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Post by Solas on Mar 20, 2020 18:11:53 GMT
Springboarding off the above do we think it's cool/okay now to post Solas-related Tevinter Nights things in here and discuss them? Under spoiler tags and clearly marked as such, of course. I'd been holding off for a while because I didn't feel cool about doing it like on Day 0 or Day 1 lol. Lmk! happy to take the lead from you guys.
edit what the fuck is this red line in my post??
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Post by midnight tea on Mar 20, 2020 18:18:36 GMT
Springboarding off the above do we think it's cool/okay now to post Solas-related Tevinter Nights things in here and discuss them? Under spoiler tags and clearly marked as such, of course. I'd been holding off for a while because I didn't feel cool about doing it like on Day 0 or Day 1 lol. Lmk! happy to take the lead from you guys. I think it mostly depends on whether there are enough of thread participants who have read this book? We have at least 3 now, so a question is whether us 3 have something to discuss that is relevant to the thread but may disappear or not be picked up in the Spoiler!TNBook thread and that those who didn't read/yet mind a few pages with hidden text???
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Mar 20, 2020 18:41:07 GMT
I've read everything, so I'm good with spoilery stuff
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 20, 2020 18:45:53 GMT
I’m curious to see what all the Solas fans here thought about the stuff in the book.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Mar 20, 2020 23:43:30 GMT
I'm still reading the book, about halfway through. Some thread-appropriate thoughts about Callback so far! I am reading the stories in sequence so I haven't read The Dread Wolf Take You yet.
I'm fine with people who have read it posting and discussing Solas-specific thoughts here, but please do keep them under spoilers.
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Post by Tanyara on Mar 21, 2020 11:51:30 GMT
About May the Dread Wolf Take You: The Mortalitasi story is quite interesting since it implies that the spirits seem to willingly fight for the Dread Wolf. Does this include ALL spirits? (probably not). Does it include demons? And for some reason I felt like it wasn't Solas speaking when the Dread Wolf showed up. I have no proof whatsoever of this, but I just got the feeling that the sentence structure and the way he spoke was different from Solas usual speech structure and how he talk later in the short story? Like I said, just a feeling without any actual grounds, but if Solas and the Dread Wolf are separate beings/different aspects of eachother (which has been discussed earlier) then it would explain why they (potentially) spoke differently. Since I think the Dread Wolf says something along the lines of it being HIS idol, could it be the Dread Wolfs idol and not Solas´? Since the idol is red lyrium and Solas really dislikes red lyrium, it seems odd to me why it would be his. Unless it's been tainted of course, or the reason that he dislikes red lyrium is because of the idol. Sorry for my erratic, slightly uncoherent text lol, I've too many thoughts about this that want to be expressed at the same time My brain gets messy XD Edit: Lol, just started reading the Tevinter Nights thread and saw that Hrungr already talked about specifically this over two weeks ago. Ah well, shows that I simply hang out here to seldom nowadays
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Post by midnight tea on Mar 21, 2020 13:41:09 GMT
About May the Dread Wolf Take You: The Mortalitasi story is quite interesting since it implies that the spirits seem to willingly fight for the Dread Wolf. Does this include ALL spirits? (probably not). Does it include demons? And for some reason I felt like it wasn't Solas speaking when the Dread Wolf showed up. I have no proof whatsoever of this, but I just got the feeling that the sentence structure and the way he spoke was different from Solas usual speech structure and how he talk later in the short story? Like I said, just a feeling without any actual grounds, but if Solas and the Dread Wolf are separate beings/different aspects of eachother (which has been discussed earlier) then it would explain why they (potentially) spoke differently. Since I think the Dread Wolf says something along the lines of it being HIS idol, could it be the Dread Wolfs idol and not Solas´? Since the idol is red lyrium and Solas really dislikes red lyrium, it seems odd to me why it would be his. Unless it's been tainted of course, or the reason that he dislikes red lyrium is because of the idol. Sorry for my erratic, slightly uncoherent text lol, I've too many thoughts about this that want to be expressed at the same time My brain gets messy XD Edit: Lol, just started reading the Tevinter Nights thread and saw that Hrungr already talked about specifically this over two weeks ago. Ah well, shows that I simply hang out here to seldom nowadays Well, we have known that the spirits were willingly fighting for the Dread Wolf since Trespasser (protecting his Sanctuary), so I'm not surprised there - it only seems to confirm that the Dread Wolf likely has a lot of spirits on his side.
