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Post by dragontartare on Jun 19, 2018 0:06:43 GMT
And I'm out of town. Space sent me his answers already, I just didn't get to post them yet I will within the next few hours.
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Post by dragontartare on Jun 19, 2018 1:51:15 GMT
I’ve decided to skip the narrative on the Q&A posts. With Space wanting to confuse people on purpose, I don’t want to risk accidentally making it worse.
Has your accomplice ever been open for a romantic relationship with me during our time on any version of the Normandy? I suppose that would depend on a lot of factors. Could be.
Was your accomplice never romantically interested in me during our time on any version of the Normandy? Yes, there are versions of the normandy where he was not interested in you romantically.
Is your accomplice an alien to me, in other words, not human? Do you think we'd work with a filthy alien?
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Post by pelassarias on Jun 19, 2018 3:09:38 GMT
Alright, so I think the best thing we can do with these answers is go through all the suspects to see if they fit the bill with Space's, uh, answers Wrex: Doesn't really fit with these answers. If Wrex was the suspect, that means Space lied twice with his answers. Specifically the first and last question. Wrex was pretty much never a maybe when it came for romancing Shep. Javik: Same as Wrex Legion: Same as Wrex Garrus: Fits the bill with these answers if Space lied on the last question. Kaidan: Fits the bill with these answers if Space lied on the second question. If you romance Kaidan, he's interested in Shep throughout each version of the Normandy, even though they had a rough patch during me2. So it seems that although Space's questions were a bit vague , the only roles that could apply to his answers without him lying twice is our male love interests, Garrus and Kaidan. I'm personally leaning towards Garrus for our suspect based on the second question, but it's possible that Kaidan could still be the spy at the moment.
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Post by Catilina on Jun 19, 2018 7:39:32 GMT
Kaidan or Garrus.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 19, 2018 8:35:01 GMT
A very good summary Pela, except I'm not sure about the conclusion you make concerning Garrus and Kaidan because they are the only candidates if Space did not lie twice. Unlike the last round I don't think that the answers definitely lead to that conclusion. To be honest I can see Dragon's dilemma in trying to write and narrative because each of those answers is vague or evasive enough to not qualify as an outright lie. Technically each of the answer could be true since the answer comes with a qualifier that to some extent negates the original question, in other words the gentle art of equivocation (something every good spy should be accomplished in):
Answer to question One: "I suppose that would depend on a lot of factors. Could be."
On the face of it, if this answer is true then it does rule out everyone but Kaidan and Garrus as the other male party members were not romantically interested. However, does sex count as romance? In the Citadel DLC, if a female Shepard has no romantic entanglements, she and Javik may wake up in the same bed the morning after the party, apparently having slept together. As Javik awakens, he declares that there is at least one thing primitives are good at, to which Shepard tells him not to say a word. (Hasn't happened to me personally but I saw it on the Wiki). So does that put him back into the picture?
Answer to question Two: "Yes there are versions of the Normandy where he was not interested in you romantically."
Are we meant to assume that since the Shepard questioning him is female, then scenarios involving a male Shepard do not apply? In which case, Garrus was not interested in Shepard romantically on Normandy One and you could argue that Kaidan was not interested romantically on Normandy Two since he was not part of the crew and technically the romance ended on his side when you died (bit of a grey area there). So I think I'm right in saying that even if the spy is Garrus or Kaidan, this answer is not definitely a lie.
Answer to question Three "Do you think we would work with a filthy alien?"
This is an implied rhetorical question and so it is left for us to provide the answer. Thus it is technically neither truth nor lie but could definitely qualify being an evasive answer that does not break the rule about only one lie per round.
So on the balance of the evidence, I think you are right that the most likely candidates are either Garrus or Kaidan, but I wouldn't rule out Javik entirely.
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Post by sgtreed24 on Jun 19, 2018 12:25:59 GMT
1. Who approved these questions? 2. I thought the answers were supposed to just be yes or no? lol He can only outright lie about one of them right? The others have to, technically, be true, correct? So, Love interests: Garrus, Kaidan Non LIs: Wrex, Javik, Legion If 1 is technically true and 3 is a lie, then 2 is true. Meaning that fits Garrus. If 1 is technically true and 2 is a lie, then 3 is true. Meaning it's Kaidan. There's other variations as well, but it's making my brain hurt so I give up lol. Anyway, I still think it's Garrus. Not that that's too big of a help since we don't know who Garrus is.
