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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Dec 14, 2018 2:18:32 GMT
Is it possible the Forgotten Ones were dwarves? I know their names (the ones we have) sound elven, but then so does Cad’halash, before it got shortened to Cadash. And honestly, I've always thought phrases like "Atrast vala" sounded vaguely elven. It's possible, but we have a testimony against that due to finding Geldauran's prison in Jaws of Hakkon. Geldauran is one of the few named Forgotten Ones, along with Daern'thal, and Anaris (anaris is an elven word along with being a name it seems). All signs point to him having a vendetta against the Evanuris, and having been an ancient elf.
I think it would make more sense for the Forgotten Ones to be the Titans, as they have literally been forgotten by everyone except Valta, and perhaps the few people old enough to remember them like Solas.
I've seen the Geldauran codex entry. But I don't see anything in there that actually states he's an elf. Am I forgetting some other context? If its cus its in elven script, I'm saying that I don't think that's necessarily an indicator of the writer being an elf. (I also edited my original post, sorry. lol) On the "Dwarven languages and phrases" page that, per Gaider in an old forum post, "The dwarves spoke several languages but in present day they are no longer spoken." And "Some of the words have roots which predate the time when dwarves made contact with elves or humans." which, by logic, means that some word roots are also from both elven and human languages. A dwarf writing in elven about the current elven rulers, whom he doesn't wish to bow before, is plausible to me.
The main problem I see with the Titans being the forgotten ones is they are giant sentient mountains. If those are gonna write anything, you'd think it'd be on their scale. Especially when they seem to be writing to themselves, as Gaulduran's message seems to be. Like an angry rant on a wall in a prison cell. In fact, being held in a prison would be impossible for a Titan as far as we've seen. Its possible that they make avatars or can possess dwarves or something, but so far the smallest manifestation of a Titan we've seen is a rock wraith, and I'm not even sure that counts.
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Post by ellawyn on Dec 14, 2018 2:26:31 GMT
why I always skip talking about that part when I talk about this stuff and say sth like ''but other people wrote about/theorized this elsewhere''. that part of the equation gives me a mental block and a maddeningly frustrating feeling that we're still missing too many essential pieces of the puzzle so far to know. i just dk Man do I know that feel. Curse you, DA lore! Why must you be so seductively twisted and impenetrable! Is it possible the Forgotten Ones were dwarves? I know their names (the ones we have) sound elven, but then so does Cad’halash, before it got shortened to Cadash. And honestly, I've always thought phrases like "Atrast vala" sounded vaguely elven.We know there was interaction back in the day. And if the elves "freed" (or severed? not sure how to look at it) the dwarves from the Titan hivemind thing they seem to have had going on, it'd make sense a lot of elven culture was adopted by the newborn dwarven civilization. Which would also explain things like evanuris statues in the deep roads. Not only did it mean some elves lived there (going all elder scrolls with some "dwarves" being elves >_>), but maybe it was just that dwarves became a subservient part of the empire, too, once the Titan's connection to them was severed. Hmmmmm. Maybe. I've seen the theory that the Forgotten Ones are actually the Titans, but I don't buy that for several reasons (Edit: and between me starting this rant and posting it, a Forgotten Ones = Titans theory went and got posted. Sorry didn't mean to do a callout! Your theories are fine and good and valid!) - the Titans don't seem like they'd buddy up to Solas (Especially if he killed one) when we know that the Forgotten Ones at least accepted Fen'harel enough to see him as one of their own (Even if stories like Felassan's suggest tension between them.). The Titans don't seem to possess sentience as we understand it - they seem like a sort of gestalt consciousness built from every mind in their "hive," and as such, I wonder if they have true personality or individuality themselves. And lastly, it still leaves the (creatures we know as) Old Gods out in the cold, as far as fitting them in with the rest of the lore. Another theory I've seen is that the Old Gods aren't just distractions diverting the Blight's attention, they're seals that are actively holding it back. Which... makes sense, especially if we take up the theory that the entites which reached out to the Magisters were trapped Evanuris. Say the Old Gods are the Forgotten