The Mortalitaasi's tale is clearly one we shouldn't be taking at face value (as is everyone's), but it's interesting that she's kinda like "the spirits sort of looked like the GOOD spirits, but I'm really determined to whitewash my actions and portray the Dread Wolf as a monster so... they couldn't really have been spirits of Valor and Justice, could they?"
As for Solas speaking differently as the Dread Wolf... why wouldn't he be speaking differently when he wants to project as a Big Bad Wolf People Should Fear And Especially Those Bad Blood Mages?
I'm somewhat confused it's confusing to people that the Dread Wolf and Solas persona are somehow incongruent? We've just spent the entire previous title projecting on Thedas an image of Inquisitor that isn't necessarily reflecting the person underneath, for purposes of being a leader who sometimes has to project an image of strength and intimidate their enemies (like the slow ride on Exalted Council on a huge, decorated horse and surrounded by Inquisition's army), soooooooooo.... yeah, Solas is doing that.
And unlike Trespasser (or his chat with Charter) he has no reason to hold back... or give his enemies any reasons to dismiss him as just some bald Fade Nerd, lol. That mask is not slipping for them, oh no. The less they know about him privately the better - I mean, the reason the Mortalitaasi, Carta Assassins and the Executors have even agreed to their meeting with Inquisition's envoy was specifically to find out anything useful about Solas, including who he may have been as a person (because that's valuable info for spies).
This is *exactly* why I was telling people that Inquisition has an advantage - because they may not know everything, but they have enough info *about him* his quirks and habits to discern more about his actions than the others.
But it doesn't just have to be it - when Solas is deeply upset his manner of speech does get affected. And since the Venatori and Mortalallitaasi have been sacrificing people for blood rituals and messing with the Idol in a way that supposedly 'endangered all of creation', it was clearly something that has made him PIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISED OFFFFF. So, again, no reason to hold back the Big Bad Wolf.
Anyway - we don't really know in what manner he speaks when he's talking about HIS Idol - did he make it? Find it? ...Did he inherit it? Did it bond to him like Anchor did to Inquisitor?
...but I'd advise to not try and think of the Dread Wolf and Solas as separate, at least until we find out more. When Solas said that the Dread Wolf 'inspired fear in his enemies'... that's what he was talking about. The giant-ass Dragon-Wolf scaring the bejeesus out of whoever he wanted to be scared.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Mar 21, 2020 19:46:05 GMT
I still find it both funny and sad that the assassin's tale is basically "I backstabbed the agent of the Dread Wolf who hired me to sell the idol to another agent of the Dread Wolf, who in turn had no idea of its value and just sold it for whatever."
I do love how much that just showcases how badly this organizational structure is going. lol I mean, to be fair, its not really a *new* example of how this structure is bad. Its more just an extension of the previous example. But still, it was actually worse than we thought? lol If the writers don't take advantage of this and have Dread Wolf "agents" doing awful stuff in Solas' name in DA4 that it turns out he truly had nothing to do with, I will be disappointed.
I can see it now. Its gonna be a whole Thing and it'll make any protagonist that wants to give Solas the benefit of the doubt on a personal level seem like a moron for half the game. Because we'll have a choice where we're like "Well, maybe he can be reasoned with still. Solas is not a monster, not yet." and then next scene will be some nutball exploding an orphanage in Minrathous while yelling "Fen'harel enansal!" and the new companions just giving the protag a look.
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Post by midnight tea on Mar 21, 2020 20:36:44 GMT
I still find it both funny and sad that the assassin's tale is basically "I backstabbed the agent of the Dread Wolf who hired me to sell the idol to another agent of the Dread Wolf, who in turn had no idea of its value and just sold it for whatever."
I do love how much that just showcases how badly this organizational structure is going. lol I mean, to be fair, its not really a *new* example of how this structure is bad. Its more just an extension of the previous example. But still, it was actually worse than we thought? lol If the writers don't take advantage of this and have Dread Wolf "agents" doing awful stuff in Solas' name in DA4 that it turns out he truly had nothing to do with, I will be disappointed.
