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Post by CapricornSun on Oct 9, 2016 20:24:57 GMT
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Post by mechalynx on Oct 9, 2016 21:27:34 GMT
But... it is a human mess? Like I'm not commenting on most of the banter, just that one line. It wasn't Solas who made the "human mess" comment - or even, technically, the human mess. Solas might carry some blame for the Breach in the way that you might be responsible if you sell a gun to a murderer - but the murderer's still the one who pulled the trigger. They deserve way more blame than you. I'll never understand why people discount Corypheus' agency in causing the Breach. Yeah, Solas was hideously irresponsible, and he deserves some flak for that. But the whole blowing up the temple/killing hundreds of people including the Divine/causing demon-spewing rifts in reality was all Cory's doing. I have to disagree with you there. What Solas did was more like giving a trigger happy maniac nuclear launch codes and keeping his fingers crossed. Remember, he was banking on Corypheus using the orb and, after Corypheus's death, following up with a complete destruction of the continent (at the very least). Do you really think Solas assumed that Corypheus would slink off someplace quiet and minimize the casualties? No, it happened more or less according to his plan, he simply didn't care as all those pesky mortals would be dead soon anyway. Also, while the Mage rebellion would have happened no matter what, let's not forget that it was the Tethras brothers who brought back the red lyrium statue from the Deep Roads. One can argue that Meredith would have gone off the deep end anyway and her insanity had little effect on Anders' actions, but Varric's guilt trip is not without reason. Plus the whole breeaking Corypheus out of his ancient prison thing... I really like this, you know. The events of DAI are not due to one single thing, but a whole bunch of things going pear-shaped at exactly the wrong time with all of Thedas bearing the blame, instead of one single faction. Come to think about it, the Inquisition should build Corypheus a statue. The man saw to that the world didn't end simply by the virtue of not dying when he was supposed to, twice. I'd at least send him a fruit basket.
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Post by mechalynx on Oct 9, 2016 21:39:55 GMT
Running around, saving Thedas and listening to party banter... Varric and Solas are pretty racist, which is something I can see from Solas, but was surprised to get from Varric. I had a headcanon where Varric gave Solas a look and a head shake after the But today I heard a new banter with these gems Wow, Varric, really? Also, Solas? Whose mess? Too bad the Inky doesn't get the option of ripping into them right then and there. My current Inquisitors are working their asses off trying unite all people and races against a serous threat, and to have two of her closest dropping comments like these. Feel like writing a short where the Inquisitor promptly turns around, heads back to the nearest camp and kicks those two out of the party, grounding them until after the party at Halamshiral. .... It's called a joke. There might be an element of bitterness or what else, but you can hear it from the tone of their voice that they've been mostly joking - and in case Cassandra is in the party, tease her a little bit. I'm aware of the lightheartedness of their tone, but that particular banter came at a pretty sensitive point in my latest playthrough and the fact that there are other comments in the same vein. I am burdened with knowing way too much about the plot. I simply wish there was a choice to counter with a "No, everybody fucked up and now I'm dealing with it."
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Oct 9, 2016 23:04:17 GMT
It's so cute to see the times Solas kinda slips up a bit! I was replaying the first conversations you have with him (not my canon quizzy) and my quizzy says something along the lines of how he didn't choose to become the herald but he would try his best, to which Solas answers favorably. Our quizzy looks a bit disbelieving, so Solas says "You think I'm mocking you? This age has made people so cynical". Oooops Solas, surely not a fatal slip-up, but a slip-up nonetheless!