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Post by Catilina on Jun 19, 2018 13:56:32 GMT
1. Who approved these questions? 2. I thought the answers were supposed to just be yes or no? lol He can only outright lie about one of them right? The others have to, technically, be true, correct? So, Love interests: Garrus, Kaidan Non LIs: Wrex, Javik, Legion If 1 is technically true and 3 is a lie, then 2 is true. Meaning that fits Garrus. If 1 is technically true and 2 is a lie, then 3 is true. Meaning it's Kaidan There's other variations as well, but it's making my brain hurt so I give up lol. Anyway, I still think it's Garrus. Not that that's too big of a help since we don't know who Garrus is. This is the point. (I'm neither Garrus, nor Kaidan.)
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Post by romice on Jun 19, 2018 15:01:58 GMT
As gerva said, Javik can technically count as a love interest. I wouldn't put it past Space to count him in
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Post by pelassarias on Jun 19, 2018 16:12:36 GMT
However, does sex count as romance? In the Citadel DLC, if a female Shepard has no romantic entanglements, she and Javik may wake up in the same bed the morning after the party, apparently having slept together. As Javik awakens, he declares that there is at least one thing primitives are good at, to which Shepard tells him not to say a word. (Hasn't happened to me personally but I saw it on the Wiki). So does that put him back into the picture? I personally don't think the one night stand with Javik counts as him being romantically interested in Shepard. Sexually interested, sure, but not romantically. I also don't think he technically counts as a love interest. So I'm still heavily leaning towards Garrus or Kaidan as our suspects. But since there is a little grey area with Javik, I will definitely keep this in mind with the next three questions I'll provide during the next round.
ETA: Are we meant to assume that since the Shepard questioning him is female, then scenarios involving a male Shepard do not apply? In which case, Garrus was not interested in Shepard romantically on Normandy One and you could argue that Kaidan was not interested romantically on Normandy Two since he was not part of the crew and technically the romance ended on his side when you died (bit of a grey area there). So I think I'm right in saying that even if the spy is Garrus or Kaidan, this answer is not definitely a lie.
Yeah, since the Shepard I'm playing is female, then the love interests/scenarios exclusively involving Male Shep does and should not apply. Also, part of my question involved whether or not the spy was romantically interested on any version of the Normandy. So even though Shepard died, Kaidan was still romantically interested in Shepard beforehand on the first version of the Normandy. And I don't think Kaidan was not romantically interested in Shepard during me2 even if he wasn't apart of the crew and they were having a rough patch, especially when you consider that he counts Shepard being involved with anyone else during me2 as cheating if you romanced him in the first game. It just seems to me he was still emotionally and romantically attached to Shepard during the those events. So I still believe if Kaidan is the spy, that Space is more than likely lying on the second question.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Jun 19, 2018 16:17:25 GMT
As gerva said, Javik can technically count as a love interest. I wouldn't put it past Space to count him in Who wouldn't want a 50000 year old prothean?
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Post by Catilina on Jun 19, 2018 17:45:32 GMT
As gerva said, Javik can technically count as a love interest. I wouldn't put it past Space to count him in Who wouldn't want a 50000 year old prothean? Many people love the 1000 years old elven demigod... The ancient things are valuable.
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Post by fylimar on Jun 20, 2018 4:55:19 GMT
Let me get this straight? You can have a one night stand with the guy, that bores you into drinking?:/
And sorry for being so absent, but I have catched a cold and am not very energetic at the moment.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 20, 2018 7:27:54 GMT
Let me get this straight? You can have a one night stand with the guy, that bores you into drinking?:/ Not exactly, he bores people when he is talking. I assume there wasn't too much of that involved overnight. However, the reason the rest of the crew took to drink is that they could still hear............
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Post by fylimar on Jun 21, 2018 11:13:37 GMT
Ok... I think, I'll Stick with Garrus . Is voting time? And is the voting in private again? I have trouble with the internet and can't be online much. Wish me luck that it get fixed soon
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Post by Space Cowboy on Jun 21, 2018 12:17:11 GMT
Ok... I think, I'll Stick with Garrus . Is voting time? And is the voting in private again? I have trouble with the internet and can't be online much. Wish me luck that it get fixed soon Good luck with your Internet!
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Post by dragontartare on Jun 21, 2018 14:48:43 GMT
Ok... I think, I'll Stick with Garrus . Is voting time? And is the voting in private again? I have trouble with the internet and can't be online much. Wish me luck that it get fixed soon You can send me your vote whenever you're ready.