I can see it now. Its gonna be a whole Thing and it'll make any protagonist that wants to give Solas the benefit of the doubt on a personal level seem like a moron for half the game. Because we'll have a choice where we're like "Well, maybe he can be reasoned with still. Solas is not a monster, not yet." and then next scene will be some nutball exploding an orphanage in Minrathous while yelling "Fen'harel enansal!" and the new companions just giving the protag a look. It's Quintara that bought the thing, but nobody anticipated that he'd die and the lowly agent who was an informant would sell the thing. Although, of course, there's a question of whether Solas wanted to track and eliminate the guy who preformed the ritual with the Mortalitaasi... Question I have now is: does he have the Idol or does he not have it? Either way, considering how Inquisition has fared in Trespasser (including our own people getting haughty towards others) I'd take a gander on everyone having sand being thrown in eyes several times. This isn't as much a problem with structure, but so many interested parties with people under them who either think things should be done this or that way... or having people in other factions that are actually effective in tripping others up. Solas admits in TDWTY - "there are many of you and you are not fools". I've said once or twice that DA4 may end up as a wild goose chase for the most part and I may yet be right I expect a lot of backstabbery AND also a lot of zealots. We are getting to a point where stakes are this high.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 21, 2020 21:44:36 GMT
I still find it both funny and sad that the assassin's tale is basically "I backstabbed the agent of the Dread Wolf who hired me to sell the idol to another agent of the Dread Wolf, who in turn had no idea of its value and just sold it for whatever."
I do love how much that just showcases how badly this organizational structure is going. lol I mean, to be fair, its not really a *new* example of how this structure is bad. Its more just an extension of the previous example. But still, it was actually worse than we thought? lol If the writers don't take advantage of this and have Dread Wolf "agents" doing awful stuff in Solas' name in DA4 that it turns out he truly had nothing to do with, I will be disappointed.
I can see it now. Its gonna be a whole Thing and it'll make any protagonist that wants to give Solas the benefit of the doubt on a personal level seem like a moron for half the game. Because we'll have a choice where we're like "Well, maybe he can be reasoned with still. Solas is not a monster, not yet." and then next scene will be some nutball exploding an orphanage in Minrathous while yelling "Fen'harel enansal!" and the new companions just giving the protag a look. It's Quintara that bought the thing, but nobody anticipated that he'd die and the lowly agent who was an informant would sell the thing. Although, of course, there's a question of whether Solas wanted to track and eliminate the guy who preformed the ritual with the Mortalitaasi... Question I have now is: does he have the Idol or does he not have it? Either way, considering how Inquisition has fared in Trespasser (including our own people getting haughty towards others) I'd take a gander on everyone having sand being thrown in eyes several times. This isn't as much a problem with structure, but so many interested parties with people under them who either think things should be done this or that way... or having people in other factions that are actually effective in tripping others up. Solas admits in TDWTY - "there are many of you and you are not fools". I've said once or twice that DA4 may end up as a wild goose chase for the most part and I may yet be right I expect a lot of backstabbery AND also a lot of zealots. We are getting to a point where stakes are this high. Qintara has been dead for several years at that point, so it was Gaius who bought it by impersonating him. As for whether Solas has the Red Lyrium idol or not, I’m leaning towards not. I agree with those who theorize the reason he went to that meeting was to pick up any clues he could to lead him towards it. Plus with that being what Vaea and Co are chasing, I imagine we’ll get more info from them.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Mar 21, 2020 22:04:09 GMT
It's Quintara that bought the thing, but nobody anticipated that he'd die and the lowly agent who was an informant would sell the thing. Although, of course, there's a question of whether Solas wanted to track and eliminate the guy who preformed the ritual with the Mortalitaasi... Question I have now is: does he have the Idol or does he not have it? Either way, considering how Inquisition has fared in Trespasser (including our own people getting haughty towards others) I'd take a gander on everyone having sand being thrown in eyes several times. This isn't as much a problem with structure, but so many interested parties with people under them who either think things should be done this or that way... or having people in other factions that are actually effective in tripping others up. Solas admits in TDWTY - "there are many of you and you are not fools". I've said once or twice that DA4 may end up as a wild goose chase for the most part and I may yet be right I expect a lot of backstabbery AND also a lot of zealots. We are getting to a point where stakes are this high. Qintara has been dead for several years at that point, so it was Gaius who bought it by impersonating him. As for whether Solas has the Red Lyrium idol or not, I’m leaning towards not. I agree with those who theorize the reason he went to that meeting was to pick up any clues he could to lead him towards it. Plus with that being what Vaea and Co are chasing, I imagine we’ll get more info from them. Yeah, I agree that it was not the actual Magister Qintara who bought it. It was Gaius. He basically says as much when he talks about how he acquired the idol so he could trade it away.
