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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2018 14:32:38 GMT
So, Dorian’s moustache is forgotten I say! Well, you have to see him without... awww.... he is, I think, the best looking BioWare male character in the whole body of works. unfortunately, the mod that removes it was never updated as far as I can find, so it is beyond my technical ability to get him to shave it off. Blackwall also is presentable when he shaves - that option luckily is available until Trespasser. That’s my mod collection: Solas & Cullen with a bit of a tan, Solas skull and Dorian’s cheeks covered with stubble, and Blackwall - shaven.
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Post by vometia on Jan 2, 2018 15:15:32 GMT
But Dorian's moustache is... well, it's just a fundamental part of him! It's like that psychotic Magic Roundabout feature film where Zebedee's magic moustache was stolen.
I do agree that Blackwall could be a bit less Blackbeard: though I don't buy into the lack of hygiene thing, that beard is not the most aesthetic thing I've ever seen.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2018 15:35:45 GMT
But Dorian's moustache is... well, it's just a fundamental part of him! It's like that psychotic Magic Roundabout feature film where Zebedee's magic moustache was stolen. I do agree that Blackwall could be a bit less Blackbeard: though I don't buy into the lack of hygiene thing, that beard is not the most aesthetic thing I've ever seen. Well, I don't think facial hair are executed well in the game, so like the mods & wish there were more of them. This way we all can live and let live. I have a fairly long history with mods, so it does not bother me to have them. (Shrug) And maybe the OP would have been a happier man if he'd got to bang this airbrushed Cassandra: or this blonde one... or whatever...
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Post by vometia on Jan 2, 2018 15:52:51 GMT
Nooooooo, I don't want to see Dorian without his awesome moustache, make it go away! D: D: Admittedly the Cassandra with more make-up reminds me of pretty much exactly the same thing I did with Sera, however much it may meet with derision from others! But I never liked the pale-lipped look, whether on her, me or anyone else. The outfit isn't my creation, it's the Gypsy Sera mod.
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Post by Gilli on Jan 2, 2018 15:55:28 GMT
I don't like mods that change companions. I don't go to my RL friends either and tell them "dye your hair, I don't like you black haired" and I wouldn't want to hear that from my friends either. The last "friends" who tried to change me, are no longer my friends.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2018 16:02:14 GMT
I don't like mods that change companions. I don't go to my RL friends either and tell them "dye your hair, I don't like you black haired" and I wouldn't want to hear that from my friends either. The last "friends" who tried to change me, are no longer my friends. The good thing about the mods is that they are used in the privacy of your own computer, and nobody else is impacted by it. It simply gives some players a way to enjoy the game more. Companion customization options like in SWTOR are more controversial, I suppose, since it comes from BioWARE, but tbh, since BG1, the companion appearances were rather fluid, with their portraits replaced by default if the user borrowed their appearance at character creation, or swapped the portraits with custom ones. SWTOR just formalized that mechanism. You can dress and undress your companions, and folks did not like it at all when you could not do that in DA2. I would not want anyone tell me to go change into a different outfit no more than I'd like them to tell me to grow out my hair to specifically waist-length, but that's a game, not RL. Some folks like their games to be very rigid, and some prefer them to be more adaptable to their desires. There is no reason to begrudge other players for doing their own thing. "Don't like it, don't download it" was ever the modding principle
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Post by vometia on Jan 2, 2018 16:13:25 GMT
I think this wasn't so much about me trying to change my friends but just a realisation of how I thought they would actually be: in Sera's case, some of the pre-release screenshots showed her wearing much more make-up than the game and I thought it seemed more in keeping: in spite of how bad her hair was (and yeah, done the same thing myself) she's obviously conscious of her appearance.
So in my case I don't think I was doing anything outside the boundaries of what was the deal anyway, but I agree with Jade in that it's a flight of fantasy and should reflect the way you want to see it, or perhaps more accurately that you feel is a better representation. In my case I try to stay very close to the original concept of the characters, having seen a lot of mods that substantially change them, but I can't disagree with other people's rationale.
Hmm, I hope that doesn't sound hostile and stroppy, it wasn't meant to be! Just that we all have our own perception of things. I think mine is at the more conservative end of the scale but even so I seem to have this insatiable need to tinker with things.