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Post by ellawyn on Oct 9, 2016 23:16:31 GMT
But... it is a human mess? Like I'm not commenting on most of the banter, just that one line. It wasn't Solas who made the "human mess" comment - or even, technically, the human mess. Solas might carry some blame for the Breach in the way that you might be responsible if you sell a gun to a murderer - but the murderer's still the one who pulled the trigger. They deserve way more blame than you. I'll never understand why people discount Corypheus' agency in causing the Breach. Yeah, Solas was hideously irresponsible, and he deserves some flak for that. But the whole blowing up the temple/killing hundreds of people including the Divine/causing demon-spewing rifts in reality was all Cory's doing. I have to disagree with you there. What Solas did was more like giving a trigger happy maniac nuclear launch codes and keeping his fingers crossed. Remember, he was banking on Corypheus using the orb and, after Corypheus's death, following up with a complete destruction of the continent (at the very least). Do you really think Solas assumed that Corypheus would slink off someplace quiet and minimize the casualties? No, it happened more or less according to his plan, he simply didn't care as all those pesky mortals would be dead soon anyway. Also, while the Mage rebellion would have happened no matter what, let's not forget that it was the Tethras brothers who brought back the red lyrium statue from the Deep Roads. One can argue that Meredith would have gone off the deep end anyway and her insanity had little effect on Anders' actions, but Varric's guilt trip is not without reason. Plus the whole breeaking Corypheus out of his ancient prison thing... I really like this, you know. The events of DAI are not due to one single thing, but a whole bunch of things going pear-shaped at exactly the wrong time with all of Thedas bearing the blame, instead of one single faction. Come to think about it, the Inquisition should build Corypheus a statue. The man saw to that the world didn't end simply by the virtue of not dying when he was supposed to, twice. I'd at least send him a fruit basket. Except Solas very clearly cared about what happened to those people. The entire reason he's even in Inquisition - as opposed to high-tailing it as quick as he could and going after Cory himself while the Breach festers - is because he cared about the damage it was causing and cared about fixing it. He nearly tells you that himself during the first one-on-one conversation you have with him. He says something along the lines of "I will stay, at least until the Breach is fixed." It's a pretty clear indication that he was wavering between priorities - trying to decide if he should abandon the mortal world to it's fate or try to help them before returning to his own path. Saying that he was banking on the Breach, and didn't care about the people who harmed by it, completely ignores his entire presence in the game prior to the attack on Haven. Because it was only after said attack that it became clear that sticking with the Inquisiton would be his best bet of retrieving the Orb. But before that - he was working alone in a situation where, as an elven apostate, he could've been executed at any moment - or something even worse if his identity was revealed - all to help fix the mistake he feels he made. All to help the people who hurt by it. Even on low-approval runs, he clearly cares to some extent. And the events very clearly didn't go according to Solas' plan. He didn't expect Corypheus to live. He didn't expect Corypheus to open the Breach. As for Varric - he's almost wholly innocent in the matter of the Red Lyrium Idol. All he did was find it. It was his brother who immediately turned on him, who locked him and Hawke in the Deep Roads, who went back to the surface and gave it to Meredith. Varric had nothing to do with any of that. Varric and Solas might have contributed something to the then-current situation (Solas perhaps a bit more so.) But regardless, neither of them are more to blame as much as Cory.
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Post by Auirel on Oct 10, 2016 0:49:21 GMT
.... It's called a joke. There might be an element of bitterness or what else, but you can hear it from the tone of their voice that they've been mostly joking - and in case Cassandra is in the party, tease her a little bit. I'm aware of the lightheartedness of their tone, but that particular banter came at a pretty sensitive point in my latest playthrough and the fact that there are other comments in the same vein. I am burdened with knowing way too much about the plot. I simply wish there was a choice to counter with a "No, everybody fucked up and now I'm dealing with it." I can see how that banter could come up at insensitive time. I think if we were actually there in Thedas and Varric and Solas weren't running on scripts that required them to have banter every 15 minutes then they wouldn't have made the joke when they did.
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Post by Elessara on Oct 10, 2016 0:55:20 GMT
I have to disagree with you there. What Solas did was more like giving a trigger happy maniac nuclear launch codes and keeping his fingers crossed. Remember, he was banking on Corypheus using the orb and, after Corypheus's death, following up with a complete destruction of the continent (at the very least). Do you really think Solas assumed that Corypheus would slink off someplace quiet and minimize the casualties? No, it happened more or less according to his plan, he simply didn't care as all those pesky mortals would be dead soon anyway. Also, while the Mage rebellion would have happened no matter what, let's not forget that it was the Tethras brothers who brought back the red lyrium statue from the Deep Roads. One can argue that Meredith would have gone off the deep end anyway and her insanity had little effect on Anders' actions, but Varric's guilt trip is not without reason. Plus the whole breeaking Corypheus out of his ancient prison thing... I really like this, you know. The events of DAI are not due to one single thing, but a whole bunch of things going pear-shaped at exactly the wrong time with all of Thedas bearing the blame, instead of one single faction. Come to think about it, the Inquisition should build Corypheus a statue. The man saw to that the world didn't end simply by the virtue of not dying when he was supposed to, twice. I'd at least send him a fruit basket. Except Solas very clearly cared about what happened to those people. The entire reason he's even in Inquisition - as opposed to high-tailing it as quick as he could and going after Cory himself while the Breach festers - is because he cared about the damage it was causing and cared about fixing it. He nearly tells you that himself during the first one-on-one conversation you have with him. He says something along the lines of "I will stay, at least until the Breach is fixed." It's a pretty clear indication that he was wavering between priorities - trying to decide if he should abandon the mortal world to it's fate or try to help them before returning to his own path. Saying that he was banking on the Breach, and didn't care about the people who harmed by it, completely ignores his entire presence in the game prior to the attack on Haven. Because it was only after said attack that it became clear that sticking with the Inquisiton would be his best bet of retrieving the Orb. But before that - he was working alone in a situation where, as an elven apostate, he could've been executed at any moment - or something even worse if his identity was revealed - all to help fix the mistake he feels he made. All to help the people who hurt by it. Even on low-approval runs, he clearly cares to some extent. And the events very clearly didn't go according to Solas' plan. He didn't expect Corypheus to live. He didn't expect Corypheus to open the Breach. As for Varric - he's almost wholly innocent in the matter of the Red Lyrium Idol. All he did was find it. It was his brother who immediately turned on him, who locked him and Hawke in the Deep Roads, who went back to the surface and gave it to Meredith. Varric had nothing to do with any of that. Varric and Solas might have contributed something to the then-current situation (Solas perhaps a bit more so.) But regardless, neither of them are more to blame as much as Cory. I mostly agree with ellawyn here because otherwise you keep passing along the blame. Might just as well blame Varric's parents for going to the surface because if they hadn't then Varric wouldn't have been born there and wouldn't have gone on the expedition to the Deep Roads and found the red lyrium idol. Or the Evanuris for being power hungry jerks and enslaving the elven people and murdering Mythal because if they hadn't done that then Solas wouldn't have put up the Veil. Actually, you know what? I blame whoever/whatever created the world to begin with. If that bastard hadn't created everything then none of this would have happened at all. I've also been thinking that the Breach itself may very well have been partially the Inquisitor's fault as we don't know what would have happened if Cory hadn't been interrupted. There might not even have been that huge explosion if the Inq hadn't stepped in and picked up the orb.
