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Post by QuizzyBunny on Sept 9, 2016 20:37:02 GMT
Guys! GUYS! I passed the exam! I passed the exam!!! I'm not a failure! So ridiculously happy and excited right now! I even got a f*cking C! I don't understand anything! I swear, there's something fishy about this but right now I don't care!
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Post by Domakir on Sept 9, 2016 20:40:59 GMT
Guys! GUYS! I passed the exam! I passed the exam!!! I'm not a failure! So ridiculously happy and excited right now! I even got a f*cking C! I don't understand anything! I swear, there's something fishy about this but right now I don't care!
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Post by ellawyn on Sept 9, 2016 20:49:55 GMT
Second bit: I don't think its accurate to lump "guilty" in with "mostalgic/racist" as motivations. His relationship with the Inquisitor determines whether he goes through his "you are really people" arc or not. So the nostalgia/racism/elitism/arrogance angle is circumstance-based. But if he's acting out of guilt, he can and will still act, whether he sees the current people as people or not. Guilt being a primary factor in his motivation doesn't negate his character arc. Its why I think we aren't going to be able to convince him fullstop not to do it. We're going to have to find a compromise, either in method or in end results, or we're gonna have to kill him. That... that's fair. But I still don't think his motivations come down to emotion. ^This. I don't see Solas' situation as any more or less complicated than the above at the moment. I don't think there's some hidden danger he's saving the world from that he just fails to mention or anything else. Its duty, plain and simple. Personal responsibility and obligation to correct a past wrong while it can still be corrected. He simply can't not fix it. In his view, he has no right to stop. Could you (Or Catfishers) expand a bit more on what you mean by this? Because I'm not sure I fully understand. I certainly wouldn't feel guilty abandoning plans to "fix" my mistake - or rather, I'd feel just as guilty either way, since the mistake can't really be fixed, and returning the world to what it was won't return the people who lived in it. To be clear though - I'm not saying that his motivation is to stop a blight/slow the decay of the world/whatever. I think those are all possibilities. I think there are lots of other possibilities, too. But even if his reasons are logical, it doesn't mean that they're good. For instance, let's go with the theory that low-approval Solas is cool with killing everyone because he believes that the elvhen are just better, and Thedas' death is worth their eventual return. There's a motivation that makes logical sense. Solas is essentially working on a chain of reasoning that goes "Modern people suck -> I can make them not suck by tearing down the Veil -> that will kill a lot of people though -> who cares, they're not even really people anyway." His goal is clear ("Bring back people who have magic and immortality and an understanding of magic.") and his method of achieving that goal makes sense ("Tearing down the Veil will return that to them.") and his reasons for accepting the consequences make sense ("I can throw away the lives of all these people, because they're not people, their lives are worth less.") Regardless, I probably don't have to point out why that's still not a very nice motivation, even if it's one that makes sense. But with theories like the one you posit here, I'm at a loss. His goal is to fix the mistake he made, because he feel duty-bound to do so - okay, but how does this achieve that? This WON'T bring them back, so it won't fix his mistake, so his entire course of action is futile. I'm not trying to go "No you're wrong," I just genuinely want to hear some expansion on it.
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Post by Elessara on Sept 9, 2016 21:03:50 GMT
Guys! GUYS! I passed the exam! I passed the exam!!! I'm not a failure! So ridiculously happy and excited right now! I even got a f*cking C! I don't understand anything! I swear, there's something fishy about this but right now I don't care! Yay!! See? We told you you weren't a failure!
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Post by ellawyn on Sept 9, 2016 21:10:34 GMT
Guys! GUYS! I passed the exam! I passed the exam!!! I'm not a failure! So ridiculously happy and excited right now! I even got a f*cking C! I don't understand anything! I swear, there's something fishy about this but right now I don't care! Congrats! But ah dude, I could use some test-passing magic right now. *Rubs fur* Give me your secrets, Bunny.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Sept 9, 2016 21:13:27 GMT
Congrats! But ah dude, I could use some test-passing magic right now. *Rubs fur* Give me your secrets, Bunny. Magical Bunny to the rescue!
