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Post by midnight tea on Sept 20, 2017 23:05:45 GMT
Spirits definitely can read minds. Cole always knew who Solas and Blackwall were, Sloth put people into scenarios they wouldn't want to wake from, Pharamond's demon was able to sense that Wynne was an abomination, Imshael knew that Michel was elf-blooded. Yea, spirits being able to read minds is sort of without question, I think that what is mostly contested is the the idea that this is not just a spirit talent. Still, we have to keep in mind that spirits may not read us like an open book - Cole tells us that he only hears things when people need him, or some people - like Cory - are just too loud or chaotic to make a clear reading. Nightmare seemed to have exploited fears. I guess it depends also on how powerful or complex the spirit is, with more powerful ones likely to glance more from head than weaker ones. I like the idea that Solas may have assumed other names like Abelas did, because he mentions that the Dread Wolf as an insult he took as a badge of honour. That could suggest that he may have originally called himself something else while rebelling against the Evanuris. Also makes me wonder how he views the persona of Fen'harel and Solas. Does he view them as almost separate entities, Fen'harel as the nom de guerre he uses to strike fear into the hearts of his enemies, while Solas is the elf underneath the mask? Could that be the reason why he's dressed to the nines at the end of Trespasser, having shed the "apostate hobo" persona of Solas to done the Ancient Elven armour of Fen'harel? Always enjoy see fiction play with what really constitutes the "real" name of a character?
The Doctor: The name I chose is "the Doctor". The name you choose, it's like a promise you make.
Revan: "Revan". It is not my real name, it never was... but it will do.
Batman: The voice kept calling me "Bruce". In my mind, that's not what I call myself. Solas even comments in Trespasser that the name Fen'harel is no different than "Inquisitor" in how it's perceived by their allies and enemies. Also ties how into Jaws of Hakkon when the Inquisitor can admits to Scout Harding that sometimes it feels like the "Inquisitor" persona is subsuming their original identity. I think Dragon Age is one of those stories where names signify more than just a... well... name. Or just something people go by to be recognized. Like you mentioned, it's also about identity, or role or what people attribute when they hear certain names. Cole has interesting dialogues or comments concerning Blackwall or Bull and their name choices for example, or mentions in Trespasser how new name for the Divine makes the 'old name' slips away from whoever is chosen as Divine. Anyway - I know people interpret this piece of dialogue differently, but in dialogue with romance Lavellan when we pick 'and so he did...' in response to him mentioning the Dalish curse, he does say to Lavellan that 'he wouldn't have laid with her under false pretenses'. His feelings weren't false, so he sounded like he denied that he's 'taken' her as Fen'Harel - a false pretense. The persona of Fen'Harel seems to be one Solas assumes when there's some questionable or dark things to do - one that is bigger than himself, like Inky. And while he tries to at least vaguely separate from it ("I was Solas first, Fen'Harel came later" - he speaks of 'Solas' in first person, and Fen'Harel in third), it would seem that he drifts towards it supplanting his old identity, which is why the Tower card appears with dark wolf dominating the card and possibly absorbing the figure on it, or why spirit!Cole can tell us in Trespasser that he will go back into the Fade after all that, because 'someone is hurting and he has to remember who he is'. |
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Post by Sifr on Sept 20, 2017 23:14:41 GMT
Cole's another good example of someone defining themselves with a name.
He was Compassion, but he chose to become Cole to try to help a dying boy. Even after remembering who and what he really is (post-Asunder), he still continues to identify himself to others as "Cole" rather than Compassion.
