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Post by ladyiolanthe on Dec 8, 2018 16:54:04 GMT
^ Fair, but other people who buy into the Chantry propaganda might not like having spirits and demons wandering around freely.
I think the Veil-less world would be my choice too, because right when it happens there probably will be chaos, lots of people dying, committing suicide because they've been raised to hate and fear mages all their lives and now suddenly they are what they hate, spirits, demons and mortals that are all confused, disoriented, and acting on a fight-or-flight instinct. Longer term, people will continue to die in encounters with demons. But they'd retain their freedom of thought and will, which I don't think they'd do in a long-run Blighted world where everyone becomes Darkspawn. The Architect's plan to meld people and Darkspawn has never sat very well with me, because... becoming tainted generally means no more kids. And if the Darkspawn could procreate without kidnapping women and turning them into broodmothers, why haven't they done so already? I think the Architect's plan is doomed to end up in mutual destruction because the Darkspawn need non-tainted beings to continue the line, and those wouldn't exist anymore.
Over the course of DAI, we see that more and more of the world is becoming tainted, what with red lyrium being seeded all over the place. I'm pretty sure that route results in a completely dead world eventually. But other players might be willing to take their chances on killing those last two Archdemons and the legend that that will end the Blights forever.
Removing the Veil would be like major surgery that has serious risks up to and including death on the operating table, but if successful, saves the patient. Going with a Blighted world might not have a massively devastating impact on life all at once, but it's not treating the disease, either. It's putting your hopes in an experimental cure that might or might not save you.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 8, 2018 17:10:28 GMT
I honestly can't see Solas relying on red lyrium/the Blight to accomplish what he plans to accomplish. That stuff has him shook in DAI. I agree that based on how Solas reacted to and what he said about the Blight (especially 'the Blight is not something one smugly outsmarts') doesn't position him as someone who'd just then... use the Blight. But the truth of a matter is that we don't even know what the Blight is and what's its relation to everything else. So the answer to the question of whether Solas would use the Blight may be... complicated. I don't personally think that he would. But IF it turns out that what he actually fights IS the Blight - maybe it requires to do things that will ultimately expose him to its corruption. Everyone has a spirit. Everyone. You yourself note that the question about mind, morals, and... spirit is one he asks every Inquisitor regardless of race. Andrastians believe that everybody houses a spirit too. We also literally see dwarven spirits in Deep Roads in DAO. Also - at some point in banter Cole directly calls Cassandra 'Faith' (Solas also asks - is Cass defined by her cheekbones and not her faith?). Was that also why the Veil was lifted? Or was it a desperate act to try and save the world? I don't think it's the Pride demon that drives Solas - I think it's something that he perceives as a duty or responsibility and that responsibility is simply bigger than any individual, his love for Lavellan or his own integrity. But to do so requires detachment from his feelings and this is where both his potential downfall and his similarities to hardened Leliana start - and pride doesn't drive Leiana as much as loss of faith in not stooping to the level of methods employed by Corypheus or Venatori in a fight for survival. What was it that Solas said about Leliana on the balcony with human Inky? Ah, right: "Leliana has a brilliant mind, but her faith was damaged. For her, it is all a game of tactics now". PROJECTION MUCH, SOLAS? Solas is as complex as any other non-spirit humanoid entities and I think his issue lies more on side of erosion of trust, hope, faith, especially in others (and his own feelings on the matter!) rather than an excess of pride. I'm not sure I buy this idea. Like, he may still summon all the elves to accomplish something with that (whether it's really him remains uncertain), but I think he abstained from blood magic all this time for specific reasons that have something to do with achieving his goals later on. I think he mostly doesn't want Lavellan to see the disappearance underneath the mask of Fen'Harel and thus the destruction of who he was as a person - as he stoops below his moral standards and ignores his feelings and how it ultimately breaks him.
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Post by ellawyn on Dec 8, 2018 17:14:26 GMT
Man, the Archdemon thing is... so bizarre to me. Rather, what's bizarre to me are the people insist it won't result in a never-ending Blight. Or people who are just now thinking that it will.
Wasn't that basically confirmed, waaaaaay back in Awakening? And the Mother talked about how the Architect gave her sentience, but then she couldn't hear the song, and that drove her crazy? And if there are no Archdemons to sing, then there's no song to be heard, and some Darkspawn might take that well, whereas others...
