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Post by QuizzyBunny on Aug 27, 2016 12:23:40 GMT
I really love speculating about these things, and your guess is as good as mine. What I find really interesting about the mosaics in comparison to a lot of other elven remnants is that I think they reflect how the Evanuris wanted to be seen - we know from what Solas tells us that Falon'Din wanted to be worshiped, so your guess about him presenting himself as a god of Uthenara would make sense I suppose. I wonder though why he wanted so many new followers... was it purely vanity or something more sinister? Bloodmagic seems to have existed back in the day, so did he use his slaves for rituals and thus needed more? Then again, it's Anduril and not Falon'Din that is known as the god of sacrifice. Ugh, I want answers damn it!
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Post by Panda on Aug 27, 2016 12:27:52 GMT
Follow up question with Solasmance- do I need to pick every flirt/heart- option in order to romance to succeed? There is some dialogues where I'd rather pick something else, more fitting to discussion or more interesting.. but I failed romancing Thane in ME2 when I didn't pick every heart and I don't want that happen again ^^;
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Post by Lucinia on Aug 27, 2016 12:33:05 GMT
Follow up question with Solasmance- do I need to pick every flirt/heart- option in order to romance to succeed? There is some dialogues where I'd rather pick something else, more fitting to discussion or more interesting.. but I failed romancing Thane in ME2 when I didn't pick every heart and I don't want that happen again ^^; Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think the only one that you can't skip is kissing him in the dream in Haven. I don't remember any flirt option before that one affecting the romance. If you don't flirt with him there you can't start the romance.
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Post by Lucinia on Aug 27, 2016 12:36:15 GMT
I know I have mentioned this before, but playing Trespasser brought it up again so I would like to bring it up for discussion once more. So, we know that the temple of Mythal, temple of Dirthamen and all the temples we see in Trespasser are from the time the Evanuris reigned supreme, correct? That would mean it dates back to a time before the Veil was created. In the temples we see these mosaics: Now, the one I want to talk about is the one above, Falon'Din. His mosaic depicts him with a shepherd's staff, which supposedly was connected to this myth: Obviously this is a myth were at least parts of it are new, as the Veil did not exist during the time of the Evanuris. But if that is the case, why is Falon'Din depicted with his shepherd's staff in the temples? What other symbolic purpose could it possibly have had? The shepherd usually symbolizes someone caring and protective, and from what Solas tells us Falon'Din was anything but that. So is his mosaic simply propaganda that the Dalish would later come to create a whole myth based upon? Maybe the truth is somewhere in between? Or wait -- maybe he was a literal guide to death in the sense that he would help people along by killing them and then propaganda was created to make it sound less sinister? Holy moly I am not a morning person. Still sipping my coffee, so my brain is all but useless at this hour. It sounded better in my head before I typed it out
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Aug 27, 2016 12:40:13 GMT
I know I have mentioned this before, but playing Trespasser brought it up again so I would like to bring it up for discussion once more. So, we know that the temple of Mythal, temple of Dirthamen and all the temples we see in Trespasser are from the time the Evanuris reigned supreme, correct? That would mean it dates back to a time before the Veil was created. In the temples we see these mosaics: Now, the one I want to talk about is the one above, Falon'Din. His mosaic depicts him with a shepherd's staff, which supposedly was connected to this myth: Obviously this is a myth were at least parts of it are new, as the Veil did not exist during the time of the Evanuris. But if that is the case, why is Falon'Din depicted with his shepherd's staff in the temples? What other symbolic purpose could it possibly have had? The shepherd usually symbolizes someone caring and protective, and from what Solas tells us Falon'Din was anything but that. So is his mosaic simply propaganda that the Dalish would later come to create a whole myth based upon? Maybe the truth is somewhere in between? Or wait -- maybe he was a literal guide to death in the sense that he would help people along by killing them and then propaganda was created to make it sound less sinister? Holy moly I am not a morning person. Still sipping my coffee, so my brain is all but useless at this hour. It sounded better in my head before I typed it out This is soooo my kind of humor!
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Post by Panda on Aug 27, 2016 12:41:30 GMT
Follow up question with Solasmance- do I need to pick every flirt/heart- option in order to romance to succeed? There is some dialogues where I'd rather pick something else, more fitting to discussion or more interesting.. but I failed romancing Thane in ME2 when I didn't pick every heart and I don't want that happen again ^^; Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think the only one that you can't skip is kissing him in the dream in Haven. I don't remember any flirt option before that one affecting the romance. If you don't flirt with him there you can't start the romance. I'm already pass that, I think I'm already locked cause he refers Inquisitor as "my heart" when I talk to him. But I'm not sure if there are things that can make romance not process forward or make it fail like not picking every flirt.