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Post by Walter Black on Sept 22, 2017 23:10:10 GMT
Perhaps spirits and ancient elves aren't the only ones with mind reading abilities, because it seems like you're in my head now, Tea.  I agree that it seems like at least some of the ancient elves seem to swap out names in accordance with major life changes. I also agree with your idea of the white wolf = post solas/pre rebellion thing. Or, perhaps it was two sides of the same coin thing? Like Mythal was both justice and vengeance. There is that shrine in the Exalted Plains with one white wolf, and one black. Maybe it's just my frame of reference, but I always figured "The White Wolf" was an Elric shout out. |
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Post by Auirel on Sept 23, 2017 14:30:18 GMT
Wait...what is this!?! You can leave an offering!? How? When you first approach the shrine and stand next to to what looks like a small altar (somewhat behind where we can stick Inquisition flag) there should be an option to leave an offering. I just had a look at the altar myself (even fell into that acidic pool more than once) and I couldn't see any prompt to leave offerings  . Although there is one of those elven artifacts that gives slight approval from Solas right at the start of the bridge. Although if it were there I might have missed it because I've got Solas up to max approval anyway. |
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Post by NeverlandHunter on Sept 23, 2017 19:16:23 GMT
Yeah, all those times I wish Lavellan could say what I wanted her to say instead of her script options This is why Solas doesn't want to have a real conversation with her, though. We only got what we did in Trespasser because he had to see her to save her life, but I wonder if we'd gotten that much if he didn't have to make an appearance. What gets me about Solas is he knows challenge is his pride, yet he's still caught up on thinking he knows best. Take a breath, Solas, and listen to other people! Hmmmm.... why do you assume WE (because protagonist is our proxy) know better than Solas? Is it pride?  I'd like to point out that so far Solas is the one who sees the fuller picture, being the one who knows how world and people were before and are now. We have no such perspective (yet). And the one other person we know of who's seen the past also doesn't seem to eager to preserve the status quo, even if Mythal's plans ultimately don't align with Solas in 100%. I sometimes wonder whether DA4 will be the deconstruction of protagonist's self-assuredness in their own actions or moral code, given what we may yet find out... I mean... I certainly chuckled at people eager to destroy Solas only because he undercut our proxy's control over everything. Had even more laugh at those complaining how "Teagan is an asshole!", give that his concerns were perfectly legit and understandable - but of course he's 'wrong' because he ain't nice to our proxy. DA4 may be very interesting in that regard. Welp, my Lavellan is a character unto herself. We share differing views and I get so into an RP that I make decisions based on her thinking, and not my own  But yes, I am the Gamer, and I know all!! All must bow before my knowledge and accept my pure understanding of the franchise! More seriously, though I think you're giving Solas a tad too much credit with his ability to see the fuller picture because he's lived in two worlds. He's one of the only characters we've gotten to focus on who's lived in both worlds, but not the only, and every one we've seen has had pretty differing views. And Solas has only lived a few years in modern Thedas after living an assumed many, many years in the Ancient world ruled by elves. Of course his opinions and perceptions are going to be colored. It's natural for someone to prefer what they've known and to think that's the best, but why is Solas a wisdom in this? The Architect and Corypheus might have a preference for pre-Blights unleashed Thedas, but if would the idea of replacing modern Thedas with that world be any form of acceptable? I'll fight with you, Solas. I only like tea when it's crammed full of sugar and kept cold like any proper beverage should.Honestly hot beverages are just a sin against mankind. Hot drinks were the drinks of the past! I don't remember the time when drinks that were cold weren't really cold and hot kept you warm on bitter winter nights! This generation has no appreciation for tradition! Making tea cold, drinking milk out of plastic bottles, and your spirits out of tin! expressing it here to avoid offtopic clutter in the Twitter thread: I hate tea. how unintentionally apt  You take that back! Every time someone says they hate tea, an Englishman dies.   I needed that laugh! We know he woke up a year before joining the PC. And that he had some encounters with the Dalish in that time and tried to help them by sharing his knowledge. What I'm wondering today is how many Dalish clans did he try to speak to? They are spread out across Thedas, and usually keep to themselves and try to be hard to find. He also had to be doing other stuff in that year period too, like acclimatizing to the new world, recovering strength slowly, dealing with his agents, and finding out as much as he could about the world as it is now and its different nations, factions, ways of life and establishments. We know he wandered around to sleep in various places to dream there and see what happened in the past, like at Ostagar. So amongst all that, how many times did he try to speak to the Dalish? How many different clans did he have a go at and give a chance? I also wonder about his interpersonal manner during these contact attempts. He didn't think of them as real people at that point.    