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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 14, 2017 15:36:08 GMT
I agree with you here. It did come as a surprise to me that Varric would be so casual about giving away the key to the city's main defence. The chains had also been misused by a city ruler in the past and I assume that he gives you the key no matter what type of Inquisitor you have been (is there any way of ending up on his bad side apart from not dealing with the red lyrium?) So Bran was entirely right to object.
Giving away the title to an estate (probably the one Fenris was hanging around in for so long) may have been within his remit and considered okay but the key? I think Averline would also have had something to say about that.
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Post by shinary on Oct 14, 2017 16:13:44 GMT
One of the oddest endings for me was when I tried having a mage Hawke support the Templars and then they all bowed the knee to me at the end. I had this vision in my mind of Fenris' head exploding (metaphorically) at the sight. It was like his worst nightmare, even though he was romancing me. So with that scenario it wouldn't have come as much of a surprise if the Templars thought better of it later. Hmm... they will kneel enough before Divine Vivienne, if the Inquisitor let her win... poor Fenris, a Magister Divine (I suppose he would feel great desire to join to the qun...)! lol! I would almost consider joining the Qun for that reason... Then again Solas might be the better option. He is smart and powerful enough to make her life MISERABLE! 
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Post by fylimar on Oct 16, 2017 19:16:03 GMT
I guess, Varric knows, that Anders will be more stable with Hawke on his side, so he might tolerate Blondie. Plus, he (Varric) is a good person and as that banter between Cole and Varric suggests, he might find it in him to forgive Anders some day. I guess there is nothing worse than the betrayal of a good friends and it seemed to me, that Varric and Anders were exactly that in DA2.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2017 19:55:28 GMT
I agree with you here. It did come as a surprise to me that Varric would be so casual about giving away the key to the city's main defence. The chains had also been misused by a city ruler in the past and I assume that he gives you the key no matter what type of Inquisitor you have been (is there any way of ending up on his bad side apart from not dealing with the red lyrium?) So Bran was entirely right to object. Giving away the title to an estate (probably the one Fenris was hanging around in for so long) may have been within his remit and considered okay but the key? I think Averline would also have had something to say about that. I don't remember being friendly with him, and my Inquisitor was a Qunari. Varric all but forced the keys on him in front of his underling. He should be tried for treason, truth be told.
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Post by Artemis on Oct 16, 2017 21:15:43 GMT
I agree with you here. It did come as a surprise to me that Varric would be so casual about giving away the key to the city's main defence. The chains had also been misused by a city ruler in the past and I assume that he gives you the key no matter what type of Inquisitor you have been (is there any way of ending up on his bad side apart from not dealing with the red lyrium?) So Bran was entirely right to object. Giving away the title to an estate (probably the one Fenris was hanging around in for so long) may have been within his remit and considered okay but the key? I think Averline would also have had something to say about that. I don't remember being friendly with him, and my Inquisitor was a Qunari. Varric all but forced the keys on him in front of his underling. He should be tried for treason, truth be told. Varric, like Garrus, is just written in as the "bro" character, whether you like him or not. That key scene reminds me of the scene at the end of ME3 when Garrus is all "There's no Shepard without Vakarian," and I'm like, dude, I have literally never taken you on a single mission lol
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2017 21:19:25 GMT
I don't remember being friendly with him, and my Inquisitor was a Qunari. Varric all but forced the keys on him in front of his underling. He should be tried for treason, truth be told. Varric, like Garrus, is just written in as the "bro" character, whether you like him or not. That key scene reminds me of the scene at the end of ME3 when Garrus is all "There's no Shepard without Vakarian," and I'm like, dude, I have literally never taken you on a single mission lol I understand, but Garrus does not hand Shepard Turian navy codes just in case. Garrus may be delusional, but Varric's behaviour is just... bizarre.
