[Day/Night Game] Trouble on the Citadel - round "LE Part 2: Why Cerberus Is Right For You"

Well I was going to post a picture of Burns from Simpsons saying "Exellent" but apparently I'm unable to

If gervaise would have turned wouldn't have there been a hint thrown at us by dragontartare? Dragontarttare said that whenever the EC successfully has their target voted off, the narrative would basically provide a hint for the rest of the players. I haven't seen such a hint during the past rounds, so if gervaise is the EC (which everything points to them being the EC), I don't believed they have turned.

Correct, there would have been a hint.

Votes so far:
dadithinkimgay: 3

Still to vote:
dadithinkimgay


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First, does anyone else want to run the next game?

I also had an idea for how to tweak things for the next game, if people still want to play. Everyone gets a role, including the spies. The spies are actual characters who were "indoctrinated" before the start of the game, and are now working for TIM.

For example, let's say the RNG assigns the role of Garrus to Space, and the role of Javik to Tittus. Then, the RNG assigns Tittus as one of the spies. Tittus would actually be Javik and have Javik's ability, but would also get to eliminate another player every night, just as the spies always have.

The spies can use their character's ability to help the heroes as a sort of cover, or they can use their character's ability to help the spies. The only character that I think couldn't work for the spies would be Liara, since all she learns is spy/not spy.

What do you think?

I wanted more renegade points because right now I'm missing two squares from the Intimidation option. I don't mean they're greyed out, they cannot be chosen as the bar doesn't reach all the way to the end. I'm guessing they'll appear with more renegade points.

I think they appear as you level up?

Sounds interesting. Give it a shot. 

I really like the idea of spies having additional roles. A spy-Liara would be very effective

First of all, I’d like to sign up for the next game. 😊





Decided to try my hand at figuring out how this would work.



NOTE: I have not given too much thought to whether this would make some roles OP or not, that’s a different discussion, I have simply looked at how the roles could work when turned evil.



Javik, Diana, Tali and Legion would probably work exactly the same.



Wrex

I was gonna say Wrex would work the same as well until I realized that a spy Wrex’s only way of dying at night would be if Garrus shoots him, which means Wrex is almost guaranteed to always take a hero with them. I know I said I wouldn’t worry about OP, but this one’s a bit extreme. Maybe his ability only activates if he has a certain percentage of the votes or something? Or he has to take the person with the second most votes, even if that is also a spy?



Garrus

Would probably work the same. Which means the spies can take out two people in one night, once a game. I would suggest that they can still shoot another spy, with their permission (or not ), to throw suspicion off themselves.



Evil Clone

Since a clone that has successfully impersonated someone gets to choose which side they want to be on, maybe a spy clone could actually choose to be good? Without telling the other spies, of course. I’m not sure how this would realistically work, since it’d be pretty obvious to the other spies if their partner suddenly started voting against them. Maybe the spies would not be able to take out the clone during the night, but have to convince the others to vote them off. Clone would still know who the spies are and all of their strategies, which is kinda OP. I think I just talked myself out of this idea. Maybe they’ll just do the impersonate others/steal their ability thing alone and not the switching sides bit.



Liara

She can still be used to identify specific roles that are dangerous to the spies. Could definitely be considered OP.



Miranda

…Can save herself from Garrus if she’s super lucky and they pick the same night??



EDI

EDI doesn’t really have an ability other than “can turn evil”. If she’s already evil, she just doesn’t have an ability?



Ashley/Kaidan

Uh, the others are so inspired by their bravery that they listen to their vote even if they’re evil? Similarly to Garrus, could actually vote for another spy.



Kasumi

Yeah, I got nothing…





I guess all the roles who are not able to activate their ability on their own (Wrex, EDI, VirmireS) could get the roles but not the powers. Since part of the reason for giving the spies roles is to make the argument “use your power so we know you’re real” not work anymore. Wrex and EDI can’t “prove” their identity anyway, so maybe they just won’t get anything special after all.