Bringing this back, cause it never stops being funny or relevant. And I'm dead! We know he woke up a year before joining the PC. And that he had some encounters with the Dalish in that time and tried to help them by sharing his knowledge. What I'm wondering today is how many Dalish clans did he try to speak to? They are spread out across Thedas, and usually keep to themselves and try to be hard to find. He also had to be doing other stuff in that year period too, like acclimatizing to the new world, recovering strength slowly, dealing with his agents, and finding out as much as he could about the world as it is now and its different nations, factions, ways of life and establishments. We know he wandered around to sleep in various places to dream there and see what happened in the past, like at Ostagar. So amongst all that, how many times did he try to speak to the Dalish? How many different clans did he have a go at and give a chance? I also wonder about his interpersonal manner during these contact attempts. He didn't think of them as real people at that point. He doesn't think of people as people at the start of Inquisition too, and if Inquisitor is an a-hole, he has moments where he's wavering (banter), but other than that seem to stick to his original position. So I wouldn't say that there's a possibility that he was a raging asshole during that initial year, but how he was in Inquisition - maybe a bit more aloof, with an air of know-it-all around him. I wouldn't say that it's certain that he reached to the Dalish just during his first year in new Thedas though - he seems to have been reaching to the Dalish for a while through his agens for sure, given that we know Felassan was in touch with them. I'd be surprised if he didn't try to reach through dreams as well. Maybe this is where the whole myth with the Keeper's hound originated from, only it was entirely misinterpreted or misunderstood what the initial thing was about. I've wondered about the origins of some of the more nonsensical myths. I like the idea of dream misunderstandings and can only laugh at the idea of Solas's infinite frustration at making everything worse as he tries to make it better! Well, I have this headcannon that both spirits and ancient elves are capable of telepathy (or some form of silent communication), so I just imagine that Solas quietly told Imshael that he had best keep his mouth shut if he knew what was good for him. I also have a theory that, for spirits and ancient elves (and possibly modern people as well), the physical body is kind of irrelevant when it comes to recognizing or 'seeing' someone. But that is neither here nor there. I'd say that this isn't just a headcanon. We have hints upon hints to think that this is actually what's happening. Heck, I've had that theory for a while now, but the reception of it is... mixed, I've noticed. Anyway - Abelas can tell from a glance who's an ancient elf or not when we meet him, Cole and other spirits can tell all kind of things about people, OGB Kieran totally sees more and so it seems Flemeth. Heck, even Corypheus can do that, and it is pretty clearly apparent in Calpernia's short story (" As if able to see herself through his eyes, she felt like a clear white flame, casting back glaring shadows from everything she passed"), which is the reason why a lowly slave found herself in Corypheus' leading ranks in the first place. Also, the exchange between Felassan and Imshael also suggests that Felassan offered Imshael more than a smile, only we didn't hear the rest of that exchange, because it happened in their heads. Oh, and let's not forget that in case we pick Templars and get infected with Envy, Cole helps us from within our head. Maybe they're all able to see people in a way that modern Thedasians can't... seeing more than what meets the eye. Cole has a conversation where he describes certain companions and tries and fails to do so with the Inquisitor (because they're too bright). Cole's another good example of someone defining themselves with a name. He was Compassion, but he chose to become Cole to try to help a dying boy. Even after remembering who and what he really is (post-Asunder), he still continues to identify himself to others as "Cole" rather than Compassion. I think it's interesting that he keeps the name even by the time Trespasser comes around if he forgot Cole in the main game. I wonder if he'd continue to keep Cole, in memory of his time with the Inquisition, even after he went back into the Fade. |
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Post by ellawyn on Sept 23, 2017 20:07:08 GMT
I'll fight with you, Solas. I only like tea when it's crammed full of sugar and kept cold like any proper beverage should.Honestly hot beverages are just a sin against mankind. Hot drinks were the drinks of the past! I don't remember the time when drinks that were cold weren't really cold and hot kept you warm on bitter winter nights! This generation has no appreciation for tradition! Making tea cold, drinking milk out of plastic bottles, and your spirits out of tin! "Winter," eh? I've heard tales of this "winter," mostly from foreigners hailing from the North lands. Honestly, it sounds like a myth to me. Weather below 40 F? Buildings with no AC? Snow? Pssssh. Such fanciful fairy tales have no hold on us Texans. |
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 23, 2017 20:13:05 GMT
