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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Oct 3, 2016 6:28:48 GMT
They had the free will not to take red lyrum, and yet they did anyhow. Still doesn't change my point. Red lyrum Templars don't become like that through an accident. So: they are became uncontrolable dangerous monster, because they wanted to be uncontrolable dangerous monster? Much better. And so much acceptable. But no: an experienced, and careful mage don't be accidently abomination. Most of the accidents was the Circle system fault: for example Meredith's sister. Orsino's description of what happened to the first First Enchanter of Kirkwall's Circle really seems to indicate that an experienced and careful mage can accidentally become an abomination. Now picture what would have happened if an abomination version of a First Enchanter level mage had been loose anywhere but the Circle. That is why, while I am willing to let careful and experienced mages out to work, I am very leery about letting them live outside the Circle permanently. Templars are more ineffecctive than Spiritual warriors vs mages since the latter have spell immunity and Dodge ability and don't need lyrium,but of course few can afford to become SW,i even think that they are better than mages since they fuse themselves with ancient spirits. A spirit warrior has the abilities of the spirits he's using, and most spirits probably don't have those abilities. Furthermore, a spirit warrior needs to worry about them trying to possess him.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 3, 2016 10:16:59 GMT
So: they are became uncontrolable dangerous monster, because they wanted to be uncontrolable dangerous monster? Much better. And so much acceptable. But no: an experienced, and careful mage don't be accidently abomination. Most of the accidents was the Circle system fault: for example Meredith's sister. Orsino's description of what happened to the first First Enchanter of Kirkwall's Circle really seems to indicate that an experienced and careful mage can accidentally become an abomination. Now picture what would have happened if an abomination version of a First Enchanter level mage had been loose anywhere but the Circle. That is why, while I am willing to let careful and experienced mages out to work, I am very leery about letting them live outside the Circle permanently. Orsino did not accidentally become an abomination, but because of desperation. Can't become accidentally Harwester somebody. The Circle system fault again. The system is wrong and dangerous. So far I have not seen too much benefit of the Circle-system. As I said: not only unjust and cruel, but also dangerous and unnecessarly. The Mages, the Templars also become crazy in the Circle.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Oct 3, 2016 10:48:13 GMT
Orsino did not accidentally become an abomination, but because of desperation. Can't become accidentally Harwester somebody. The Circle system fault again. The system is wrong and dangerous. So far I have not seen too much benefit of the Circle-system. As I said: not only unjust and cruel, but also dangerous and unnecessarly. The Mages, the Templars also become crazy in the Circle. That's not what I said, though. What I said was that the Codex entry on the Staff of Violation (which Orsino wrote) seems to be a story of a person who you absolutely would not expect to become an abomination on purpose, and who you'd expect to be competent as a mage, becoming an abomination anyway. And the benefit of the Circle system is that if there is a lot of danger to it, the danger is at least moved out of areas where a lot of non-mages live. I get that concentrating mages is dangerous, but it's not like one mage is all that much less dangerous to an untrained and unarmed peasant who couldn't even defend himself from one common bandit... which probably describes nearly every living being in this setting. The danger might be slightly amplified by putting all the mages in one place, but at least there's not a whole lot of people in the Circle without some form of magic that the danger can menace.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 3, 2016 11:05:38 GMT
Orsino did not accidentally become an abomination, but because of desperation. Can't become accidentally Harwester somebody. The Circle system fault again. The system is wrong and dangerous. So far I have not seen too much benefit of the Circle-system. As I said: not only unjust and cruel, but also dangerous and unnecessarly. The Mages, the Templars also become crazy in the Circle. That's not what I said, though. What I said was that the Codex entry on the Staff of Violation (which Orsino wrote) seems to be a story of a person who you absolutely would not expect to become an abomination on purpose, and who you'd expect to be competent as a mage, becoming an abomination anyway. And the benefit of the Circle system is that if there is a lot of danger to it, the danger is at least moved out of areas where a lot of non-mages live. I get that concentrating mages is dangerous, but it's not like one mage is all that much less dangerous to an untrained and unarmed peasant who couldn't even defend himself from one common bandit... which probably describes nearly every living being in this setting. The danger might be slightly amplified by putting all the mages in one place, but at least there's not a whole lot of people in the Circle without some form of magic that the danger can menace. The really dangerous mages, as Vivienne for example, freely can left the Circles. Safe, really. Far more dangerous Circle system as the freedom. And there is no reason to imprison innocent people. Never. So: unnecessarly, unjust, dangerous. There is no reason to keep the system.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Oct 3, 2016 19:09:10 GMT