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Post by witchcocktor on Jan 2, 2018 16:36:13 GMT
I just feel like a lot of work was done to breathe life into these characters and make them who they are. When you start tinkering with them, I just can't help but feel bad for whoever designed this character and who they designed them for. I would be mortified beyond belief if anyone took a character I designed and '' fixed '' them to their liking.
Though whatever floats your boat, I just choose to live with the things that bother me. Maybe that's masochism, I don't know.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 2, 2018 16:47:46 GMT
I think this wasn't so much about me trying to change my friends but just a realisation of how I thought they would actually be: in Sera's case, some of the pre-release screenshots showed her wearing much more make-up than the game and I thought it seemed more in keeping: in spite of how bad her hair was (and yeah, done the same thing myself) she's obviously conscious of her appearance. So in my case I don't think I was doing anything outside the boundaries of what was the deal anyway, but I agree with Jade in that it's a flight of fantasy and should reflect the way you want to see it, or perhaps more accurately that you feel is a better representation. In my case I try to stay very close to the original concept of the characters, having seen a lot of mods that substantially change them, but I can't disagree with other people's rationale. Hmm, I hope that doesn't sound hostile and stroppy, it wasn't meant to be! Just that we all have our own perception of things. I think mine is at the more conservative end of the scale but even so I seem to have this insatiable need to tinker with things. Only thing I changed in the character's appearance: it was Anders romance outfit, because that was annoying he moved in, but still wears his coat at home.
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Post by Iakus on Jan 2, 2018 17:07:06 GMT
I think this wasn't so much about me trying to change my friends but just a realisation of how I thought they would actually be: in Sera's case, some of the pre-release screenshots showed her wearing much more make-up than the game and I thought it seemed more in keeping: in spite of how bad her hair was (and yeah, done the same thing myself) she's obviously conscious of her appearance. So in my case I don't think I was doing anything outside the boundaries of what was the deal anyway, but I agree with Jade in that it's a flight of fantasy and should reflect the way you want to see it, or perhaps more accurately that you feel is a better representation. In my case I try to stay very close to the original concept of the characters, having seen a lot of mods that substantially change them, but I can't disagree with other people's rationale. Hmm, I hope that doesn't sound hostile and stroppy, it wasn't meant to be! Just that we all have our own perception of things. I think mine is at the more conservative end of the scale but even so I seem to have this insatiable need to tinker with things. Only thing I changed in the character's appearance: it was Anders romance outfit, because that was annoying he moved in, but still wears his coat at home. I used a mod that gave Isabela pants. No regrets
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Post by Walter Black on Jan 2, 2018 17:20:23 GMT
Wait a minute. Those aren't lectures about the qunari, they're Bull answering the Inquisitor's questions about the qunari. Don't want the lecture? Don't ask the questions. When you ask Dorian a question, it has to me a feel of being a lively dialogue, even if he does cover the salient lore points. In Bull’s case, it feels like boring lectures. For me it makes a big difference in terms of falling in love with the character. Sten managed to make Qunari fascinating, and my attempts to draw out some information from him were fun. Talking to Bull is like doing an on-line course. Press this button to hear more about Qunari faith! Or whatever. Sounds more like you allowed your prejudices to color what they had to say; Dorian was idealistically attractive, well dressed, had a literate vocabulary and presented an energetic personality, so he fit your preconceived definition of what an interesting person would have to say. Iron Bull had a more realistic physique, a more Spartan and utilitarian dress, and casual demeanor, so you dismissed him as just another dudebro. I've known supposedly beautiful and literate people who use BIG WORDS and drone on and on while saying very little, and so called plain folks who get to the damn point.
Oh, and those "lectures"? Since the Ben-Hassrath is still part of the Qunari priesthood, educating potential converts is part of Bull's job ...
Oh noes, Iron Bull has scars and dents and *GASP!* body fat like real world big men! How dare Bioware allow physical realism in their adult, dark fantasy that already had plenty of socio-political- psychological realism! That after everything else discussed here, you still cling to the notion of a persona's physical appearance being any kind of reflection on their intelligence and/or moral character, strikes me as shallow and sad.
