Should Bioware Invent a new Dialogue System?

You could type things? In which game? I've only played NWN and all of the Dragon Age games. NWN had a chat interface, but that was for MP/co-op. I sometimes used it for RP purposes, but there was no reactivity from the world that I was typing.

At any rate, this doesn't seem doable with a voiced protagonist and also for console players who aren't going to be using keyboards. Or, well, they can use them, but don't expect to.


I don't like this, either, but I will say that it gives clear intent for the player, whereas that might be more difficult to discern with a paraphrase response.

In DA2 I hated both the paraphrases which I frequently misunderstood and the personality system within their dialogue wheel. At no point should the game be choosing my characters tone for me. I'll select an aggressive or sarcastic tone when I want my character to display one. That system didn't even make sense, people react differently to different people/events/stimuli: Not this 'your mostly aggressive to/about acquaintances/strangers so we'll automate aggression into you choice dialogues with loved ones' malarkey.

Leave my misanthrope who only likes Isabela and Bethany alone damn you.

DAI was an improvement. Better quality parphrases; the removal of automated personality choices; and the inclusion of tone icons. Big fan of the tone icons, even DAO could have benefitted from them as the full line was mostly good enough but on rare occasion you could misjudge the intended tone.

I'd still prefer full line choices, for role playing I want to be able to see my options and choose the one that best suits the way my character feels/would say - I cannot fully do that when I'm only surmising what the options are, particularily bad with the choice decisions which didn't have tone icons. You wouldn't necesarily need the full line for all options - most investigates would probably do just fine with a paraphrase. But big decisions, statements of opinions/feelings should have full lines.

I know they say that it's less fun/boring to listen to the line again after reading it - but oh honey, my lads: with particurly delicate/uncertain decisions I would pick, reload, pick, reload, pick, reload - just so I could know what the options are and choose the correct one for my character. You can't convince me that just showing me the full line would be more tiresome than doing that - it would certainly be less time consuming. I want to roleplay, not just watch.


But I don't expect them to back down on paraphrases - so on to an improvement that they might actually go with:

A defect in the DAI dialogue system is that because the Choice options (as opppsed to the Investigate and Emotion options) only come in one version/tone - that tone must inevitably be stoic/neutral. This resulted in many people finding the inquisitor too bland/not emotional or distinct enough. So having multiple tone versions of a line like da2 would be good, but sans da2's automated behind the scene system.

So I would suggest having multiple readings of the same line in different tones, or different versions of the line with the same basic meaning/result, for each Choice option (which: on a case by case basis). Similar too how you had multiple tone versions for the disband/reform choice at the end of trespasser but instead of filling up the circle you select the choice and then get taken to a sub menu for tone choice (much as how you select investigate and then get taken to an investigate submenu).

Stoic/neutral would be the default option that's always there because it allows people to project whatever emotion they want onto the PC's state of mind and the game can't have every possiblilty. Then you would have other Tone Icons there aswell, which ones depending on the situation. Typically there would be 2 more (for a total of three) but there may be as many as 3 more or only one depending. Some situations might just have the stoic option if the line is to short/simple to have different versions. 

Example:

Instead of just having 'Accept Quest' and 'Decline Quest' you'd have..
Quest: Save my chickens!!

• Accept Quest
  • Stoically accept        
  • Humourasly accept  
  • Confusedly accept   
  
  
• Decline Quest
  • Stoically refuse          
  • Regretfully Refuse       
  • Refuse like a dickbag   
  
  

Silly example but the point is that aside from just accepting or declining you also get to display your character's personality. Even DAO often had multiple ways of accepting/declining/reacting to a quest. If applied to all choice options it could be greatly beneficial - and we know their willing to write multiple tone versions of choice lines because they did so in da2.

I think that the DAI dialogue wheel was the best it's been in any BioWare game I've played (haven't played MEA yet, so I don't have an opinion on that) and that they should focus on refining and improving it further in DA4 rather than - if you'll pardon the expression - re-inventing the wheel.

I mean, I'd love a toggle that let you see the full line, but as Nightscrawl noted they tried that in DA2 playtesting and people hated it.

It's my favorite of all three systems.

Then again, I also like my Inquisitor's VA (Brit male) and don't think he was boring in the least, while I do think that the DA2 options were often various flavors of extreme. So, if they did dialogue the exact same way as DAI, I'd be pretty pleased. I'd prefer seeing a full line, but I know that won't happen. Paraphrases aren't perfect, but they did try to improve things from DA2.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. DAI dialogue system was good.

Oh, they did? I didn't know about that. It sucks when their reasoning is basically "we don't want to give you this" instead of "we'll give you the choice to do this if you want". I hate it when video games do that, it limits the players to play how they want. I think there is a mod for Fallout 4 that actually replaces the dialogue choices with the full lines. I remember having it and it was incredibly useful so I don't see why Bioware thought "it didn't work" for DA2. If people think it ruins their experience then just turn it off, it's not that hard honestly. :\ But oh well...

Only problems i've had with the dialogue wheel were the removal of neutral choices in ME3 & the feeling in DAI of a lack of proper range to characterisation. I liked that in DA2 you could be clearly funny or aggressive or diplomatic in your choices, whereas the Inquisition options sort of lacked that clarity.

Needs an 'Accept Like a Dickbag' too; "WHAT? UGH, I *guess*, since it's ON THE WAY." "What's the matter, are your legs broken? *Fine*" Etc. I'd be all over sulky teenage stompy responses. XD

Well, if it actually were RP, I'd agree with you. But since Bioware RPGs are closer to modestly interactive experiences (a "main" story, with a few player-selected variations in the plot), policing dialogue choices makes for more consistent PC character development, from the writer's point of view.

In other words, Bioware's dialogue system has never been about player agency. It's about telling the best possible interactive story.

True RP would require PC improv. No video game that I know of has come close to that. Well, I suppose the Vent channel of an FPS or MMO comes close.

Why is the writer's POV of interest to me?

Put another way, there are two possible situations when possibly-restricted lines come up. Either the intended character development has worked, and I\'m going to pick from the lines I would have been permitted anyway. Or the character development has failed -- I'm not seeing the character the way the writer intended me to -- and I don't want to use the approved lines. The restriction doesn't do anything useful; it's either superfluous or harmful.

I wasn't referring to autodialogue though that annoys me too. I tried finding a source from the time that might better explain what I meant, but my googling skills failed me and instead of an official source there's mostly reviews that don't fully explain it and forum posts - even the DAwiki lacks sources for its info on the da2 dialogue wheel. But if the wikis info is complete then it looks like I may have misunderstood how part of the personality system works.

The way I thought it worked was that in addidtion to affecting autodialague like combat shouts, exploration comment and greetings, your dominent tone also affected how your character said Choice dialogue options (options represented by 3-arrows not by the tone indicators). The biggest reason for me thinking that being that when playing my Hawke who chooses mostly aggressive Tone options, she spoke some Choice options in an aggressive fashion.

So either 

1. I'm right about the set personality affecting Choice options but my googlefoo has failed me
2. Those particular Choice options were written/performed only as aggressive and various Choice options in the game were written in tones irrespective of the set personality.