It just weirds me out that this isn't basically confirmed. Are we all playing the same game series? Was Awakening just some strange non-canonical fever dream I had??? These questions and more will be answered next time... on DA4.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Dec 8, 2018 17:19:47 GMT
Was that also why the Veil was lifted? Or was it a desperate act to try and save the world? I don't think it's the Pride demon that drives Solas - I think it's something that he perceives as a duty or responsibility and that responsibility is simply bigger than any individual, his love for Lavellan or his own integrity. But to do so requires detachment from his feelings and this is where both his potential downfall and his similarities to hardened Leliana start - and pride doesn't drive Leiana as much as loss of faith in not stooping to the level of methods employed by Corypheus or Venatori in a fight for survival. What was it that Solas said about Leliana on the balcony with human Inky? Ah, right: "Leliana has a brilliant mind, but her faith was damaged. For her, it is all a game of tactics now". PROJECTION MUCH, SOLAS? Solas is as complex as any other non-spirit humanoid entities and I think his issue lies more on side of erosion of trust, hope, faith, especially in others (and his own feelings on the matter!) rather than an excess of pride. I think we're in agreement here, just expressing it different ways. The Dread Wolf is part of Solas, and it's the part that lets him carry out his perceived duty even when other parts of him shy away from what he feels he has to do. They're not separate beings. It's like a law enforcement officer putting on a game face while they're on duty so that they can handle the situations they find themselves in. At home they are a completely different person.
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Post by lilyenachaos on Dec 8, 2018 18:49:42 GMT
So...what are the chances that there will be a 'save' or 'happy' ending for Solas? He's one of my favorite characters, was friends with all of my Inky's (and romanced all of my elves) and I'm just wondering now how many boxes of tissues I should have on hand for the ending. Should maybe start stocking up now.
It drives me nuts when people look at Solas and see nothing but a 'stupid' villain. He's so much more complicated than that. We don't really know the reasons behind what he did by putting up the veil, or why he wants to tear it down now, just that he feels he had/has to. Guesswork aside, I am really excited to find out the actual story of why all of this happened.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2018 19:14:28 GMT
So...what are the chances that there will be a 'save' or 'happy' ending for Solas? He's one of my favorite characters, was friends with all of my Inky's (and romanced all of my elves) and I'm just wondering now how many boxes of tissues I should have on hand for the ending. Should maybe start stocking up now. It drives me nuts when people look at Solas and see nothing but a 'stupid' villain. He's so much more complicated than that. We don't really know the reasons behind what he did by putting up the veil, or why he wants to tear it down now, just that he feels he had/has to. Guesswork aside, I am really excited to find out the actual story of why all of this happened. I think even with a "Solas Lives & is Redeemed" ending it's still going to be bittersweet. Even with the most ostensibly happy endings in all three games, there's a shadow looming over. Which is why I couldn't be too angry about Solas leaving - he was still alive, and there was more story to be told. The thing that gets me, though, is the waiting.
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Post by bioticeye on Dec 8, 2018 22:06:25 GMT
Hi, blanketfort! I used to come here often on the old BSN. (My account used to be drosophila if anyone remembers.)
Anyhow, I saw the teaser earlier today and thought of this place and wondered if people were excited and discussing things still, and it's nice to see they are!
So is it me or did Solas' voice seem different? Does anyone know if it's the same VA? Maybe the years have changed him. Or maybe it's somebody else mocking Solas' phrase? I was just really surprised when I heard it, it wasn't at all like what I expected.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Dec 8, 2018 22:08:42 GMT
Hi, blanketfort! I used to come here often on the old BSN. (My account used to be drosophila if anyone remembers.) Anyhow, I saw the teaser earlier today and thought of this place and wondered if people were excited and discussing things still, and it's nice to see they are! So is it me or did Solas' voice seem different? Does anyone know if it's the same VA? Maybe the years have changed him. Or maybe it's somebody else mocking Solas' phrase? I was just really surprised when I heard it, it wasn't at all like what I expected. It's Gareth David-Lloyd, yes - same voice actor. He's purposefully making Solas sound tired/injured/stressed in some other way for the teaser. Also, welcome back, Drosophila.
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Post by bioticeye on Dec 8, 2018 22:16:15 GMT
Thanks! Both for the answer and the welcome!
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Post by NightSymphony on Dec 8, 2018 22:54:07 GMT
It's been a while since I posted art... Anticlimatic Truths by LiliumSnow MHW Solas by nipuni entanglement by nipuni Welcome back by nipuni elvhen academics by nipuni Nerin and Solas by nipuni Avira and Solas by nipuni Fenharel ma ghilana by nipuni fen_harel_ma_ghilana_by_skawly Dread Wolf Falls by LinnSo
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Post by wildenight on Dec 8, 2018 23:29:40 GMT
That last one is my favorite, just because it's funny and true.