That's not what I said, though. What I said was that the Codex entry on the Staff of Violation (which Orsino wrote) seems to be a story of a person who you absolutely would not expect to become an abomination on purpose, and who you'd expect to be competent as a mage, becoming an abomination anyway. And the benefit of the Circle system is that if there is a lot of danger to it, the danger is at least moved out of areas where a lot of non-mages live. I get that concentrating mages is dangerous, but it's not like one mage is all that much less dangerous to an untrained and unarmed peasant who couldn't even defend himself from one common bandit... which probably describes nearly every living being in this setting. The danger might be slightly amplified by putting all the mages in one place, but at least there's not a whole lot of people in the Circle without some form of magic that the danger can menace. The really dangerous mages, as Vivienne for example, freely can left the Circles. Safe, really. Far more dangerous Circle system as the freedom. And there is no reason to imprison innocent people. Never. So: unnecessarly, unjust, dangerous. There is no reason to keep the system. The mages who are able to leave the Circles through manipulating the system or just powering their way out are competent enough that they probably won't become abominations unless they do something stupid. I'd rather they stayed in the Circles, since the Staff of Violation story indicates that they still can go abomination without wanting to, but the ones who I'm really worried about (the otherwise weak mages who are at greater risk of accidentally becoming abominations) can't do either of those. The ones who aren't that competent are probably stuck in the Circles if they manage to get into them. As for your assertion that there is never reason to detain innocent people, nobody believes that. People who are sick with something contagious and dangerous can be held until they're cured so that that disease doesn't spread. Mentally ill people who are dangerous to themselves or others (or both) can be held until the danger passes. Neither of those is a moral failing, but they're both ways that you can be dangerous without a moral failing being required, and both are viewed as reason to detain people who don't have any moral failings serious enough to merit it. And both are arguably comparable to the threat of accidentally becoming an abomination.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 3, 2016 19:19:35 GMT
The really dangerous mages, as Vivienne for example, freely can left the Circles. Safe, really. Far more dangerous Circle system as the freedom. And there is no reason to imprison innocent people. Never. So: unnecessarly, unjust, dangerous. There is no reason to keep the system. The mages who are able to leave the Circles through manipulating the system or just powering their way out are competent enough that they probably won't become abominations unless they do something stupid. I'd rather they stayed in the Circles, since the Staff of Violation story indicates that they still can go abomination without wanting to, but the ones who I'm really worried about (the otherwise weak mages who are at greater risk of accidentally becoming abominations) can't do either of those. The ones who aren't that competent are probably stuck in the Circles if they manage to get into them. As for your assertion that there is never reason to detain innocent people, nobody believes that. People who are sick with something contagious and dangerous can be held until they're cured so that that disease doesn't spread. Mentally ill people who are dangerous to themselves or others (or both) can be held until the danger passes. Neither of those is a moral failing, but they're both ways that you can be dangerous without a moral failing being required, and both are viewed as reason to detain people who don't have any moral failings serious enough to merit it. And both are arguably comparable to the threat of accidentally becoming an abomination. Didn't you say that they accidentally to become abominations? ... But you not right: to become abomination, the mage need to accept the demon's offer. The mages, who are able to leave the Circles maybe really trustworthy, but maybe only manipulative. I think, Vivienne too hungry for power. Exactly such people fall into temptation. Mages are not mentally ill.
