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Post by Nimlowyn on Sept 27, 2016 5:31:07 GMT
For what it's worth, Chantry scholars have this to say about the Canticle of Shartan, quoted here in part and emphasis mine:
"...Authorship of the canticle has never been determined. The earliest versions appeared in the Dales around -140 Ancient. Elements appear very similar to ancient elven folktales about a rebellion against tyrants led by a trickster warrior, and it is hard to determine which parts are rooted in history and which in heroic myth...
...The text is very fragmented. Very few elven slaves could write Tevene, and nearly all the written language of the elves was lost at that time, so the canticle was preserved purely as oral tradition until clerics transcribed it at the behest of Justine I in 1:8 Divine. There are gaps in the tale, and it has often been speculated that between the ninth and tenth stanzas of the song, several verses or perhaps an entire stanza were lost. The search for the missing verses of Shartan, like the search for Shartan himself, has consumed many a Chantry scholar.
Countless historians have attempted to find proof of Shartan's existence over the years, with little success. Whether or not he lived, thousands of elves did rise up against the Imperium, throw off their chains, and fight alongside Andraste. Their story has shaped our world into what it is today." - WOT Vol 2, page 66
My read is not that Solas is Shartan, but that there was a time that Solas' legend as liberator had not died. I believe that if Shartan did exist (and I think that he did) he was inspired by the story of the "trickster warrior" and sought to emulate him.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Sept 27, 2016 6:09:24 GMT
I was going to post a reply stating much the same. During my second playthrough, I'd briefly considered the possibility of Solas having "given history a nudge", as Flemeth put it. The story of Shartan definitely calls to mind the true story of Fen'Harel, in certain ways. Too many things don't add up, though, as outlined above. Solas' lies seem to have strictly been lies of omission. I see no reason to doubt his claim of having awakened only very recently. Also, there is really no evidence to support the idea that Shartan was anyone other than the person history says he was: a Tevene elf slave. While parts of the tale remind one of the tale of Fen'Harel, other parts seem not at all like Solas, in my opinion. Also, he'd have far more familiarity with that era, it's history and cultures than he seems to have, if he'd been there as Shartan. Many things just don't add up. I don't believe Solas was Shartan, but that doesn't mean there is zero connection. Maybe the tale of Shartan is in part inspired by the true history of Fen'Harel; or maybe they're linked in some far more exciting way than I can presently see. The only way I can see Solas being Shartan is if some of Solas's earlier deeds were ascribed to Shartan - hence some similarities. We do know that it happened in our history and there's no reason to not think that it didn't happen in Thedas, given that we've seen the truth can become muddled just as easily, even shortly after events have happened... The entry regarding the Canticle of Shartan in World of Thedas volume 2 makes it sound like that is exactly what's happened. EDIT: Also, what Nimlowyn said.
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Post by lovelykotori on Sept 27, 2016 7:03:44 GMT
Alright, I was going to make a whole new elf. A rogue who hates humans and is really bitchy. She does not want to be there!! She just wants to go home!! But, after months of playing with sliders and mods I just couldn't make an elf I was happy with, so I just created Atisha again. She's a mage again, nice, sweet and wants to help everyone. Exactly the same, personality wise. *sighs* I'm stuck. lol..anyway, I made a comparison of my original Atisha with the new one. I feel like sharing. seeing such inquisitors ... it makes me feel bad I only have this game on the ps4. damn i need mods! desperatly! But I can't buy the game a second time just to play it on pc .. can I? 40 euro the version with all dlcs... I dunno what to do .. but MODS gnaaah! btw. your inquisitor is so pretty!
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Post by floratheelf on Sept 27, 2016 13:09:56 GMT
BEHOLD ALL SOLAS ROMANCERS! ALL OF YOUR LAVELLANS ARE WRONG! THEY SHOULD ALL BE LIKE THIS! No wonder my poor Lavellan(s) get dumped, they just never had his heart.
