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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 7, 2020 11:48:23 GMT
Actually by connecting Shartan with Solas in order to explain how he could be in many places at once, I am trying to reclaim Shartan as an individual in the history of Thedas. It is the writers of the prologue to the Canticle of Shartan who are doing him a disservice as they start to undermine the idea he was ever a real person.
The human scholars are the ones who says there is no "proof" of Shartan's existence. The human scholars are the ones who point out the similarities between the oral account of the elves about his rebellion and the elven folktale of a "rebellion against tyrants led by a trickster warrior", so suggesting the account of Shartan isn't authentic. The humans scholars are the ones who have pointed out that "Shartan" is credited with rebellions in numerous Tevinter cities but "we cannot verify that he led any of them". The humans scholars are the ones who suggest that Shartan may merely have been a elven title or ideal given to every leader of the rebellion, so every rebellion had its "Shartan".
In this case, we know as players that this is not true because we met the shade of Shartan in the Gauntlet and the Dalish, at least in DAO, definitely see him as an individual person who died before reaching his Halamshiral. So why did the writers of WoT2 go to such lengths to discredit him? I assume to show how what the Divine gives with one hand, she takes back with the other. The Canticle of Shartan is returned to the Chant but it can be discounted as mere elven fabrication, based off an earlier legend, and not a true account of him at all, when in fact he probably didn't even exist.
Finally, it is the designers of the Chantry iconography in Redcliffe and which can be found in WoT2 illustrating "Shartan's Legacy", who chose to make him look more like a mage than a warrior, with a degree of resemblance to Solas that seemed to get the whole "Shartan was Solas" nonsense going.
Believe me, I want Shartan to be a hero in his own right but the writers of WoT2 just won't allow that, so I've come up with a plausible reason to account for him being in so many places at once and the similarities in the story. Shartan will always be one of my favourite characters from history, whether he had anything to do with Solas or not, and a genuine elven hero.
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 7, 2020 13:10:08 GMT
Actually by connecting Shartan with Solas in order to explain how he could be in many places at once, I am trying to reclaim Shartan as an individual in the history of Thedas. It is the writers of the prologue to the Canticle of Shartan who are doing him a disservice as they start to undermine the idea he was ever a real person. ... But Shartan could be an individual in the history of Thedas and (the one we know from legends or Canticle at least) can still be mostly fictitious - as in: many things that were the deeds of other people were attributed to him, if not completely made up. It happened to a lot of real people. Heck, quite a few Catholic Saints are this strange amalgam between 'well, someone has existed at some point in history" and fictitious deeds, with quite a few of them being actually a transplant from older religions and pagan deities, some of whom they've supplanted. Also.... wasn't it sorta-kinda like that with Inquisitor? What they were in eyes of others wasn't always what they were in reality. And that was during their lifetime and short time they were the most important person in the world. I'm not sure it's safe to assume that things in the Gauntlet were 100% historically accurate. WoT2 also isn't 100% historically accurate. Don't forget that none of history or codices in DA are written from objective perspective. The 'scholars' who have written WoT2 do not have the final say in the matters.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 7, 2020 18:28:31 GMT
Heck, quite a few Catholic Saints are this strange amalgam between 'well, someone has existed at some point in history" and fictitious deeds, with quite a few of them being actually a transplant from older religions and pagan deities, some of whom they've supplanted. I'm well aware of this but you are missing the point. Shartan had already been erased from history at the behest of the Chantry for political reasons. One reference in the Chant they left in because it referred to the Liberator and without the Canticle of Shartan people would not necessarily connect it with the elven hero. Then the Canticle of Shartan is restored after some 800 years (This was originally the intension of Divine Justinia which is why Leliana still goes through with it, plus her own sympathies for the elves). So finally justice is done to Shartan, regardless of what the later elves did, but almost immediately the human scholars undermine his very existence, so the faithful can just dismiss his contribution to the success of Andraste as something the elves made up. I don't actually recall an instance of that occurring with a Catholic saint. Normally it is the other way around and someone who has been worshiped as a saint for 800 years is suddenly erased from the calendar of saints because their existence can't be proven, for example Saint Christopher. Shartan did exist. The spirit in the Gauntlet remembers him and its words about his dream for his people is consistent with what Gisharel said in DAO in the text about the Long Walk. Interestingly that is not the codex quoted in WoT about the Long Walk. I can accept that World of Thedas is written from an in world perspective, so what I am doing is presenting the argument that I might give in world to one of those human scholars, although I acknowledge that linking him with Solas might not be the best move given current circumstances. Still the eluvians are known about thanks to the Inquisition. Apparently Morrigan and the Qun managed to get into the network and use them without Solas, so why not Shartan? That is the most logical explanation for how Shartan could have been credited with starting the revolt in so many cities at virtually the same time. Not many elves calling themselves Shartan as some sort of title but one elf using the eluvians. Mind you, I suppose it could be a case of their overlords asking Shartan to reveal himself and the elves doing an "I'm Spartacus" type of response. Still when he turned up in Minrathous and tried to rescue Andraste, it would have been pretty clear who Shartan was.