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 3, 2016 19:42:50 GMT
As long as magic exists, so should Templars. Regardless of anything, mundanes require a countermeasure against any hostile magic, as it would be dangerously naive to have the mages themselves keep this sort of thing in check. What should be removed, however, is the Chantry's grip on the order. That it's part of a religious institution is a big problem, as is the permanence of the average mage's stay in a circle. That mages are denied lands and ties to bloodlines does no one any real favor, and leaves the door open for future Uldreds. That they are put to the test to determine their ability to resist possession but can still be held captive indefinitely is bullshit and is a poor practice.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 19:46:37 GMT
Ok, but it was never addressed in the game and I have neither read the books nor the comics (and I won't be due to vision issues), and I think things like that are a big problem with the game. A casual playerwho doesn't read the books/comics are left in the dark if things like that aren't addressed properly. To base the next game on books/comics without a proper disclosure can make some players feel disconnected from the story and become frustrated with the lack of continuation in the plot. Going that way also brings up new questions too. If a Templar loses his/her powers from stpping their lyrium use, can they get them back years later if they start taking it again? In Allister's case, if he starts taking lyrium, will he have the powers of a Grey Warden and a Templar, or would one over rule the other? I don't know, it all seems incomplete in the story telling. The comics confirmed that if a Templar loses his abilities due to not taking lyrium, he can regain them if he starts taking lyrium again. You can never lose the abilities of a warden so thats a moot point So, question. Does it also say anything about what happens if a muggle with no Templar training takes lyrium? I mean, if Templars get their abilities from lyrium, then can't it be assumed any mundane taking it can gain abilities? No, you can't lose warden abilities, but are the instincts/abilities of a warden stronger, weaker or just as strong as a Templar? And one warden lost her abilities, so you can't say 'never' and if it's ever discovered how, I'm sure more would shed their powers quite willingly.
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Post by Sah291 on Oct 3, 2016 20:41:30 GMT
The comics confirmed that if a Templar loses his abilities due to not taking lyrium, he can regain them if he starts taking lyrium again. You can never lose the abilities of a warden so thats a moot point So, question. Does it also say anything about what happens if a muggle with no Templar training takes lyrium? I mean, if Templars get their abilities from lyrium, then can't it be assumed any mundane taking it can gain abilities? Good question, I would also be interested to know if they have ever addressed this. I mean, that would essentially mean some mages can become mages through lyrium exposure. My guess is it should be possible in theory, but skills might be unlikely to fully develop without training. Given the tight control of the lyrium trade, and general fears about magic, probably few would attempt it or pursue it willingly, and it would probably be considered pretty dangerous outside a controlled environment like the Circle. Especially knowing the long term effects on Templars. But it must happen from time to time.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 20:50:43 GMT
So, question. Does it also say anything about what happens if a muggle with no Templar training takes lyrium? I mean, if Templars get their abilities from lyrium, then can't it be assumed any mundane taking it can gain abilities? Good question, I would also be interested to know if they have ever addressed this. I mean, that would essentially mean some mages can become mages through lyrium exposure. My guess is it should be possible in theory, but skills might be unlikely to fully develop without training. Given the tight control of the lyrium trade, and general fears about magic, probably few would attempt it or pursue it willingly, and it would probably be considered pretty dangerous outside a controlled environment like the Circle. Especially knowing the long term effects on Templars. But it must happen from time to time. The Inquisition kind of weakened the Chantry's grip on the lyrium trade too, not to mention the availability of lyrium in Tevinter. There has to be mundanes out there that have tried the stuff, somewhere, if it's what gives Templars their 'abilities' and not the training, then lyrium should be able to effect anyone, not just mages and Templars, and give them some sort of powers. IMO
