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Post by Guts on Nov 15, 2017 0:52:42 GMT
I'm a gun enthusiast and I'm curious if you guys think the guns from Mass Effect would be more practical compared to 21st century firearms. Something like the M8 Avenger: Compared to the AK-12:
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Post by Darth Dennis on Nov 15, 2017 23:56:51 GMT
ME's firearms aren't practical at all. The whole complex mass accelerator stuff would be so complicated to maintain, I'd expect. Although they are mass produced so much that it might not be so bad. And it gets worse when the third game established that swords are more effective than bullets in the ME universe apparently, so all that technology is pointless.
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Post by RedCaesar97 on Nov 16, 2017 2:54:46 GMT
ME's firearms aren't practical at all. The whole complex mass accelerator stuff would be so complicated to maintain, I'd expect. Although they are mass produced so much that it might not be so bad. And it gets worse when the third game established that swords are more effective than bullets in the ME universe apparently, so all that technology is pointless. In ME3, it is quicker to beat an enemy to death with the Avenger than it is to shoot them with it.
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Post by RedCaesar97 on Nov 16, 2017 3:18:44 GMT
To answer the original post, I am not a gun enthusiast (I don't actually know all that much about guns) but if I had to answer your question, I will have to break it down by game, since the lore changes a bit between them.
Modern guns versus Mass Effect 1 guns: Modern guns need be reloaded and each gun can require different ammunition. The amount of spare ammunition you can carry is limited.
ME1 guns have practically unlimited ammunition*. They do not need to be reloaded; rather they can overheat, at which point you must wait until they cool down before you can use them again. Certain mods allow you to reduce the heat buildup; it is possible to mod your weapons so they never overheat, allowing you to fire almost indefinitely.
* Note that weapons in the Mass Effect universe do not have unlimited ammunition. Rather, most of the weapons chip off ammunition from an internal block. This block can eventually be exhausted. This lore was probably created to serve the gameplay, but it carried through all three games.
ME1 guns can be jammed by a someone else with an Omni Tool (Sabotage power).
ME1 guns probably come out on top over modern guns. You, or an enemy would need Sabotage to even the odds.
Modern guns versus Mass Effect 2 guns: Guns in Mass Effect 2 no longer overheat. Rather they use heatsinks. This requires you to 'reload the weapon' by replacing the heatsink. Lore-wise, this was done so that guns can deal more damage, and with good reloading can still improve damage-per-second over the old overheat mechanic. This lore was probably created to serve the new gameplay mechanics, an improvement in my opinion.
ME2 guns essentially use ammo now, but all guns use the same ammo (heatsinks). ME2 guns can still be jammed by someone else using an Omni Tool (Overload rank 3), but only Shepard and his squadmates appear to have this capability.
ME2 guns still come out on top over modern guns, unless no heatsinks are nearby or you have a really good Overload. It is unclear if you can re-use heatsinks if they were to cool down; I do not recall if this was mentioned in the codex.
Modern guns versus Mass Effect 3 guns: Mass Effect 3 guns are a weird mix of mostly heatsink-based guns with some ME1-style overheat-based guns. The Overheat-based guns break the lore established in ME2 by dealing more damage than some heatsink-based buns. And at least one gun (Reegar) is heatsink-based but does not appear to use an ammo block.
ME3 guns no longer appear to be able to be jammed by another person; no Sabotage or Overload can cause the weapons to overheat.
ME3 guns likely better than modern guns. The Avenger is only deadly in cutscenes.