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 2, 2018 17:23:22 GMT
I just feel like a lot of work was done to breathe life into these characters and make them who they are. When you start tinkering with them, I just can't help but feel bad for whoever designed this character and who they designed them for. I would be mortified beyond belief if anyone took a character I designed and '' fixed '' them to their liking. Though whatever floats your boat, I just choose to live with the things that bother me. Maybe that's masochism, I don't know. This is how I feel, though I'm not fussed if other people mod their games. Well, okay... there are a few mods out there that genuinely gross me out and I never, ever want to see screenshots of them or be reminded they exist (whitewashing, straightwashing) and there some I simply don't understand ("pretty" Aveline mods...), but when it comes to minor aesthetic tweaks I really can't be arsed. I think they're fine. But I don't like to use them because that's not the character I fell in love with and that's not how their creator envisioned them. I think Sera is Actually Perfect™, I love Fenris pores and all, etc. There are a few mods out there I like, though. One, seen in the video below, gives Sera a shorter haircut which I think would be neat in Trespasser to show the passage of time. But I love her default hair. And I've always preferred Morrigan's Sacred Ashes outfit and some of the ones in her concept art to the goofy bikini thing she wears in canon. Whatever floats one's boat, I suppose.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2018 17:26:28 GMT
I just feel like a lot of work was done to breathe life into these characters and make them who they are. When you start tinkering with them, I just can't help but feel bad for whoever designed this character and who they designed them for. I would be mortified beyond belief if anyone took a character I designed and '' fixed '' them to their liking. Though whatever floats your boat, I just choose to live with the things that bother me. Maybe that's masochism, I don't know. What distinguishes for me the games as a media from other works of fiction and the reason I play them is that they allow me to self-express through my creativity and choices I make. To me, the games were desirable specifically because they invited me to co-create. And I overall always picked the games that let me express myself as much as possible, and thus I was interested in mods since that day I complained about not really being into Anomen and someone telling me "well, download Soulafein". I was interested in modding for as long as I was able to keep up with the workloads and demands of it. When I modded, I did go through a possessive phase, but eventually accepted that it would be insanely hypocritical of me to be protective of my own characters or my character interpretations. It helped me in particular when I worked on a project that involved 20+ characters and all of them were created, edited and co-created collectively, with the authorship of each character changing hands as years went by etc. Eventually, I learned to look back at it and not feel a jealous pang when someone writes or works on the same character I did, and does it better or does something I disagree with. And even lived to see my dearest project trashed all over the net with uttermost hatred. "They" have the right to hate it as much as I have the right to write and code it (I was less tolerant of the suggestions to hack my e-mail). All of it was worth it for that one moment the characters I designed showed up on the screen and started talking. Overall, my deepest heart's desire when I play a game I enjoy to the fullest is for everyone to experience the same rapture and joy when they play it, and if all it takes for it is a smaller or bigger change somewhere, I hope they can find it, instead of being resigned for the game to under-deliver. I want people to experience the same sharp intake of breath and WOW! that I did when I saw Thane and heard that "yes, he is romanceable" and overall hearing "YES! YES, YOU CAN HAVE IT!" more often than, "Oh, no, you can't do that or feel this, because reasons and because it's better/lore/how it is."
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 2, 2018 17:32:55 GMT
Wait a minute. Those aren't lectures about the qunari, they're Bull answering the Inquisitor's questions about the qunari. Don't want the lecture? Don't ask the questions. When you ask Dorian a question, it has to me a feel of being a lively dialogue, even if he does cover the salient lore points. In Bull’s case, it feels like boring lectures. For me it makes a big difference in terms of falling in love with the character. Sten managed to make Qunari fascinating, and my attempts to draw out some information from him were fun. Talking to Bull is like doing an on-line course. Press this button to hear more about Qunari faith! Or whatever. So, Dorian’s moustache is forgotten the moment he opens his mouth & I empathize with him, and engage into a dialogue, and there are millions of things I can say to him in head anon about the things we were talking about, but with Bull, well, he better be handsome with what he has to say, and he is not... Definitely a personal issue, though. I love both characters and so I enjoy listening to what they have to say. It never feels like drudgery. I've seen people who despise Dorian as a character complain that he's lecturing them on how slavery "isn't all that bad" and they hate his sense of humor - they already dislike the character, so conversations with him are viewed negatively. People like talking to characters they like and dislike talking to characters they dislike. It doesn't mean the character is objectively bad or uninteresting.