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NightSymphony
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Post by NightSymphony on Sept 27, 2016 14:49:19 GMT
seeing such inquisitors ... it makes me feel bad I only have this game on the ps4. damn i need mods! desperatly! But I can't buy the game a second time just to play it on pc .. can I? 40 euro the version with all dlcs... I dunno what to do .. but MODS gnaaah! btw. your inquisitor is so pretty! hehe...I know how you feel. I got DAI for my XBox 360 originally, then Trespasser came out and I was all angry and sad that I couldn't play it. I thought about getting an XBox One so I could play it but then I looked at all the pretty mods! So, I bought myself a really expensive gaming computer and got the game of the year edition for it. Now I am poor , but it was so worth it!! LOL Edit: Thank you!! I still need to play with her hair color. It's supposed to be white with black eyebrows but I didn't feel like messing with the color editor yesterday.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 27, 2016 15:11:58 GMT
Hmmm.... Anyone remembers the codex from DA2 - The Pickled Apples Of Arlathan? At first it seems like a silly entry made for laughs, but in the context of what we know from DAI, it's actually pretty sad. I mean, think about it... if Genitivi - a contemporary human Thedosian with no special connection to ancient past - felt a sense of intense loss so sharp that it moved him to tears merely after tasting a tiny sliver of a preserved apple... just how much of a crushing loss Solas or Abelas must feel after Veilless world was no more? Another thing is that Genitivi did indeed experiences a sense of loss, which seems to be indicating that he immediately missed more than just amazing taste. That carries some interesting implications.
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Post by ellawyn on Sept 27, 2016 16:21:45 GMT
Hmmm.... Anyone remembers the codex from DA2 - The Pickled Apples Of Arlathan? At first it seems like a silly entry made for laughs, but in the context of what we know from DAI, it's actually pretty sad. I mean, think about it... if Genitivi - a contemporary human Thedosian with no special connection to ancient past - felt a sense of intense loss so sharp that it moved him to tears merely after tasting a tiny sliver of a preserved apple... just how much of a crushing loss Solas or Abelas must feel after Veilless wield was no more? Another things is though that Genitivi did indeed experiences a sense of loss, which seems to be indicating that he immediately missed more than just amazing taste. That carries some interesting implications. Well, it's said somewhere that Solas doesn't eat a whole lot. I don't think that's entirely because he can draw sustenance from the Fade... At least he apparently enjoys Orlesian pastries.
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Post by lilyenachaos on Sept 27, 2016 16:27:50 GMT
BEHOLD ALL SOLAS ROMANCERS! ALL OF YOUR LAVELLANS ARE WRONG! THEY SHOULD ALL BE LIKE THIS! My eyes! I have never played around with mods. I have to admit this makes me want to try some out, lol.
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Post by lovelykotori on Sept 27, 2016 17:03:28 GMT
seeing such inquisitors ... it makes me feel bad I only have this game on the ps4. damn i need mods! desperatly! But I can't buy the game a second time just to play it on pc .. can I? 40 euro the version with all dlcs... I dunno what to do .. but MODS gnaaah! btw. your inquisitor is so pretty! hehe...I know how you feel. I got DAI for my XBox 360 originally, then Trespasser came out and I was all angry and sad that I couldn't play it. I thought about getting an XBox One so I could play it but then I looked at all the pretty mods! So, I bought myself a really expensive gaming computer and got the game of the year edition for it. Now I am poor , but it was so worth it!! LOL Edit: Thank you!! I still need to play with her hair color. It's supposed to be white with black eyebrows but I didn't feel like messing with the color editor yesterday. was trespasser not released for the xbox 360? honestly.. my bf gave me DAI as a present for the 360 .. i played only the prologe the loading times were too long and the graphics had so many problems that I sold the 360 version immediatly (and bougth the ps4 version instead). I have the money for the game but it's about principles. I don't wanna pay 40 euro for it >_< maybe 20 .. or I dunno. I will just wait and play on the ps4 until then. At the moment I play Origins for the first time on pc with mods and I am so happy. the 360 version was so annoying with the menu. also the game was only available in german and that really sucked the synchronisation is so bad. now with english +mods it's so much better if you edit her show me another screenshot but these two versions look really cool !!