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Post by Inosha T'Rynn on Nov 16, 2017 15:22:07 GMT
ME's firearms aren't practical at all. The whole complex mass accelerator stuff would be so complicated to maintain, I'd expect. Although they are mass produced so much that it might not be so bad. And it gets worse when the third game established that swords are more effective than bullets in the ME universe apparently, so all that technology is pointless. "You got your big, bubbly butt kicked by some guy with a sword!" That line from Jack kills me every time. Well, then there's the whole case for my Shepard's favorite gun, the Harrier: Giant white and yellow thing as loud and massive as the eye can see, and its large size probably would make it hard for her to sight it in. Even if it has electronic doodads to help her shoot, what happens when weapons fire impacting it while its bumping around on her ass, or a poorly timed tackle from a squadmate takes out those electronic doodads and she has to use old fashioned irons? Then, there is the idea of lugging around or shoulder-firing some of these monsters. In reality, an afternoon with her Black Widow, armor no armor, my Shepard's arm would be tenderized roast beef unless recoil doesn't exist anymore, not to mention being hit in the back of the head/hair pulled constantly by that, a missile launcher, or something else. Won't even go into Liara being poked in the eye while going for a hug. But yanno videeoh game with aliens and giant killer space robots.
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Post by Guts on Nov 16, 2017 23:56:22 GMT
The reason I ask this is because with the guns in ME, they seem very very complex internally, having all sorts of electronics to shave off bits of a solid metal block and act like mass drivers, with other electronics to help make sure that shooting it on a sunny day isn't different from a rainy day. I like these types of firearms from an engineering standpoint, I'd want to take one apart to see how they work, but from a practical standpoint, an M4A1 or AK-12 seem much more practical, they are simple and reliable. It's kinda like how I feel about the AN-94, it's really cool how the gun achieves it's "Hyperburst" (Wherein the gun shoots two rounds at 1800 rounds per minute), but if I were to clean the gun, I would find it to be a nightmare.
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Post by RedCaesar97 on Nov 17, 2017 0:33:23 GMT
ME's firearms aren't practical at all. The whole complex mass accelerator stuff would be so complicated to maintain, I'd expect. Although they are mass produced so much that it might not be so bad. And it gets worse when the third game established that swords are more effective than bullets in the ME universe apparently, so all that technology is pointless. ... But yanno videeoh game with aliens and giant killer space robots. I feel like this sums up video games perfectly, and why we like them (and Mass Effect) so much.
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Post by RedCaesar97 on Nov 17, 2017 0:51:33 GMT
The reason I ask this is because with the guns in ME, they seem very very complex internally, having all sorts of electronics to shave off bits of a solid metal block and act like mass drivers, with other electronics to help make sure that shooting it on a sunny day isn't different from a rainy day. I like these types of firearms from an engineering standpoint, I'd want to take one apart to see how they work, but from a practical standpoint, an M4A1 or AK-12 seem much more practical, they are simple and reliable. It's kinda like how I feel about the AN-94, it's really cool how the gun achieves it's "Hyperburst" (Wherein the gun shoots two rounds at 1800 rounds per minute), but if I were to clean the gun, I would find it to be a nightmare. Yeah, trying to figure out how this would actually "work" in real-life would be interesting, but of course it relies on "mass effect", which is based on the fictional Element Zero, which forms the basis of the technology in the Mass Effect universe. But that being said, consider that history shows improvements in military technology may not be practical from a creation and maintenance standpoint, but its overall effectiveness makes it much more practical: - Bronze -- and later iron -- weaponry is harder to make and maintain than wood and stone weaponry, but it ultimately more useful and effective, therefore more practical.
- Gunpowder and early firearms (muskets, cannons) harder to make and maintain that iron weaponry, but ultimately more useful and effective, therefore practical.
- Improvements to firearms to the point of assault rifles, bazookas, tanks, battleships, fighter jets, and so on, are again harder to make and maintain than early weaponry but are more effective, therefore more practical.
In the Mass Effect universe, technology progressed to the point that 'Mass Effect weaponry' are probably harder to make and maintain than our more modern weaponry, but are ultimately considered more effective, and are therefore more practical. Or maybe I am just talking out of my ass here.
