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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 22, 2017 20:37:58 GMT
Yes, Tom Taylorson is the voice of Scott Ryder.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Dec 22, 2017 23:48:43 GMT
He should be voicing new content for the game, great fuckin' job, BioWare.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
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To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Dec 24, 2017 3:28:47 GMT
He should be voicing new content for the game, great fuckin' job, BioWare.EA.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Dec 24, 2017 4:36:47 GMT
and developed by BioWare, for five years.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
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To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Dec 24, 2017 9:18:49 GMT
and developed by BioWare, for five years. 2 1/2 years. Bioware developed plan for MEA. EA Scratched it. Bioware developed new plan 3 years in. EA let them go with it. EA the money grubbing business has-been elitists who know nothing about how to make great RPG's. Bioware is the only EA studio that makes RPG's as far as I know that is still open.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Dec 24, 2017 15:50:47 GMT
The fuck are you on about? It's been said in the leaks that they wasted a fuckton of time with that procedural initiative so that they could have thousands of planets, but it didn't work out because Montreal has zero experience developing games and so they started again due to the incompetence and everything from that point was a mess with Mac Walters having to step in and fix what he could before release. Montreal had the budget, the time, and delays to come up with a good game, but instead they got the series canned and a whole legacy of laughable memes out of their game. EA wanted the lootboxes for the MP, they still could have done an excellent game like they did with ME3, a game that ran for GOTY, sold very well, and also had them. Montreal killed the series, along with the ridiculous management there.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
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To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Dec 25, 2017 3:37:38 GMT
The fuck are you on about? It's been said in the leaks that they wasted a fuckton of time with that procedural initiative so that they could have thousands of planets, but it didn't work out because Montreal has zero experience developing games and so they started again due to the incompetence and everything from that point was a mess with Mac Walters having to step in and fix what he could before release. Montreal had the budget, the time, and delays to come up with a good game, but instead they got the series canned and a whole legacy of laughable memes out of their game. EA wanted the lootboxes for the MP, they still could have done an excellent game like they did with ME3, a game that ran for GOTY, sold very well, and also had them. Montreal killed the series, along with the ridiculous management there. Thank you for confirming my whole point. It is not about their experience with making RPG games -though it is in the right vein. It is about their experience making a game that was to be built in a procedural universe. Something the other EA game No Man's Sky had tried. I think No Man's Sky was the first time a procedural universe was tried on such a scale -if at all. EA had seen the success of No Man's Sky and wanted MEA to follow it. EA then saw the player base of No Man's Sky begin to shrink and EA recoiled. MEA was thus redesigned from using the No Man's Sky procedural universe idea to what we got. If EA wanted it to work that way then they should have disbanded the No Man's Sky team and reassigned them to Bioware MEA division. And again it is the decisions of EA not Bioware that really gave us what we got anyway.
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Post by river82 on Dec 25, 2017 3:57:28 GMT
Thank you for confirming my whole point. It is not about their experience with making RPG games -though it is in the right vein. It is about their experience making a game that was to be built in a procedural universe. Something the other EA game No Man's Sky had tried. I think No Man's Sky was the first time a procedural universe was tried on such a scale -if at all. EA had seen the success of No Man's Sky and wanted MEA to follow it. EA then saw the player base of No Man's Sky begin to shrink and EA recoiled. MEA was thus redesigned from using the No Man's Sky procedural universe idea to what we got. If EA wanted it to work that way then they should have disbanded the No Man's Sky team and reassigned them to Bioware MEA division. And again it is the decisions of EA not Bioware that really gave us what we got anyway. EA wasn't the one who wanted to try procedural planets, that was Bioware. Bioware's known for chasing trends. No Man's Sky wasn't released until last year, so EA couldn't have seen the "success of No Man's Sky", and even if they had they would have witnessed the strong backlash NMS received when first released. EA, the profit hungry corporate machine, would never have tried something as risky as an NMS clone (no established audience or call), much easier and safer to make a FPS MMO. It wasn't EA that scrapped it, Bioware did after they couldn't get the idea working. Your arguments are based in fantasy land. Bioware Montreal is responsible for the failings of Andromeda.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
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At sunrise there is the sunset.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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November 2016
thelastvanguardian
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
No.