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Post by Walter Black on Jan 2, 2018 17:34:34 GMT
I just feel like a lot of work was done to breathe life into these characters and make them who they are. When you start tinkering with them, I just can't help but feel bad for whoever designed this character and who they designed them for. I would be mortified beyond belief if anyone took a character I designed and '' fixed '' them to their liking. Though whatever floats your boat, I just choose to live with the things that bother me. Maybe that's masochism, I don't know. This is how I feel, though I'm not fussed if other people mod their games. Well, okay... there are a few mods out there that genuinely gross me out and I never, ever want to see screenshots of them or be reminded they exist (whitewashing, straightwashing) and there some I simply don't understand ("pretty" Aveline mods...), but when it comes to minor aesthetic tweaks I really can't be arsed. I think they're fine. But I don't like to use them because that's not the character I fell in love with and that's not how their creator envisioned them. I think Sera is Actually Perfect™, I love Fenris pores and all, etc. There are a few mods out there I like, though. One, seen in the video below, gives Sera a shorter haircut which I think would be neat in Trespasser to show the passage of time. But I love her default hair. And I've always preferred Morrigan's Sacred Ashes outfit and some of the ones in her concept art to the goofy bikini thing she wears in canon. Whatever floats one's boat, I suppose. I agree Companions should ultimately maintain their own personalities and beliefs, likes and dislikes. That said, I do find it funny that we can control what they wear, how they train, and in most cases influence the major directions of their lives, but can't give them a haircut and/or shave . Maybe such options could depend on our relationship status, how much they like or love us.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2018 17:37:53 GMT
When you ask Dorian a question, it has to me a feel of being a lively dialogue, even if he does cover the salient lore points. In Bull’s case, it feels like boring lectures. For me it makes a big difference in terms of falling in love with the character. Sten managed to make Qunari fascinating, and my attempts to draw out some information from him were fun. Talking to Bull is like doing an on-line course. Press this button to hear more about Qunari faith! Or whatever. So, Dorian’s moustache is forgotten the moment he opens his mouth & I empathize with him, and engage into a dialogue, and there are millions of things I can say to him in head anon about the things we were talking about, but with Bull, well, he better be handsome with what he has to say, and he is not... Definitely a personal issue, though. I love both characters and so I enjoy listening to what they have to say. It never feels like drudgery. I've seen people who despise Dorian as a character complain that he's lecturing them on how slavery "isn't all that bad" and they hate his sense of humor - they already dislike the character, so conversations with him are viewed negatively. People like talking to characters they like and dislike talking to characters they dislike. It doesn't mean the character is objectively bad or uninteresting. Well, being a personal issue, it is easily resolved by either being able to tweak Bull's appearance or romance Dorian
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Post by witchcocktor on Jan 2, 2018 17:42:07 GMT
I just feel like a lot of work was done to breathe life into these characters and make them who they are. When you start tinkering with them, I just can't help but feel bad for whoever designed this character and who they designed them for. I would be mortified beyond belief if anyone took a character I designed and '' fixed '' them to their liking. Though whatever floats your boat, I just choose to live with the things that bother me. Maybe that's masochism, I don't know. What distinguishes for me the games as a media from other works of fiction and the reason I play them is that they allow me to self-express through my creativity and choices I make. To me, the games were desirable specifically because they invited me to co-create. And I overall always picked the games that let me express myself as much as possible, and thus I was interested in mods since that day I complained about not really being into Anomen and someone telling me "well, download Soulafein". I was interested in modding for as long as I was able to keep up with the workloads and demands of it. When I modded, I did go through a possessive phase, but eventually accepted that it would be insanely hypocritical of me to be protective of my own characters or my character interpretations. It helped me in particular when I worked on a project that involved 20+ characters and all of them were created, edited and co-created collectively, with the authorship of each character changing hands as years went by etc. Eventually, I learned to look back at it and not feel a jealous pang when someone writes or works on the same character I did, and does it better or does something I disagree with. And even lived to see my dearest project trashed all over the net with uttermost hatred. "They" have the right to hate it as much as I have the right to write and code it (I was less tolerant of the suggestions to hack my e-mail). All of it was worth it for that one moment the characters I designed showed up on the screen and started talking. Overall, my deepest heart's desire when I play a game I enjoy to the fullest is for everyone to experience the same rapture and joy when they play it, and if all it takes for it is a smaller or bigger change somewhere, I hope they can find it, instead of being resigned for the game to under-deliver. I want people to experience the same sharp intake of breath and WOW! that I did when I saw Thane and heard that "yes, he is romanceable" and overall hearing "YES! YES, YOU CAN HAVE IT!" more often than, "Oh, no, you can't do that or feel this, because reasons and because it's better/lore/how it is." You can do whatever you want, but I have the right to condemn you (if I want to) on what you do if I feel like it's counter productive or offensive.