Ones, all fulfilling a task similar to Ameridian, when he held back Hakkon - except they're holding back the Veil, or the Evanuris, or something. Hmm. And then the Evanuris reach out to the Magisters, bidding them to breach the Fade in the hope that they'll escape. And they can't, not entirely, but their Blight can. And now, with that little piece of influence in the world, they're directing it to the Old Gods/Forgotten Ones, hoping to destroy them, thus eliminating the last of the seals on - themselves, I guess? Which is why the Darkspawn are so attracted to the Old Gods, even though all they do is Blight them into Archdemons. When the last Archdemon falls, it won't only free up the attention of a lot of Darkspawn, it'll crack the dam on whatever the Old Gods are holding back. And that's why Solas really, really does not want them to die. ...But that still isn't making sense. If Solas is terrified of killing the Old Gods because it'll get rid of the Veil, why does he want to do just that? Hmmmm... you know, the Redcliffe future didn't have a lot of ancient genocidal gods running around. Maybe because it wasn't down in it's entirety, or maybe because the prison on the Evanuris is a two-step system. The Veil and the Old Gods. It would explain why they couldn't get out when the Magisters entered the Golden City, why they weren't around in the Redcliffe future, it would even explain Solas' "I had plans" comment. We make a lot of fuss over the "had" in that statement, like it's a problem he recognizes but no longer intends to do anything about. But maybe he means "I had plans that account for the Veil failing, and I put them into motion, and they'll keep the Evanuris in their place if you silly mortals stop slaughtering my ancient dragon friends." It still leaves Cole's whole "Masked in a mirror" comment hanging out, though. Maybe tearing down the Veil is just step one of Solas' plan. Maybe he wants to tear down the Veil, and then... cure the Evanuris of their taint, somehow, before releasing them? Mythal supposedly did it to Andruil. And if he intends to cleanse them by somehow taking the Blight into himself, it'd explain his whole din'anshiral thing, why he seems so certain this will inevitably result in his death. Hrrrmmm....
...Sorry I just completely hijacked this and went on a tangent. It's also possible that this is why Solas is sometimes counted as one of the Forgotten Ones - he has been sentenced to be one. Only he didn't let them do that to him. I also should add that forgetting, in general, appears to be an awful thing for beings close to magic - which is not that surprising, considering Fade's close association with memory. It's also probably why Solas's greatest fear is to die alone - in other words, forgotten. Ooooh. This theory. This I like. |
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Dec 14, 2018 2:28:48 GMT
I suspect we won't have to wait much longer to find out more about the Titans, whatever they truly are: We are here We have waited We have slept We are sundered We are crippled We are polluted We endure We wait We have found the dreams again We will awaken dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Note:_Whispers_Written_in_Red_Lyrium |
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Post by ellawyn on Dec 14, 2018 2:35:55 GMT
I suspect we won't have to wait much longer to find out more about the Titans, whatever they truly are: We are here We have waited We have slept We are sundered We are crippled We are polluted We endure We wait We have found the dreams againWe will awaken dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Note:_Whispers_Written_in_Red_LyriumBecause! Because!!!! The Evanuris are the dreams! And the Titans found them, and Blighted them, and the dead Titans and the Blighted Evanuris are working in tandem to kill the Old Gods and fuck everything over maybe! I guess!
Man I am sleuthing this shit so hard. The lore is afoot! *Tries to twist tinfoil hat into a Sherlock Holmes cap.*
edit: OOH OHH OH MAN what if the Evanuris aren't in charge at all? I figured, if the above theory is true, then the Evanuris are the ones directing the Blight. But maybe it's the dead Titans! The Evanuris killed them and took their power to become gods, but the Titans didn't truly die, they made the Blight. Said Blight really wants the Titans' power back, so it can make them whole and "awaken" them again. But the power is with the Evanuris, who are now trapped behind the Veil. So the Blight infects them, but can't get them to the physical world where the dead Titans are. So they're making the Evanuris crazy and desperate to get out, so the Evanuris hit up the Magisters, and that lets out the Blight, and the Blight tries to kill the Old Gods to release the Evanuris, so that the Titans can finally retake their power and reawaken! Where is that crazy wall pic when you need it!?