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Post by Lucinia on Aug 27, 2016 12:46:38 GMT
Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think the only one that you can't skip is kissing him in the dream in Haven. I don't remember any flirt option before that one affecting the romance. If you don't flirt with him there you can't start the romance. I'm already pass that, I think I'm already locked cause he refers Inquisitor as "my heart" when I talk to him. But I'm not sure if there are things that can make romance not process forward or make it fail like not picking every flirt. I've romanced him at least twice when I was still playing Inquisition and I know that I didn't pick the flirt option every time. Flirts won't affect things as much as doing too many things he is really against; Cole. Don't be mean to Cole. Hopefully someone who's had the romance fail can chime in. My advice ain't so hot in that respect since I've never mucked it up.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Aug 27, 2016 12:46:55 GMT
Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think the only one that you can't skip is kissing him in the dream in Haven. I don't remember any flirt option before that one affecting the romance. If you don't flirt with him there you can't start the romance. I'm already pass that, I think I'm already locked cause he refers Inquisitor as "my heart" when I talk to him. But I'm not sure if there are things that can make romance not process forward or make it fail like not picking every flirt. I believe you can fail his personal quest? If you haven't played it yet then don't read the spoiler! Don't kill the Pride demon (his friend Wisdom), I think that might end the romance.
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Post by Amburu on Aug 27, 2016 12:47:13 GMT
I really love speculating about these things, and your guess is as good as mine. What I find really interesting about the mosaics in comparison to a lot of other elven remnants is that I think they reflect how the Evanuris wanted to be seen - we know from what Solas tells us that Falon'Din wanted to be worshiped, so your guess about him presenting himself as a god of Uthenara would make sense I suppose. I wonder though why he wanted so many new followers... was it purely vanity or something more sinister? Bloodmagic seems to have existed back in the day, so did he use his slaves for rituals and thus needed more? Then again, it's Anduril and not Falon'Din that is known as the god of sacrifice. Ugh, I want answers damn it! From felassan thread : they exist as long as you remember them. If the memories are strong enough, a slain spirit can be reborn. Worshipped evanuris would gain effective immortality in some way Typing from mobile so i suggest you to check the amazing posts of drosophila & others there for more details on the theory
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Post by Panda on Aug 27, 2016 12:52:15 GMT
I'm already pass that, I think I'm already locked cause he refers Inquisitor as "my heart" when I talk to him. But I'm not sure if there are things that can make romance not process forward or make it fail like not picking every flirt. I've romanced him at least twice when I was still playing Inquisition and I know that I didn't pick the flirt option every time. Flirts won't affect things as much as doing too many things he is really against; Cole. Don't be mean to Cole. Hopefully someone who's had the romance fail can chime in. My advice ain't so hot in that respect since I've never mucked it up. I'm already pass that, I think I'm already locked cause he refers Inquisitor as "my heart" when I talk to him. But I'm not sure if there are things that can make romance not process forward or make it fail like not picking every flirt. I believe you can fail his personal quest? If you haven't played it yet then don't read the spoiler! Don't kill the Pride demon (his friend Wisdom), I think that might end the romance. I guess DAI has different romance mechanics than ME's did, that's relief. I didn't like how it was just about picking hearts. I have done his personal quest and been quite nice with Cole soon that I guess romance and approval is on right track. So I should be free to compliment Briala to him instead of admiring him ^^ Thanks for the help again though.. and sorry for putting in middle of lore discussion. It's pretty interesting, but I haven't played DAI that much yet so I don't have things to add.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Aug 27, 2016 12:55:39 GMT
No biggie, we are all Solasmance-enablers here I imagine!
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Post by Solas on Aug 27, 2016 13:23:59 GMT
Excuse we while i ROFLMAO → linkEdit : ok i updated my status because i'm a bad grl LOL lMAO Congratulations Solas on getting the last post before the bomb drop!!!!!! And what a magnificent post it was too! SO FABULOUS!!!! thanks friendo Stick in the Mud omg I need a Solas blep mlem gif in my life. loving all the blep mlem signatures and sidebar statuses I am seeing :'D I'm stoked a throwaway random post brought lulz to folk. On a more serious note, thankyou DragonRacer for dropping by to explain what the rules on the nsfw picture front are. @the thread in general, I don't need to say but just in case, if you could please follow what DR outlined re: nsfw picture posting that would be grand and much appreciated. ('properly tag and spoiler things and follow the ProBoards rules regarding full-on pr0n [rules: www.proboards.com/tos]') also @the thread in general, I'll give it a few more days for any straggling BSNPrime people then update the OP. The BSN2 'starter pack' for example doesn't really need to be there anymore I think, for example.
