The Blanketfort (crying and throwing up) - The Official Solas Thread [Spoilers]

Thanks for disagreeing (it's not sarcasm btw), because it makes me actually think. And nothing wrong with being ranty, or feeling strongly about the issue...

I feel strongly about it too. So here is my attempt at an explanation of my position. As you said, the Inquisitor isn't Solas' nurturer or helpmeet. He's a grown-up person, not a baby to be "educated" on how much mortal lives are worth. He knows that; maybe even better than the Inquisitor does. He generally knows more, has seen more. If he says that the world was better off before, there might be truth to his words; not in the least because right now, said world is in an "unnatural" state and could be destroyed - really destroyed, not just changed - thousand times over by other things anyway. And who knows, maybe the Veil harmed Thedas on some even deeper, more meaningful level. Maybe it has to be back for the world to continue existing.

I'm not saying that Solas is 100% right, but if he's willing to go this far, there might be a serious reason for that (not just guilt), and that's worth considering; trying to learn more before making a conclusion.

And when I say "to support him", I do not mean converting to his cause. I mean support him personally. This can mean many things, including, yes, trying to convince him that finding another way might be a better solution. But not in an "you are wrong and I am right just because" way. By talking... by reminding him of the cost and consequences, asking him if he's ready to accept this responsibility as well. By reminding him that there should be another way that doesn't cost that much, and that taking it would not only "save" the world, but also wouldn't make *him* feel so horrible about himself. Over and over again. Giving him facts that would make him come to the conclusion you need by himself. And just being here, yes, because people have a tendency not to listen to those they consider enemies/rivals/etc. 

He's pretty much 50/50 right now in that he wants to be "saved" and convinced otherwise, but push a person too much and they'll go the opposite direction.

I think that for the original post, I just aggro-ed at some words and didn't bother with explaining, so it's my fault. All above is absolutely subjective, and I apologize if it sounds... off. _{But I tried! ...now I RUN.}

Thank you for being open to being disagreed with! And yeah, no need to apologise. I've certainly responded hastily to words/phrases that have pushed my buttons. Maybe even here

On the 'tough love' issue, I think we agree more than disagree. I'm not really a proponent of most of the behaviour I see it being used to justify. Yes, you can mean well and still be harmful, especially if you assume that just because someone stumbles and you don't, you know what's good for them. IRL when someone's being self-destructive, sometimes you do have to let them walk their own path, with all that it entails.

Where I object is the idea that the Inquisitor, knowing that many others will be harmed, does nothing because she's put aside the demands of her own conscience in order to help Solas find his. Now, maybe they're the same thing. But when it comes to people who say 'I'm with him no matter what and that's what love is', I just can't agree. That's what I object to.

I don't think you need to assume moral superiority in order to disagree or even have serious conflict with someone. My assumption is everybody is acting on their best knowledge. My Inquisitor can do no less than Solas in this regard. He may know a lot more than her about a lot of things, and I headcanon that she probably deferred a lot to his wisdom while in Skyhold, but that's not the same as taking her conscience out of the picture. And when the world is at stake, she can't simply trust that one person, no matter who, knows enough to say that the whole world is worth sacrificing - not without a lot of convincing. I don't know that Solas is going to stop and give her that, though.

But no, I certainly don't advocate going off half-cocked and trying to fight Solas into abandoning his plans. First of all, my Inquisitor isn't an 'explode first, ask questions later' gal. Second, she's not going to fight him until she knows there's no alternative. She doesn't want to fight him. If she has a chance, or a dozen, she's going to take every one to try and talk to him.

As for supporting him, I know you mean support in a personal way. I know I've said it before on the old forums, but if it were me personally I'd spend the whole next game hugging Solas (and ok maybe sometimes grabbing his butt). But when it comes to the Inquisitor, neither she nor Solas can pretend that she doesn't have a huge stake in what he's wrestling with. It may not be his, but it is her entire world and everyone she loves and has ever loved. That is always going to be sitting on the table between them. I believe Solas respects honesty as much as he does kindness. To try and engage with him over the matter as some kind of purely sympathetic, infinitely consoling angel, rather than who you are - someone heartbroken, frightened and with a lot to lose by his choices - is at the very least pretty manipulative. Am I advocating that we go in, staffs blazing, looking to pummel him into submission with fists or words? No. But neither are we going to get through this without some conflict.