No
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Dec 25, 2017 14:25:24 GMT
Thank you for confirming my whole point. It is not about their experience with making RPG games -though it is in the right vein. It is about their experience making a game that was to be built in a procedural universe. Something the other EA game No Man's Sky had tried. I think No Man's Sky was the first time a procedural universe was tried on such a scale -if at all. EA had seen the success of No Man's Sky and wanted MEA to follow it. EA then saw the player base of No Man's Sky begin to shrink and EA recoiled. MEA was thus redesigned from using the No Man's Sky procedural universe idea to what we got. If EA wanted it to work that way then they should have disbanded the No Man's Sky team and reassigned them to Bioware MEA division. And again it is the decisions of EA not Bioware that really gave us what we got anyway. EA wasn't the one who wanted to try procedural planets, that was Bioware. Bioware's known for chasing trends. No Man's Sky wasn't released until last year, so EA couldn't have seen the "success of No Man's Sky", and even if they had they would have witnessed the strong backlash NMS received when first released. EA, the profit hungry corporate machine, would never have tried something as risky as an NMS clone (no established audience or call), much easier and safer to make a FPS MMO. It wasn't EA that scrapped it, Bioware did after they couldn't get the idea working. Your arguments are based in fantasy land. Bioware Montreal is responsible for the failings of Andromeda. Granted. Also not fantasy land just more of a stickler for responsible leadership than what we ended up with. Still the insiders would have known about NMS being in development at EA before its announcement. Knowledge Bioware would have access to being a part of EA and a possible theory that they could use in their RPG way. So technically they developed it in their own way but still influence of NMS is there. kotaku.com/the-story-behind-mass-effect-andromedas-troubled-five-1795886428EA is more responsible for MEA's failings more than Bioware Montreal ever would be as far as I am concerned. EA is at fault for allowing these things to happen in the first place. Shifting of employees between studios, changing building of game so late in, changing directors and vastly underwhelming resources needed. THESE things should never been allowed to occur. Sure Bioware is at fault for these but EA holds the total responsibility for even allowing these things to occur in the first place. This is one case where the EA totalitarian system would have worked better to get the game better received. Bioware has been set back to the days of Icewind Dale with using the Frostbyte Engine -still an ambitious engine to be using for RPG's. Maybe in 10 years they will finally have it mastered and be back to where they were in 2007... Nevertheless I will say that MEA is KOTOR2 level in completion... at least Bioware completed it instead of passing it to another studio.
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Post by The Twilight God on Dec 25, 2017 18:41:22 GMT
and developed by BioWare, for five years. 2 1/2 years. Bioware developed plan for MEA. EA Scratched it. Bioware developed new plan 3 years in. EA let them go with it. EA the money grubbing business has-been elitists who know nothing about how to make great RPG's. Bioware is the only EA studio that makes RPG's as far as I know that is still open. It wasn't working out. Bioware wasted years of development time and had to start over. It wasn't EA's fault they tried to reinvent the wheel and failed.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Dec 26, 2017 0:17:54 GMT
Oh, yes, the classic the publisher fucked up everything despite their efforts to make this game successful to everyone after Montreal's piece of shit handling of the IP. You proved absolutely nothing, but only that you know nothing aside from your BioWare wet dreams. Montreal killed the franchise, they wasted years of development because they didn't know better, and focused in the sex scenes than the story and characters, you know, what makes BioWare, BioWare. In the end, the reception was shit, the support was shit and the sales were shittier hence the hiatus. But congrats for thinking it's okay, great message to the developers, to hide behind EA's curtains whenever they fuck up again for a mediocre product.
Also, Merry Christmas.
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Post by smilesja on Dec 26, 2017 1:10:39 GMT
MEA was pretty good despite the troubled development.