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Post by Sah291 on Oct 3, 2016 21:07:05 GMT
Good question, I would also be interested to know if they have ever addressed this. I mean, that would essentially mean some mages can become mages through lyrium exposure. My guess is it should be possible in theory, but skills might be unlikely to fully develop without training. Given the tight control of the lyrium trade, and general fears about magic, probably few would attempt it or pursue it willingly, and it would probably be considered pretty dangerous outside a controlled environment like the Circle. Especially knowing the long term effects on Templars. But it must happen from time to time. The Inquisition kind of weakened the Chantry's grip on the lyrium trade too, not to mention the availability of lyrium in Tevinter. There has to be mundanes out there that have tried the stuff, somewhere, if it's what gives Templars their 'abilities' and not the training, then lyrium should be able to effect anyone, not just mages and Templars, and give them some sort of powers. IMO I'm thinking it's probably both. Like, lyrium could awaken or open the door to potential abilities, but then the training is needed to actually do anything with it. And then some people were just born with the talent, or came from a family or blood line that had it. But then we have people like Felix, who must have had all the proper breeding and lyrium and training available in Tevinter, but never became very talented or interested in magic. So there has to be more to what makes a mage. And Templars too. Maybe it's down to mostly intangible things, like personality, interest level, and desire to be one.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 21:24:07 GMT
The Inquisition kind of weakened the Chantry's grip on the lyrium trade too, not to mention the availability of lyrium in Tevinter. There has to be mundanes out there that have tried the stuff, somewhere, if it's what gives Templars their 'abilities' and not the training, then lyrium should be able to effect anyone, not just mages and Templars, and give them some sort of powers. IMO I'm thinking it's probably both. Like, lyrium could awaken or open the door to potential abilities, but then the training is needed to actually do anything with it. And then some people were just born with the talent, or came from a family or blood line that had it. But then we have people like Felix, who must have had all the proper breeding and lyrium and training available in Tevinter, but never became very talented or interested in magic. So there has to be more to what makes a mage. And Templars too. There is so much unexplored potential. IF any citizen can gain some sort of ability using lyrium, then you could have a society of mundanes that can defend themselves against rogue mages and it would make keeping all mages in towers less necessary. It would greatly weaken the anti-mage resolve. Just saying.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 21:36:18 GMT
I'm thinking it's probably both. Like, lyrium could awaken or open the door to potential abilities, but then the training is needed to actually do anything with it. And then some people were just born with the talent, or came from a family or blood line that had it. But then we have people like Felix, who must have had all the proper breeding and lyrium and training available in Tevinter, but never became very talented or interested in magic. So there has to be more to what makes a mage. And Templars too. There is so much unexplored potential. IF any citizen can gain some sort of ability using lyrium, then you could have a society of mundanes that can defend themselves against rogue mages and it would make keeping all mages in towers less necessary. It would greatly weaken the anti-mage resolve. Just saying. But than your supporting drug-over dose for non Mage citizens. Is that better than what the Chantry does to the Templars?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 21:43:15 GMT
There is so much unexplored potential. IF any citizen can gain some sort of ability using lyrium, then you could have a society of mundanes that can defend themselves against rogue mages and it would make keeping all mages in towers less necessary. It would greatly weaken the anti-mage resolve. Just saying. But than your supporting drug-over dose for non Mage citizens. Is that better than what the Chantry does to the Templars? I'm advocating a choice for those who choose that road to protect themselves instead of leaving it up to the Chantry to decide. And who knows, maybe with a higher number of people usiong lyrium, someone may come up with a way to refine the lyrium better and make it less toxic.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 21:51:43 GMT