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Post by Tanyara on Aug 27, 2020 19:23:57 GMT
OMG IT'S FINALLY HAPPENING!🤪😝🥴🤯🥳
That Elvhen God though....*droool*
I'm probably last to notice but MAN I have waited too long for this sh*t to not lose my mind over it XD
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Aug 27, 2020 22:16:46 GMT
I guess if there is one thing to look forward to, it's that our wolf boy is looking positively scrumptious.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 27, 2020 22:24:12 GMT
Sorry that you Solevellan fans are getting screwed over.
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Post by Solas on Aug 28, 2020 1:40:16 GMT
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Post by Elessara on Aug 28, 2020 3:05:40 GMT
Sorry that you Solevellan fans are getting screwed over. That didn't exactly show us a whole lot so unless I'm missing something I don't see how Solavellan fans are getting screwed over? It showed some animations, some art, a couple VAs ... nothing about the protagonist or even much about the story except some really basic themes.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Aug 28, 2020 3:13:18 GMT
Sorry that you Solevellan fans are getting screwed over. That didn't exactly show us a whole lot so unless I'm missing something I don't see how Solavellan fans are getting screwed over? It showed some animations, some art, a couple VAs ... nothing about the protagonist or even much about the story except some really basic themes. The concern is over the official website. The world needs a New Hero.It's not absolute confirmation, but....well.
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Post by roselavellan on Aug 28, 2020 3:20:17 GMT
I think we'll get a new protagonist, but I don't think it totally excludes the possibility of Inquisitor returning for a small part.
Though... on Twitter Alix Wilton Regan did mention she knew as much of it as we do. Which is not comforting. (Hopefully she meant the video! Hope springs eternal!)
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Aug 28, 2020 3:22:41 GMT
I think we'll get a new protagonist, but I don't think it totally excludes the possibility of Inquisitor returning for a small part. Though... on Twitter Alix Wilton Regan did mention she knew as much of it as we do. Which is not comforting. (Hopefully she meant the video! Hope springs eternal!) What I don't get is, if they aren't involving the Inquisitor in any way, why is Charter (and everyone else, for that matter) still reporting to them? It makes no sense.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Aug 28, 2020 5:05:25 GMT
Be patient... There is still a possibility of dual protagonists. I'm amused that Solas is curious about the new hero in the same way he was about our Inquisitors. Just in less friendly way. "Every great war has its heroes. I’m just curious what kind you’ll be." and "The Dread Wolf inspired hope in my friends and fear in my enemies… not unlike 'Inquisitor,' I suppose." VS. "They call me the Dread Wolf. What will they call you when this is over?"
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Aug 28, 2020 8:17:39 GMT
I mean... why would you focus on "half the fans want to kill him, half want to marry him, half want to do both" if you're... not going to address that? Like, not actually marrying necessarily, but I'd expect something beyond "Well... new protag doesn't outright hate him." too. They have to address the Inquisitor's stake in this.
Also: I came into this thread wondering why the title changed. Now I know. lol
Also, also:
Image 1: Hot. Image 2: Hmm, not sure how I feel but mostly Hot. Mouth's a lot poutier than I remember. Not saying its bad, just saying I'm getting used to it. Also, crown of the head is a little pointier, but maybe that's more realistic??? lol
Image 3: Can't stop giggling.
But seriously, are the veins in his temples actually bulging when he's angry?! This tech, guys.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 28, 2020 10:35:35 GMT
Sorry that you Solevellan fans are getting screwed over. That didn't exactly show us a whole lot so unless I'm missing something I don't see how Solavellan fans are getting screwed over? Just because there is going to be a new PC to start the game doesn't mean the Solavellan fans are being screwed over. If I recall correctly several on the writing team are major Solavellan fans, so they would be being screwed over as well. In fact I am fairly confident that because several of the team are so invested in that relationship, they will do it justice. We just won't be playing the Inquisitor character the whole game.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 28, 2020 10:37:51 GMT
Incidentally I think that concept art of the Dread Wolf is awesome but shouldn't his wolf be black? Oh, wait, that is the romanced version.
I think it is safe to say that Fen'Harel is fully powered up now. Sounds to me like he is not happy with the new PC. Don't give much for their chances. May be that is when the Inquisitor intervenes.
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Post by Elessara on Aug 28, 2020 11:22:44 GMT
That didn't exactly show us a whole lot so unless I'm missing something I don't see how Solavellan fans are getting screwed over? It showed some animations, some art, a couple VAs ... nothing about the protagonist or even much about the story except some really basic themes. The concern is over the official website. The world needs a New Hero.It's not absolute confirmation, but....well. Ahh, I see. I hadn't looked at the website. I also read the replies after and yeah, it may look like we're getting a new protagonist but yeah, doesn't mean we won't be seeing the Inquisitor again. If they do have the Inquisitor show up, I just hope we'll actually be able to choose dialogue, unlike how they handled Hawke in DAI. Also, the next game is "The Dread Wolf Rises". We may not be having a final showdown against Solas in this particular game. Right now, however, as we know so little I'll put my faith in the writers. Patrick Weekes is still there. I can't imagine that the situation will be ignored entirely.