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Post by Elessara on Oct 10, 2016 0:56:57 GMT
I'm aware of the lightheartedness of their tone, but that particular banter came at a pretty sensitive point in my latest playthrough and the fact that there are other comments in the same vein. I am burdened with knowing way too much about the plot. I simply wish there was a choice to counter with a "No, everybody fucked up and now I'm dealing with it." I can see how that banter could come up at insensitive time. I think if we were actually there in Thedas and Varric and Solas weren't running on scripts that required them to have banter every 15 minutes then they wouldn't have made the joke when they did. Personally I'm of the opinion that particular piece of banter shouldn't trigger if Cassandra isn't in the group. If she's not there it does sound quite racist. If she IS there it sounds like Varric and Solas are just needling her. And Varric really isn't that racist. He does, however, like picking on Cassandra.
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Post by ellawyn on Oct 10, 2016 2:08:20 GMT
I mostly agree with ellawyn here because otherwise you keep passing along the blame. Might just as well blame Varric's parents for going to the surface because if they hadn't then Varric wouldn't have been born there and wouldn't have gone on the expedition to the Deep Roads and found the red lyrium idol. Or the Evanuris for being power hungry jerks and enslaving the elven people and murdering Mythal because if they hadn't done that then Solas wouldn't have put up the Veil. Actually, you know what? I blame whoever/whatever created the world to begin with. If that bastard hadn't created everything then none of this would have happened at all. I've also been thinking that the Breach itself may very well have been partially the Inquisitor's fault as we don't know what would have happened if Cory hadn't been interrupted. There might not even have been that huge explosion if the Inq hadn't stepped in and picked up the orb. On that last comment - I was always under the impression that the Breach was an accident on all sides. Solas didn't know it would happen. Cory didn't mean for it to happen. And the Inquisitor, of course, was literally some rando bystander who just stumbled in and picked up a pretty rock, so they can't be blamed either. I don't think anyone intended it to happen. I suppose Cory's plan, had it succeeded, wouldn't have been too much different from Solas' as far as what he does. Cory just wanted in the Fade, too. Nothing about his goal suggested that he wanted to make the Breach, just enter the Golden City.
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Post by Elessara on Oct 10, 2016 3:04:09 GMT
I mostly agree with ellawyn here because otherwise you keep passing along the blame. Might just as well blame Varric's parents for going to the surface because if they hadn't then Varric wouldn't have been born there and wouldn't have gone on the expedition to the Deep Roads and found the red lyrium idol. Or the Evanuris for being power hungry jerks and enslaving the elven people and murdering Mythal because if they hadn't done that then Solas wouldn't have put up the Veil. Actually, you know what? I blame whoever/whatever created the world to begin with. If that bastard hadn't created everything then none of this would have happened at all. I've also been thinking that the Breach itself may very well have been partially the Inquisitor's fault as we don't know what would have happened if Cory hadn't been interrupted. There might not even have been that huge explosion if the Inq hadn't stepped in and picked up the orb. On that last comment - I was always under the impression that the Breach was an accident on all sides. Solas didn't know it would happen. Cory didn't mean for it to happen. And the Inquisitor, of course, was literally some rando bystander who just stumbled in and picked up a pretty rock, so they can't be blamed either. I don't think anyone intended it to happen. I suppose Cory's plan, had it succeeded, wouldn't have been too much different from Solas' as far as what he does. Cory just wanted in the Fade, too. Nothing about his goal suggested that he wanted to make the Breach, just enter the Golden City. As an aside, that's my favorite Douglas Adams quote.