Hmmmm.... why do you assume WE (because protagonist is our proxy) know better than Solas? Is it pride? I'd like to point out that so far Solas is the one who sees the fuller picture, being the one who knows how world and people were before and are now. We have no such perspective (yet). And the one other person we know of who's seen the past also doesn't seem to eager to preserve the status quo, even if Mythal's plans ultimately don't align with Solas in 100%. I sometimes wonder whether DA4 will be the deconstruction of protagonist's self-assuredness in their own actions or moral code, given what we may yet find out... I mean... I certainly chuckled at people eager to destroy Solas only because he undercut our proxy's control over everything. Had even more laugh at those complaining how "Teagan is an asshole!", give that his concerns were perfectly legit and understandable - but of course he's 'wrong' because he ain't nice to our proxy. DA4 may be very interesting in that regard. Welp, my Lavellan is a character unto herself. We share differing views and I get so into an RP that I make decisions based on her thinking, and not my own But yes, I am the Gamer, and I know all!! All must bow before my knowledge and accept my pure understanding of the franchise! More seriously, though I think you're giving Solas a tad too much credit with his ability to see the fuller picture because he's lived in two worlds. He's one of the only characters we've gotten to focus on who's lived in both worlds, but not the only, and every one we've seen has had pretty differing views. And Solas has only lived a few years in modern Thedas after living an assumed many, many years in the Ancient world ruled by elves. Of course his opinions and perceptions are going to be colored. It's natural for someone to prefer what they've known and to think that's the best, but why is Solas a wisdom in this? The Architect and Corypheus might have a preference for pre-Blights unleashed Thedas, but if would the idea of replacing modern Thedas with that world be any form of acceptable? Comparing Solas to Cory and Architect is comparing apples to oranges. Corypheus and Architect, even before the time when Blight twisted them into what they are now, are still part of the world that the actions of Solas fighting Evanuris have formed and they lack the perspective what led to the world be how it is, or how it was even before the fated trip of Magisters Sidereal to Golden City. Heck, they might be Blighted creatures with mastery of the taint, but they're not even sure what it is and where it comes from, nevermind that the thing has warped them in and out. Also - I don't think that I've ever argued that Solas's opinion about world isn't colored by his experience and so on. Still, colored or not, I am fairly certain that he actually does see the fuller picture. He may have not lived in the world physically, but has actively observed it for millenia (including times of lost history after the fall of Elvenhan), and we have no idea how many times he interacted with it, either through dreams or his agents. Then there's the fact that he knows how this world works better than others, on fundamental basis - not just in terms of it being the outcome of his actions, but the relationship of the world to the Fade, which we only recently found out is actually the integral part of the world that is held back by artificial barrier of his own making. Who knows what we'll find out next! Oh, we haven't really seen that many people who have seen both worlds - and the one person that has the closest experience to Solas AND has lived in this world for millenia is also seemingly working towards a grand change in the world and harps about Thedosians being stupid and petty on a fairly regular basis. I'm fairly certain they do. After all, if elves can see more colors and stuff in Crossroads in Trespasser and mages can sense magical energies and describe many of its characteristics, there's just no way of telling how creatures like spirits or ancient elves may see or sense the world or people. Of course... that begs the question of how really Solas sees us? Do we have two heads? A tail? Wings? "I'm a doofus" spelled on a forehead in big, blinking letters? |
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 23, 2017 20:17:35 GMT
Hot drinks were the drinks of the past! I don't remember the time when drinks that were cold weren't really cold and hot kept you warm on bitter winter nights! This generation has no appreciation for tradition! Making tea cold, drinking milk out of plastic bottles, and your spirits out of tin! "Winter," eh? I've heard tales of this "winter," mostly from foreigners hailing from the North lands. Honestly, it sounds like a myth to me. Weather below 40 F? Buildings with no AC? Snow? Pssssh. Such fanciful fairy tales have no hold on us Texans.  ... (*sits here wearing literally 2 sweaters and a blanket and sipping hot tea just for the sake of keeping myself warm. It's only 12 degrees (32 Fahrenheit) and it's not even coldest night in recent memory. And it's only going to get worse, especially hearing weather people predicting severe winter in these parts of Europe, with temperatures potentially falling to -30 (-22 Fahrenheit)...*) |
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 23, 2017 20:27:19 GMT
When you first approach the shrine and stand next to to what looks like a small altar (somewhat behind where we can stick Inquisition flag) there should be an option to leave an offering. I just had a look at the altar myself (even fell into that acidic pool more than once) and I couldn't see any prompt to leave offerings . Although there is one of those elven artifacts that gives slight approval from Solas right at the start of the bridge. Although if it were there I might have missed it because I've got Solas up to max approval anyway. You people make me question my sanity now I'm fairly sure I didn't imagine it, but it may be either something that breaks easily or requires more conditions than just being Dalish. I'll check it once I fix my saves, they're in a bit of shambles now. |
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Sept 23, 2017 21:23:42 GMT
I checked the shrine again myself, and didn't see any way to make an offering. I know the landmark mentions the Dalish leaving offerings, but there isn't any option for the PC to do so. Unless my game is broken as well...