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mannyray
N3
Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Drycake3000
Posts: 635 Likes: 722
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Post by mannyray on Dec 26, 2017 2:17:53 GMT
Oh, yes, the classic the publisher fucked up everything despite their efforts to make this game successful to everyone after Montreal's piece of shit handling of the IP. You proved absolutely nothing, but only that you know nothing aside from your BioWare wet dreams. Montreal killed the franchise, they wasted years of development because they didn't know better, and focused in the sex scenes than the story and characters, you know, what makes BioWare, BioWare. In the end, the reception was shit, the support was shit and the sales were shittier hence the hiatus. But congrats for thinking it's okay, great message to the developers, to hide behind EA's curtains whenever they fuck up again for a mediocre product. Also, Merry Christmas. One thing I always respected about you whether we agree or disagree is that you give no quarter to those you feel screwed up. Yeah, Bioware's leadership at the developer level for this game was obviously screwed up, but in the end the buck did stop with EA. EA could have pulled the plug on the procedural crap within a year but chose not to, or just didn't care. Come on, don't act like your husband is on the EA board of directors all of a sudden...
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Dec 26, 2017 2:28:43 GMT
Oh, yes, the classic the publisher fucked up everything despite their efforts to make this game successful to everyone after Montreal's piece of shit handling of the IP. You proved absolutely nothing, but only that you know nothing aside from your BioWare wet dreams. Montreal killed the franchise, they wasted years of development because they didn't know better, and focused in the sex scenes than the story and characters, you know, what makes BioWare, BioWare. In the end, the reception was shit, the support was shit and the sales were shittier hence the hiatus. But congrats for thinking it's okay, great message to the developers, to hide behind EA's curtains whenever they fuck up again for a mediocre product. Also, Merry Christmas. One thing I always respected about you whether we agree or disagree is that you give no quarter to those you feel screwed up. Yeah, Bioware's leadership at the developer level for this game was obviously screwed up, but in the end the buck did stop with EA. EA could have pulled the plug on the procedural crap within a year but chose not to, or just didn't care. Come on, don't act like your husband is on the EA board of directors all of a sudden... But then people would complain EA fucked up their initial vision again, and the cycle continues. Honestly, I hate to say this, but I must give EA kudos for letting Montreal do their shit in the demand of a semi-open world Mass Effect game akin to ME1 in some ways, it's not easy but not impossible with enough talent, which is what they didn't have for the procedural crap. They could have made 30 planets with that and then tweak and fill them with interesting lore, landscapes and characters, instead we had a broken project for two years, and then the rushed development that led into the mess that was this game, departures, delays, marketing and the justified meme fest. I wanted to love this shit to death, I like some parts, but it's so MEDIOCRE and canned the series. I can't forgive them for that. You can do blame EA for those fucking lootboxes, though, Andrew Wilson being the logic asshole that he is. Fuck, I defended this game to oblivion before release, I had a open and excited mind from the get-go, search my posts, but I can't defend BioWare's crap, not in 2017. My brain hurts like a bitch when I consider a Mass Effect game so whatever.
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mannyray
N3
Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Drycake3000
Posts: 635 Likes: 722
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Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
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Post by mannyray on Dec 26, 2017 2:32:55 GMT
One thing I always respected about you whether we agree or disagree is that you give no quarter to those you feel screwed up. Yeah, Bioware's leadership at the developer level for this game was obviously screwed up, but in the end the buck did stop with EA. EA could have pulled the plug on the procedural crap within a year but chose not to, or just didn't care. Come on, don't act like your husband is on the EA board of directors all of a sudden... But then people would complain EA fucked up their initial vision again, and the cycle continues. Honestly, I hate to say this, but I must give EA kudos for letting Montreal do their shit in the demand of a semi-open world Mass Effect game akin to ME1 in some ways, it's not easy but not impossible with enough talent, which is what they didn't have for the procedural crap. They could have made 30 planets with that and then tweak and fill them with interesting lore, landscapes and characters, instead we had a broken project for two years, and then the rushed development that led into the mess that was this game, departures, delays, marketing and the justified meme fest. I wanted to love this shit to death, I like some parts, but it's so MEDIOCRE and canned the series. I can't forgive them for that. You can do blame EA for those fucking lootboxes, though, Andrew Wilson being the logic asshole that he is. Fuck, I defended this game to oblivion before release, I had a open and excited mind from the get-go, search my posts, but I can't defend BioWare's crap, not in 2017. My brain hurts like a bitch when I consider a Mass Effect game so whatever. No big disagreements here except it's obvious that EA didn't fuck up the initial vision, they didn't pull the plug nearly soon enough on it. That's the difference. I think this just shows that EA doesn't really care much about Bioware anymore. EDIT: Maybe one more. The whole memefest just showed how socially maladjusted the hardcores of this franchise are in many cases. Kind of like those neckbeard Star Wars fans who can't accept the prequels are urine soaked dogshit.