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 10, 2016 3:48:53 GMT
I can see how that banter could come up at insensitive time. I think if we were actually there in Thedas and Varric and Solas weren't running on scripts that required them to have banter every 15 minutes then they wouldn't have made the joke when they did. Personally I'm of the opinion that particular piece of banter shouldn't trigger if Cassandra isn't in the group. If she's not there it does sound quite racist. If she IS there it sounds like Varric and Solas are just needling her. And Varric really isn't that racist. He does, however, like picking on Cassandra. Personally I am against a tendency to treat every critical opinion about any group of people implies racism or xenophobia. I'm not saying that there aren't specific comments or criticisms or attitudes that are implicitly racist or at the very least unfair, but I'm against going against anything that is or seems critical, no matter how mild or vague. We may have reservations about Solas's feelings about modern Thedosians or humans in particular due to his history, status in the story, plans and own admitted feelings, but it's hard to accuse Varric of being racist. ... And let's face it, if every critical opinion about a group of people is racist then Cassandra is racist against humans too, apparently: Cassandra: Solas, have you always lived alone? Out in the wilderness, as an apostate? Solas: For the most part. Cassandra: Would that not be incredibly trying? Solas: People can be trying, mankind most of all.Cassandra: That... is an excellent point.Or Leliana. A bleeding heart who cares about everybody even if we harden her, tells us that most modern Thedosians are sheep when Inquisitor points out (during conversation about being chosen to be Divine) that she doesn't have much faith in Thedosians, to which she admits... Then there's Dorian who keeps b*tching about Tevinter, but we know that he is also deeply patriotic, and most of his criticism stem from the fact that he cares very deeply about his nation's future.
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CapricornSun
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Post by CapricornSun on Oct 10, 2016 4:25:52 GMT
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Post by forgetmenot on Oct 10, 2016 8:13:56 GMT
I think the banter between Varric and Solas is said in jest. I wouldn't say Varric is racist, he considers Hawke to be his best friend and he's human. Solas is just grumpy and guilt ridden and doesn't consider anything in the current state of the world "real". Speaking of banter... I tend to have a set of favourite companions which i take everywhere but on current play through I'm making sure i mix it up a bit. Obviously Solas is a constant in the party no matter what but I took Sera and Vivienne for a trip around hinterlands and i have to say it was so funny! Sera was just... Sera.. But Viv was being patronising towards Solas saying that she hopes they don't run into anything past his experience level and he said something like "I shall try my best in my own fumbling way. We should be so thankful that you were there to help stop the breach from growing in Haven. Oh wait.. That wasn't you. That was me." My god, could i possibly love this stupid elf any more than i already do. :eek:
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Post by Tanyara on Oct 10, 2016 9:06:37 GMT
I just had a thought concerning spirits: can they get the blight? I guess the Profane might be considered but weren't they more like rock wraiths?
Maybe the blight makes it easier for a spirit to become a demon? I had this thought while thinking about Anders. Did Justice turning into Vengeance have something to do with Anders being a Warden or was it just his fixation on mage oppression that twisted Justice's nature? Or maybe a bit of both: that the blight in Anders made Justice (who usually is quite a strong spirit I think, he handled corpse possession and the real world pretty well) more easily influenced. I seem to remember the word "corruption" being used in context of both spirit->demon and healthy->blighted (maybe just coincidence?)
If the blight really affects spirits then it would give another reason for Solas to abhor the blight since it would turn all his spirit friends into demons.
I have also wondered if Vengeance is considered a spirit or a demon...