I didn't realize that its possible Solas doesn't actually have the idol, and that that bit of the story could be a complete fabrication, till someone else said it. However, it does explain something for me.
The "bard" speaks of the red lyrium idol having two figures, one embracing the other. The thing is, we know the idol actually has three bodies in it. (Or at least, it did, last we saw it.) The mortalitasi also says the idol has two bodies. So, its possible it was an oversight or a retcon. Or its just that *neither* of these characters actually got a good look at the idol. In other words, Solas doesn't have it and only has a vague idea of what it looks like.
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Post by midnight tea on Mar 21, 2020 22:04:51 GMT
It's Quintara that bought the thing, but nobody anticipated that he'd die and the lowly agent who was an informant would sell the thing. Although, of course, there's a question of whether Solas wanted to track and eliminate the guy who preformed the ritual with the Mortalitaasi... Question I have now is: does he have the Idol or does he not have it? Either way, considering how Inquisition has fared in Trespasser (including our own people getting haughty towards others) I'd take a gander on everyone having sand being thrown in eyes several times. This isn't as much a problem with structure, but so many interested parties with people under them who either think things should be done this or that way... or having people in other factions that are actually effective in tripping others up. Solas admits in TDWTY - "there are many of you and you are not fools". I've said once or twice that DA4 may end up as a wild goose chase for the most part and I may yet be right I expect a lot of backstabbery AND also a lot of zealots. We are getting to a point where stakes are this high. Qintara has been dead for several years at that point, so it was Gaius who bought it by impersonating him. As for whether Solas has the Red Lyrium idol or not, I’m leaning towards not. I agree with those who theorize the reason he went to that meeting was to pick up any clues he could to lead him towards it. Plus with that being what Vaea and Co are chasing, I imagine we’ll get more info from them. In the comic it's stated only that Quintara has died 'long ago', which isn't very specific - and we've discussed on the other thread that the theft (or initial request) may have happened some time ago too, maybe even prior to Trespasser.
Anyway, considering that we know from the book that the Idol is/was with the Vint mage I'm not sure how much info we may actually get in the comic book. But I also agree that the Idol may not be in Solas's possession, which means it's probably with the Mortalitasi's 'noble son'... does that mean we're going to visit Nevarra? Although the noble may as well have taken the Idol back to Tevinter (not like travel matters that much, IF we'd have regular access to different eluvians).
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Mar 21, 2020 22:09:09 GMT
Qintara has been dead for several years at that point, so it was Gaius who bought it by impersonating him. As for whether Solas has the Red Lyrium idol or not, I’m leaning towards not. I agree with those who theorize the reason he went to that meeting was to pick up any clues he could to lead him towards it. Plus with that being what Vaea and Co are chasing, I imagine we’ll get more info from them. In the comic it's stated only that Quintara has died 'long ago', which isn't very specific - and we've discussed on the other thread that the theft (or initial request) may have happened some time ago too, maybe even prior to Trespasser.
Anyway, considering that we know from the book that the Idol is/was with the Vint mage I'm not sure how much info we may actually get in the comic book. But I also agree that the Idol may not be in Solas's possession, which means it's probably with the Mortalitasi's 'noble son'... does that mean we're going to visit Nevarra? Although the noble may as well have taken the Idol back to Tevinter (not like travel matters that much, IF we'd have regular access to different eluvians).
Any theories on what the liquid inside the idol is? I think that's a reliable detail since it came from the Carta guy who would have no reason to lie about the details of the idol's structure.