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Still in Solavellan Hell.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by NightSymphony on Sept 9, 2016 21:44:55 GMT
I never found Solas ugly... but then I had a crush on Leonard Nimoy's Spock as a girl, and in one of the early pre-release Solas screen captures, the elf basically looked like a bald Leonard Nimoy's Spock and that was fine with me. I posted this on my Facebook wall yesterday because of the Star Trek 50th Anniversary, but your comment made me think of it again... Source - comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/category/star-trek/
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Post by Solas on Sept 9, 2016 21:53:08 GMT
/ random segue: I'm gonna watch this movie with some people from the wider cBSN community (specifically from a place called TSG). Blazing Saddles, maybe Goldfinger (James Bond) after too if enough people are still around. they do this sort of event weekly/fairly often, I like it for community-building and interacting with other groups. they were nice and welcoming to me when I stumbled into one of their streams a little while ago. info on how to join in/participate at the link. starts in less than 10 mins, you're all welcome to come join. one thing to bear in mind is their sense of humor, a lot of banter flies around in the group and some of it is not PC or SFW. I know this isn't everyone's cup of tea or not everyone agrees with such things so I wanted to make people aware so they didn't get caught off guard : ) pm me if you have a question or concern. i'll try to give more notice next time, I would have posted about it earlier but I was travellin n shit.
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Post by xerrai on Sept 9, 2016 22:33:42 GMT
That's fascinating Ondine, if the elven traits in elf blooded children are not being expressed because it's the magic that lays dormant would that mean that it's possible that should the Veil be gone, elf blooded children may manifest elven traits? *Also, when this thread hits 100 pages, will there be a temporary title change? That'd be neat* It's actually a tad bit disappointing, but apparently elves or elf-blooded children do not work by genetics. You can be elf-blooded, but you cannot be a half-elf. You're either an elf or your not. This info was given by Patrick Weekes himself. ( Patrick Weekes tweet)
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Post by Nimlowyn on Sept 9, 2016 22:44:52 GMT
That's fascinating Ondine, if the elven traits in elf blooded children are not being expressed because it's the magic that lays dormant would that mean that it's possible that should the Veil be gone, elf blooded children may manifest elven traits? *Also, when this thread hits 100 pages, will there be a temporary title change? That'd be neat* It's actually a tad bit disappointing, but apparently elves or elf-blooded children do not work by genetics. You can be elf-blooded, but you cannot be a half-elf. You're either an elf or your not. This info was given by Patrick Weekes himself. ( Patrick Weekes tweet) There's got to be an explanation for that...
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Post by opuspace on Sept 9, 2016 23:10:40 GMT
That's fascinating Ondine, if the elven traits in elf blooded children are not being expressed because it's the magic that lays dormant would that mean that it's possible that should the Veil be gone, elf blooded children may manifest elven traits? *Also, when this thread hits 100 pages, will there be a temporary title change? That'd be neat* It's actually a tad bit disappointing, but apparently elves or elf-blooded children do not work by genetics. You can be elf-blooded, but you cannot be a half-elf. You're either an elf or your not. This info was given by Patrick Weekes himself. ( Patrick Weekes tweet) That will still mess with me every time I hear that. Elf blooded. It sounds like there's some sort of physical distinction that should be there even though they're just human children.
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Post by Solas on Sept 9, 2016 23:27:48 GMT
*Also, when this thread hits 100 pages, will there be a temporary title change? That'd be neat* this is a cool idea, i'll take suggestions guys! shouldnt just be me that gets to have fun with the title.
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Post by opuspace on Sept 9, 2016 23:34:07 GMT
*Also, when this thread hits 100 pages, will there be a temporary title change? That'd be neat* this is a cool idea, i'll take suggestions guys! shouldnt just be me that gets to have fun with the title. Hmmm...how about-no, that won't work...uhm...darn this is harder than expected.
