Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 5,901 Likes: 8,929
inherit
1561
0
Apr 29, 2024 21:10:16 GMT
8,929
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
5,901
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
4392
882
|
Post by Sanunes on Nov 15, 2017 23:13:43 GMT
Most publishers try to down play their monetisation of games. Biowares CFO doesn't seem to care and embraces it. He even boasts about finding more ways to keep milking the player base. Sounds like EA is moving entirely toward online mp action games. This really doesn't bode well for DA4 or anything other SP rpg we might have been hoping for from Bioware. I don't know if I really want to see what becomes of DA4, if they even release it. Its not just EA where people are praising it, the other publishers financial officers brag non-stop to their shareholders about lootboxes and microtransactions, they are just looking for new terms so they won't piss off the internet.
|
|
inherit
57
0
1
Apr 29, 2024 14:05:50 GMT
32,677
SofaJockey
Not a jockey. Has a sofa.
13,129
August 2016
sofajockey
SofaJockey
SofaJockey
6000
7164
|
Post by SofaJockey on Nov 16, 2017 8:38:04 GMT
I think this Twitter stream is rather good. (marginally edited to include an author correction)
Damion Schubert, Dark Warlord of Game Design @zenofdesign
Let's talk lootboxes, and how annoying it is to watch AAA publishers fuck them up from the perspective of someone who has to design to them. (1)
I've been working in Free-to-Play games for 4 years, and loot boxes are pretty crucial to that business model working. But it *is* possible to do them ethically, and they are super easy to fuck up. (2)
The number one mistake that I've seen in F2P games is devs who don't understand that NOT SPENDING IS NORMAL PLAY. Most of your customers will NEVER give you a dime. (3)
The Zynga Facebook games that used to spam your feed were a success if they had a conversion rate of 2%. That's right - a successful business model if 98% of your population never drops a dime. (4)
Things have edged up since then, and ppl designing these have gotten more sophisticated, but we're still in a world where the guys who plan microtransactions are DELIGHTED if 5% spend. (5)
What this means, though is that the non-spendy version of the game is the NORM. The game that you see as a non-spender is what 90%+ of your customers will see. (6)
Dungeon Keeper on mobile failed because what those people saw was a game where spending was absolutely mandatory. That view of the game killed the game. (7)
Because that 90%+ of the population is your game's virality (also known as "word of mouth"). If your free players (or in the case of Battlefront, box spenders) have a negative reax it can kill word of mouth, tank reviews, etc. (8)
Some ppl think that game devs don't care about keeping that 90%+, but that's not true. Most of these games NEED those non-spendy players because they're multiplayer games. (9)
In MMOs, you need ppl so that dungeon queues will fire. In PvP games, you need enough people to make a match - and matchmake them with appropriate enemies. (10)
This is much more true in AAA games where the PvP is synchronous than in mobile games where the PvP is against offline opponents frequently (see the core Clash of Clans game) (11)
So what Battlefront got wrong was to put content that people consider core behind a hugely long grind path. They missed that this would be seen as the 'normal' game. (12)
And one more thing: once you go into microtransactions, players start suspecting they are your motives for everything. (13)
So even in the scenario was a game designer that (for example) accidentally put an unlock behind an 80 hour grind because he fat fingered it, or because he just likes grinds or hard games, players will assume the company is making a money grab. (14)
That's because in a lot of cases, the players are correct. Bringing microtransactions into things erases the benefit of the doubt. (15)
I still am a huge proponent of Free to Play because I'm a big hippy. I *like* the idea that 98% of my population can play for free. (16)
And a lot of research has been done to find that most heavy spenders ('whales') are people who like spending and don't feel manipulated into it. Think high-powered lawyers with too much spare cash lying around. (17)
I'm pretty fine with those guys paying a lot of money so that a whole bunch of kids w/o money or credit cards can play my games for free. (18)
In talks in the past, I've compared it to the old Patron system in Renaissance times, where kings and rich dudes would subsidize art so everyone could enjoy it. (19)
But still, good MTX design is an art. It requires designers to be equal partners with Product Managers to come up with something that is perceived as fair and is celebrated. (20)
People like @jimsterling would disagree, but the difference between Overwatch & Battlefront is stark. People CELEBRATE new skins being added to the former. (21)
When a new Magic or Hearthstone set comes out, people CELEBRATE the opportunity to spend more. Same for a new FIFA season. (22)
This is important. MTX will fail if it *doesn't feel good to spend*. It will fail if it creates a poisonous environment around the game instead of excitement. (23)
Anyway, I need to hit the road to a convention, but these thoughts have been rattling around my brain for a few days now. (fin)
|
|
inherit
8885
0
7,210
river82
4,946
July 2017
river82
|
Post by river82 on Nov 16, 2017 8:46:09 GMT
Okay, that was an interesting read
|
|
inherit
410
0
Apr 27, 2024 14:05:42 GMT
2,856
Sartoz
6,027
August 2016
sartoz
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Sartoz on Nov 16, 2017 13:00:09 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Absolutely a good read and revealing.