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Post by midnight tea on Mar 21, 2020 22:15:24 GMT
Qintara has been dead for several years at that point, so it was Gaius who bought it by impersonating him. As for whether Solas has the Red Lyrium idol or not, I’m leaning towards not. I agree with those who theorize the reason he went to that meeting was to pick up any clues he could to lead him towards it. Plus with that being what Vaea and Co are chasing, I imagine we’ll get more info from them. Yeah, I agree that it was not the actual Magister Qintara who bought it. It was Gaius. He basically says as much when he talks about how he acquired the idol so he could trade it away.
I didn't realize that its possible Solas doesn't actually have the idol, and that that bit of the story could be a complete fabrication, till someone else said it. However, it does explain something for me.
The "bard" speaks of the red lyrium idol having two figures, one embracing the other. The thing is, we know the idol actually has three bodies in it. (Or at least, it did, last we saw it.) The mortalitasi also says the idol has two bodies. So, its possible it was an oversight or a retcon. Or its just that *neither* of these characters actually got a good look at the idol. In other words, Solas doesn't have it and only has a vague idea of what it looks like. I'm not entirely sure the other figure matters, as it is on the back and doesn't appear to be interacting with the crowned figure or the comforted elf. I mean, he/she MAY matter, it's just not what's in front, plus the description can't be as short and sweet if one tried to mention it - "the crowned figure comforting another... oh, and the other dude on the back with no arm" (er... no left arm... does it matter?)
However... I wouldn't be surprised if there were more than one Idol? And maybe one of them is... fake'ish, maybe? I have my doubts but still.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Mar 21, 2020 22:16:29 GMT
In the comic it's stated only that Quintara has died 'long ago', which isn't very specific - and we've discussed on the other thread that the theft (or initial request) may have happened some time ago too, maybe even prior to Trespasser.
Anyway, considering that we know from the book that the Idol is/was with the Vint mage I'm not sure how much info we may actually get in the comic book. But I also agree that the Idol may not be in Solas's possession, which means it's probably with the Mortalitasi's 'noble son'... does that mean we're going to visit Nevarra? Although the noble may as well have taken the Idol back to Tevinter (not like travel matters that much, IF we'd have regular access to different eluvians).
Any theories on what the liquid inside the idol is? I think that's a reliable detail since it came from the Carta guy who would have no reason to lie about the details of the idol's structure. I don't think there's actual liquid in it. I think he was just trying to describe the unusual weight/magical weirdness of it.
But I could be wrong.
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Post by midnight tea on Mar 21, 2020 22:20:33 GMT
In the comic it's stated only that Quintara has died 'long ago', which isn't very specific - and we've discussed on the other thread that the theft (or initial request) may have happened some time ago too, maybe even prior to Trespasser.
Anyway, considering that we know from the book that the Idol is/was with the Vint mage I'm not sure how much info we may actually get in the comic book. But I also agree that the Idol may not be in Solas's possession, which means it's probably with the Mortalitasi's 'noble son'... does that mean we're going to visit Nevarra? Although the noble may as well have taken the Idol back to Tevinter (not like travel matters that much, IF we'd have regular access to different eluvians).
Any theories on what the liquid inside the idol is? I think that's a reliable detail since it came from the Carta guy who would have no reason to lie about the details of the idol's structure. Well, we can safely assume that the Idol is more than just a fancy figurine made out of red lyrium and... bronze?, so why wouldn't it contain liquid of some sort?
I mean, we already know that apparently there's a red lyrium blade hidden under the base, so who knows what else is there. Perhaps even the whole ocean, for all we know. Magic is weird.
I'd put my bet on either something/someone or maybe even multiple someones trapped in that liquid - or some sort of Special Blood being there.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 21, 2020 22:22:22 GMT
Yeah, I agree that it was not the actual Magister Qintara who bought it. It was Gaius. He basically says as much when he talks about how he acquired the idol so he could trade it away.
I didn't realize that its possible Solas doesn't actually have the idol, and that that bit of the story could be a complete fabrication, till someone else said it. However, it does explain something for me.