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Post by Sifr on Sept 9, 2016 23:57:31 GMT
But with theories like the one you posit here, I'm at a loss. His goal is to fix the mistake he made, because he feel duty-bound to do so - okay, but how does this achieve that? This WON'T bring them back, so it won't fix his mistake, so his entire course of action is futile. I'm not trying to go "No you're wrong," I just genuinely want to hear some expansion on it. What stops the modern Elves from being his people is because he thinks (and he's right in a way) that they are merely simulacra of what they should be. The magic that was an intrinsic part of them has been diminished by the Veil to the point where it lies dormant in the majority of modern Elves. By tearing down the Veil, that shackle and inhibitor will be removed and modern Elves will be restored to what they should be. I don't think that Solas intends to kill the modern Elves with what he's doing because that would defeat the point. He doesn't care about them as they currently are, but he does care what they will become when he succeeds. The question then is how he plans to keep them alive when the Veil is torn down? The Breach events and the Dark Future showed the destruction was the result of the Fade bleeding into Thedas, but the Fade seemed to be unaffected and nothing was pulled through save for things the Inquisitor brought via the Anchor. Being in either the Fade or a pocket dimension like the Crossroads or Vir Dirthara, could provide a lifeboat for the Elves to more safely ride out the storm. Solas states in Trespasser that his original plan was to use the Anchor to enter the Fade and bring down the Veil, so perhaps the Fade won't be as affected by the maelstrom of "raw chaos" from the collapse as Thedas will be? (Unless the other reason he was going to go to the Fade was to tap into the ambient magical energy to help power the rituals, since even with his Orb his own power has been drained during the millennia he slept? Now he's without the Orb, he perhaps needed to steal Mythal's power to try to get the power he needed, but it wasn't nearly enough?)
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Post by lilyenachaos on Sept 10, 2016 0:41:38 GMT
But with theories like the one you posit here, I'm at a loss. His goal is to fix the mistake he made, because he feel duty-bound to do so - okay, but how does this achieve that? This WON'T bring them back, so it won't fix his mistake, so his entire course of action is futile. I'm not trying to go "No you're wrong," I just genuinely want to hear some expansion on it. What stops the modern Elves from being his people is because he thinks (and he's right in a way) that they are merely simulacra of what they should be. The magic that was an intrinsic part of them has been diminished by the Veil to the point where it lies dormant in the majority of modern Elves. By tearing down the Veil, that shackle and inhibitor will be removed and modern Elves will be restored to what they should be. I don't think that Solas intends to kill the modern Elves with what he's doing because that would defeat the point. He doesn't care about them as they currently are, but he does care what they will become when he succeeds. The question then is how he plans to keep them alive when the Veil is torn down? The Breach events and the Dark Future showed the destruction was the result of the Fade bleeding into Thedas, but the Fade seemed to be unaffected and nothing was pulled through save for things the Inquisitor brought via the Anchor. Being in either the Fade or a pocket dimension like the Crossroads or Vir Dirthara, could provide a lifeboat for the Elves to more safely ride out the storm. Solas states in Trespasser that his original plan was to use the Anchor to enter the Fade and bring down the Veil, so perhaps the Fade won't be as affected by the maelstrom of "raw chaos" from the collapse as Thedas will be? (Unless the other reason he was going to go to the Fade was to tap into the ambient magical energy to help power the rituals, since even with his Orb his own power has been drained during the millennia he slept? Now he's without the Orb, he perhaps needed to steal Mythal's power to try to get the power he needed, but it wasn't nearly enough?) I would guess whatever spell/ritual he plans to use to bring the veil down is going to make things more...seamless, than the mess we saw in the future. I don't doubt that there would still be chaos, but perhaps (hopefully) not the totally uncontrolled disaster that was Cory meddling in things he didn't get. Source: www.deviantart.com/art/Solas-595922853
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Still in Solavellan Hell.