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Post by NightSymphony on Sept 27, 2016 17:17:54 GMT
was trespasser not released for the xbox 360? honestly.. my bf gave me DAI as a present for the 360 .. i played only the prologe the loading times were too long and the graphics had so many problems that I sold the 360 version immediatly (and bougth the ps4 version instead). I have the money for the game but it's about principles. I don't wanna pay 40 euro for it >_< maybe 20 .. or I dunno. I will just wait and play on the ps4 until then. At the moment I play Origins for the first time on pc with mods and I am so happy. the 360 version was so annoying with the menu. also the game was only available in german and that really sucked the synchronisation is so bad. now with english +mods it's so much better if you edit her show me another screenshot but these two versions look really cool !! No. Both Decent and Trespasser did not come out for the PS3 or 360, so it's a good thing you sold your 360 copy and got it for PS4. I got my GOY copy during Christmas when it was on sale, it will probably be on sale again this year. Alright. I edited her..lol. Here is a new picture of her. I think I'm done for now. I'm pretty happy with the way she looks at the moment. That might change later, though. LOL
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Sept 27, 2016 17:18:39 GMT
From the twitter thread and vital to our interests: Gypsiri @gypsiriI know you don't always answer q's about DA4, but we all need to know mark: Will Solas be mentioned in the game at all? lol Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrahWho? Patrick Weekes @patrickweekes Look, we can't keep track of every little character. Mike Laidlaw @mike_LaidlawIs he the one who founded the Orzammar chantry? Patrick Weekes @patrickweekesI thought he owned one of the stores? Or she? It's a feminine-sounding name. Jo Berry @joanna_BerryNo, no, a solas is definitely a small pressure-suited alien prone to biotic apotheosis. Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrahis there an umlaut over the o like Sölas? Seems likely Sephard @sephard_Oh I think they meant Fen'Harel Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrahSounds made up Veronica Pena @gocomshukurselfPretty sure they're asking about a Bond flick. Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrah What is the smallest possible amount of Solas? Trolls, the lot of them. lol
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Post by NightSymphony on Sept 27, 2016 17:27:29 GMT
Man, just got an e-mail from the Bioware Store. They are coming out this a statue of Thane. It's so pretty...I want it!!! I need to win the lottery..lol.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 27, 2016 17:49:30 GMT
Hmmm.... Anyone remembers the codex from DA2 - The Pickled Apples Of Arlathan? At first it seems like a silly entry made for laughs, but in the context of what we know from DAI, it's actually pretty sad. I mean, think about it... if Genitivi - a contemporary human Thedosian with no special connection to ancient past - felt a sense of intense loss so sharp that it moved him to tears merely after tasting a tiny sliver of a preserved apple... just how much of a crushing loss Solas or Abelas must feel after Veilless wield was no more? Another things is though that Genitivi did indeed experiences a sense of loss, which seems to be indicating that he immediately missed more than just amazing taste. That carries some interesting implications. Well, it's said somewhere that Solas doesn't eat a whole lot. I don't think that's entirely because he can draw sustenance from the Fade... At least he apparently enjoys Orlesian pastries. Um.... I didn't just mean Solas and Abelas missing food, but the whole of their world. It's safe to assume that if a sliver of something so mundane as well-preserved pickled apples can rouse such strong emotions from a human who have never seen the wonders of Elvenhan, then the loss of more substantial; parts of it - heck, pretty much all of it - must've left a black hole of loss in souls of those ancient elves who have survived and saw the world lose pretty much all of its vibrancy...
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Post by phoray on Sept 27, 2016 18:07:07 GMT
Well, it's said somewhere that Solas doesn't eat a whole lot. I don't think that's entirely because he can draw sustenance from the Fade... At least he apparently enjoys Orlesian pastries. Um.... I didn't just mean Solas and Abelas missing food, but the whole of their world. It's safe to assume that if a sliver of something so mundane as well-preserved pickled apples can rouse such strong emotions from a human who have never seen the wonders of Elvenhan, then the loss of more substantial; parts of it - heck, pretty much all of it - must've left a black hole of loss in souls of those ancient elves who have survived and saw the world lose pretty much all of its vibrancy... You mean, they are the only ones left alive to remember it, anyway. With no veil, everyone was magical and had access to awesome apples. Over time, magic leaked away, apples became less great, but each generation of humans and elves and Qunari could only say things like, "I remember apples being better in my childhood." So, it's a loss for everyone, but only immortal elves who take long naps have the realm of experience to see the stark contrast. On that line of thought, it just makes me think that they'd be better off in the after life. It reminds me of Rose from the Legend of Dragoon; this world is not her world and it's time for her to move on (although I bawled for half an hour about her decision to die, and she wasn't even a bioware character.) But then I remember that "They should all let go and just die", in the most respectful way possible, includes a certain egg head and I'm in the wrong thread for such thoughts.
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Post by phoray on Sept 27, 2016 18:13:51 GMT
BEHOLD ALL SOLAS ROMANCERS! ALL OF YOUR LAVELLANS ARE WRONG! THEY SHOULD ALL BE LIKE THIS! You know, this reminds me. Right after my first play through, I was so mad at Solas. We'd just been friends, and I'd chosen the Redeem option, but I was still super mad. and I was like, " I should make the ugliest elf Inquisitor, and watch him fall for that mess. And point and laugh and laugh." Nearly did it too. But then realized I'd hate playing 20-80 hours of a game with an ugly Quiz just so I could laugh at Solas for 5 minutes of romance scenes.