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Post by morir_a_solas on Oct 17, 2017 4:49:16 GMT
Varric, like Garrus, is just written in as the "bro" character, whether you like him or not. That key scene reminds me of the scene at the end of ME3 when Garrus is all "There's no Shepard without Vakarian," and I'm like, dude, I have literally never taken you on a single mission lol I understand, but Garrus does not hand Shepard Turian navy codes just in case. Garrus may be delusional, but Varric's behaviour is just... bizarre. it’s not perfect, I did Dorians quest and then left him there for 100+ hours and I still got the best friend talk and the crystal even thought I hadn’t talked to him or taken him with me for so long I forgot he was there
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 17, 2017 8:26:03 GMT
That's it really in a nutshell. If you do the person's personal quest then the reaction from then on will generally be a positive one. I haven't explored the actual mechanics as some people have but I assume you get a big load of approval points for carrying out the quest that generally offset any negative approval you might subsequently receive.
So the only way to get genuine negative approval from Varric is to not do his personal quest. However, I think destroying red lyrium counts to some extent and you cannot really avoid doing that: I mean why would you? I can't remember but is it even possible to refuse to do the Bianca quest? Again, why would anyone do so since we know it has something to do with red lyrium smuggling?
I assume that not doing Dorian's quest is pre-requisite to having negative approval and eventually ending up with him leaving immediately after Corypheus has been defeated or the Inquisitor punching him so he leaves before the end. In the latter case he definitely does not see the Inquisitor as his friend at the Exalted Council and does not give them the crystal.
Presumably, if you don't do Varric's red lyrium quest then you would have sufficient negative approval that don't get the key. However, it is hard to see how an Inquisitor would not do the quest as it is more important than simply sorting out Varric's personal life. I've just checked and apparently how you deal with his altercation with Cassandra seems very important to your relationship. Essentially you have to agree with Cassandra on pretty much every statement she makes and blame Varric, which seems unlikely but there you go. So the conditions are probably such that it is impossible for you not to be given key.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Oct 17, 2017 10:18:18 GMT
Varric may grant Anders a pardon if Hawke vouches for him, or perhaps Hawke and Anders live outside the city limits in some nice country house but still close enough for Hawke to help. And he did forgive Bianca relatively easy for being the cause of red lyrium being spread all over southern Thedas. Well, for one thing there's the lover thing. That's not important in the grand scheme of things, but it's large to him. For another thing what she did wasn't entirely stupid. Her logic is founded on decent premises: red lyrium is Blighted and magical, mages know magic, and Grey Wardens want to protect others from the Blight. Her main mistake is that she gets the one Warden mage who's possessed by Corypheus in on the thaig's location.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2017 11:40:28 GMT
I understand, but Garrus does not hand Shepard Turian navy codes just in case. Garrus may be delusional, but Varric's behaviour is just... bizarre. it’s not perfect, I did Dorians quest and then left him there for 100+ hours and I still got the best friend talk and the crystal even thought I hadn’t talked to him or taken him with me for so long I forgot he was there It's not about professing the undying friendship on a very slim basis that irritates me, it's the very act of actually betraying Kirkwall when he already usurped Hawke's heritage. It just really, really does not sit well with me.
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Post by fylimar on Oct 19, 2017 17:38:54 GMT
Varric, like Garrus, is just written in as the "bro" character, whether you like him or not. That key scene reminds me of the scene at the end of ME3 when Garrus is all "There's no Shepard without Vakarian," and I'm like, dude, I have literally never taken you on a single mission lol I understand, but Garrus does not hand Shepard Turian navy codes just in case. Garrus may be delusional, but Varric's behaviour is just... bizarre. I'm not sure, if it's a cultural thing, but here in Germany, giving someone the 'key to the city' just means, this someone is honoured in that city. It's usually a high ranking politician, a celebrity, who did something for that city, someone who had shown courage or a mayor from a befriended city, so the inquisitor would fit. And the key isn't literally unlocking the secrets, treasues, whatever of the city, it's just a symbol of trust. I only played Trespasser once so far, but I did took Varrics key as symbolic, like 'you will always have allies in Kirkwall', not as literally 'hey, help yourself to the Kirkwall treasure and pick up some dirty secrets on the way', so imo, it's not exactly Turian navy codes.