But than your supporting drug-over dose for non Mage citizens. Is that better than what the Chantry does to the Templars? I'm advocating a choice for those who choose that road to protect themselves instead of leaving it up to the Chantry to decide. And who knows, maybe with a higher number of people usiong lyrium, someone may come up with a way to refine the lyrium better and make it less toxic. No. it's a dangerous drug, no matter how you word it, I protect against this idea, for several reasons - you'd ruin people's lives - as they lose their minds due to Lyruim addiction, and it's not worth it, mages are dangerous regardless if you have a lyrum addiction of not, and it wouldn't fix anything, it would make things worse, for the worse. It would probably destroy the Karta (and the lyrum trade). What your suggesting is crap. Sorry, but not sorry, the threat of them turning towards red lyrum is too high of a possibility.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 22:21:25 GMT
I'm advocating a choice for those who choose that road to protect themselves instead of leaving it up to the Chantry to decide. And who knows, maybe with a higher number of people usiong lyrium, someone may come up with a way to refine the lyrium better and make it less toxic. No. it's a dangerous drug, no matter how you word it, I protect against this idea, for several reasons - you'd ruin people's lives - as they lose their minds due to Lyruim addiction, and it's not worth it, mages are dangerous regardless if you have a lyrum addiction of not, and it wouldn't fix anything, it would make things worse, for the worse. It would probably destroy the Karta (and the lyrum trade). What your suggesting is crap. Sorry, but not sorry, the threat of them turning towards red lyrum is too high of a possibility. Lives are already being ruined, for one. And has there ever been any information on lyrium BEFORE the veil went up? It seems to me that it is a life giving resource since it is the blood of Titans and it has a connection to the spirits. What if lyrium in today's Thedas is actually a polluted version of pre-veil lyrium and the cloudy blue tinge is actually impurities that render the lyrium toxic and dangerous? What if lyrium was 'The Makers' way of creating life in the world and if purified to it's original state, it can actually cure Thedas? What if the Titans were given life as a means to circulate the impurities from the lyrium, kind of like how our hearts circulate our blood, a necessary mesure after the veil went up because the veil cut off the flow of lyrium circulateing in and out of the fade and to prevent it from stagnateing, drastic measures had to be taken? What if lyrium purified to it's natural state, is only needed to be consumed once to achieve it's optimal permanent effects and since it is only being consumed once, there is no chance it becomes addictive? Not to mention, what if it's the impurities that are addictive and not the lyrium itself? Just saying.
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Post by Sah291 on Oct 3, 2016 22:22:18 GMT
GoldenGail3 They wouldn't all necessarily need the lyrium, if that were the case, in my opinion. It just would prove there is some aspect about magic that is learned, and puts a wrench in the theory about it being a curse or punishment for offending the Maker. Like maybe it's just a natural ability that awakens in some people for whatever reason. Lyrium would still be a tool, but there would probably be other ways. And maybe the problem with lyrium is they are using way more than they need. Maybe because they have the wrong perspective on magic being mostly bloodline and therefore enhanced through external means. Dreamers don't technically need to use it at all, but there is little known about that school of magic since the Elven empire fell and the Magisters came to power in Tevinter. Still no one is suggesting magic is perfectly safe or can be made to be. But few things are.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 22:39:47 GMT
GoldenGail3 They wouldn't all necessarily need the lyrium, if that were the case, in my opinion. It just would prove there is some aspect about magic that is learned, and puts a wrench in the theory about it being a curse or punishment for offending the Maker. Like maybe it's just a natural ability that awakens in some people for whatever reason. Lyrium would still be a tool, but there would probably be other ways. And maybe the problem with lyrium is they are using way more than they need. Maybe because they have the wrong perspective on magic being mostly bloodline and therefore enhanced through external means. Dreamers don't technically need to use it at all, but there is little known about that school of magic since the Elven empire fell and the Magisters came to power in Tevinter. Still no one is suggesting magic is perfectly safe or can be made to be. But few things are. Meh, I was suggesing that letting lyrum out as a drug so would cause more problems rather than solve anything it's not worth the risk, and I have a real life problem with drugs (seriously, bad experience) and I've seen Lyrum in game drive people out of there mind, as well as it feeds ozammars people, so you'd be destroying a economy through that action, and that's not worth it, basically, is what I'm thinking. And maybe even having people become seekers is a better solution than allowing drug- addicts into Ferelden.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 22:55:56 GMT