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Post by NightSymphony on Sept 10, 2016 2:23:26 GMT
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Post by colonelkillabee on Sept 10, 2016 2:40:44 GMT
But with theories like the one you posit here, I'm at a loss. His goal is to fix the mistake he made, because he feel duty-bound to do so - okay, but how does this achieve that? This WON'T bring them back, so it won't fix his mistake, so his entire course of action is futile. I'm not trying to go "No you're wrong," I just genuinely want to hear some expansion on it. What stops the modern Elves from being his people is because he thinks (and he's right in a way) that they are merely simulacra of what they should be. The magic that was an intrinsic part of them has been diminished by the Veil to the point where it lies dormant in the majority of modern Elves. By tearing down the Veil, that shackle and inhibitor will be removed and modern Elves will be restored to what they should be. I don't think that Solas intends to kill the modern Elves with what he's doing because that would defeat the point. He doesn't care about them as they currently are, but he does care what they will become when he succeeds. The question then is how he plans to keep them alive when the Veil is torn down? The Breach events and the Dark Future showed the destruction was the result of the Fade bleeding into Thedas, but the Fade seemed to be unaffected and nothing was pulled through save for things the Inquisitor brought via the Anchor. Being in either the Fade or a pocket dimension like the Crossroads or Vir Dirthara, could provide a lifeboat for the Elves to more safely ride out the storm. Solas states in Trespasser that his original plan was to use the Anchor to enter the Fade and bring down the Veil, so perhaps the Fade won't be as affected by the maelstrom of "raw chaos" from the collapse as Thedas will be? (Unless the other reason he was going to go to the Fade was to tap into the ambient magical energy to help power the rituals, since even with his Orb his own power has been drained during the millennia he slept? Now he's without the Orb, he perhaps needed to steal Mythal's power to try to get the power he needed, but it wasn't nearly enough?) I bet we'll find out that it won't work at all, and that the world we're in now is something entirely different from what it used to be, thanks to the veil, and same for the elves we have now. That trying to combine the two worlds will just result in ending them both. Though, they did hint that this would happen and that magic would return to everyone, but that doesn't mean it will be stable and remain. It sounds a bit like Alchemy, trying to strip protons and such to make a new element. But then, this is magic, not science. What if the way the grey wardens kill Archdemons, having your soul and theirs combine, and the two cancelling one another out was foreshadowing... That or these demons making abominations out of those they join with. It seems like they've been saying from the start that trying to forcefully meld two things of different worlds is disastrous.
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Post by colonelkillabee on Sept 10, 2016 2:49:33 GMT
Dang yall move fast! Hey everyone, new BSNs not too bad after all. Killabee mah duuuude My
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Post by Sifr on Sept 10, 2016 4:29:48 GMT
It seems like they've been saying from the start that trying to forcefully meld two things of different worlds is disastrous. Kind of describes Solavellan in a nutshell, when you think about it? (But we refuse to listen because #TeamOptimism)
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Post by CapricornSun on Sept 10, 2016 4:57:31 GMT
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Post by colonelkillabee on Sept 10, 2016 6:45:22 GMT
It seems like they've been saying from the start that trying to forcefully meld two things of different worlds is disastrous. Kind of describes Solavellan in a nutshell, when you think about it? (But we refuse to listen because #TeamOptimism) Dude... Cold, lol. I approve XD.
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Post by colonelkillabee on Sept 10, 2016 6:47:18 GMT
It seems like they've been saying from the start that trying to forcefully meld two things of different worlds is disastrous. Phew...well then, I'm relieved I didn't choose the green ending for Mass Effect 3. Fingers crossed they don't include an ending where all the spirits/demons couple up with modern Thedosians. We're all abominations! And that's OK! NO. You already know there's gonna be something like that, lol. Maybe you can have a little fade baby with him... his name will be... Starchild. An abomination that he created to make abominations out of everyone, so that no one will be abominations.
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Post by Catfishers on Sept 10, 2016 10:10:11 GMT
Could you (Or Catfishers) expand a bit more on what you mean by this? Because I'm not sure I fully understand. I certainly wouldn't feel guilty abandoning plans to "fix" my mistake - or rather, I'd feel just as guilty either way, since the mistake can't really be fixed, and returning the world to what it was won't return the people who lived in it. <snip> To be clear though - I'm not saying that his motivation is to stop a blight/slow the decay of the world/whatever. I think those are all possibilities. I think there are lots of other possibilities, too. But even if his reasons are logical, it doesn't mean that they're good. For instance, let's go with the theory that low-approval Solas is cool with killing everyone because he believes that the elvhen are just better, and Thedas' death is worth their eventual return. There's a motivation that makes logical sense. Solas is essentially working on a chain of reasoning that goes "Modern people suck -> I can make them not suck by tearing down the Veil -> that will kill a lot of people though -> who cares, they're not even really people anyway." His goal is clear ("Bring back people who have magic and immortality and an understanding of magic.") and his method of achieving that goal makes sense ("Tearing down the Veil will return that to them.") and his reasons for accepting the consequences make sense ("I can throw away the lives of all these people, because they're not people, their lives are worth less.") Regardless, I probably don't have to point out why that's still not a very nice motivation, even if it's one that makes sense.