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Post by Solas on Dec 14, 2018 8:11:53 GMT
iirc an in universe codex writer in the enigma of kirkwall quest in da2 posits a connection forgotten ones and forbidden ones
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Dec 14, 2018 8:19:31 GMT
Was it ever explained why a crazy blood magic "lets make a hellmouth" attempt was made in Kirkwall? I mean, I got that the architecture was lending itself to all the bloodletting in the city literally being funneled to one spot for presumably magical purposes. And the slaves' suffering was thinning the veil. But I don't recall ever seeing a theory posited in-game on the "why" of it all.
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Post by Sifr on Dec 14, 2018 14:02:23 GMT
Was it ever explained why a crazy blood magic "lets make a hellmouth" attempt was made in Kirkwall? I mean, I got that the architecture was lending itself to all the bloodletting in the city literally being funneled to one spot for presumably magical purposes. And the slaves' suffering was thinning the veil. But I don't recall ever seeing a theory posited in-game on the "why" of it all. To quote Hawke;
"Summoned a horror... of course I did, why wouldn't I do that?"
If a magical ritual sounds like a bad idea, then you can bet your sovereigns that Tevinter will not only want to do it, but will do so with absolutely zero safety precautions in place for when things go catastrophically wrong. Then afterwards, they'll act like no-one could have predicted it would have happened whatosever.
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Post by ellawyn on Dec 14, 2018 14:04:59 GMT
Was it ever explained why a crazy blood magic "lets make a hellmouth" attempt was made in Kirkwall? I mean, I got that the architecture was lending itself to all the bloodletting in the city literally being funneled to one spot for presumably magical purposes. And the slaves' suffering was thinning the veil. But I don't recall ever seeing a theory posited in-game on the "why" of it all. idk if it's supported in-game anywhere, but I've heard the theory that Kirkwall is where the Magisters breached the Veil. |
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Post by Sifr on Dec 14, 2018 14:57:12 GMT
I'm not entirely sure why some people are treating this relatively minor mess up by a minor agent as some sort of major f*** up by Solas? Yeah, this seems confusing why people would think this would be his fault? From what we've seen, only the plans that have required his agents to act with some measure of autonomy (like Felassan and this Elven Agent) or relied on outside individuals to accomplish (like Corypheus) have ended up going off the rails. Every other plan that Solas has been involved with and/or overseen personally, typically seem to go off without any hitches whatsoever.
That's not to say that Solas is some genius mastermind who's incapable of screwing up, but he does seem far better at quickly being able to adapt to any complications that arise, so he can get things back on track and accomplish his goals via some other means. His agents however, don't seem to be nearly as good at improvising or thinking on their feet.