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Sept 23, 2017 21:38:17 GMT
As far as ancient elves and spirits seeing people differently than modern races, I definitely think that's the case. I think they see (or sense?) the 'true self' inside the fleshy cage. Solas is constantly mentioning inquisitor's spirit, especially if romanced ("I see what you truly are"). Abelas can tell what you are, or rather are not, at a glance. I also strongly suspect he could see Solas for what he was. Pretty much everything out of Cole's mouth. Also, Felassan's little monologue at the end of Masked Empire. He reached into his robe and drew forth a packet of herbs. He sat cross-legged, calmed his breathing until he found his true self inside the shell of his flesh, and sprinkled the herbs over the fire. |
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 23, 2017 22:38:25 GMT
As far as ancient elves and spirits seeing people differently than modern races, I definitely think that's the case. I think they see (or sense?) the 'true self' inside the fleshy cage. Since some of the concepts in DA seem a bit 'New Agey' (not in a sense that they believe in it, but draw inspiration... although New Age itself draws inspiration from many magical or mystical traditions, duh) I wouldn't be shocked if it turned out that elves can do something akin to reading auras Oh, I am personally convinced Abelas recognizes Solas right away - maybe not the Dread Wolf part, but ancient elf? Totally. When we enter the chamber as an elf or with Sera in tow, Abelas is all "huh, you are elvhen lookalikes...", but when we enter with Solas (and non-elven quizzy) Abelas goes "hey, there's one of our own among you". Then he asks if there are 'elvhen such as him' when Solas suggests that 'Abelas' people yet linger' there somewhere. If that's not a dead giveaway, I'm not sure what is. As for what the true self is... well, with all the talk about people and their spirits or Solas waxing poetic about the greatness of Quizzy's spirit it's not difficult to start guessing what that may be. |
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Sept 23, 2017 23:36:05 GMT
*snip* Of course... that begs the question of how really Solas sees us? Do we have two heads? A tail? Wings? "I'm a doofus" spelled on a forehead in big, blinking letters? Because I'm a total romantic, I think he actually can see our spirits inside us. So, when he's asking the Inquisitor in the balcony scene if they have noticed any changes in their spirit, he means it literally. Like "Can you tell that you have a spirit inside you? Are you becoming less like a Tranquil than the rest of the people in this world, since getting that direct channel to the Fade implanted in your hand?" And with that one option for a romanced Lavellan, when he says she has a rare and marvelous spirit, he really means she has a rare and marvelous spirit, on a level with the Wisdoms, Faiths, and Compassions at the very least. |
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 24, 2017 16:00:12 GMT
There is a relevant quote from the Evanuris about this when they warn against him.
"Beware the forms of Fen'Harel! The Dread Wolf comes in humble guises, a wanderer who knows much of the People and their spirits. He will offer advice that seems fair, but turns slowly to poison. Remember the price of treason, and keep in your heart the mercy of your gods."