If 2-5% of the player base is all that's needed for a "successful game" then Anthem has a chance, provided game progression and the credit paywall for content unlocking is seen as "normal" play. Unfortunately, with EA's CFO so enthusiastic about Anthem, my feeling is that EA may push the Bio devs to be more aggressive with their MTs for the "dastardly" purpose of raking in the cash to the point of breaking the player's illusion" of "normal play" into the realm pf "predatory".
(🌸=◡=)
|
|
inherit
410
0
Apr 27, 2024 14:05:42 GMT
2,856
Sartoz
6,027
August 2016
sartoz
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Sartoz on Nov 16, 2017 13:18:24 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
DICE participated in an AMA session on REDDIT to address some recent hot topics regarding BF2. That's good....
However I found his answers were designed to soothe with no specifics.... like "we hear you", "we are committed"....
(🌸=◡=)
EDIT: This utube video analyzes the AMA responses from Dice's devs and includes the questions asked. I found it interesting.
|
|
linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,179 Likes: 4,063
inherit
Always teacher, sometimes writer
370
0
4,063
linksocarina
Teaching Mode Activated
3,179
August 2016
linksocarina
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
LinksOcarina
|
Post by linksocarina on Nov 16, 2017 14:51:58 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
DICE participated in an AMA session on REDDIT to address some recent hot topics regarding BF2. That's good....
However I found his answers were designed to soothe with no specifics.... like "we hear you", "we are committed"....
(🌸=◡=)
EDIT: This utube video analyzes the AMA responses from Dice's devs and includes the questions asked. I found it interesting.
That is mostly PR speak to just placate the crowd. It's them basically going "we know, you asked this already." and all of that.
|
|
inherit
2550
0
1,958
majesticjazz
2,015
January 2017
majesticjazz
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by majesticjazz on Nov 17, 2017 1:04:41 GMT
|
|
inherit
ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
440
0
24,190
phoray
Dreadnaw Rising
12,573
August 2016
phoray
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by phoray on Nov 17, 2017 2:19:32 GMT
Possibly laziest post ever.
What is there to trust about, it's not like it's an IP taken from a book or movie series.
|
|
inherit
✜ Forge Mechanic
352
0
Aug 30, 2023 16:01:17 GMT
6,256
PapaCharlie9
3,851
August 2016
papacharlie9
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by PapaCharlie9 on Nov 17, 2017 2:44:45 GMT
Good. The only thing that can kill a new franchise faster than predatory "recurring customer revenue" is overhyped expectations. All the FUD EA is creating, no doubt entirely unintentionally, may take some of the unreasonable expectation pressure off. CDPR needs to announce pay-2-win lootboxes for Cyperpunk2077 NOW!
|
|
Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 5,901 Likes: 8,929
inherit
1561
0
Apr 29, 2024 21:10:16 GMT
8,929
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
5,901
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
4392
882
|
Post by Sanunes on Nov 17, 2017 6:08:42 GMT
What is wrong with people that they would trust any game this far out from release? Mechanics and styles change over time and between titles as they chase the largest demographic they can find while maximizing profit. Even the new cherished developer is demonstrating this with Cyberpunk 2077 by talking about being always online with social hubs like Destiny.
|
|
inherit
57
0
1
Apr 29, 2024 14:05:50 GMT
32,677
SofaJockey
Not a jockey. Has a sofa.
13,129
August 2016
sofajockey
SofaJockey
SofaJockey
6000
7164
|
Post by SofaJockey on Nov 17, 2017 7:36:50 GMT
We already have a thread discussing microtransactions and lootboxes and indirectly Battlefront II, so that's where these posts can go...
|
|
inherit
Elvis has left the building
9443
0
324
Gandalf the Fabulous
716
Oct 12, 2017 11:02:40 GMT
October 2017
gandalfthefabulous
|
Post by Gandalf the Fabulous on Nov 17, 2017 9:36:40 GMT
What is wrong with people that they would trust any game this far out from release? Mechanics and styles change over time and between titles as they chase the largest demographic they can find while maximizing profit. Even the new cherished developer is demonstrating this with Cyberpunk 2077 by talking about being always online with social hubs like Destiny. Have they specifically stated Cyberpunk 2077 will be always online? To be honest there is nothing inherently wrong with online features and multiplayer making their way into a game and in regards to Cyberpunk 2077 we should probably wait to see what form they take before we hit the panic button.
|
|
inherit
265
0
Apr 26, 2024 22:14:28 GMT
11,980
Pounce de León
Praise the Justicat!