Sorry for the mish-mash of random thoughts^^
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Post by Auirel on Oct 10, 2016 10:22:15 GMT
I just had a thought concerning spirits: can they get the blight? I guess the Profane might be considered but weren't they more like rock wraiths? Maybe the blight makes it easier for a spirit to become a demon? I had this thought while thinking about Anders. Did Justice turning into Vengeance have something to do with Anders being a Warden or was it just his fixation on mage oppression that twisted Justice's nature? Or maybe a bit of both: that the blight in Anders made Justice (who usually is quite a strong spirit I think, he handled corpse possession and the real world pretty well) more easily influenced. I seem to remember the word "corruption" being used in context of both spirit->demon and healthy->blighted (maybe just coincidence?) If the blight really affects spirits then it would give another reason for Solas to abhor the blight since it would turn all his spirit friends into demons. I have also wondered if Vengeance is considered a spirit or a demon... Sorry for the mish-mash of random thoughts^^ I don't think we've ever gotten a concrete answer about whether the Blight can taint spirits. However David Gaider was asked a similar question in 2012 about Justice and how it might affect the Calling. Link to the whole interview -> swooping-is-bad.livejournal.com/1286233.htmlTUK: Can I ask, what effect if any Anders being merged with Justice is going to have on his Calling? DG: ...There were some plans to address that but in the end it became very complicated. I think there are a couple possibilities. One is that the spirit within Anders can affect the level of his corruption, so it may delay or remove the necessity for his Calling altogether. Either that or at some point the corruption within Anders is going to corrupt the spirit. I think those are the two most likely outcomes. I'm not going to say which of those we prefer, because Anders can survive DA2 so therefore there's a possibility that we may need him in the future.A spirit becoming Blighted is a possibility, but it either doesn't happen or is extremely rare in-universe which suggests to me that the circumstances would have to be exceptional for that to happen. If a spirit did become Blighted, its possible it might become a demon, the call of the Old Gods might conflict with its purpose enough to corrupt it into a demon. As for Justice becoming Vengeance, Solas does say that a spirit becomes a demon if it is denied its purpose, if it encounters a mage in the Fade that expects it to be a demon, or if it is drawn into the waking world without enough will. Justice seems to fit the first case, it had more than enough will to exist in the world as Justice and was not drawn through unwilling, it sought out the waking world. Spirits are attracted to people and places that are devoid of it. Compassion is attracted to pain and suffering, and Justice is attracted to injustice. Neither do they have much in the way of patience. So when Justice could not help the mages of Kirkwall in a timely manner, it was corrupted into Vengeance, a demon.
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Post by ellawyn on Oct 10, 2016 10:30:25 GMT
I just had a thought concerning spirits: can they get the blight? I guess the Profane might be considered but weren't they more like rock wraiths? Maybe the blight makes it easier for a spirit to become a demon? I had this thought while thinking about Anders. Did Justice turning into Vengeance have something to do with Anders being a Warden or was it just his fixation on mage oppression that twisted Justice's nature? Or maybe a bit of both: that the blight in Anders made Justice (who usually is quite a strong spirit I think, he handled corpse possession and the real world pretty well) more easily influenced. I seem to remember the word "corruption" being used in context of both spirit->demon and healthy->blighted (maybe just coincidence?) If the blight really affects spirits then it would give another reason for Solas to abhor the blight since it would turn all his spirit friends into demons. I have also wondered if Vengeance is considered a spirit or a demon... Sorry for the mish-mash of random thoughts^^ Waaaaay back when Origins was the only DA game in existence, I seem to recall one of the devs (Gaider?) saying that demons don't really know what the Taint is and don't really know what to make of it, so it's something they steer very clear of. I think it was also said that darkspawn don't go to the Fade when they sleep (If they sleep) and as such demons can't really "see" them, until they possess someone themselves. so I don't think a demon could possess a darkspawn. Although, I don't think trees go to the Fade either, but we saw plenty of demon-possessed trees in Origins (Not that the next two games seem to remember that. Have we even seen any sylvans since Awakening?) but as I recall the explanation for them was that demons came through/were pulled through small rifts in the Veil and possessed the first thing they could find, hence sylvans and, later on, Justice (Why wasn't that in Inquisition, exactly? We saw a lot of random spirits floating around but not a lot of spirits possessing things because it was the best they could find.). So I guess it's theoretically possible for a spirit to possess a darkspawn, if they found themselves in a similar situation. I wonder what that would be like... Anyway, that's the best I can remember off the top of my head, and it doesn't really answer the question of whether or not spirits can't get the Taint, rather than simply possess something with the Taint. I'm inclined to say no, they can't since what we've seen of the Blight has been mostly physical in nature. It corrupts matter. It twists flesh. It supposedly murders things so well that even bacteria cannot grow (And thus corpses do not decay as they typically would.) I suppose it also drives people insane, but that's the closest I can see to it having any spiritual effects. Otherwise it seems mainly focused on the physical realm. Which makes some sort of sense if the Blight came from Titans, who seem to be the polar opposite of spirits. Though on the other hand, the Blight came from the Fade, so clearly something's infected there, which shouldn't be possible if spirits/the Fade were immune. Hmm. I suppose it might simply turn spirits into demons, if they can be effected. But jeez, it seems like spirits turn into demons at the drop of a hat, so that doesn't seem like a reason to hate the Blight in particular so much as the modern world making it too easy for spirits to corrupt in general. To sum up what I'm trying to say - hell if I know. On another note, were the Profane just rock wraiths? Or rather, do we know what rock wraiths really are? I seem to recall the talking one was a Spirit of Hunger, but I thought we didn't know what the Profane in general were. It's been a long time since I played DA2, though. According to the wiki, rock wraiths are dwarven spirits that were rejected by the Stone - but I believe that as well as I believe anything the Chantry says. Supposedly they "feast on the gods" (Eat lyrium?) and said lyrium gives them a connection to the Fade, hence why they can be possessed. Interesting! I wonder if that means Titans can be possessed. The wiki also likens them to the forgotten spirits like what we saw in the Thaigs in Origins - and what was up with those anyway? Can dwarven spirits be rejected by the Stone - er, Titans, I guess? Hmm. ...What would happen if you fed a dwarf lyrium? Lots of lyrium? I remember that one dude from Origins who mined lyrium for a living and was driven a bit loopy by it, but if what the wiki appears to be suggesting is true, wraiths are dwarves who, for whatever reason, ate lyrium. So rock wraiths are dwarven wendigos. Shit. Would that also make them like little baby Titans? Dammit BioWare I need answers.