This would suggest that Solas does know about the spirit of a person. Either that or the suggestion is that every elf has a familiar spirit (like some sort of guardian angel that follows them about), the nature of which would also be revealing about them.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 24, 2017 18:22:07 GMT
There is a relevant quote from the Evanuris about this when they warn against him. "Beware the forms of Fen'Harel! The Dread Wolf comes in humble guises, a wanderer who knows much of the People and their spirits. He will offer advice that seems fair, but turns slowly to poison. Remember the price of treason, and keep in your heart the mercy of your gods." This would suggest that Solas does know about the spirit of a person. Either that or the suggestion is that every elf has a familiar spirit (like some sort of guardian angel that follows them about), the nature of which would also be revealing about them. While it's not far-fetched to assume that some spirits may act like guardian angels (Wynne had one, Cole acted like one for original Cole for some time at least, Seekers seem to bond with faith spirits), I think it was meant more as 'inner self'. There are a lot of clues and suggestions across the games that hint at each person having a spirit - even the Chantry believes that each person has a spirit and that it crosses through the Fade after death on its way to the Maker. We also see some dwarven spirits in Deep Roads in DAO, so apparently everybody seems to have one. I also recall particular dialogues between Cass and Cole: Cassandra: What the Templars did to you, to the real Cole... I knew the treatment was harsh, but...
Cole: Yes. Beatings, worse. "Do you remember telling me no? You can't do that now. The Tranquil don't say no to anything."
Cassandra: Maker's breath!
Cole: Not all, but enough. The good templars were too afraid to stop the others.
Cassandra: Whatever happens in the future, there will be changes to how templars and mages govern themselves.
Cassandra: The Inquisition may have a say in such changes. I... would appreciate any insight you might have.
Cole: Compassion and faith. Not all, but a start. I can help. I can try.
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Cole: I was wrong to kill Lambert, wasn't I, Cassandra?
Cassandra: What made you change your mind?
Cole: I can see more. I could have helped the rebel mages. I could have warned someone.
Cole: Things are connected, tied in a tangle. Fixing one thing might break something else.
Cole: How do you do it?
Cassandra: I try, but don't always succeed. You do your best, and have faith it will turn out as it should.
Cole: I was never a spirit of faith, but thank you. I will try to be more like you.
Cassandra: You may regret that notion, but I wish you well.
-----
"Faith seeks a friend in Compassion, cautious, careful, too much grey but growing." I'm aware that Seekers are bonded with spirits of Faith, but every time Cole speaks of faith in such comments he refers specifically to Cassandra. So basically, everybody may be an embodied spirit - to quote a banned poem we hear in Cass' romanced - 'not merely housed in flesh, but brought to life'. And I keep maintaining that it's possible that Inquisitor - like other DA protags - may be Hope. |
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Sept 24, 2017 19:39:14 GMT
*snip* And I keep maintaining that it's possible that Inquisitor - like other DA protags - may be Hope. Or Despair, if you make all the worst choices on purpose. Or a mix... My Inquisitor offered hope to so many, but was despair for Iron Bull, because she thought the Qunari alliance might be strategically important. ;_; |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2017 19:44:46 GMT
*snip* Of course... that begs the question of how really Solas sees us? Do we have two heads? A tail? Wings? "I'm a doofus" spelled on a forehead in big, blinking letters? Because I'm a total romantic, I think he actually can see our spirits inside us. So, when he's asking the Inquisitor in the balcony scene if they have noticed any changes in their spirit, he means it literally. Like "Can you tell that you have a spirit inside you? Are you becoming less like a Tranquil than the rest of the people in this world, since getting that direct channel to the Fade implanted in your hand?" And with that one option for a romanced Lavellan, when he says she has a rare and marvelous spirit, he really means she has a rare and marvelous spirit, on a level with the Wisdoms, Faiths, and Compassions at the very least. This was my feeling, too, as romantic as it sounds. Once Solas is interested in your character, he is willing look deep enough to see what's really there. And once he sees it in you, he's capable of seeing it in everyone - a giant turning point for him, because he can no longer deny that you are all people and are real. My favorite thing about he balcony meeting is that it is where you get to destroy him 100% emotionally, and he's left reeling the rest of the game. He knows, and it just makes everything he has to do a million times worse. |
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Post by morir_a_solas on Sept 25, 2017 4:11:49 GMT
I wonder how far he will go with his plan and if we'll at all be able to stop it or have DA5 on a dystopian thedas
because he seems super convinced to do it and even though the really kind and caring elf we traveled with sounds nothing like the massive dick described on TME, he basically says in trespasser that he wasn't exactly himself when the inquisitor tells him the dalish tales about him are wrong, so it leaves us in the dark about who he really is.