7,910
August 2016
catastrophy
caustic_agent
|
Post by Pounce de León on Nov 17, 2017 10:02:53 GMT
They've temporarily pulled MTs from Battlefront II. Let's see how this plays out for the future.
|
|
inherit
57
0
1
Apr 29, 2024 14:05:50 GMT
32,677
SofaJockey
Not a jockey. Has a sofa.
13,129
August 2016
sofajockey
SofaJockey
SofaJockey
6000
7164
|
Post by SofaJockey on Nov 17, 2017 11:46:02 GMT
They've temporarily pulled MTs from Battlefront II. Let's see how this plays out for the future. I think it's going to be fascinating. Just the Battlefront II User Review on MetaCritic is eye watering... EA/DICE are in open panic. The good will going into Anthem is likely to be highly conditional.BioWare cannot judge this wrongly.
|
|
inherit
265
0
Apr 26, 2024 22:14:28 GMT
11,980
Pounce de León
Praise the Justicat!
7,910
August 2016
catastrophy
caustic_agent
|
Post by Pounce de León on Nov 17, 2017 11:48:23 GMT
They've temporarily pulled MTs from Battlefront II. Let's see how this plays out for the future. I think it's going to be fascinating. Just the Battlefront II User Review on MetaCritic is eye watering... EA/DICE are in open panic. The good will going into Anthem is likely to be highly conditional.BioWare cannot judge this wrongly. Mhm, I dunno - I imagine Anthem more like a coop game and that isn't as prone to p2w outrage.
|
|
inherit
57
0
1
Apr 29, 2024 14:05:50 GMT
32,677
SofaJockey
Not a jockey. Has a sofa.
13,129
August 2016
sofajockey
SofaJockey
SofaJockey
6000
7164
|
Post by SofaJockey on Nov 17, 2017 12:15:17 GMT
it has been proven in the past that with a nasty enough backlash, companies tend to back down at least to a degree. In fact, the only power consumers have in this equation, is their ability to avoid buying something, and their ability to generate controversy on the internet. You said it...
|
|
mmoblitz
N3
USN-Retired
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: mmoblitz
PSN: NotPC
Posts: 515 Likes: 590
inherit
1777
0
Jan 20, 2022 10:02:17 GMT
590
mmoblitz
USN-Retired
515
Oct 11, 2016 11:10:36 GMT
October 2016
mmoblitz
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
mmoblitz
NotPC
|
Post by mmoblitz on Nov 17, 2017 12:18:02 GMT
It appears Disney CEO got involved and that's when EA decided to turn off MT, for now... Click me
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
9520
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2017 12:27:28 GMT
I'm interested to see what the industry as a whole does from this point onward. EA made a massive example of themselves and kicked up a ton of dust with this.
|
|
inherit
424
0
Feb 21, 2024 22:47:00 GMT
5,963
Andrew Waples
3,875
August 2016
andrewwaples1
eaglefan129
|
Post by Andrew Waples on Nov 17, 2017 13:10:33 GMT
I'm interested to see what the industry as a whole does from this point onward. EA made a massive example of themselves and kicked up a ton of dust with this. It's not like EA is the first triple A publisher to offer microtrancations in it's games. So, why not the hate for the other publishers? I think there a people that jump on the bandwagon because it's fun to hate EA. When other publishers do the same thing.
|
|
inherit
265
0
Apr 26, 2024 22:14:28 GMT
11,980
Pounce de León
Praise the Justicat!
7,910
August 2016
catastrophy
caustic_agent
|
Post by Pounce de León on Nov 17, 2017 13:17:34 GMT
I'm interested to see what the industry as a whole does from this point onward. EA made a massive example of themselves and kicked up a ton of dust with this. It's not like EA is the first triple A publisher to offer microtrancations in it's games. So, why not the hate for the other publishers? I think there a people that jump on the bandwagon because it's fun to hate EA. When other publishers do the same thing. No, people just don't like paid advantages in competitive games. That, and it might just be the point where people had it with the MT craziness this year.
|
|
inherit
57
0
1
Apr 29, 2024 14:05:50 GMT
32,677
SofaJockey
Not a jockey. Has a sofa.