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Post by Element Zero on Sept 27, 2016 19:22:11 GMT
Well, it's said somewhere that Solas doesn't eat a whole lot. I don't think that's entirely because he can draw sustenance from the Fade... At least he apparently enjoys Orlesian pastries. Um.... I didn't just mean Solas and Abelas missing food, but the whole of their world. It's safe to assume that if a sliver of something so mundane as well-preserved pickled apples can rouse such strong emotions from a human who have never seen the wonders of Elvenhan, then the loss of more substantial; parts of it - heck, pretty much all of it - must've left a black hole of loss in souls of those ancient elves who have survived and saw the world lose pretty much all of its vibrancy... I believe this, combined with the trauma of already having destroyed his own world once, is why Solas can believe his current plan is the correct path. He knows how the world should be, without the artificial construct he himself put into place. He knows perfectly well how greatly diminished the world now is. Few now living could argue with him, since they have no frame of reference. The two worlds do sound like apples and oranges; and this current world isn't the natural state of things. If it weren't for the millions of deaths he'd be causing, his plan to undo the Veil would seem like a kindness, as scary as it might be, initially.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 27, 2016 19:32:58 GMT
Um.... I didn't just mean Solas and Abelas missing food, but the whole of their world. It's safe to assume that if a sliver of something so mundane as well-preserved pickled apples can rouse such strong emotions from a human who have never seen the wonders of Elvenhan, then the loss of more substantial; parts of it - heck, pretty much all of it - must've left a black hole of loss in souls of those ancient elves who have survived and saw the world lose pretty much all of its vibrancy... I believe this, combined with the trauma of already having destroyed his own world once, is why Solas can believe his current plan is the correct path. He knows how the world should be, without the artificial construct he himself put into place. He knows perfectly well how greatly diminished the world now is. Few now living could argue with him, since they have no frame of reference. The two worlds do sound like apples and oranges; and this current world isn't the natural state of things. If it weren't for the millions of deaths he'd be causing, his plan to undo the Veil would seem like a kindness, as scary as it might be, initially.Isn't it? Though I have to say that it's a bit ironic that there are quite a few people viewing Solas as Satan incarnate, given that we live in parts of the world where a fairly large chunk of population believes that a chief deity of western culture has to come and literally wreak havoc on the world before it's reshaped back into Paradise.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Sept 27, 2016 20:42:04 GMT
I believe this, combined with the trauma of already having destroyed his own world once, is why Solas can believe his current plan is the correct path. He knows how the world should be, without the artificial construct he himself put into place. He knows perfectly well how greatly diminished the world now is. Few now living could argue with him, since they have no frame of reference. The two worlds do sound like apples and oranges; and this current world isn't the natural state of things. If it weren't for the millions of deaths he'd be causing, his plan to undo the Veil would seem like a kindness, as scary as it might be, initially.Isn't it? Though I have to say that it's a bit ironic that there are quite a few people viewing Solas as Satan incarnate, given that we live in parts of the world where a fairly large chunk of population believes that a chief deity of western culture has to come and literally wreak havoc on the world before it's reshaped back into Paradise. If you mean Christianity, God isn't the one wreaking havoc on the world in that scenario. Satan starts the fight, does the killing and the havoc, God just comes in at the end and trounces him.
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Post by Elessara on Sept 27, 2016 20:55:46 GMT
Isn't it? Though I have to say that it's a bit ironic that there are quite a few people viewing Solas as Satan incarnate, given that we live in parts of the world where a fairly large chunk of population believes that a chief deity of western culture has to come and literally wreak havoc on the world before it's reshaped back into Paradise. If you mean Christianity, God isn't the one wreaking havoc on the world in that scenario. Satan starts the fight, does the killing and the havoc, God just comes in at the end and trounces him. OMG .... give me a spoiler warning! Now you've just ruined the whole end of the world for me, thanks a lot!
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 27, 2016 21:12:57 GMT
Isn't it? Though I have to say that it's a bit ironic that there are quite a few people viewing Solas as Satan incarnate, given that we live in parts of the world where a fairly large chunk of population believes that a chief deity of western culture has to come and literally wreak havoc on the world before it's reshaped back into Paradise. If you mean Christianity, God isn't the one wreaking havoc on the world in that scenario. Satan starts the fight, does the killing and the havoc, God just comes in at the end and trounces him. I don't want to go into a theological debate here, but I'd like to point out that it depends on denomination and how each believes things would go during times of Armageddon. Catholics, for example, don't believe in Rapture (where God intentionally leaves behind people on mercy of Satan, who hasn't yet began wreaking havoc) and a lot of them believe that yes, the destruction of the world is ultimately on God - fully justified of course, because hey: Paradise. Also: God is creator of everything and is not just all-powerful, but also all-knowing and ultimately more powerful than the Big Bad - he created everything, which includes Satan and humanity and allowed for things to happen the way they did. Therefore, logically, he is directly responsible for everything that happened or is about to happen, in a form it happened.