No. it's a dangerous drug, no matter how you word it, I protect against this idea, for several reasons - you'd ruin people's lives - as they lose their minds due to Lyruim addiction, and it's not worth it, mages are dangerous regardless if you have a lyrum addiction of not, and it wouldn't fix anything, it would make things worse, for the worse. It would probably destroy the Karta (and the lyrum trade). What your suggesting is crap. Sorry, but not sorry, the threat of them turning towards red lyrum is too high of a possibility. Lives are already being ruined, for one. And has there ever been any information on lyrium BEFORE the veil went up? It seems to me that it is a life giving resource since it is the blood of Titans and it has a connection to the spirits. What if lyrium in today's Thedas is actually a polluted version of pre-veil lyrium and the cloudy blue tinge is actually impurities that render the lyrium toxic and dangerous? What if lyrium was 'The Makers' way of creating life in the world and if purified to it's original state, it can actually cure Thedas? What if the Titans were given life as a means to circulate the impurities from the lyrium, kind of like how our hearts circulate our blood, a necessary mesure after the veil went up because the veil cut off the flow of lyrium circulateing in and out of the fade and to prevent it from stagnateing, drastic measures had to be taken? What if lyrium purified to it's natural state, is only needed to be consumed once to achieve it's optimal permanent effects and since it is only being consumed once, there is no chance it becomes addictive? Not to mention, what if it's the impurities that are addictive and not the lyrium itself? Just saying. In its processed form, lyrium may be handled by anyone, but long term exposure or a single mistake while working with it can lead to serious side effects. Prolonged use by Templar becomes addictive, the cravings unbearable. The effects of lyrium addiction for templars include paranoia, obsession, and dementia Symptoms of lyrium hunger pangs include fatigue, headaches, forgetfulness, an unquenchable thirst, and cold hands. Over time, templars grow disoriented, incapable of distinguishing memory from present, or dream from waking. They frequently become paranoid as their worst memories and nightmares haunt their waking hours. Cullen states that templars also lose their memories to prolong imbibing of lyrium. It starts small at first- a misplaced item or words to a song- but more fades away over time. Mages have additionally been known to suffer physical mutation. According to Vivienne, anything that increases the capacity of a mage's magic (such as lyrium) creates a damaging effect on the body. For mages, this is known as mana imbalance. Some adverse effects of mana imbalance may include conscious dreaming in the Fade (such as those experienced during the Harrowing periods of dizziness, and hearing voices. Unlike templars, mages are able to recuperate from the adverse effects. - dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/LyriumIt also also states that spirts are immune to the effects, so I suggest that people take lyrium are trained Seekers, and one way or another, it's addictive and poisonous to people, and it'd be idiotic to suggest giving untrained people such a drug, and if you'd like to know, my father was a drug addicts, and you know what ended up happening to him? He died of drug overdose, and I feel like that's a sufficient reason not to give people such a drug in the name of Mage Freedom, as people will have to grow those drugs.. and they might end up killing all mages anyhow, as the wikia pages states that all mages who are in the presence of raw lyrum will die instantly (besides for Hawke, apperately.. but maybe Red Lyriums different.....) Or are you so inconsiderate, you'd just let those things happen? You'd kill mages, on masses, if you allowed lyrium to be grown as a crop, you'd have entire towns that are suffering from the fumes of lyrium, and the dwarves probably would refuse to give people lyrium, so yeah, you'd be forced to grow your own lyrium, and without Ozammars dwarves, your pretty much screwed on that part.