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Post by Kymira on Dec 9, 2018 0:05:08 GMT
That last one is my favorite, just because it's funny and true. Yeah I laughed at that one pretty hard. The paw prints on the feet haha.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Dec 9, 2018 1:12:14 GMT
I do want a hug option at some point this game. And I also want his boots to have paw prints on the bottom now. But that's something modders can add, so...
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 9, 2018 1:42:54 GMT
Okay, here's a little theory. I recall (vaguely, a LOT of speculation happened since the announcement) some people theorizing that the pattern on Solas's robes is significant, in it that they closely resemble those little reddish elements surrounding the 'sun' at the center of the mural. I have to admit, that through all this time, I identified those little reddish figures as... spirits. A lot of them, including those well-defined and fairly strong, are reddish (red is not just a color of the Blight ), glowing and basically a hovering torso with a head and barely defined upper arms. So... what if this isn't really supposed to be a pattern (it isn't even distributed evenly on the robes)? What if those are supposed to be spirits and they are contained within Solas? After all, he does have this curious banter with spirit!Cole closer to the end of the game: Cole: You don't need to envy me, Solas. You can find happiness in your own way. Solas: I apologize for disturbing you, Cole. I am not a spirit, and sometimes it is hard to remember such simple truths. Cole: They are not gone so long as you remember them. Solas: I know. Cole: But you could let them go. Solas: I know that as well. Cole: You didn't do it to be right. You did it to save them. Inquisitor: Solas, what is Cole talking about? Solas: A mistake. One of many made by a much younger elf who was certain he knew everything. Cole: You weren't wrong, though. Solas: Thank you, Cole. Given that it's theorized that the image from the announcement is supposed to have a double meaning - and I tentatively agree - one can interpret this in two ways: 1. Solas is boosted by the power of spirits he harvested 2. Solas contains these spirits to protect them from surrounding mayhem
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Post by bioticeye on Dec 9, 2018 2:39:22 GMT
If either of the interpretations is right, Midnight, then those spirits are in serious danger of being corrupted. Very sad but not surprising.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 9, 2018 2:46:02 GMT
If either of the interpretations is right, Midnight, then those spirits are in serious danger of being corrupted. Very sad but not surprising. Well, Solas does seem to play a very high-risk game... Alternatively, 'every other alternative was worse' or the like.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Dec 9, 2018 2:50:57 GMT
Could also be the souls of the elves he's called to him if he's sincerely contemplating going the blood magic road to power. I'd say the duality in that image works against that idea, but then again, nothing says the elven version of him is the better one in the image. Maybe they're both undesirable scenarios of him.
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Post by wildenight on Dec 9, 2018 4:25:57 GMT
On a fun note, I paid for a commission or two (for a good cause because she's trying to move and I'm a sucker for artistic gamer girls who want to chase cross-country dreams.) Behold, my Mythanna Lavellan and a character I once LARPed in my younger years. The artist is destinyapostasy.tumblr.com
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Post by Sifr on Dec 9, 2018 9:53:51 GMT
Given that it's theorized that the image from the announcement is supposed to have a double meaning - and I tentatively agree - one can interpret this in two ways: 1. Solas is boosted by the power of spirits he harvested2. Solas contains these spirits to protect them from surrounding mayhem To add to this, maybe that's why he's so uncharacteristically pissed off if the Inquisitor drank from the Well.
Having absorbed the knowledge/essence/spirits of the countless Elven Sentinels that gave themselves to the Well, the Inquisitor potentially now has access to both knowledge and power that could be used to stop him, if only the Inquisitor could learn how to tap into it. We saw in Trespasser that drinking from the Well gave the Inquisitor some insight on how to bypass the Sentinels.
Maybe the Inquisitor will have to seek out Morrigan? Either because she may have information (if she drank from it) or because they need her to teach them how to access the knowledge (if they drank from it). That would be a nice way to tie the Inquisitor, Morrigan and the Well back into the plot of future games.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Dec 9, 2018 13:54:10 GMT
Ugh. I really don't want to have to rely on Morrigan to get things done again.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Dec 9, 2018 14:58:05 GMT
midnight tea there's also this, from World of Thedas Vol. 1, p. 143 (on Elven interpretation of the Fade): "The elves believe their gods remain trapped in the prison to this day, as Fen'Harel, the Dread Wolf, gleefully patrols the Beyond to feast upon the souls of the dead."I'm not suggesting we interpret it literally but legends often have a grain of truth. He might not have been gleefully feasting on the dead, (I really can't see him doing that) but he may have taken in some souls to keep them safe. This may later have been twisted to the idea that he eats them, when he started being viewed as an evil god.