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Post by vometia on Jan 2, 2018 17:45:32 GMT
there some I simply don't understand ("pretty" Aveline mods...), but when it comes to minor aesthetic tweaks I really can't be arsed. I think they're fine. But I don't like to use them because that's not the character I fell in love with and that's not how their creator envisioned them. I think Sera is Actually Perfect™, I love Fenris pores and all, etc. Sera's make-up I spent a while agonising about, and basically used my own line of thinking: I usually can't be bothered to put it on myself but will be bothered if I feel like I need to be bothered. And I also have the experience of doing a Sera with my hair (I hasten to add it pre-dated Inquisition) in that it was really annoying me so the kitchen scissors were employed for perhaps ill-advised purposes. My avatar is taken a significant amount of time after the "argh my hair" incident, a year or more, which shows how bad it was since it's still quite bad even there. It took more years for it to recover. Where was I, anyway? I dunno, I suppose I don't actually mind being made up as long as I look pretty. My gf has occasionally tried putting foundation on me. By "occasionally" I think I mean twice ever, as my immediate response is to forget it's there and decide my nose needs a really good scratch.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2018 17:46:45 GMT
What distinguishes for me the games as a media from other works of fiction and the reason I play them is that they allow me to self-express through my creativity and choices I make. To me, the games were desirable specifically because they invited me to co-create. And I overall always picked the games that let me express myself as much as possible, and thus I was interested in mods since that day I complained about not really being into Anomen and someone telling me "well, download Soulafein". I was interested in modding for as long as I was able to keep up with the workloads and demands of it. When I modded, I did go through a possessive phase, but eventually accepted that it would be insanely hypocritical of me to be protective of my own characters or my character interpretations. It helped me in particular when I worked on a project that involved 20+ characters and all of them were created, edited and co-created collectively, with the authorship of each character changing hands as years went by etc. Eventually, I learned to look back at it and not feel a jealous pang when someone writes or works on the same character I did, and does it better or does something I disagree with. And even lived to see my dearest project trashed all over the net with uttermost hatred. "They" have the right to hate it as much as I have the right to write and code it (I was less tolerant of the suggestions to hack my e-mail). All of it was worth it for that one moment the characters I designed showed up on the screen and started talking. Overall, my deepest heart's desire when I play a game I enjoy to the fullest is for everyone to experience the same rapture and joy when they play it, and if all it takes for it is a smaller or bigger change somewhere, I hope they can find it, instead of being resigned for the game to under-deliver. I want people to experience the same sharp intake of breath and WOW! that I did when I saw Thane and heard that "yes, he is romanceable" and overall hearing "YES! YES, YOU CAN HAVE IT!" more often than, "Oh, no, you can't do that or feel this, because reasons and because it's better/lore/how it is." You can do whatever you want, but I have the right to condemn you (if I want to) on what you do if I feel like it's counter productive or offensive. That's correct. I can also chose to talk about my gaming experience or keep mum. Overall, I feel more inclined to empathize with other players and not having peeps to be afraid of talking about the games for the fear of the backlash. I wish for everyone to have the bestest story possible, and never having to worry about dreaming it up the way that suits them.