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Post by Sifr on Oct 11, 2016 2:32:02 GMT
Waaaaay back when Origins was the only DA game in existence, I seem to recall one of the devs (Gaider?) saying that demons don't really know what the Taint is and don't really know what to make of it, so it's something they steer very clear of. I think it was also said that darkspawn don't go to the Fade when they sleep (If they sleep) and as such demons can't really "see" them, until they possess someone themselves. so I don't think a demon could possess a darkspawn. Although, I don't think trees go to the Fade either, but we saw plenty of demon-possessed trees in Origins (Not that the next two games seem to remember that. Have we even seen any sylvans since Awakening?) but as I recall the explanation for them was that demons came through/were pulled through small rifts in the Veil and possessed the first thing they could find, hence sylvans and, later on, Justice (Why wasn't that in Inquisition, exactly? We saw a lot of random spirits floating around but not a lot of spirits possessing things because it was the best they could find.). So I guess it's theoretically possible for a spirit to possess a darkspawn, if they found themselves in a similar situation. I wonder what that would be like... In Return to Ostagar, there's a Genlock Necromancer who manages to raise the Ogre that Duncan killed during the battle, so it seems that spirits can possess Darkspawn. Darkspawn could be similar to Tranquil in that spirits can possess them, but have no reason to want to do so normally. Instead they have to be lured into possessing a host they don't want, much like Pharamond did when he got himself possessed to break his Tranquility. We know that Blood Mages, Mortalitasi and Necromancers are capable of binding spirits into vessels, so the Genlock Necromancer in RTO may have done the same to reanimate the dead Ogre. The presence of the darkspawn taint doesn't seem to prevent possession. Anders, the corpse of Sophia Dryden and the other undead Wardens at Soldier's Peak, as well as the Revenant in Descent that was once Warden Ailsa, all show that Wardens (and their corpses) can be possessed. That being said, Wardens are technically ghouls, rather than "true" Darkspawn, so that might be the reason for why are more susceptible to possession. It is interesting that we've never seen an example of a demon possessing living Darkspawn and even undead Darkspawn seem to be extremely rare. Seems far too deliberate to be a coincidence, so my bet is we'll get a major lore bombshell explaining precisely why, at some point down the line?
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 11, 2016 4:16:33 GMT
Waaaaay back when Origins was the only DA game in existence, I seem to recall one of the devs (Gaider?) saying that demons don't really know what the Taint is and don't really know what to make of it, so it's something they steer very clear of. I think it was also said that darkspawn don't go to the Fade when they sleep (If they sleep) and as such demons can't really "see" them, until they possess someone themselves. so I don't think a demon could possess a darkspawn. Although, I don't think trees go to the Fade either, but we saw plenty of demon-possessed trees in Origins (Not that the next two games seem to remember that. Have we even seen any sylvans since Awakening?) but as I recall the explanation for them was that demons came through/were pulled through small rifts in the Veil and possessed the first thing they could find, hence sylvans and, later on, Justice (Why wasn't that in Inquisition, exactly? We saw a lot of random spirits floating around but not a lot of spirits possessing things because it was the best they could find.). So I guess it's theoretically possible for a spirit to possess a darkspawn, if they found themselves in a similar situation. I wonder what that would be like... In Return to Ostagar, there's a Genlock Necromancer who manages to raise the Ogre that Duncan killed during the battle, so it seems that spirits can possess Darkspawn. ...That's assuming that whatever has possess the fallen ogre was a spirit. It doesn't have to be - it could as well be the Taint, especially that... well... this is what it basically does. It infects and is so aggressive that eventually it possesses the body, turning infected people into ghouls.
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Post by CapricornSun on Oct 11, 2016 5:22:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2016 7:12:21 GMT
Thought I'd share this song here since it does remind me Lavellan's relationship with Solas. Lavellan had gotten understandably suspicious of Solas after that court intrigue stuff and now after the events of the Temple of Mythal where Abelas recognized him as an elf but not her, she is certain that something is up. So she decides to get the truth out of him the best way she can think of...