13,129
August 2016
sofajockey
SofaJockey
SofaJockey
6000
7164
|
Post by SofaJockey on Nov 17, 2017 13:21:40 GMT
It's not like EA is the first triple A publisher to offer microtrancations in it's games. So, why not the hate for the other publishers? I think there a people that jump on the bandwagon because it's fun to hate EA. When other publishers do the same thing. That's kind of true, but it's about how they are implemented. If the MTX's are implemented in a less predatory manner, and alongside reasonable earn-rates in-game, then they can be tolerable ME3, for example, had a largely successful model in ME3MP.
|
|
inherit
410
0
Apr 27, 2024 14:05:42 GMT
2,856
Sartoz
6,027
August 2016
sartoz
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Sartoz on Nov 17, 2017 14:09:51 GMT
They've temporarily pulled MTs from Battlefront II. Let's see how this plays out for the future. -(_ANTHEM_)-
Yeah, they did.
However, I can't shake the feeling that the original game progression and earned credits via time played packaged with the 60K credits required to unlock a single major hero was by design and approved by EA. Also, I'm sure the potential negative backlash was expected and EA/DICE prepared a fallback position. Ergo, that announcement of reducing the unlocking credits by 75%, which, btw, was done rather quickly... as if the game was prepared for this eventuality. In any case, EA/DICE could honestly say , "hey we heard you and made ajustments". It failed to work, imo.
It's possible Disney became concerned this game would negatively effect their upcoming Star Wars movie and leaned on EA. Therefore that MT suspension announcement.
The link below adds more info from a telephone conversation with EA (around 1:15AM GMT, today). Suffice to say, more PR and as someone else posted, these MTs are coming back at a later date. In the meantime, DICE needs to make more balance changes (because of the MT suspension?).
And there is now a Whitehouse petition going on regarding loot boxes. Seems like EA, in their greed, opened a can of worms.
(🌸=◡=)
|
|
Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 5,901 Likes: 8,929
inherit
1561
0
Apr 29, 2024 21:10:16 GMT
8,929
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
5,901
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
4392
882
|
Post by Sanunes on Nov 17, 2017 16:45:22 GMT
It's not like EA is the first triple A publisher to offer microtrancations in it's games. So, why not the hate for the other publishers? I think there a people that jump on the bandwagon because it's fun to hate EA. When other publishers do the same thing. No, people just don't like paid advantages in competitive games. That, and it might just be the point where people had it with the MT craziness this year. Then why wasn't this level of outrage towards Shadow of War? Where you are at an unfair advantage with microtransactions as well? Edit: Or why aren't people this upset at Disney for they control the IP and if a few reports I have read are accurate they were restrictive on what EA could do.
|
|
inherit
265
0
Apr 26, 2024 22:14:28 GMT
11,980
Pounce de León
Praise the Justicat!
7,910
August 2016
catastrophy
caustic_agent
|
Post by Pounce de León on Nov 17, 2017 16:54:13 GMT
No, people just don't like paid advantages in competitive games. That, and it might just be the point where people had it with the MT craziness this year. Then why wasn't this level of outrage towards Shadow of War? Where you are at an unfair advantage with microtransactions as well? Edit: Or why aren't people this upset at Disney for they control the IP and if a few reports I have read are accurate they were restrictive on what EA could do. I don't know. Shadow of War has MP? Probably not so many playing it. I did however receive heavy criticism for their loot boxes in SP. And Disney didn't code p2w mechanics, they just get rich leeching off their license.
|
|
Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 5,901 Likes: 8,929
inherit
1561
0
Apr 29, 2024 21:10:16 GMT
8,929
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
5,901
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
4392
882
|
Post by Sanunes on Nov 17, 2017 16:55:14 GMT
What is wrong with people that they would trust any game this far out from release? Mechanics and styles change over time and between titles as they chase the largest demographic they can find while maximizing profit. Even the new cherished developer is demonstrating this with Cyberpunk 2077 by talking about being always online with social hubs like Destiny. Have they specifically stated Cyberpunk 2077 will be always online? To be honest there is nothing inherently wrong with online features and multiplayer making their way into a game and in regards to Cyberpunk 2077 we should probably wait to see what form they take before we hit the panic button. You are correct they haven't announced that it will be always online, but they keep talking about online features so it is my expectation now. I do take exception that there is nothing wrong with online features and multiplayer for people are pissed at BioWare for doing that with their last three games because it ruined the other elements and how much better the games could have been and made them into the boogie man to justify their hatred. I am not hitting the panic button, but I am expecting a game that will be going against everything they said they stand for with The Witcher 3 based on the features and other things they have talked about publicly that they are including in Cyberpunk.
|
|