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Post by ellawyn on Dec 9, 2018 15:04:30 GMT
Given that it's theorized that the image from the announcement is supposed to have a double meaning - and I tentatively agree - one can interpret this in two ways: 1. Solas is boosted by the power of spirits he harvested2. Solas contains these spirits to protect them from surrounding mayhem To add to this, maybe that's why he's so uncharacteristically pissed off if the Inquisitor drank from the Well.
Having absorbed the knowledge/essence/spirits of the countless Elven Sentinels that gave themselves to the Well, the Inquisitor potentially now has access to both knowledge and power that could be used to stop him, if only the Inquisitor could learn how to tap into it. We saw in Trespasser that drinking from the Well gave the Inquisitor some insight on how to bypass the Sentinels.
Maybe the Inquisitor will have to seek out Morrigan? Either because she may have information (if she drank from it) or because they need her to teach them how to access the knowledge (if they drank from it). That would be a nice way to tie the Inquisitor, Morrigan and the Well back into the plot of future games.
Eh, I'm sure his fear of the Well's knowledge is part of it, but if you talk to a low-approval Solas after taking the Well, he essentially goes "Lmao you dun fucked yourself now. Hoo boy. Oh sweet dragon jesus. I look forward to watching this bite you in the ass." After all, if it were merely about power, I don't think he'd refuse to take the Well so... passionately. And if his comment about it making them Mythal's slave is true (Which we know it at least sort of is) then Solas' warnings are very much in line with his actual values.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 9, 2018 15:22:41 GMT
midnight tea there's also this, from World of Thedas Vol. 1, p. 143 (on Elven interpretation of the Fade): "The elves believe their gods remain trapped in the prison to this day, as Fen'Harel, the Dread Wolf, gleefully patrols the Beyond to feast upon the souls of the dead."I'm not suggesting we interpret it literally but legends often have a grain of truth. He might not have been gleefully feasting on the dead, (I really can't see him doing that) but he may have taken in some souls to keep them safe. This may later have been twisted to the idea that he eats them, when he started being viewed as an evil god. Yea, Solas is all about preserving what's left of the past - probably spirits too, given that they are part of the Fade and thus built from memory - so 'feasting' (intentional misinterpretation?) or collecting things around the Fade for safekeeping would be in line with what we know about his actual character. It's also probably one of the reasons why he's decided that HE'S the one to... well, do whatever he needs to do - or why the People specifically need him (outside of him being the creator of the Veil). I also wouldn't be surprised if the Orb was part of his efforts. We actually know that this artifact wasn't just a repository or power, but knowledge since Corypheus managed to tap some of it. The Fade IS built of memory after all, so in Thedas knowledge equals power.
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Post by Elessara on Dec 9, 2018 16:17:55 GMT
Ugh. I really don't want to have to rely on Morrigan to get things done again. Same here really. Although to be fair, I liked her a great deal more in Inquisition than Origins. She was less of a condescending know-it-all bitch. I mean, yeah she was still kind of arrogant but she does have a great deal of knowledge (Solas is like that too) but in Origins she really lacked compassion. If she's Flemeth's "heir" then we'll likely have to deal with her on some level, especially if the Well is going to be of any importance (and she's the one who drank from it). And now for some reason I'm reminded of a conversation I had with a friend of mine. He was bashing on Alistair and cooing over Morrigan and I said that he only liked Morrigan because he could almost see her tits. My friend simply said, "Yes." I don't even think he was joking. *rolls eyes*
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 9, 2018 16:27:22 GMT
Ugh. I really don't want to have to rely on Morrigan to get things done again. Same here really. Although to be fair, I liked her a great deal more in Inquisition than Origins. She was less of a condescending know-it-all bitch. I mean, yeah she was still kind of arrogant but she does have a great deal of knowledge (Solas is like that too) but in Origins she really lacked compassion. If she's Flemeth's "heir" then we'll likely have to deal with her on some level, especially if the Well is going to be of any importance (and she's the one who drank from it). And now for some reason I'm reminded of a conversation I had with a friend of mine. He was bashing on Alistair and cooing over Morrigan and I said that he only liked Morrigan because he could almost see her tits. My friend simply said, "Yes." I don't even think he was joking. *rolls eyes* Oh, I have a feeling we are going to see Morrigan again. One of the most interesting things about her was her relationship with Flemeth, and whether directly or indirectly, I think we're going to see her too. Flemythal was always very, VERY adamant that Morrigan is how she is because she raised her that way (I have to wonder if she had a hand in raising certain someone too, given some similarities and how Morrigan and certain someone played on each other's nerves xD). She underlines it in every Dragon Age to date. She must've had a reason to do that - something tells me it has something to do with Morrigan's personal growth over the series.
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