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Post by Artemis on Oct 19, 2017 18:23:24 GMT
I understand, but Garrus does not hand Shepard Turian navy codes just in case. Garrus may be delusional, but Varric's behaviour is just... bizarre. I'm not sure, if it's a cultural thing, but here in Germany, giving someone the 'key to the city' just means, this someone is honoured in that city. It's usually a high ranking politician, a celebrity, who did something for that city, someone who had shown courage or a mayor from a befriended city, so the inquisitor would fit. And the key isn't literally unlocking the secrets, treasues, whatever of the city, it's just a symbol of trust. I only played Trespasser once so far, but I did took Varrics key as symbolic, like 'you will always have allies in Kirkwall', not as literally 'hey, help yourself to the Kirkwall treasure and pick up some dirty secrets on the way', so imo, it's not exactly Turian navy codes. Yeah, it's the same here in the states, too.
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 19, 2017 19:58:01 GMT
I took it to be merely symbolic until Bran revealed that it was one of the keys used on the chains across Kirkwall's harbour, so not symbolic at all. Then you can even ask if you are allowed to use it. It is as though the writer had seen a synopsis of Varric as an ordinary citizen of Kirkwall and thought he would act no more responsibly as Viscount, which to be honest I think does not do Varric justice. He may not have wanted the role of Viscount but he does care about Kirkwall, so I think he wouldn't be so casual about it as they make him out to be. After all, he is an astute business man so he must know when levity is appropriate and when it is not.
A lot of the humour connected with Varric in Trespasser was a bit off as though the people writing it didn't realise the significance of what he was saying or what other people thought he said. The joke over the marriage proposal with Cassandra was another example. May be she had misunderstood him but the writer of that clearly hadn't thought how bad it would seem to a Solas romance (she's been pining for 2 years and everyone bar Cassandra and Varric seem sympathetic to that fact) or a Dorian romance (I learned straight after it that Dorian was leaving) or even a Cassandra romance (it was excruciatingly awkward and embarrassing for my character.
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Post by Artemis on Oct 19, 2017 20:00:59 GMT
I took it to be merely symbolic until Bran revealed that it was one of the keys used on the chains across Kirkwall's harbour, so not symbolic at all. Then you can even ask if you are allowed to use it. It is as though the writer had seen a synopsis of Varric as an ordinary citizen of Kirkwall and thought he would act no more responsibly as Viscount, which to be honest I think does not do Varric justice. He may not have wanted the role of Viscount but he does care about Kirkwall, so I think he wouldn't be so casual about it as they make him out to be. After all, he is an astute business man so he must know when levity is appropriate and when it is not. A lot of the humour connected with Varric in Trespasser was a bit off as though the people writing it didn't realise the significance of what he was saying or what other people thought he said. The joke over the marriage proposal with Cassandra was another example. May be she had misunderstood him but the writer of that clearly hadn't thought how bad it would seem to a Solas romance (she's been pining for 2 years and everyone bar Cassandra and Varric seem sympathetic to that fact) or a Dorian romance (I learned straight after it that Dorian was leaving) or even a Cassandra romance (it was excruciatingly awkward and embarrassing for my character. That happens a lot in the Dragon Age franchise -- inconsistency in the writing of various characters. I think that's what happens when you have a bunch of different people writing at the same time. A head writer is supposed to smooth those inconsistencies out.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2017 1:43:30 GMT
I had the same impression as gervaise - at first I thought he was honouring Inquisitor, but then they clarified it actually was the key to the harbour defence, and the chain that locks out the harbour is pretty much a wall on the sea side in the medieval ports. So, Varric literally gives the Inquisitor the ability to sail a fleet into the City of Kirkwall unopposed.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Oct 21, 2017 4:35:37 GMT
I know I am nitpicking here, but I can't imagine any scenario, where Anders would be welcome back at Kirkwall. So either my Hawke left Anders in a cave somewhere, or they went by the black emporium. I didn't romance Anders, but I'm not fond that that forced epilogue, either. I'm not really into Kirkwall as a place or the idea of my Hawke helping Varric run things. As a player, I look at it as the devs having a singular path for the living Hawke which grants them a happy ending, but is also unambiguous in order to allow for future use or something along those lines. Think about the various paths in DAO and how those can't be supported, so now we either have the Warden as dead or off chasing a cure for the Calling.