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Post by Panda on Oct 11, 2016 7:39:51 GMT
Waaaaay back when Origins was the only DA game in existence, I seem to recall one of the devs (Gaider?) saying that demons don't really know what the Taint is and don't really know what to make of it, so it's something they steer very clear of. I think it was also said that darkspawn don't go to the Fade when they sleep (If they sleep) and as such demons can't really "see" them, until they possess someone themselves. so I don't think a demon could possess a darkspawn. Although, I don't think trees go to the Fade either, but we saw plenty of demon-possessed trees in Origins (Not that the next two games seem to remember that. Have we even seen any sylvans since Awakening?) but as I recall the explanation for them was that demons came through/were pulled through small rifts in the Veil and possessed the first thing they could find, hence sylvans and, later on, Justice (Why wasn't that in Inquisition, exactly? We saw a lot of random spirits floating around but not a lot of spirits possessing things because it was the best they could find.). So I guess it's theoretically possible for a spirit to possess a darkspawn, if they found themselves in a similar situation. I wonder what that would be like... In Return to Ostagar, there's a Genlock Necromancer who manages to raise the Ogre that Duncan killed during the battle, so it seems that spirits can possess Darkspawn. Darkspawn could be similar to Tranquil in that spirits can possess them, but have no reason to want to do so normally. Instead they have to be lured into possessing a host they don't want, much like Pharamond did when he got himself possessed to break his Tranquility. We know that Blood Mages, Mortalitasi and Necromancers are capable of binding spirits into vessels, so the Genlock Necromancer in RTO may have done the same to reanimate the dead Ogre. The presence of the darkspawn taint doesn't seem to prevent possession. Anders, the corpse of Sophia Dryden and the other undead Wardens at Soldier's Peak, as well as the Revenant in Descent that was once Warden Ailsa, all show that Wardens (and their corpses) can be possessed. That being said, Wardens are technically ghouls, rather than "true" Darkspawn, so that might be the reason for why are more susceptible to possession. It is interesting that we've never seen an example of a demon possessing living Darkspawn and even undead Darkspawn seem to be extremely rare. Seems far too deliberate to be a coincidence, so my bet is we'll get a major lore bombshell explaining precisely why, at some point down the line? Huh! Darkspawn being tranquil-like is quite interesting thought. I mean them being something similar to tranquil would make sense when thinking of the Architect and darkspawn he has awaken. It is bit like tranquils whose tranquility has been reversed, they have overbearing emotions at start and their own desires to follow just like other sentient beings. Thought it seems to be bond to Archdemons that made them tranquil like not being cut from the fade, since many darkspawn can use magic. I'm sorry that I kind of hijacked this with my own thoughts, but I just love the Architect and awakened darkspawn stuff (I'm weird like that) so made me thinking.
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Post by Tanyara on Oct 11, 2016 9:21:55 GMT
Waaaaay back when Origins was the only DA game in existence, I seem to recall one of the devs (Gaider?) saying that demons don't really know what the Taint is and don't really know what to make of it, so it's something they steer very clear of. I think it was also said that darkspawn don't go to the Fade when they sleep (If they sleep) and as such demons can't really "see" them, until they possess someone themselves. so I don't think a demon could possess a darkspawn. Although, I don't think trees go to the Fade either, but we saw plenty of demon-possessed trees in Origins (Not that the next two games seem to remember that. Have we even seen any sylvans since Awakening?) but as I recall the explanation for them was that demons came through/were pulled through small rifts in the Veil and possessed the first thing they could find, hence sylvans and, later on, Justice (Why wasn't that in Inquisition, exactly? We saw a lot of random spirits floating around but not a lot of spirits possessing things because it was the best they could find.). So I guess it's theoretically possible for a spirit to possess a darkspawn, if they found themselves in a similar situation. I wonder what that would be like... Anyway, that's the best I can remember off the top of my head, and it doesn't really answer the question of whether or not spirits can't get the Taint, rather than simply possess something with the Taint. I'm inclined to say no, they can't since what we've seen of the Blight has been mostly physical in nature. It corrupts matter. It twists flesh. It supposedly murders things so well that even bacteria cannot grow (And thus corpses do not decay as they typically would.) I suppose it also drives people insane, but that's the closest I can see to it having any spiritual effects. Otherwise it seems mainly focused on the physical realm. Which makes some sort of sense if the Blight came from Titans, who seem to be the polar opposite of spirits. Though on the other hand, the Blight came from the Fade, so clearly something's infected there, which shouldn't be possible if spirits/the Fade were immune. Hmm. I suppose it might simply turn spirits into demons, if they can be effected. But jeez, it seems like spirits turn into demons at the drop of a hat, so that doesn't seem like a reason to hate the Blight in particular so much as the modern world making it too easy for spirits to corrupt in general. To sum up what I'm trying to say - hell if I know. On another note, were the Profane just