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Post by Sah291 on Oct 3, 2016 23:07:02 GMT
GoldenGail3 They wouldn't all necessarily need the lyrium, if that were the case, in my opinion. It just would prove there is some aspect about magic that is learned, and puts a wrench in the theory about it being a curse or punishment for offending the Maker. Like maybe it's just a natural ability that awakens in some people for whatever reason. Lyrium would still be a tool, but there would probably be other ways. And maybe the problem with lyrium is they are using way more than they need. Maybe because they have the wrong perspective on magic being mostly bloodline and therefore enhanced through external means. Dreamers don't technically need to use it at all, but there is little known about that school of magic since the Elven empire fell and the Magisters came to power in Tevinter. Still no one is suggesting magic is perfectly safe or can be made to be. But few things are. Meh, I was suggesing that letting lyrum out as a drug so would cause more problems rather than solve anything it's not worth the risk, and I have a real life problem with drugs (seriously, bad experience) and I've seen Lyrum in game drive people out of there mind, as well as it feeds ozammars people, so you'd be destroying a economy through that action, and that's not worth it, basically, is what I'm thinking. And maybe even having people become seekers is a better solution than allowing drug- addicts into Ferelden. Well, that would still require society to change to accept people working with spirits, since Seekers do. So any way you slice it, freeing mages and Templars exposes mundanes to a lot of new practices and ideas they didn't have access to previously, and things would change for them. But honestly, I think the Veil changes the whole game in terms of magic. Like rift magic being very different. So depends what happens with that.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 23:13:26 GMT
Meh, I was suggesing that letting lyrum out as a drug so would cause more problems rather than solve anything it's not worth the risk, and I have a real life problem with drugs (seriously, bad experience) and I've seen Lyrum in game drive people out of there mind, as well as it feeds ozammars people, so you'd be destroying a economy through that action, and that's not worth it, basically, is what I'm thinking. And maybe even having people become seekers is a better solution than allowing drug- addicts into Ferelden. Well, that would still require society to change to accept people working with spirits, since Seekers do. So any way you slice it, freeing mages and Templars exposes mundanes to a lot of new practices and ideas they didn't have access to previously, and things would change for them. But honestly, I think the Veil changes the whole game in terms of magic. Like rift magic being very different. So depends what happens with that. Lol, Mage freedom Is going to backfire if this is the way they get freed, lol.
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Post by Duke Cameron on Oct 3, 2016 23:24:43 GMT
When i first played Origins i chose the mages simply because i wasn't going to follow Cullen's suggestion. I met Cullen and simply told him no. I decided to not help him and sided with the mages. In the second game, i loved having a little sister to protect and would do anything to make sure that she could one day walk around as a free person instead of being in a circle. I want Hawke and her to be able to share that big house as a family and i generally felt no problem with what Anders did. In Inquisition i stayed the course and sided with the mages as free allies. I felt that they could help the situation more then the Templars could and despite never playing as a mage i've always kind of sided with their side of the story. I never had any interest in playing on the side of the Templars.
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Post by thesupremedarkone on Oct 3, 2016 23:34:33 GMT
The comics confirmed that if a Templar loses his abilities due to not taking lyrium, he can regain them if he starts taking lyrium again. You can never lose the abilities of a warden so thats a moot point So, question. Does it also say anything about what happens if a muggle with no Templar training takes lyrium? I mean, if Templars get their abilities from lyrium, then can't it be assumed any mundane taking it can gain abilities? No, you can't lose warden abilities, but are the instincts/abilities of a warden stronger, weaker or just as strong as a Templar? And one warden lost her abilities, so you can't say 'never' and if it's ever discovered how, I'm sure more would shed their powers quite willingly. Anyone can get Templar abilities without training. You just need to take a specially prepared form of lyrium because regular lyrium will just kill nonmages. Apparently warden abilities get stronger with age. Also Fiona is a special exception
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 23:52:37 GMT