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Post by alanc9 on Jan 2, 2018 17:50:32 GMT
You can do whatever you want, but I have the right to condemn you (if I want to) on what you do if I feel like it's counter productive or offensive. "Offensive" should have a pretty high bar, shouldn't it? Although I guess whitewashing and straightwashing might do it for me, if mild disgust = offensive for our purposes.
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 2, 2018 17:56:40 GMT
You can do whatever you want, but I have the right to condemn you (if I want to) on what you do if I feel like it's counter productive or offensive. "Offensive" should have a pretty high bar, shouldn't it? Although I guess whitewashing and straightwashing might do it for me, if mild disgust = offensive for our purposes. Pretty sure that's what he was alluding to. Could be wrong, though.
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Post by witchcocktor on Jan 2, 2018 17:57:12 GMT
You can do whatever you want, but I have the right to condemn you (if I want to) on what you do if I feel like it's counter productive or offensive. "Offensive" should have a pretty high bar, shouldn't it? That differs from person to person. There are things to me that I cherish so much, and things I'm protective of, because I see them as a positive change in this world, the gaming community etc. If someone tramples all over those things, and they have no respect for whoever made them, and how important they are to some people, and how beneficial and helpful these things can be, then yeah, I'm going to call it out as offensive. Or rather, I'm going to ignore this person and hope I never have to deal with them again. I'm sensitive about certain subjects, ff you can't respect that, whatever.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2018 18:05:39 GMT
"Offensive" should have a pretty high bar, shouldn't it? That differs from person to person. There are things to me that I cherish so much, and things I'm protective of, because I see them as a positive change in this world, the gaming community etc. If someone tramples all over those things, and they have no respect for whoever made them, and how important they are to some people, and how beneficial and helpful these things can be, then yeah, I'm going to call it out as offensive. Or rather, I'm going to ignore this person and hope I never have to deal with them again. I'm sensitive about certain subjects, ff you can't respect that, whatever. The freedom of one ends where the freedom of another begins. When you take charge of your game and adapt it, you do not impact other players or the developers. In the end of the day, the developpers' greatest wish is for you, the player, to enjoy the game and purchase its sequel. The conflict between the players or the developpers vs players is counterproductive. Mutual respect for one another's happiness, and saying "yes" rather than "no" is what for me defines the essence of the community and acceptance. Live, let live is the necessary condition for never coming under the barrage of the internet criticism for an individual player for his or hers personal choices in videogaming. For me that's the main universal principle that overrides any specific point of contention. I want everyone to feel happiness and the sense of belonging when they start up a game. In the SP games it is an achievable wish & that's why it's so awesome.
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Post by alanc9 on Jan 2, 2018 18:25:38 GMT
But if someone's modding choice doesn't affect me, does my contempt for that modding choice affect him?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2018 18:40:07 GMT
But if someone's modding choice doesn't affect me, does my contempt for that modding choice affect him? If it is openly and directly worded as "you should not play the way you play" and "what you are doing/writing is wrong!" it does have impact on the other players. To avoid this, you must stay quiet about what you do. You cannot share the joy you experience from something that is a great experience for you - and therefore accept that something else is just as much a great experience for someone else. "You shall not!" gates empathy. Only the Sith think in absolutes. Particularly when they make a choice that in the essence is the same choice as the other player is making but that does not adhere to the societal expectations. The table turns very easily, and the folks who make "you shall not/I hate you for this" statements expect those tables to be bolted to the floor. For me it is important to avoid expressing contempt for someone changing things in their own game to experience ethe story that is uniquely theirs, because it makes a judgment about the player's motives & individuality. Even if I do not like their narrative, I do not want to lose it because they self-censor. I also do not feel that I have the right to tell someone "why don't you just do this and that instead, it's waaay better" because I do not feel the way the person feels, and in my experience the feelings are often contradictory and do not translate well in the discussion formats. And, well, because I am pretty sure if I search through my experience, I most likely will find the similar or inverse experience and feeling which may or may not comply with the societal approval of the day but is in the essence the same. In short, I want to belong, to accept other people's choices, and have mine accepted as well.
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