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Post by Elessara on Aug 27, 2016 13:25:22 GMT
Maybe the truth is somewhere in between? Or wait -- maybe he was a literal guide to death in the sense that he would help people along by killing them and then propaganda was created to make it sound less sinister? Holy moly I am not a morning person. Still sipping my coffee, so my brain is all but useless at this hour. It sounded better in my head before I typed it out This is soooo my kind of humor! To continue this discussion, death to spirits isn't the same as death to mortals. IF elves are spirits who took physical form then perhaps their energy can return to the Fade when they die but because they took mortal form they need help (?) ... or a guide. I'm also remembering during Solas's personal quest where the Spirit of Wisdom asks Solas to guide it into death, almost like she needed help. There's also the possibility as was suggested above that maybe Falon'Din and his priests were the ones who helped elves into uthenara and watched over them whilst they slept. If I recall correctly not all elves were able to absorb energy directly from the Fade in order to keep their bodies alive and thus their bodies wasted away. Maybe Falon'Din and his priests knew the secret to this and were the primary ones to teach the technique?
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Post by Amburu on Aug 27, 2016 14:05:03 GMT
loving all the blep mlem signatures and sidebar statuses I am seeing :'D I'm stoked a throwaway random post brought lulz to folk. Dad you made HISTORY. OhMyGod I checked out the solas thread in the fr section and it's almost only hate posts so far LOL *rolls in blankets and hides forev* I have this feeling i should go there and explain how we can love him so much but I'm too scared i'm sorry Reminder that the fort is such a sweet place ♥♥♥
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Post by Solas on Aug 27, 2016 14:27:22 GMT
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Post by LliiraAnna on Aug 27, 2016 15:05:34 GMT
I have a totally relevant question. Assuming you didn't know they were all maniacs they had a darker side, which Dalish god would you choose to be your patron? I think I'd go with Mythal--I like the lunar theme and her vallaslin looks really pretty. Yes, I'm shallow like that.
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Post by lynroy on Aug 27, 2016 15:16:39 GMT
I shall answer with screen shots.
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Post by Amburu on Aug 27, 2016 15:21:22 GMT
BEAUTIFUL I have a totally relevant question. Assuming you didn't know they were all maniacs they had a darker side, which Dalish god would you choose to be your patron? I think I'd go with Mythal--I like the lunar theme and her vallaslin looks really pretty. Yes, I'm shallow like that.Lol I'd be the last to judge I've always worn the mythal vallaslin because i liekd it ;-; I had actually no clue it was hers before Abelas OMG I. Don't know. I need to know MORE because deciding. WE DON'T KNOW ENOUGH Even Solas tells us we don't know the truth about him ("what you saw was another story" etc) bleh For now... maybe FH is the safest because he didn't seem to want to rule over thedas. bleh. Needs hindsight. Needs to see what actually happened there for real, not ancient stories
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 27, 2016 15:24:51 GMT
On the subject of Falon'Din, I think there are clues in the Song to Falon'Din in the Temple of Mythal:
The People swore their lives to Falon'Din Who mastered the dark that lies. Whose shadows hunger Whose faithful sing Whose wings of death surround him thick as night. Lethanavir, master scryer, be our guide, Through shapeless worlds and airless skies.
There is also the advice being given for exploring the Fade given in the memory in the Library, where it says you have to allow 10 years for practice and the next hundred for searching. It also says that using what others have learned will ease your journey. It also says that those who have never manifested outside the Fade will find it easier to find its stillest roots, but it is a rare compulsion that overtakes "our brethren of the air".
It is this quote that seems to suggest most explicitly that there is a relationship between the elves and the spirits of the Fade. I think Falon'Din was someone who had mastered travelling the Fade and so acted as a guide for others who wished to explore it. As people above have suggested, the Dalish actually teach that to enter Uthenera was a skill of Ancient Times, so before the Veil, where because people were ageless, they instead entered Uthenera where they could learn information to benefit those back in the Waking World. As with all the Creators, I think that originally Falon'Din was a benign guide and he worked with his brother Dirthamen to assist those who wanted to explore the Fade. One helped people on the Veil side, the other on the Waking side. Then as with the other Creators, when they became Evanuris they gradually became more corrupt and their actions became more sinister. The Dalish also believe the the older members of the community would go into Uthenera to make way for younger ones. It is easy to see how something that was originally a voluntary action, might have become forced by the twin brothers. Also that to preserve secrets and to maintain their hold on knowledge gained from the Fade, Falon'Din might have started to kill elves in Uthenera. Finally, obviously sometimes elves would die from violence and Falon'Din may well have guided their spirits when they entered the Fade. This would add to his followers, so obviously if he arranged the death of people outside the Fade, that would get him more followers within it.