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Post by smilesja on Dec 26, 2017 2:40:25 GMT
But then people would complain EA fucked up their initial vision again, and the cycle continues. Honestly, I hate to say this, but I must give EA kudos for letting Montreal do their shit in the demand of a semi-open world Mass Effect game akin to ME1 in some ways, it's not easy but not impossible with enough talent, which is what they didn't have for the procedural crap. They could have made 30 planets with that and then tweak and fill them with interesting lore, landscapes and characters, instead we had a broken project for two years, and then the rushed development that led into the mess that was this game, departures, delays, marketing and the justified meme fest. I wanted to love this shit to death, I like some parts, but it's so MEDIOCRE and canned the series. I can't forgive them for that. You can do blame EA for those fucking lootboxes, though, Andrew Wilson being the logic asshole that he is. Fuck, I defended this game to oblivion before release, I had a open and excited mind from the get-go, search my posts, but I can't defend BioWare's crap, not in 2017. My brain hurts like a bitch when I consider a Mass Effect game so whatever. EDIT: Maybe one more. The whole memefest just showed how socially maladjusted the hardcores of this franchise are in many cases. Kind of like those neckbeard Star Wars fans who can't accept the prequels are urine soaked dogshit. What?
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Dec 26, 2017 2:43:08 GMT
But then people would complain EA fucked up their initial vision again, and the cycle continues. Honestly, I hate to say this, but I must give EA kudos for letting Montreal do their shit in the demand of a semi-open world Mass Effect game akin to ME1 in some ways, it's not easy but not impossible with enough talent, which is what they didn't have for the procedural crap. They could have made 30 planets with that and then tweak and fill them with interesting lore, landscapes and characters, instead we had a broken project for two years, and then the rushed development that led into the mess that was this game, departures, delays, marketing and the justified meme fest. I wanted to love this shit to death, I like some parts, but it's so MEDIOCRE and canned the series. I can't forgive them for that. You can do blame EA for those fucking lootboxes, though, Andrew Wilson being the logic asshole that he is. Fuck, I defended this game to oblivion before release, I had a open and excited mind from the get-go, search my posts, but I can't defend BioWare's crap, not in 2017. My brain hurts like a bitch when I consider a Mass Effect game so whatever. No big disagreements here except it's obvious that EA didn't fuck up the initial vision, they didn't pull the plug nearly soon enough on it. That's the difference. I think this just shows that EA doesn't really care much about Bioware anymore. EDIT: Maybe one more. The whole memefest j ust showed how socially maladjusted the hardcores of this franchise are in many cases. Kind of like those neckbeard Star Wars fans who can't accept the prequels are urine soaked dogshit. Hard to say if they do care or not, so I can't say much. We do know they are trusting Bioware to release their own Destiny to rip people off later, Anthem in that case. As for the memes, I think there are some justified anger and dissapointment poured into them, but you would not be wrong with bolded part as well. Shit, don't even get me started with those fanboys of the prequels, sighs.
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mannyray
N3
Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Drycake3000
Posts: 635 Likes: 722
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mannyray
Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
635
Jul 27, 2017 17:23:42 GMT
July 2017
mannyray
Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Drycake3000
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Post by mannyray on Dec 26, 2017 2:43:16 GMT
EDIT: Maybe one more. The whole memefest just showed how socially maladjusted the hardcores of this franchise are in many cases. Kind of like those neckbeard Star Wars fans who can't accept the prequels are urine soaked dogshit. What? Look, if you sincerely thought the prequels were great, it's nothing personal, but I can't see how a rational person can think so. Hell I own all six original films because I'm a completist. Anyway, if you like this can continue in the OT forum's Star Wars thread. We've all veered way off from the Scott Ryder V.O. guy here...