Lives are already being ruined, for one. And has there ever been any information on lyrium BEFORE the veil went up? It seems to me that it is a life giving resource since it is the blood of Titans and it has a connection to the spirits. What if lyrium in today's Thedas is actually a polluted version of pre-veil lyrium and the cloudy blue tinge is actually impurities that render the lyrium toxic and dangerous? What if lyrium was 'The Makers' way of creating life in the world and if purified to it's original state, it can actually cure Thedas? What if the Titans were given life as a means to circulate the impurities from the lyrium, kind of like how our hearts circulate our blood, a necessary mesure after the veil went up because the veil cut off the flow of lyrium circulateing in and out of the fade and to prevent it from stagnateing, drastic measures had to be taken? What if lyrium purified to it's natural state, is only needed to be consumed once to achieve it's optimal permanent effects and since it is only being consumed once, there is no chance it becomes addictive? Not to mention, what if it's the impurities that are addictive and not the lyrium itself? Just saying. In its processed form, lyrium may be handled by anyone, but long term exposure or a single mistake while working with it can lead to serious side effects. Prolonged use by Templar becomes addictive, the cravings unbearable. The effects of lyrium addiction for templars include paranoia, obsession, and dementia Symptoms of lyrium hunger pangs include fatigue, headaches, forgetfulness, an unquenchable thirst, and cold hands. Over time, templars grow disoriented, incapable of distinguishing memory from present, or dream from waking. They frequently become paranoid as their worst memories and nightmares haunt their waking hours. Cullen states that templars also lose their memories to prolong imbibing of lyrium. It starts small at first- a misplaced item or words to a song- but more fades away over time. Mages have additionally been known to suffer physical mutation. According to Vivienne, anything that increases the capacity of a mage's magic (such as lyrium) creates a damaging effect on the body. For mages, this is known as mana imbalance. Some adverse effects of mana imbalance may include conscious dreaming in the Fade (such as those experienced during the Harrowing periods of dizziness, and hearing voices. Unlike templars, mages are able to recuperate from the adverse effects. - dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/LyriumIt also also states that spirts are immune to the effects, so I suggest that people take lyrium are trained Seekers, and one way or another, it's addictive and poisonous to people, and it'd be idiotic to suggest giving untrained people such a drug, and if you'd like to know, my father was a drug addicts, and you know what ended up happening to him? He died of drug overdose, and I feel like that's a sufficient reason not to give people such a drug in the name of Mage Freedom, as people will have to grow those drugs.. and they might end up killing all mages anyhow, as the wikia pages states that all mages who are in the presence of raw lyrum will die instantly (besides for Hawke, apperately.. but maybe Red Lyriums different.....) Or are you so inconsiderate, you'd just let those things happen? You'd kill mages, on masses, if you allowed lyrium to be grown as a crop, you'd have entire towns that are suffering from the fumes of lyrium, and the dwarves probably would refuse to give people lyrium, so yeah, you'd be forced to grow your own lyrium, and without Ozammars dwarves, your pretty much screwed on that part. What your relating are the effects of present day lyrium, there is no information on pre-veil lyrium, is there? Wow, you're taking this too personally and not looking into it as a fictional possibility. How they refine lyrium in Thedas may not even be the most optimal process and something extra could be needed. Ya know, one of those ancient elven technologies that were lost to history, after the veil went up. Considering lyrium is a made up substance that has no true history, there can new insights gained on it. I mean hey, it would appear that DA facts get changed all the time, why not flirt with the possibility that lyrium has a history that needs to be explored other than being some drug. It's been thousands of years since the veil went up, that's long enough for a basically neutral substence to become contaminated and a danger to the people.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 23:58:30 GMT
So, question. Does it also say anything about what happens if a muggle with no Templar training takes lyrium? I mean, if Templars get their abilities from lyrium, then can't it be assumed any mundane taking it can gain abilities? No, you can't lose warden abilities, but are the instincts/abilities of a warden stronger, weaker or just as strong as a Templar? And one warden lost her abilities, so you can't say 'never' and if it's ever discovered how, I'm sure more would shed their powers quite willingly. Anyone can get Templar abilities without training. You just need to take a specially prepared form of lyrium because regular lyrium will just kill nonmages. Apparently warden abilities get stronger with age. Also Fiona is a special exception Please don't tell me Fiona is special because of Maric's dragon blood wonder sperm getting her pregnant, because if that were the case, then any female warden getting impregnated by a Qunari should be able to become taint free. I would think dragon blood in Qunari would be stronger than the dragon blood in Maric.
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