So the mosaic depicts him as his followers perceive him rather than as Solas recounts his history, which was likely towards the end of his reign, shortly before Mythal's death. Obviously the mosaics were produced likely many thousands of years before this.
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Post by LliiraAnna on Aug 27, 2016 15:36:05 GMT
"Whose shadows hunger", the wings of death... this guy is top-tier creepy. Also makes me think of blood magic and sacrifices. Could he use the spirits of the dead for his own gain? Bind them, or destroy them in a way that rebirth would be impossible? Maybe he's like an evolved version of the Spirit Eater from Mask of the Betrayer, needing souls for sustenance.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 27, 2016 15:36:15 GMT
As for choosing Vallaslin, my female Lavellan was originally going to take Sylaise because she is meant to promote the Vir'Atishan (Way of Peace) but I wasn't sure about the vallaslin over the eye and eventually opted for Ghilan'nain. My male Lavellan was a protector of his clan, so naturally he took the vallaslin of Mythal but only beneath the eyes. (I have my own head cannon reason for the meaning behind this). He was quite gratified to learn from Solas that Mythal did indeed care for her people and protected them, even if he was slightly let down by meeting Flemeth and discovering that all his prayers to Mythal had gone unheeded. Even so, she did tell him he did the People proud and that gave him a great deal of satisfaction, particularly coming as it did after the rejection by Abelas. To his mind the endorsement of his goddess trumps the rejection of her priest. Nevertheless he is rather relieved he didn't drink from the Well and thinks of Mythal more now as a sort of ultra-Keeper rather than a god, someone to try and emulate rather than worship. He assumes she died in the protection of her people but he would appreciate having confirmation of that fact.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Aug 27, 2016 15:50:41 GMT
I didn't know which vallaslin belonged to which god when I created Faolchu Ban, so I chose mine for purely aesthetic reasons. I later learned it was Sylaise's. But that worked out rather serendipitously for my Inquisitor, who was a diplomatic one. So without even realizing that it fit with the vallaslin I chose, while playing DAI my character basically WAS adhering to the Vir Atish'an.
Of course, this characteristic of hers bit her in the arse when diplomacy resulted in her losing her clan to the Freemarchers in Wycome. :/
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Post by NightSymphony on Aug 27, 2016 15:57:51 GMT
I originally picked the Mythal vallaslin because it looks like a tree and my Lavellan is a very elfy elf (frolicking with the trees). Now knowing what we know, I feel like it's very fitting in the story. If I had known what the vallaslin mean and who they stand for, I would have picked Ghilan'nain for my Atisha Lavellan because of her white hair (like a Halla).
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 27, 2016 16:03:38 GMT
On the subject of Falon'Din, I think there are clues in the Song to Falon'Din in the Temple of Mythal: The People swore their lives to Falon'Din Who mastered the dark that lies. Whose shadows hunger Whose faithful sing Whose wings of death surround him thick as night. Lethanavir, master scryer, be our guide, Through shapeless worlds and airless skies. Hmmm... this passage sort of tells me that we may actually not be talking about the Fade. Why? Because - consistently - the synonym for "Fade" in Thedosian literature is " air" (and sometimes "sky" or heavens"). We find it - most importantly - even in Vir Dirthara, where spirits are called by elves to be their "brethren of the air". I think what the song is referring to may actually be the Void. I mean, even the name sort of suggests that it's a place that is sort of empty, hence 'airless'. And when Solas's spirit friend had died, he has specifically mentioned that there are 'stirrings of energy in the Void', even though this is probably the only time when he uses this word in any reference to Fade or any immaterial realm.
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 27, 2016 16:05:54 GMT
I originally picked the Mythal vallaslin because it looks like a tree and my Lavellan is a very elfy elf (frolicking with the trees). Now knowing what we know, I feel like it's very fitting in the story. If I had known what the vallaslin mean and who they stand for, I would have picked Ghilan'nain for my Atisha Lavellan because of her white hair (like a Halla). My choice was purely aesthetic. With that said, it sort of fits - my f!Lavellan is sort of a "big sister" to everyone, which basically means she's on her way to become "mother hen"
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