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Post by AnDromedary on Nov 17, 2017 22:01:55 GMT
I like RedCeasr's analysis. Just want to add one crucial point: In ME1 at least weapons also have the additional advantage of being super light weight (IIRC due to using super light composit materials created with the help of ME fields as well as mass lightening technology within the weapons themselves). In ME1, this meant that any soldier can carry 4 weapons simultaneously without significantly affecting their movement speed and agility. Imagine a soldier of the modern age carrying a pistol, assault rifle, shotgun and a sniper rifle everywhere. That's also why it's useful to be able to collapse these weapons, today, I guess even if we could do this, it wouldn't be that useful because carrying too many weapons is just too heavy.
The lore was of course adapted later (just like about everything in ME).
Personally, in terms of lore, I definitely liked the ME1 weapons best. Not only did they work for the intended gameplay but their codex dexcriptions really seemed like there was some sensible development of weapons tech, that fed back into the whole mass effect phaenomenon. ME2 (and thus of course ME3) with the heat sinks seemed like a step back. And don't get me started on Andromeda, where you need to spend a whole bunch of extra recourses to convert your weapon back to "obsolete vintage tech" in order to make it much more powerful and to make ammo a non-issue, which might be usefull in a scenario where you are on an expedition with basically no supply lines (like, say, going to another galaxy).
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Post by Guts on Nov 17, 2017 23:09:42 GMT
I like RedCeasr's analysis. Just want to add one crucial point: In ME1 at least weapons also have the additional advantage of being super light weight (IIRC due to using super light composit materials created with the help of ME fields as well as mass lightening technology within the weapons themselves). In ME1, this meant that any soldier can carry 4 weapons simultaneously without significantly affecting their movement speed and agility. Imagine a soldier of the modern age carrying a pistol, assault rifle, shotgun and a sniper rifle everywhere. That's also why it's useful to be able to collapse these weapons, today, I guess even if we could do this, it wouldn't be that useful because carrying too many weapons is just too heavy. The lore was of course adapted later (just like about everything in ME). Personally, in terms of lore, I definitely liked the ME1 weapons best. Not only did they work for the intended gameplay but their codex dexcriptions really seemed like there was some sensible development of weapons tech, that fed back into the whole mass effect phaenomenon. ME2 (and thus of course ME3) with the heat sinks seemed like a step back. And don't get me started on Andromeda, where you need to spend a whole bunch of extra recourses to convert your weapon back to "obsolete vintage tech" in order to make it much more powerful and to make ammo a non-issue, which might be usefull in a scenario where you are on an expedition with basically no supply lines (like, say, going to another galaxy).I actually did have a small discussion in the ME:A General discussion of BSN. About if you were able to go to another star system, FTL of course, would you go and what would you bring. For me, I'd bring something like the arctic warfare magnum due to it's high stopping power, range & accuracy (It made a former longest sniper kill in history), and it's bolt action would allow for more ammo efficiency, which is useful if you were light years away from a gun store with .338 lapua magnum ammo. Another option would be a Steyr Scout The reason behind this would be, again, bolt action=ammo efficiency, but's it's also lightweight, about 6 pounds unloaded, uses a common rifle cartridge (.308 winchester), has an integrated bipod, has an extra magazine in the stock, a low magnification eye relief scope, and is built to be an all purpose rifle.
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Post by sgtrock31 on Jan 20, 2018 13:41:59 GMT
I always got the sense that the weapons are more or less almost totally self contained. Like maybe the core of the weapon can't get dirty and is simply replaced once it needs to be. How ever things like the barrels probably do come off and can be cleaned of any outside contaminants. How ever i think the real reason they went with Mass accelerator weapons was to really emphasize how all technology is based around eezo and there for based around reaper technology. All though as far as weapon penetration and kinetic force and all those things i don't really know much about its hard to say whether they're comparable. Like is the round coming out of a m8 or m7 comparable to modern rounds like .45 or 5.56. Maybe smaller maybe bigger.
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