On one hand I kind of hope he lives up to his legend and become an awesome nemesis to the inquisitor and by extension a huge pain in the neck for the new protagonist but on the other hand that might mean he's completely irredeemable.
Argh!!!! I need news before I go insane!!!
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 25, 2017 4:43:22 GMT
Because I'm a total romantic, I think he actually can see our spirits inside us. So, when he's asking the Inquisitor in the balcony scene if they have noticed any changes in their spirit, he means it literally. Like "Can you tell that you have a spirit inside you? Are you becoming less like a Tranquil than the rest of the people in this world, since getting that direct channel to the Fade implanted in your hand?" And with that one option for a romanced Lavellan, when he says she has a rare and marvelous spirit, he really means she has a rare and marvelous spirit, on a level with the Wisdoms, Faiths, and Compassions at the very least. This was my feeling, too, as romantic as it sounds. Once Solas is interested in your character, he is willing look deep enough to see what's really there. And once he sees it in you, he's capable of seeing it in everyone - a giant turning point for him, because he can no longer deny that you are all people and are real. My favorite thing about he balcony meeting is that it is where you get to destroy him 100% emotionally, and he's left reeling the rest of the game. He knows, and it just makes everything he has to do a million times worse. According to people who datamined the game, we only need positive (like, +1) approval for Solas to start recognizing people as people - and even without that he has banters when he seems conflicted about that. So how badly the disliked Inquisitor must've gone under his skin? >D I kinda wonder though - because it's something that hasn't yet clicked with me - when he admits that Inquisitor has shown he was wrong... again he says (tho it looks more like he's talking to himself) that 'that does not make what must come next any easier'. Dunno... uh - why would that knowledge about people's peoplesness make things 'any easier'? I'm not sure it can be deconstructed as 'it'd be millions time worse', it's more like he suggests it the other way around? It's like he's talking about some other plan... Also, the bit about how 'he had plans' when Inquisitor asks if tearing down the Veil would mean that Evanuris will be free.. I have to wonder whether 'he had plans' because of what happened to his first plan with orb and so on, or his plans were thwarted already long ago with, say, release of the Blight? |
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 25, 2017 7:50:02 GMT
It is these rather ambiguous answers and half finished ideas that have me swaying back and forth between sympathising with him and wishing to save him to wanting to beat him to a pulp. Naturally the reason he doesn't say more is "spoilers" but it is infuriating.
I definitely think there have been developments since he fell asleep to recover his strength which have probably rendered his original plan obsolete and by this I mean the one where he imprisoned the Evanuris. I think the Corypheus plan may have resulted from him having to wake up early. Now the destruction of his orb has meant another revision has had to be made.
I think there had to be a specific reason why he woke when he did rather than recover his full strength. I wonder if the reason he woke early was the discovery of red lyrium or more specifically when Bianca revealed its location to Corypheus so he brought far more of the substance to the surface and so it started to become more wide spread. This is only based off the fact that something in the past was sealed away in the depths of the earth by his followers before he went on and imprisoned the Evanuris. Of course the Blight was originally released much earlier but I suppose he was unable to wake then because he was not yet enough recovered to do so.
Of course the other reason could have been the activation of the eluvians, although if that was so urgent why did he wait to recover their control from Briala for another 2 years or more? The same holds true for the section controlled by the Qunari.
I also still wonder what Felassan's mission really was. The fact is he was active in Thedas for at least 20 years before Masked Empire, based off when he first made contact with Briala, and for all we know he was present for even longer than this. If his mission was really just the eluvians, what took him so long? I suppose it could have taken him that long to find a Dalish Keeper willing to go along with his plan (because I am convinced that he was behind Thelhen summoning Imshael even though he may have manipulated him without Thelhen being aware of it) but of course if that was his mission then whilst Solas may have woken a year or two early, it was always intended for him to revive around this time.