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Post by fylimar on Jun 22, 2018 4:41:04 GMT
My Internet connection is fixed , I'm back in the 21st century
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Post by pelassarias on Jun 23, 2018 19:01:18 GMT
Okay so while other players try to figure out who to vote for, I want to actually share my thoughts about this game so far: I'm not sure if I'm in the minority when it comes to this how I feel about this type of Day/Night game, but I actually really enjoy this so far. I just really like interrogating and figuring out Space's possible accomplice with his very vague answers. It's actually pretty challenging and a bit satisfying trying to narrow down the suspects (If I'm actually right). Also it is a nice change of pace. I think the main kink in this game however, is that most of the Heroes do not feel safe in coming out and hinting who they are after being exonerated. This is a pretty big disadvantage for the Heroes since figuring out who is who is the main way for us to catch the spy in this game. So I've been trying to figure out how to solve this and I've come up with two possible suggestions if we play this again in the future: 1) I think what this type of game really needs for the Heroes is a protective role that can protect one Hero each night. So basically a healer/bodyguard/trapper type of role. By having this type of role for this game, roles like Liara or Garrus will feel more safe coming out and hinting if they were to be exonerated. Jack can possibly come out as well. We could have Mordin or Dr. Michel as a healer, or either Zaeed or Grunt as a bodyguard. 2) We can also possibly tweak Jack a little bit for this game. We can have her jail players each night, and she can demand ask for their roles. The players will of course have the option on whether or not they will be truthful or even give her an answer at all. She will still only be able to execute one person for each game, and will die if she executes a Hero. By tweaking her like this, the Heroes will be able to safely hint to Jack if they were exonerated without worrying about the spies. We will also have a Hero who won't be so in the dark. If we are going to implement this however, we definitely need to provide the spy a cover role if we haven't already. These are the two I've come up with so far, since this game is heavily based on hints, I think these two possible suggestions could help out for a possible next game in the future. But having them together in one game could be a little OP for the Heroes, so there's another thing to consider.
ETA: Another possible suggestion is also adding roles that aren't that much at risk of either getting killed by the spies, or being unable to activate their powerful ability after being found out by the spies. Roles like the veteran, who can go on alert to fend off spies or Garrus at night, will feel more safer coming out during the day if exonerated.
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Post by dragontartare on Jun 23, 2018 19:16:15 GMT
I like your suggestions I think you may be the only player who likes this version of the game, though, if level of participation is any indication. I'll post a voting update when I can. I'm sitting at an airport right now. Cati is in the lead, though.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Jun 23, 2018 20:13:41 GMT
I like your suggestions I think you may be the only player who likes this version of the game, though, if level of participation is any indication. I'll post a voting update when I can. I'm sitting at an airport right now. Cati is in the lead, though. I wouldn't assume that. Lots of people are just busy. I like it as well.
I'll add to Pela's comment. I like my role when I get to do something, but others may feel it boring. I don't mind boring, but right now, I can't participate in the voting, I can't read what others thing of the voting since its secret..
Coming up with dodgy answers is pretty fun though
Have a good flight!
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Post by Catilina on Jun 23, 2018 21:30:21 GMT
I like your suggestions I think you may be the only player who likes this version of the game, though, if level of participation is any indication. I'll post a voting update when I can. I'm sitting at an airport right now. Cati is in the lead, though. Flight well! pelassarias I like your ideas, sounds fun. So? Let's try it?
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 24, 2018 7:46:28 GMT
I like the new version of the game and was disappointed when you said this one run might be our only one. I like the challenge of thinking up questions and then making sense of the evasive answers. It means there are positive things you can do during the voting round other than just casting suspicion at individual players and seeing how they respond.
First run through there were always going to be elements that needed tweeking and people are going to be a bit wary. I like Pela's ideas although I think we would have to be careful not to overpower the heroes. May be it could be a case of substitute roles for this scenario, so if one is in play, another isn't just to keep the balance right, but it is definitely something worth exploring.
I think we may need to do something different with the voting though. I think that is the part that is most confusing players. May be keep it entirely secret, so it is not possible to change after seeing the initial outcome. Also that way only the spy would know exactly how many people voted for a particular person. Perhaps that is something we could discuss more once this game is over.
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Post by fylimar on Jun 24, 2018 7:56:17 GMT
I like your suggestions I think you may be the only player who likes this version of the game, though, if level of participation is any indication. I'll post a voting update when I can. I'm sitting at an airport right now. Cati is in the lead, though. I like it too, I'm just a bit less active because of my cold, which is still there. I'm not as active as normal over at Skyhold and in some other threads I normally participate either. I agree with pela about some more protective roles though, as I said a few pages before.And I like pelas Jack tweak, could be fun
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Post by fylimar on Jun 24, 2018 7:58:10 GMT
Good flight, dragon
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Post by dragontartare on Jun 24, 2018 20:53:22 GMT
I like the new version of the game and was disappointed when you said this one run might be our only one. I don't object to doing this version again with tweaks as needed. I just didn't think people were having any fun. Another change that might be needed is to let people go ahead and talk about their votes, with the understanding that people might be lying. It would give something else to ask the captured spy about. Voting update: catilina: 2 romice: 1 reed: 1Waiting on two more votes.
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