The "bard" speaks of the red lyrium idol having two figures, one embracing the other. The thing is, we know the idol actually has three bodies in it. (Or at least, it did, last we saw it.) The mortalitasi also says the idol has two bodies. So, its possible it was an oversight or a retcon. Or its just that *neither* of these characters actually got a good look at the idol. In other words, Solas doesn't have it and only has a vague idea of what it looks like. I'm not entirely sure the other figure matters, as it is on the back and doesn't appear to be interacting with the crowned figure or the comforted elf. I mean, he/she MAY matter, it's just not what's in front, plus the description can't be as short and sweet if one tried to mention it - "the crowned figure comforting another... oh, and the other dude on the back with no arm" (er... no left arm... does it matter?)
However... I wouldn't be surprised if there were more than one Idol? And maybe one of them is... fake'ish, maybe? I have my doubts but still. A person without a left arm, you say?
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Mar 21, 2020 22:24:50 GMT
Yeah, I agree that it was not the actual Magister Qintara who bought it. It was Gaius. He basically says as much when he talks about how he acquired the idol so he could trade it away.
I didn't realize that its possible Solas doesn't actually have the idol, and that that bit of the story could be a complete fabrication, till someone else said it. However, it does explain something for me.
The "bard" speaks of the red lyrium idol having two figures, one embracing the other. The thing is, we know the idol actually has three bodies in it. (Or at least, it did, last we saw it.) The mortalitasi also says the idol has two bodies. So, its possible it was an oversight or a retcon. Or its just that *neither* of these characters actually got a good look at the idol. In other words, Solas doesn't have it and only has a vague idea of what it looks like. I'm not entirely sure the other figure matters, as it is on the back and doesn't appear to be interacting with the crowned figure or the comforted elf. I mean, he/she MAY matter, it's just not what's in front, plus the description can't be as short and sweet if one tried to mention it - "the crowned figure comforting another... oh, and the other dude on the back with no arm" (er... no left arm... does it matter?)
However... I wouldn't be surprised if there were more than one Idol? And maybe one of them is... fake'ish, maybe? I have my doubts but still. Isn't the second figure also being embraced, though? Her right arm is reaching back towards it through the ring.
Again, it may just be being retconned now. Or an oversight during writing. (I noticed quite a few grammatical errors throughout the book, too, so an oversight wouldn't surprise me.) But the third figure was in the 3D render of the idol in the Dread Wolf Rises teaser, so... I think it exists. And it wouldn't have been hard for it to be described as two figures embracing the woman instead of one. Or the woman embracing/comforting two of them.
I don't think its likely the third figure is there but just not important enough to be mentioned. Its not mentioned for a reason, be it an in-universe or an out-of-universe reason.
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Post by Elessara on Mar 21, 2020 22:27:29 GMT
*sniffle* Oh the nostalgia. It's like Trespasser release all over again.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Mar 21, 2020 22:29:17 GMT
I'm not entirely sure the other figure matters, as it is on the back and doesn't appear to be interacting with the crowned figure or the comforted elf. I mean, he/she MAY matter, it's just not what's in front, plus the description can't be as short and sweet if one tried to mention it - "the crowned figure comforting another... oh, and the other dude on the back with no arm" (er... no left arm... does it matter?)
However... I wouldn't be surprised if there were more than one Idol? And maybe one of them is... fake'ish, maybe? I have my doubts but still. A person without a left arm, you say? An interesting point, but I'd also hesitate to read too much into it, yet. It could just be like Star Wars and everyone who loses a limb, loses that arm. lol
Or it could be the boring answer and just be natural wear and tear on the millenia old idol.
Though, if the idol was made due to some vision of the future (which we know can be a thing due to some of Flemythal's commentary in the series and Ziloni's prophecies), the lack of a left arm is very interesting, I agree. It'd be neat if that thing was actually a foreshadowing of some pivotal scene in the future this whole time. Or is made into one at some point in development.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 21, 2020 22:34:53 GMT
A person without a left arm, you say? An interesting point, but I'd also hesitate to read too much into it, yet. It could just be like Star Wars and everyone who loses a limb, loses that arm. lol
Or it could be the boring answer and just be natural wear and tear on the millenia old idol.