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Post by ellawyn on Sept 26, 2017 5:28:22 GMT
I think there had to be a specific reason why he woke when he did rather than recover his full strength. (Cracks open DA2) (Points at Mythal) (Points at her weirdo unexplained desire to be carted all the way over to Sundermount.) (Points at the fact that Sundermount's a spooky Ancient Elven place with lots of old spooky Ancient Elven relics like varterrals, pride demons, ruins, and just all around weirdness and also strange activity from the Wardens.) (Points at the theory that Sundermount is a possible location where Solas has been sleeping in Uthanera (Admittedly only one of many.) and that Mythal not only knows he's around and what he's been up to, but she seems to at least be tolerating his plans and may even be facilitating them.) I think the more pertinent question might be "Why has Mythal waited all this time?" |
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 26, 2017 14:41:19 GMT
Except if Mythal's appointment that she referred to in DA2 was with Solas why didn't she make contact before he gave away his orb? Unless of course that was all part of her plan.
I used to have this theory that she helped Hawke because she knew their blood was necessary to free Corypheus and that was part of her plan too. For all I know, may be it was.
"Why has Mythal waited all this time?" Well, she had to find a host and then as Flemeth says, they have been nudging events along ever since. Not long after Flemeth was born the 3rd Blight began, although she likely had not made contact with Mythal by the time he was destroyed as she would only have been 25 years of age. Then all the trouble kicked off between the Orlesian and Tevinter Chantries, resulting in the latter breaking away. I wonder if Flemeth/Mythal had anything to do with the reappearance of werewolves in Ferelden which occurred a 100 years after her birth. Then 212 years after her birth the 4th Blight begins. Presumably she wasn't able to turn that to he advantage but who knows?
If you go by the comic series concerning the fate of Maric, it would seem she helped him in order to oblige him to assist in waking the dragons who had been in hibernation. However, according to the Arishok, Calenhad originally discovered the secret of drinking the blood of a great dragon from "a witch", so my money is on that being Flemeth as well. In which case it was clearly some sort of long term plan that would come to fruition when certain conditions were met.
Mind you I'd still like to know how the Qunari were aware of this history for Calenhad when they hadn't even arrived in Thedas at that point and didn't do so for another 90 years. So presumably someone must have told them. Any guesses as to who that might have been? |
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 26, 2017 14:54:29 GMT
I think there had to be a specific reason why he woke when he did rather than recover his full strength. (Cracks open DA2) (Points at Mythal) (Points at her weirdo unexplained desire to be carted all the way over to Sundermount.) (Points at the fact that Sundermount's a spooky Ancient Elven place with lots of old spooky Ancient Elven relics like varterrals, pride demons, ruins, and just all around weirdness and also strange activity from the Wardens.) (Points at the theory that Sundermount is a possible location where Solas has been sleeping in Uthanera (Admittedly only one of many.) and that Mythal not only knows he's around and what he's been up to, but she seems to at least be tolerating his plans and may even be facilitating them.) I think the more pertinent question might be "Why has Mythal waited all this time?" The name is suggestive as well. SUNDERmount? Like sundering world from Fade? It's not impossible that Sundermount is where Solas sleeps, though it may also be just near it. (Some may ask "well then what about Skyhold?" that was suggested to be a place where Veil was lifted. I'd say that it's very possible that the Veil was lifted in many places across the continent at once.) As for why she waited... there might be 50 reasons why. Maybe because waking him up earlier wouldn't gel with her plans. It's also possible that the year before Inquisition was a time where she finally could wake him up - he may have been too weak before that. Other question that comes to mind is why Solas seems so surprised then at Mythal enduring once we reach her temple? Unless he was always aware of presence of some piece of her (his stories do suggest that he visited Korcari wilds and saw her hut), but wasn't aware that so much of her/her power has lasted. |
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Post by uirebhiril on Sept 26, 2017 17:25:28 GMT
Except if Mythal's appointment that she referred to in DA2 was with Solas why didn't she make contact before he gave away his orb? Unless of course that was all part of her plan.
I used to have this theory that she helped Hawke because she knew their blood was necessary to free Corypheus and that was part of her plan too. For all I know, may be it was. Now there's an interesting thought. If Mythal helped Hawke because she wanted Corypheus awakened, did she then figure Solas would be involved later? Did she nudge it that way too, to have the whole mess with the orb? Seems a bit of a chaotic outcome for her to have had a hand in, but just starting with the idea that Mythal needed or wanted Corypheus awake for some reason is a lot to ponder over. |
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. Although there is one of those elven artifacts that gives slight approval from Solas right at the start of the bridge. Although if it were there I might have missed it because I've got Solas up to max approval anyway.
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