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Post by phoray on Sept 27, 2016 21:25:16 GMT
If you mean Christianity, God isn't the one wreaking havoc on the world in that scenario. Satan starts the fight, does the killing and the havoc, God just comes in at the end and trounces him. I don't want to go into a theological debate here, but I'd like to point out that it depends on denomination and what they believe things would go during times of Armageddon. Catholics, for example, don't believe in Rapture (where God intentionally leaves behind people on mercy of Satan who haven't yet began wreaking havoc) and a lot of them believe that yes, the destruction of the world is ultimately on God - fully justified of course, because hey: Paradise. Also: God is creator of everything and is not just all-powerful, but also all-knowing and ultimately more powerful than the Big Bad - he created everything, which includes Satan and humanity and allowed for things to happen the way they did. Therefore, logically, he is directly responsible for everything that happened or is about to happen, in a form it happened. I'm atheist. and I know starting a theological debate cancels the not wanting to get into one. Respectfully, don't dooooo iiiitt.
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Post by Elessara on Sept 27, 2016 21:25:25 GMT
If you mean Christianity, God isn't the one wreaking havoc on the world in that scenario. Satan starts the fight, does the killing and the havoc, God just comes in at the end and trounces him. I don't want to go into a theological debate here, but I'd like to point out that it depends on denomination to believe how things would go during times of Armageddon. Catholics, for example, don't believe in Rapture (where God intentionally leaves behind people on mercy of Satan who haven't yet began wreaking havoc) and a lot of them believe that yes, the destruction of the world is ultimately on God - fully justified of course, because hey: Paradise. Also: God is creator of everything and is not just all-powerful, but also all-knowing and ultimately more powerful than the Big Bad - he created everything, which includes Satan and humanity and allowed for things to happen the way they did. Therefore, logically, he is directly responsible for everything that happened or is about to happen, in a form it happened. I call hacks on God. He's just cheating.
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lovelykotori
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Post by lovelykotori on Sept 27, 2016 21:30:39 GMT
was trespasser not released for the xbox 360? honestly.. my bf gave me DAI as a present for the 360 .. i played only the prologe the loading times were too long and the graphics had so many problems that I sold the 360 version immediatly (and bougth the ps4 version instead). I have the money for the game but it's about principles. I don't wanna pay 40 euro for it >_< maybe 20 .. or I dunno. I will just wait and play on the ps4 until then. At the moment I play Origins for the first time on pc with mods and I am so happy. the 360 version was so annoying with the menu. also the game was only available in german and that really sucked the synchronisation is so bad. now with english +mods it's so much better if you edit her show me another screenshot but these two versions look really cool !! No. Both Decent and Trespasser did not come out for the PS3 or 360, so it's a good thing you sold your 360 copy and got it for PS4. I got my GOY copy during Christmas when it was on sale, it will probably be on sale again this year. Alright. I edited her..lol. Here is a new picture of her. I think I'm done for now. I'm pretty happy with the way she looks at the moment. That might change later, though. LOL at least I did that thing right yeah I guess I will wait until christmas. two and a half months to go I guess I can wait. how does this statue of Thane look like? price? picture? ah and she looks even prettier!!
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 27, 2016 21:47:05 GMT
I don't want to go into a theological debate here, but I'd like to point out that it depends on denomination to believe how things would go during times of Armageddon. Catholics, for example, don't believe in Rapture (where God intentionally leaves behind people on mercy of Satan who haven't yet began wreaking havoc) and a lot of them believe that yes, the destruction of the world is ultimately on God - fully justified of course, because hey: Paradise. Also: God is creator of everything and is not just all-powerful, but also all-knowing and ultimately more powerful than the Big Bad - he created everything, which includes Satan and humanity and allowed for things to happen the way they did. Therefore, logically, he is directly responsible for everything that happened or is about to happen, in a form it happened. I call hacks on God. He's just cheating. I bet he's using god mode.
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NightSymphony
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Post by NightSymphony on Sept 27, 2016 22:08:47 GMT
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