Though, if the idol was made due to some vision of the future (which we know can be a thing due to some of Flemythal's commentary in the series and Ziloni's prophecies), the lack of a left arm is very interesting, I agree. It'd be neat if that thing was actually a foreshadowing of some pivotal scene in the future this whole time. Or is made into one at some point in development. Oh, I don’t think it always meant something. After all the idol was in DA2 so long before this game or even Trespasser. It’s more likely like you said they could make it mean something, especially since DA4 is part 2 of DAI. Like a certain character being the only one who can stop Solas, hence making them look the part before coming back as the main character in DA4.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Mar 22, 2020 3:21:06 GMT
The Dread Wolf in the Mortalitasi's story in The Dread Wolf Take You speaks in Hallelujah cadence. I take this as yet more evidence that the Dread Wolf and Solas are just two aspects of the same entity; they are not separate beings.
As a reminder, Hallelujah cadence goes 8/8/11 8/8/11 4/4/4/5.
You meddle past your understand- (8) ing, foolish mortal mages and (8) in doing so, you threaten all creation. (11)
You use my idol carelessly (8) to vandalize the sea of dreams. (8) Now feel the pain of what you have created. (11)
From this moment (4) should you ever (4) bind a spirit (4) then your life is mine. (5)
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Mar 22, 2020 4:44:52 GMT
Have we ever gotten an answer from Patrick as to why Hallelujah is the cadence he writes in for Solas? Like, what message or feeling does Patrick get from that song that applies to Solas, specifically about the Fade and ancient elves. Melancholy? Broken faith in the world? A hope that keeps seeping thru in spite of the singer? (Are there any fan essays on this I've missed? lol)
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Mar 22, 2020 6:12:23 GMT
^ AlleluiaElizabeth Yes, in this BioWare Blog entry about what the writers listened to while writing their characters. ...However, for a few specific parts, even that wasn’t quite right for me. When Solas talks about things that he saw in the Fade, things that speak to a distant past, I needed him to sound ever so slightly otherworldly and wistful – someone remembering a dream with a sense of both sadness and inevitability.
So I took k.d. lang’s cover of “Hallelujah”, and I wrote key scenes to that single song on loop.
If you follow that link and look at some of Solas’s lines, you may notice a familiar rhythm come out. It would have been forcing it to give lines the same rhyme scheme, but giving the words the meter captured some of that wistfulness and made Solas sound ever so slightly otherworldly:
At Haven:
“I’ve journeyed deep into the Fade in ancient ruins and battlefields to see the dreams of lost civilizations.
I’ve watched as hosts of spirits clash to reenact the bloody past in ancient wars both famous and forgotten.
Every great war has its heroes. I’m just curious what kind you’ll be.”
On very rare occasions, the player’s voice would actually play along with this:
Solas: The Chantry says that demons hate the natural world and seek to bring their chaos and destruction to the living.
Solas: But such simplistic labels misconstrue their motivations and, in so doing, do all a great disservice.
Solas: Spirits wish to join the living, and a demon is that wish gone wrong.
Player: Is there a way to coexist? To live with them, if not in peace, at least without such active confrontation?
Solas: Not in the world we know today. The Veil creates a barrier that makes true understanding most unlikely.
Solas: But the question is a good one, and it matters that you thought to ask.
(In the rare cases the player got into the same rhythm, there was always an approval bump from Solas. For that brief period, it was like the player was thinking like he did.)
I used this a few times over the game, and I love what it did to his voice. Also, Cori (who edited Solas) is exceedingly kind for putting up with my request that changes to those lines keep this surreptitious rhythm. I think they might also have been asked about it in various interviews they've done over the years since DAI was released, but I wouldn't know which ones to direct you to.
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Post by midnight tea on Mar 22, 2020 19:34:23 GMT
Have we ever gotten an answer from Patrick as to why Hallelujah is the cadence he writes in for Solas? Like, what message or feeling does Patrick get from that song that applies to Solas, specifically about the Fade and ancient elves. Melancholy? Broken faith in the world? A hope that keeps seeping thru in spite of the singer? (Are there any fan essays on this I've missed? lol) I think it's a simple fact that he likes it and that it gives the character a consistent, recognizable personal quirk. As a bonus, stuff like that allows to identify Solas, in case there are doubts about him and the Dread Wolf being one person - like the above.
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