But with theories like the one you posit here, I'm at a loss. His goal is to fix the mistake he made, because he feel duty-bound to do so - okay, but how does this achieve that? This WON'T bring them back, so it won't fix his mistake, so his entire course of action is futile.
I'm not trying to go "No you're wrong," I just genuinely want to hear some expansion on it. I guess that's the issue. We don't really know exactly what he's going to do, or how it's going to work, so making assumptions on his reasoning or motivation can only really be done by making other assumptions about the situation in general. My take on Solas' motivation relies on the assumption that it is possible to, in some way, actually undo his mistake in a real way. As in; that by tearing down the Veil the ancient Elvhen of Solas' time can actually be saved or restored, rather than the removal of the Veil simply resetting things to a blank slate where everyone who was originally lost is dead, and everyone who sprang up since then is also dead. I make this assumption primarily because the latter just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense as a thing anyone, including Solas, would bother doing. If all hope for 'correcting' the mistake was truly lost, then I can't see any reason for him doing it. Why restore magic to a world if he's going to be the only one alive to see it? There has also been the implication that going through with his plan would end in his death (?), so why do it if literally no one will benefit? He (I believe) specifically says that his people can be saved. It's not that he wants to correct the world, per se, he wants to make it a place where his people can exist again. So, I'm assuming that there are pockets of ancient Elvhen somewhere that can actually benefit from Solas' plan; whether they be people like Abelas, adrift in the physical world, or Elvhen unable to wake from Uthenara, or Elvhen trapped in a pocket dimension, or (assuming from another popular theory that ancient elves and spirits differed only in that some chose to take physical form and others didn't) that the spirits/Elvhen of the fade could again take physical form if only the Veil were gone (obviously Cole's existence muddies this but... we/e). Ultimately I don't think that Solas would destroy the world if there was nothing to actually be gained by it. He's proven in the past (by ending his relationship with Lavellan) that his personal wishes are not a great motivator for him, so I can't help but think that his plan is motivated only by fixing the world for others, not for himself. As I said before, this is making a lot of assumptions, because without assuming some things we have very little to actually go on.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 10, 2016 13:52:58 GMT
I am still convinced that Solas is only intending saving the few ancient elvhen who are still in existence. They may be up and moving around, like Abelas, or they may be waiting things out in uthenera, but it is these ancient elves who will benefit from his plan, whereas he expects the modern elves to die along with everyone else.
The reason for thinking this is that he implies that Lavellan will die. "Enjoy the time you have left", said to a friend or "I will always remember you" to his love. Also if speaking to a non-elf Inquisitor, whom he dislikes and who killed Abelas and the Sentinals, he says: "After observing you strike down some of the last true elves left..." So he agrees with Abelas that Lavellan and all modern elves are not "true" elves, just "shadows wearing vallaslin". This is also the reason for his sense of urgency about carrying out his plan, because the Crossroads is breaking down and likely those in Uthenera are threatened with extinction, possibly through their link with their sustenance from the Fade weakening over time.
Even so, I don't really understand what he means by the world burning in the fires of chaos. Does he simply mean there will be enormous strife during the transitional period or that the sudden injection of magic back into the world will destabilise it in some way? If the former, then some people may survive, particularly if they make sufficient preparation; if the latter then how does he intend preventing it affecting the "true" elves as well?
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Post by Seven Zettabytes on Sept 10, 2016 15:17:02 GMT
If Solas is not going through with his plans for all elves, but only ancient elves, then I don't like the implications. The epilogue of Trespasser showed that elves all over Thedas are rallying to his cause. Is he using them? I know he's capable of it and that some dialogue shows he has done it before. Do the elves know that they would die? Are they all ancient elves who have been living in disguise among Thedosians (which seems far-fetched)? Would he have lied to them or promised them something, or are the elves so angry with the rest of the world that they would be willing to sacrifice themselves for the return of 'their' culture?
In short, I'm very curious what motivates these people.
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