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Post by Elessara on Aug 28, 2020 11:26:54 GMT
I mean... why would you focus on "half the fans want to kill him, half want to marry him, half want to do both" if you're... not going to address that? Like, not actually marrying necessarily, but I'd expect something beyond "Well... new protag doesn't outright hate him." too. They have to address the Inquisitor's stake in this.
Also: I came into this thread wondering why the title changed. Now I know. lol
Also, also: <snip> Image 1: Hot. Image 2: Hmm, not sure how I feel but mostly Hot. Mouth's a lot poutier than I remember. Not saying its bad, just saying I'm getting used to it. Also, crown of the head is a little pointier, but maybe that's more realistic??? lol
Image 3: Can't stop giggling.
But seriously, are the veins in his temples actually bulging when he's angry?! This tech, guys.
Yeah, that modelling ... not sure how I feel about it. The mouth is too full but it's still noticeably Solas. Also, that particular model makes him look ... younger? ... to me.
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Post by Buckeldemon on Aug 28, 2020 15:26:45 GMT
Sorry that you Solevellan fans are getting screwed over. That didn't exactly show us a whole lot so unless I'm missing something I don't see how Solavellan fans are getting screwed over? Just because there is going to be a new PC to start the game doesn't mean the Solavellan fans are being screwed over. If I recall correctly several on the writing team are major Solavellan fans, so they would be being screwed over as well. In fact I am fairly confident that because several of the team are so invested in that relationship, they will do it justice. We just won't be playing the Inquisitor character the whole game. Do you know which writers? I just got that Weekes (and Weekes?) sustain themselves on fan tears. Oh, and apparently taking it as an ad-hominem if people voice their suspicions that PW seems to like thrashing the Dalish.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 28, 2020 15:44:58 GMT
Do you know which writers? I can't remember off hand. I thought it was mentioned in that presentation on Trespasser and also possibly on Twitter and then repeated here but since I don't have a Twitter account I can't check this.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Aug 28, 2020 18:53:54 GMT
I grabbed some shots of his less goofy looking face, for reference. Other than his sickly-looking skin, I like what I'm seeing so far. Edit: Now that we've seen a snarley face and a...surprised kissy face, I really want to see a smile. Smiling Solas is best Solas.
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Post by Solas on Aug 28, 2020 19:12:35 GMT
For me I don't need the Inquisitor to be the PC to have a satisfying resolution (in any direction) to the Solas-Inquisitor (romanced Lavellan and others) story. I don't think having the Inquisitor as the PC is a necessary prerequisite for that to happen.
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Post by Garnet on Aug 28, 2020 19:51:42 GMT
I think the Inquisitor will definitely have some sort of role in DA4. I think they will be some kind of advisor or contact to the new main character. (Just my speculation.) I might be misremembering, but I thought they already stated a while ago that the Quizzy would not be the main character.
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Post by Elessara on Aug 28, 2020 21:15:14 GMT
I think the Inquisitor will definitely have some sort of role in DA4. I think they will be some kind of advisor or contact to the new main character. (Just my speculation.) I might be misremembering, but I thought they already stated a while ago that the Quizzy would not be the main character. So little has been said on the next DA game but I'm pretty sure if they'd officially announced that the Inquisitor would not be the main character it would have been all over this thread at least. However, as much as I'd like to have the Inquisitor to be the one dealing with Solas, I'm fairly sure the next game will have a new protagonist. Regardless, Weekes has said (on some Twitter thread or other) that he wants to give the Solas-Lavellan romance some kind of closure. Now, whether or not he'll be allowed to is another thing.
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Post by Julilla on Aug 28, 2020 21:46:10 GMT
Just in to say that I like the new thread title. Good job, Thread Dad!
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Post by Tanyara on Aug 30, 2020 9:51:59 GMT
I mean... why would you focus on "half the fans want to kill him, half want to marry him, half want to do both" if you're... not going to address that? Like, not actually marrying necessarily, but I'd expect something beyond "Well... new protag doesn't outright hate him." too. They have to address the Inquisitor's stake in this.
Also: I came into this thread wondering why the title changed. Now I know. lol
Also, also:
Image 1: Hot. Image 2: Hmm, not sure how I feel but mostly Hot. Mouth's a lot poutier than I remember. Not saying its bad, just saying I'm getting used to it. Also, crown of the head is a little pointier, but maybe that's more realistic??? lol
Image 3: Can't stop giggling.
But seriously, are the veins in his temples actually bulging when he's angry?! This tech, guys.
In image nr 2 I'm not liking his eyes and eyebrows? He looks a bit sceptical.....and stoned....The irises are so small it looks weird. The head shape is a bit different but I can probably get used to it.
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