rock wraiths? Or rather, do we know what rock wraiths really are? I seem to recall the talking one was a Spirit of Hunger, but I thought we didn't know what the Profane in general were. It's been a long time since I played DA2, though. According to the wiki, rock wraiths are dwarven spirits that were rejected by the Stone - but I believe that as well as I believe anything the Chantry says. Supposedly they "feast on the gods" (Eat lyrium?) and said lyrium gives them a connection to the Fade, hence why they can be possessed. Interesting! I wonder if that means Titans can be possessed. The wiki also likens them to the forgotten spirits like what we saw in the Thaigs in Origins - and what was up with those anyway? Can dwarven spirits be rejected by the Stone - er, Titans, I guess? Hmm. ...What would happen if you fed a dwarf lyrium? Lots of lyrium? I remember that one dude from Origins who mined lyrium for a living and was driven a bit loopy by it, but if what the wiki appears to be suggesting is true, wraiths are dwarves who, for whatever reason, ate lyrium. So rock wraiths are dwarven wendigos. Shit. Would that also make them like little baby Titans? Dammit BioWare I need answers. Yeah, I figured that spirits in spirit-form would't easily be tainted since they're incorporeal. Though I think it theoretically could happen, but I agree about it being mostly tied to "fleshy" creatures. But the interesting part is what happens when a spirit merges with a body, such as with Anders. Does it really have a body, even though it's shared (and therefore can be tainted) or is it just basically still incorporeal but inside a body/part of the mind (brain=corporeal, mind=incorporeal). The fact that the Blight came from the Fade could possibly be explained by flesh and spirit being more merged/synergetic before the Veil. So technically the Blight could still have its origin in corporeal things and not spirits? Or maybe the Blight is "designed" for pre-veil creatures that are mixes of spirit/flesh and therefore Solas had to separate them with the Veil, but it only managed to slow the process. Ugh, all this thinking gives me headaches ;P I might have mixed up some lore somewhere :S Possessed Titans would be...beyond bad
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Post by ellawyn on Oct 11, 2016 10:14:56 GMT
Yeah, I figured that spirits in spirit-form would't easily be tainted since they're incorporeal. Though I think it theoretically could happen, but I agree about it being mostly tied to "fleshy" creatures. But the interesting part is what happens when a spirit merges with a body, such as with Anders. Does it really have a body, even though it's shared (and therefore can be tainted) or is it just basically still incorporeal but inside a body/part of the mind (brain=corporeal, mind=incorporeal). The fact that the Blight came from the Fade could possibly be explained by flesh and spirit being more merged/synergetic before the Veil. So technically the Blight could still have its origin in corporeal things and not spirits? Or maybe the Blight is "designed" for pre-veil creatures that are mixes of spirit/flesh and therefore Solas had to separate them with the Veil, but it only managed to slow the process. Ugh, all this thinking gives me headaches ;P I might have mixed up some lore somewhere :S Possessed Titans would be...beyond bad I think the question of corporeal vs. incorporeal is different from abomination to abomination. On one hand, we get creatures like the abomination mooks we saw in Origins, who are just twisted piles of flesh. But then we also get abomination like Wynne and even Connor, who appear to suffer no changes to their physical form. (Well, until you confront Connor with the intention to kill. Then he turns into a purple-y succubus thing.) As such, I think there are sort of degrees of possession, or at the very least different types. I believe it was said somewhere that demons, when they possess mages, don't really leave the Fade. It's why, in order to cleanse Connor, you have to do the Harrowing ritual and go into the Fade yourself, because that's where the demon possessing him is. In such a situation, the possession's mostly or entirely incorporeal. The spirit/demon intervenes from the Fade. Their connection to the possessed's physical form is negligible - they're mostly just screwing with the possessed's head. In situations where there's a clear change to the physical form of the possessed, I think the spirit/demon has to leave the Fade and assert control over their subject. Instead of controlling the possessed's mind from afar, they live in and control the possessed's body as well. In such a situation they'd probably be more corporeal. Which, if we go with the theory that abominations are born from the corrupted desire of spirits to take bodies like Cole did, then it makes some amount of sense. The demon does not have enough strength to manifest their own form, so they hijack and warp whatever they can get their hands on. Like moving into a new apartment and changing all the furniture - except the apartment's old occupant is still there and probably calling the cops.
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Post by NightSymphony on Oct 11, 2016 16:25:44 GMT
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Post by mechalynx on Oct 11, 2016 18:54:09 GMT
Made myself sad today.
Took a much needed powernap, dreamt that Lavellan failed to stop Solas and the Veil fell and Solas' forces dragged her to Skyhold for judgement and when she arrived the palce was full of spirits. And the spirits did what spirits do, which is show all the memories from her happest time there. She saw all her fallen friends again.
Woke up crying.
Also, I made the mistake of telling my husband why I was sniffling into the pillow. He's still laughing V_V
Stupid hormones.
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