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Post by Amburu on Dec 14, 2018 15:08:38 GMT
HELLO I rise from the dead i'm extremely busy and exhausted at all times but i'm still very much a part of the fandom at heart and i managed to make an artwork to contribute to the hype so I figured i'd drop it here !! I have no time at all to catch up on this thread i'm sorry T~T I still love you  – So... You found me at last |
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Dec 14, 2018 15:16:50 GMT
HELLO I rise from the dead i'm extremely busy and exhausted at all times but i'm still very much a part of the fandom at heart and i managed to make an artwork to contribute to the hype so I figured i'd drop it here !! I have no time at all to catch up on this thread i'm sorry T~T I still love you – So... You found me at last This is amazing! Nice work!  |
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Post by Amburu on Dec 14, 2018 16:32:16 GMT
thanks  crying there are so many different solas/teaser/da4 threads now did i even post to the right place 😭 |
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Post by Solas on Dec 14, 2018 18:59:36 GMT
thanks crying there are so many different solas/teaser/da4 threads now did i even post to the right place 😭 ofc ofc ofc  |
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Post by Julilla on Dec 14, 2018 20:43:58 GMT
HELLO I rise from the dead i'm extremely busy and exhausted at all times but i'm still very much a part of the fandom at heart and i managed to make an artwork to contribute to the hype so I figured i'd drop it here !! I have no time at all to catch up on this thread i'm sorry T~T I still love you – So... You found me at last So much feels! And very well done! Welcome back! |
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Dec 14, 2018 21:05:03 GMT
Was it ever explained why a crazy blood magic "lets make a hellmouth" attempt was made in Kirkwall? I mean, I got that the architecture was lending itself to all the bloodletting in the city literally being funneled to one spot for presumably magical purposes. And the slaves' suffering was thinning the veil. But I don't recall ever seeing a theory posited in-game on the "why" of it all. idk if it's supported in-game anywhere, but I've heard the theory that Kirkwall is where the Magisters breached the Veil. That's my running theory, too. I was just wondering if it actually said so anywhere and I missed it. Also the Keep's World Lore section had me questioning the timing of everything, but the wiki cleared it up. lol
HELLO I rise from the dead i'm extremely busy and exhausted at all times but i'm still very much a part of the fandom at heart and i managed to make an artwork to contribute to the hype so I figured i'd drop it here !! I have no time at all to catch up on this thread i'm sorry T~T I still love you – So... You found me at last Great piece.  I see Cass, Cole, and Lavellan. Who is the one bending for the arrow? |
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Post by Amburu on Dec 14, 2018 22:17:01 GMT
Great piece. I see Cass, Cole, and Lavellan. Who is the one bending for the arrow? Ha actually I only put cole and lavellan, everyone else is supposed to reflect the "people he doesn't know", the future followers from the next game and maybe the future protagonist !! I left it vague on purpose but i wanted to imply there were PEOPLE gathered to face the big threat, did solas try something to stop his plan but it was too late ?? It's too much for him to do but everyone will help stopping the raging chaos, starting with Cole who's already in attac mode, protecting their reunion AND the "spectator" and he transcends the borders of the panels ! I really liked this idea i had to sketch it a few different ways to make it work as well as possible ! Sorry i rambled by accident |
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Post by Ajna on Dec 15, 2018 19:51:15 GMT
I'm currently re-installing DA:I but I'm buggered if I can find a mod manager. I need my hairs back at least! The one I was using way back has been abandoned.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Dec 15, 2018 20:52:28 GMT
I'm still using DAI Mod Manager, and it works just fine. |
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 15, 2018 20:57:44 GMT
I'm still using DAI Mod Manager, and it works just fine.  Last time I checked mine it worked as well. |
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Post by NightSymphony on Dec 16, 2018 1:28:57 GMT
Alright..time for more art.. DAI: The Dread Wolf Rises by LadyTheirin Ma Vhenan by Insec-Sess What Pride Had Wrought by verdantelf The Dread Wolf (#TheDreadWolfRises) | Dragon Age by Olessan Solas[vhenan by IRaiven |
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Post by Solas on Dec 16, 2018 1:57:26 GMT
on my feed jn - bwahaha  from edude-makes-comics on tumblr |
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Post by ellawyn on Dec 16, 2018 2:51:23 GMT
on my feed jn - bwahaha from edude-makes-comics on tumblr You know, I've always wondered about his comments on Qunari to an Adaar Inquisitor. They directly contradict what he says to Bull in banter, and I've always wondered... like, what does Solas actually believe about it? To Bull, he seems to think there's nothing different about Qunari as a race, but the social system of the Qun drives them to extremes. And then to Adaar, he seems to have the... interesting opinion that Qunari are just naturally prone to violence.
I guess they're not necessarily mutually exclusive, and Solas was just startingly tone-deaf and spectacularly poor at expressing his opinion to Addar. Or, of course he could just be racist against Qunari, on top of his general prejudice against modern people, but the Bull banter would seem to dispute that. Hmph.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 16, 2018 3:33:46 GMT
on my feed jn - bwahaha from edude-makes-comics on tumblr You know, I've always wondered about his comments on Qunari to an Adaar Inquisitor. They directly contradict what he says to Bull in banter, and I've always wondered... like, what does Solas actually believe about it? To Bull, he seems to think there's nothing different about Qunari as a race, but the social system of the Qun drives them to extremes. And then to Adaar, he seems to have the... interesting opinion that Qunari are just naturally prone to violence.