This could include Liara and Kasumi as well. And of course extend to a Truly Evil Clone who impersonates one of these roles.



Also, I just realized I’ve used “spy” instead of “agent” in this whole post, but I’m to lazy to change it now.

I mean that if Wrex is one of the spies they can't target him at night. So unless Garrus shoots him (and Garrus only has one shoot and several potential targets, so the odds are low), the only way he can go out of the game is if he's voted off. And if he's voted off he can take someone with him. This means that an evil Wrex is practically a guaranteed extra kill for the spies. Then again, so is Garrus, I suppose... 

At the same time, if Wrex is exposed as a spy, for instance by Liara, and Garrus has already used his shot/been eliminated, then he's practically invincible, since the good guys won't want to vote him off unless he's the last spy.

So I suggested an evil Wrex wouldn't have controll over who goes with him. (Normal Wrex still would, of course.)

No, there's actually a problem with Tali that I've been thinking about since last night. Since Tali can't vote with Legion for two rounds, that would require telling spy-Tali which player is Legion, and I'm not sure that's fair. I've been trying to figure out how to solve that, other than saying Tali can't be with Cerberus.

I don't think it's OP, really. In every round of both games so far, the spies have never won, even when adonniel made her game harder by eliminating role hints. However, if everyone likes the idea of spy-Wrex's target being randomly generated when he gets voted off, then that could be done.

Indeed. This is a counterpoint to how heros get so many chances to cancel out the spies' nightly eliminations. 

A spy-Evil Clone who successfully gets the real character eliminated could choose to either stay a spy, or become good. An EC who becomes good would be removed from the spy PM thread. They would become an almost instant target for the spies though, I think.

On the contrary, spy-Liara is almost useless to the spies. Check the description again. All Liara can find out is whether someone is a spy or not. The spies already know each other, so Liara's ability won't tell them anything they don't already know. The most she could do is pretend to have special information to try to lead the heros astray, but I don't think that would last very long. 

I was actually thinking that Liara is one role (or two, along with Tali) that cannot be a spy.

She could save herself from Garrus, or she could save a hero to throw suspicion off herself. I guess in theory, the spies could decide to take out one of their own, and have spy-Miranda save them as an elaborate cover-up.

Yeah, spy-EDI is kinda boring, but it doesn't hurt the game.

It's only one extra vote, not swaying everyone's votes. And yes, they could vote for a spy in order to throw suspicion off that spy.

Kasumi may need to be another role that can't be a spy. Or, it could be a role that the spy could only use to throw off suspicion. Either the spies target a hero and spy-Kasumi "saves" them, or the spies target another spy and spy-Kasumi "saves" them, thereby throwing suspicion off both spies.

I say let Evil Wrex choose their victim. I personally don't find it OP since Wrex also gets eliminated during the process of taking one of their victims down. Even if Garrus has already used their ability, that's just what Garrus has to consider before shooting anyone.

Also like dragontartare said, the spies haven't won a round in both games, so if they need an extra boost such as Evil Wrex, let them have it!

And when you think about it, Wrex can be pretty invincible as a seasoned krogan, so this role does fit the character

Regarding Evil Liara or Tali maybe they could have a different ability? Although this could get a little complicated, here are some possible suggestions I'll bounce off here:

1.)Possibly traitor (shows up innocent on Liara's report).

2.)Can prevent one player from voting in one round.

3.)Can possibly rig Garrus's gun, but only if they can successfully figure out who Garrus is.

4.)Can prevent the Heroes from vote switching in one round.

5.) Evil Liara can possibly be like Cassandra in the Skyhold game.

6.) Can clear any sort of roleblocking so that indoctrination can be successful

7.) Evil Tali can possibly rig the voting system so that her vote can count twice. This can work if she is one of the last remaining agents and it's down to the wire.

8.) During the night, Evil Liara can use her ability towards the agents' current victim and prevent the player's role from being revealed