Yes, playing tricks on a trickster god is such a horrible idea that it might just work due to its sheer stupidity...

I don't think playing tricks on the ultimate trickster is going to work personally. This is the guy who managed to outfox seven Evanuris (and possibly the Forgotten Ones too). He didn't foresee the effects of raising the Veil but that wasn't him falling to trickery (unless someone else did want that to happen). I'm mindful of the fact that he seems extremely good at chess, which is why I feel that doing something totally unexpected is more likely to throw him. It's why I think he wouldn't expect you to disband the Inquisition because he believes that no one who has power will ever relinquish it willingly and even reduced power is better than none. It was funny because he referred to it as my Inquisition but I never really thought of it that way since it hadn't been my idea in the first place. I just got on with the job and grew into the role. I like what it enabled me to do as a force for good in the world but knew the gratitude of nobles would never last once the imminent danger was out of the way. I was a threat to them because I was there to stop them taking advantage of the little people. I think Solas appreciated that. I think he would also appreciate that I didn't want to be under the control of the Chantry, even with a Divine with whom I was on good terms. That would just be history repeating itself.

Breaking the cycle of shattered dreams and corruption of noble ideals, that's the secret.

I have to admit though, sometimes I get paranoid and think 'what if he said all that stuff about institutions and corruption in order to get me to disband the Inquisition because that's what he wants???'

Anybody else ... ?

Edited to add: re. tricks, best to stick to the basics, like putting critters in his bedroll.

You're not being reassuring.

Seriously, I can't take another Solas. I hate this sort of thing. I got super upset over Yoshimo and I didn't even finish that game! Stop it Bioware!

Cassandra, at least, I can't see betraying a friendly Inquisitor, even if their goals differ from the Chantry's. I mean Cass will no doubt side with whomever she thinks is right, which may not be the Chantry (she's walked away from it before). But if she goes against the Inquisitor, I'm fairly sure it will be done openly.

Solas is an idealist... But the problem is that the world is not ideal, and it will never be. No matter what, there's always going to be some kind of problem - what he did is just exchanging one for another, and he seems to be on the road to continue the cycle. An ideal is just that - a pretty picture in your head, and a one that tends to make you blind to what's really going on to boot. I believe that to change the world, we'll have to change the people first (or rather the people have to change by themselves).

Anyway. In my mind, his "solution" would be to abandon that idea of an "ideal" world. Otherwise even if he finds a way to bring the Veil down non-lethally, it's only a matter of time before some other problem arises.

Is anyone there into MBTI?https://www.16personalities.com/infp-personality I kind of wonder what Solas' type would be. He tries to behave like a Thinker, but he strikes me as more of a Feeler.

Solas is an idealist... But the problem is that the world is not ideal, and it will never be. No matter what, there's always going to be some kind of problem - what he did is just exchanging one for another, and he seems to be on the road to continue the cycle. An ideal is just that - a pretty picture in your head, and a one that tends to make you blind to what's really going on to boot. I believe that to change the world, we'll have to change the people first (or rather the people have to change by themselves).

Anyway. In my mind, his "solution" would be to abandon that idea of an "ideal" world. Otherwise even if he finds a way to bring the Veil down non-lethally, it's only a matter of time before some other problem arises.

Is anyone there into MBTI? I kind of wonder what Solas' type would be. He tries to behave like a Thinker, but he strikes me as more of a Feeler.

I can't remember who is was, maybe it was our own Threadad, who said they think he's an INFP, which captures his introvertedness, his idealism and how painfully much he cares, despite having difficulty expressing it.

A lot of people I've seen write him off as a "Chessmaster" INTJ-type, but I don't think he's written that way at all. I'm an INTJ for the most part, and while he can be aloof, he's never seemed capable of the sort of cold indifference I know myself to be capable of. He can fake it very well, but it's not the same thing, and ultimately comes leaking out of him in proclamations like "What we had was real!". This man is dripping with unexpressed emotion.