting itself from going where the story takes them, but there's no evidence. What's missing from DAI that should have been there? Why can't Bio simply decide that the story they want to tell doesn't include piece of content X? Again you miss the point. It isnt about Bioware being able to tell the story they want, it is about Bioware not telling a story with the similar tone and atmosphere as say DAO or DA2. But this isn't Bio restricting itself, this is Bio wanting something you don't want them to want. Different argument. As for whether that different argument is true, beats me. The evidence is simply not there. Bio shifts tones often enough. A few years ago people were complaining that the problem was that Bio was going all grimdark; DA2 and ME3 supposedly proved this.
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Post by Superhik on Oct 11, 2017 17:07:48 GMT
Again you miss the point. It isnt about Bioware being able to tell the story they want, it is about Bioware not telling a story with the similar tone and atmosphere as say DAO or DA2. But this isn't Bio restricting itself, this is Bio wanting something you don't want them to want. Different argument. As for whether that different argument is true, beats me. The evidence is simply not there. Bio shifts tones often enough. A few years ago people were complaining that the problem was that Bio was going all grimdark; DA2 and ME3 supposedly proved this. True, but you have to admit it's odd, considering the setting we don't see at least one Imperial house of Earthly delights. We don't want ol Tevinter to end up looking like this
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 11, 2017 17:28:24 GMT
Have to see the game first. Hell, maybe the business model doesn't work in Tevinter. Everything works on outcall, or you just buy your own personal slave for those services. (Much safer way to do it, for several reasons.)
Edit: this is easy for me to say since I'm pretty agnostic about tone in the first place. I thought that ME3 and ME:A's tones both worked, for instance.
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Post by Zatche on Oct 11, 2017 18:40:38 GMT
The problem is that you're claiming that Bio is restricting itself from going where the story takes them, but there's no evidence. What's missing from DAI that should have been there? Why can't Bio simply decide that the story they want to tell doesn't include piece of content X? Again you miss the point. It isnt about Bioware being able to tell the story they want, it is about Bioware not telling a story with the similar tone and atmosphere as say DAO or DA2. There's no single completely unified point on either side of this debate/arguments (or of most debates on here). "...to tell the story they wanted" was Naughtynomad's language. But fine, why is a brothel (where we can choose the "surprise me" option, fade to black, and find ourselves in a room with 2 nugs) so important to the atmosphere?
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Post by majesticjazz on Oct 11, 2017 19:36:42 GMT
Again you miss the point. It isnt about Bioware being able to tell the story they want, it is about Bioware not telling a story with the similar tone and atmosphere as say DAO or DA2. But this isn't Bio restricting itself, this is Bio wanting something you don't want them to want. Different argument. As for whether that different argument is true, beats me. The evidence is simply not there. Bio shifts tones often enough. A few years ago people were complaining that the problem was that Bio was going all grimdark; DA2 and ME3 supposedly proved this. Sigh, Again....I said nothing about Bioware restricting themselves. This is about the obvious change in tone from DAO and DA2 when compared to DAI.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 11, 2017 19:43:56 GMT
But this isn't Bio restricting itself, this is Bio wanting something you don't want them to want. Different argument. As for whether that different argument is true, beats me. The evidence is simply not there. Bio shifts tones often enough. A few years ago people were complaining that the problem was that Bio was going all grimdark; DA2 and ME3 supposedly proved this. Sigh, Again....I said nothing about Bioware restricting themselves. This is about the obvious change in tone from DAO and DA2 when compared to DAI. Yes you have. You've said multiple times how Bioware seems unwilling to go back to how the setting was in DAO and DA2 but instead this is a sign they will continue to sanitize the setting like they did in DAI. That fits under the definition of restricting, so that has been what you are saying, intentionally or unintentionally.
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Post by hero11n7 on Oct 11, 2017 20:24:20 GMT
Anyone else think this thread needs to die?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 11, 2017 20:27:59 GMT
Anyone else think this thread needs to die? Yes. Even the OP has pretty much washed their hands of this thread.
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 11, 2017 20:48:13 GMT
The talking points have been more or less exhausted.
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Post by cloud9 on Oct 11, 2017 21:00:43 GMT
Again you miss the point. It isnt about Bioware being able to tell the story they want, it is about Bioware not telling a story with the similar tone and atmosphere as say DAO or DA2. There's no single completely unified point on either side of this debate/arguments (or of most debates on here). "...to tell the story they wanted" was Naughtynomad's language. But fine, why is a brothel (where we can choose the "surprise me" option, fade to black, and find ourselves in a room with 2 nugs) so important to the atmosphere? They're optional to have sex with someone you know. No one is forcing players to see sex scenes. I'm beginning to think that people over here have issues with sex.
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Post by shechinah on Oct 11, 2017 21:19:15 GMT
There's no single completely unified point on either side of this debate/arguments (or of most debates on here). "...to tell the story they wanted" was Naughtynomad's language. But fine, why is a brothel (where we can choose the "surprise me" option, fade to black, and find ourselves in a room with 2 nugs) so important to the atmosphere? They're optional to have sex with someone you know. No one is forcing players to see sex scenes. I'm beginning to think that people over here have issues with sex. Zatche's comment is about atmosphere, not sex. Your post is another example of why a new thread should be made for discussing atmosphere.
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