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Post by colfoley on Dec 26, 2017 2:45:42 GMT
But then people would complain EA fucked up their initial vision again, and the cycle continues. Honestly, I hate to say this, but I must give EA kudos for letting Montreal do their shit in the demand of a semi-open world Mass Effect game akin to ME1 in some ways, it's not easy but not impossible with enough talent, which is what they didn't have for the procedural crap. They could have made 30 planets with that and then tweak and fill them with interesting lore, landscapes and characters, instead we had a broken project for two years, and then the rushed development that led into the mess that was this game, departures, delays, marketing and the justified meme fest. I wanted to love this shit to death, I like some parts, but it's so MEDIOCRE and canned the series. I can't forgive them for that. You can do blame EA for those fucking lootboxes, though, Andrew Wilson being the logic asshole that he is. Fuck, I defended this game to oblivion before release, I had a open and excited mind from the get-go, search my posts, but I can't defend BioWare's crap, not in 2017. My brain hurts like a bitch when I consider a Mass Effect game so whatever. No big disagreements here except it's obvious that EA didn't fuck up the initial vision, they didn't pull the plug nearly soon enough on it. That's the difference. I think this just shows that EA doesn't really care much about Bioware anymore. EDIT: Maybe one more. The whole memefest just showed how socially maladjusted the hardcores of this franchise are in many cases. Kind of like those neckbeard Star Wars fans who can't accept the prequels are urine soaked dogshit. I'm not exactly the biggest fan of the prequels but i find this...super overboard.
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Post by smilesja on Dec 26, 2017 2:46:09 GMT
Look, if you sincerely thought the prequels were great, it's nothing personal, but I can't see how a rational person can think so. Hell I own all six original films because I'm a completist. Anyway, if you like this can continue in the OT forum's Star Wars thread. We've all veered way off from the Scott Ryder V.O. guy here... Sigh but we are off topic.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Dec 26, 2017 2:50:16 GMT
Look, if you sincerely thought the prequels were great, it's nothing personal, but I can't see how a rational person can think so. Hell I own all six original films because I'm a completist. Anyway, if you like this can continue in the OT forum's Star Wars thread. We've all veered way off from the Scott Ryder V.O. guy here... Agree, let's go there one day to rip it apart. Love it.
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mannyray
N3
Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Drycake3000
Posts: 635 Likes: 722
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Oct 21, 2024 10:36:46 GMT
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mannyray
Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
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Jul 27, 2017 17:23:42 GMT
July 2017
mannyray
Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Drycake3000
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Post by mannyray on Dec 26, 2017 2:54:05 GMT
No big disagreements here except it's obvious that EA didn't fuck up the initial vision, they didn't pull the plug nearly soon enough on it. That's the difference. I think this just shows that EA doesn't really care much about Bioware anymore. EDIT: Maybe one more. The whole memefest just showed how socially maladjusted the hardcores of this franchise are in many cases. Kind of like those neckbeard Star Wars fans who can't accept the prequels are urine soaked dogshit. I'm not exactly the biggest fan of the prequels but i find this...super overboard. This is the last thing I'll say on the matter before I'm partially responsible for mods needing to step in on the thread. I respect your opinion as a writer, Foley, but George Lucas raped my childhood wtih the prequels with essentially bad fanfiction. Okay back on topic. Yeah dude is the v/o guy for Scott.
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malgus
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 959 Likes: 1,590
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Mar 21, 2023 21:20:35 GMT
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malgus
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March 2017
malgus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by malgus on Jun 29, 2018 14:23:31 GMT
Nah it's not tom taylorson, it's an impostor.
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Nov 25, 2024 12:29:10 GMT
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Son of Dorn
Fortifying everything.
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Jan 11, 2017 14:17:27 GMT
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doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 29, 2018 16:36:25 GMT
Something smells rotten...did someone fart?
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