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Post by Sah291 on Oct 25, 2017 16:51:44 GMT
I had the same impression as gervaise - at first I thought he was honouring Inquisitor, but then they clarified it actually was the key to the harbour defence, and the chain that locks out the harbour is pretty much a wall on the sea side in the medieval ports. So, Varric literally gives the Inquisitor the ability to sail a fleet into the City of Kirkwall unopposed. Wait, really? I thought the same thing, that it was just a symbolic gesture "key to the city" type thing. I guess then Varric isn't giving it to the Inquisitor personally because they are friends, but officially pledging the city of Kirkwall as an ally to the Inquisition and giving them full access to their harbour for trade and military operations (in exchange for their continued aid and protection I imagine--so not necessarily something Varric just did on a whim). Which I guess becomes moot by the end of Tresspasser anyway, after the Inquisition is disbanded or turned over to the Chantry as a peace keeping organization. So maybe the Inquisitor returns it in that case. I'm going to headcanon she does. 
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Oct 25, 2017 21:33:29 GMT
It's a stupid joke that Bioware's writers didn't bother to consider the political or security consequences of.
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Post by Artemis on Oct 25, 2017 21:48:48 GMT
It's a stupid joke that Bioware's writers didn't bother to consider the political or security consequences of. Yes lol Thank you.
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Oct 25, 2017 21:55:47 GMT
It's a stupid joke that Bioware's writers didn't bother to consider the political or security consequences of. Yes lol Thank you. I should have also played added that the only reason we are is because DA4 is literally years away and we've started running out of topics to argue about. Maybe I should create a "Corypheus did nothing wrong" thread...
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Post by Catilina on Oct 25, 2017 21:59:09 GMT
I should have also played added that the only reason we are is because DA4 is literally years away and we've started running out of topics to argue about. Maybe I should create a "Corypheus did nothing wrong" thread...Hmm... now I really confused: that was a real question? He did any wrong?
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Oct 25, 2017 22:09:39 GMT
I should have also played added that the only reason we are is because DA4 is literally years away and we've started running out of topics to argue about. Maybe I should create a "Corypheus did nothing wrong" thread...Hmm... now I really confused: that was a real question? He did any wrong? Nah, dude I'm being completely sincere. Corypheus was just an innocent darkspawn magister with a cute pet dragon that wanted to save the world from political division and godlessness. The Inquisitor and their band of terrorist thugs were true villains in DAI. Corypheus was unfairly misunderstood and demonized for the simple crime of being curious about ancient elven artifacts. His murder and martyrdom is a tragedy that all of Thedas should mourn.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 25, 2017 22:14:43 GMT
Hmm... now I really confused: that was a real question? He did any wrong? Nah, dude I'm being completely sincere. Corypheus was just an innocent darkspawn magister with a cute pet dragon that wanted to save the world from political division and godlessness. The Inquisitor and their band of terrorist thugs were true villains in DAI. Corypheus was unfairly misunderstood and demonized for the simple crime of being curious about ancient elven artifacts. His murder and martyrdom is a tragedy that all of Thedas should mourn. I would join your topic! Corypheus needs more love! Look at this confused face! 
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Oct 25, 2017 22:19:37 GMT
Nah, dude I'm being completely sincere. Corypheus was just an innocent darkspawn magister with a cute pet dragon that wanted to save the world from political division and godlessness. The Inquisitor and their band of terrorist thugs were true villains in DAI. Corypheus was unfairly misunderstood and demonized for the simple crime of being curious about ancient elven artifacts. His murder and martyrdom is a tragedy that all of Thedas should mourn. I would join your topic! Corypheus needs more love! Look at this confused face!  His sense of style needs to mentioned more enough as well. The guy was a total fashionista shoe designer.  Josephine and Vivienne are sooooooo jealous.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 25, 2017 22:28:31 GMT
I would join your topic! Corypheus needs more love! Look at this confused face His sense of style needs to mentioned more enough as well. The guy was a total fashionista shoe designer. Josephine and Vivienne are sooooooo jealous. Indeed! The Architect was a hobo, compared to him! What a shame!
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