I guess they're not necessarily mutually exclusive, and Solas was just startingly tone-deaf and spectacularly poor at expressing his opinion to Addar. Or, of course he could just be racist against Qunari, on top of his general prejudice against modern people, but the Bull banter would seem to dispute that. Hmph.
I don't think Solas thinks they're 'naturally prone to violence', since he makes a lot of comments about not just Qunari which suggest that many of his issues with different groups of people are based on how they were raised rather than who they are. So nurture more than nature. He makes such comments about Lavellan Inky (paraphrasing - perhaps I was wrong now that I see that the Dalish can raise a person with a spirit like yours), mages (you lock them in the tower and call them monsters all their life and then you wonder why they act the way they do?), blood mages (they're taught that blood magic is bad so they believe they're bad for using it)... even Vints (they're taught that they must succeed through power so they do so). So, aside from the fact that I think they were able to go into detail about what he thinks about people like Qunari in banters (focused entirely on the topic) compared to concise and already really very branched dialogue in the balcony scene... I think that it's possible that Solas wasn't really aiming at being... hmm... considerate? Not getting into details about what he thinks, thus leaving 'backhandedy' (?) impression?? I say so because it's pretty clear that - aside from coming to terms about certain things - Solas is still uncomfortable and conflicted about the whole friendship thing. Like yeah, keeping distance would be kinder in the long run for befriended Inquisitor too, given that he knows where things are heading. So despite it being his friendship confirmation scene all he manages to squeeze out of himself is that he deeply respects Inky. And then he says something sad, which is that he thinks he disturbed Inky/wasted their time enough for one evening  Which... points at either a self-esteem in the gutter or desperate attempts to keep that ice wall protecting him from catching feelings from melting entirely. |
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Post by Ajna on Dec 16, 2018 9:40:02 GMT
Yup, I discovered that it still works, I also found my old saves...but, the one I tested doesn't work, probably because I don't have whatever mods I was using back then installed  |
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Post by Sifr on Dec 16, 2018 9:59:28 GMT
You know, I've always wondered about his comments on Qunari to an Adaar Inquisitor. They directly contradict what he says to Bull in banter, and I've always wondered... like, what does Solas actually believe about it? To Bull, he seems to think there's nothing different about Qunari as a race, but the social system of the Qun drives them to extremes. And then to Adaar, he seems to have the... interesting opinion that Qunari are just naturally prone to violence.
I guess they're not necessarily mutually exclusive, and Solas was just startingly tone-deaf and spectacularly poor at expressing his opinion to Addar. Or, of course he could just be racist against Qunari, on top of his general prejudice against modern people, but the Bull banter would seem to dispute that. Hmph.
It might because Solas' impressions on Adaar's race are based solely on the Qunari (extremely dogmatic and militant) and the Tal-Vashoth (mostly chaotic rebels). I doubt he has ever encountered a Vashoth before, since even the game points to them as being not widely known about in-universe (either due to low numbers or them wanting to keep a low-profile).
Maybe that's why Adaar may seem like such an anomaly to him, because the only frames of reference Solas has for Adaar's race consist of two groups that tend to be far more aggressive in nature.
It may also not have helped that Adaar was a mercenary before the Conclave, so Solas may have incorrectly assumed this career was to satisfy an innate need for violence. Rather than mercenary work being one of the few options available to Vashoth if they ever hope to put money and food on the table, because no-one else is willing to hire "Qunari".
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crying there are so many different solas/teaser/da4 threads now did i even post to the right place 😭
I see Cass, Cole, and Lavellan. Who is the one bending for the arrow?
Which... points at either a self-esteem in the gutter or desperate attempts to keep that ice wall protecting him from catching feelings from melting entirely.