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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2016 22:18:08 GMT
Damn can't beat the Belive meme! NOO! link
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2016 23:15:11 GMT
It's fun reading through the DA hero threads that are floating around and got me to thinking about DA4's likely new protagonist. No brainer Solas is going to make an appearance but I'm wondering, say for instance our hero works for Solas or at least interacts with him in some complicity and it opens a romance arc with him. Would anyone be angry about it? Narratively speaking working around a Lavellan romance would be a nightmare and I'm not sure any excuse (i.e. time/distance/did something terrible/etc..) would make it fit in my book. It would be such a tricky thing to write in order for it to not clash/be out of character for Solas that I do not believe it could be done. However Opinion wise (assuming the above was moot and/or never romanced): Fuck yeah I'd be all for it depending on how the new protag was written and I know it's an unpopular opinion. I love the character they created for Solas, it is beautifully done but when I look at the Inquisitor/Lavellan, it's not there. The companions made Inquisition not the Inquisitor in my book. Without the friendships and romances I would not have been immersed in the game at all. It would have been 'this is a pretty game, grind levels, grind levels'. Wardens, Hawke; they were fleshed out characters that got you to have a connection with your PC. So when I look at Lavellan, I just see bland that poor Solas is stuck with (can I pair him with my Purple Hawke? No? aww... ). But I challenge ya'll to think Canon Inquisitors, not what we have to create in order to make Lavellan someone other than 'I'm the Diplomat' before voting Lavellan as the perfect match.
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Post by Elessara on Oct 18, 2016 23:59:06 GMT
It's fun reading through the DA hero threads that are floating around and got me to thinking about DA4's likely new protagonist. No brainer Solas is going to make an appearance but I'm wondering, say for instance our hero works for Solas or at least interacts with him in some complicity and it opens a romance arc with him. Would anyone be angry about it? Narratively speaking working around a Lavellan romance would be a nightmare and I'm not sure any excuse (i.e. time/distance/did something terrible/etc..) would make it fit in my book. It would be such a tricky thing to write in order for it to not clash/be out of character for Solas that I do not believe it could be done. However Opinion wise (assuming the above was moot and/or never romanced): Fuck yeah I'd be all for it depending on how the new protag was written and I know it's an unpopular opinion. I love the character they created for Solas, it is beautifully done but when I look at the Inquisitor/Lavellan, it's not there. The companions made Inquisition not the Inquisitor in my book. Without the friendships and romances I would not have been immersed in the game at all. It would have been 'this is a pretty game, grind levels, grind levels'. Wardens, Hawke; they were fleshed out characters that got you to have a connection with your PC. So when I look at Lavellan, I just see bland that poor Solas is stuck with (can I pair him with my Purple Hawke? No? aww... ). But I challenge ya'll to think Canon Inquisitors, not what we have to create in order to make Lavellan someone other than 'I'm the Diplomat' before voting Lavellan as the perfect match. The Warden and Hawke had families. That's pretty much the only difference as far as fleshed out goes. I honestly like the Inquisitor more because I can basically choose their own backstory. It's up to the player to flesh out the Inquisitor other than a general framework of (for example) "you're a dalish elf, a hunter/the First" and I generally prefer that. My Inquisitor is as interesting as I make them and that, I believe, is by design. The personalities of the Warden and Hawke are as fleshed out as the Inquisitor's. You can make snarky/funny comments on the Inquisitor, they just don't have a purple icon next to them. And whilst I did appreciate the whole "character tone" thing they had going with Hawke (especially as Hawke could join in with party banter) there were times when I kept thinking I wish Hawke would not say anything as what they just spouted off was not really what I would have chosen. At any rate, I don't see how they could make Solas a romance option again (imagine the complaints from the Solas haters about that) especially for games where a Lavellan romanced him. I just don't see him flip flopping in his affections that way. Not to mention he'd have to figure VERY prominently in the game for that to even be an option. Like, he'd have to at least be similar to an adviser position if not a companion again and at his power level, I'm not sure I see him returning as a companion. With a new protagonist, I honestly see the game going something more like this: New_Protagonist_004 deals with stuff going on in Tevinter, uncovers some plots by Solas, gets recruited by the Inquisitor. Obviously I could be wildly wrong but it's a direction I *could* see the game going.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 0:26:18 GMT
'Fleshed out' wasn't explained well, my bad. No I meant that during dialogues and when your actually playing your Inquisitor they are bland. And by 'bland' it was more towards commenting on an Inky being rather diplomatic no matter what was chosen as a dialogue option (fist, sad, hurt, etc.). It isn't the voice actors fault, more along the lines of how those responses are written. By my mentioning Hawke and Wardens, I was giving examples of characters who's dialogue was providing players with a character they could connect with (I would have made NWN, BG, PT references but was unsure of how many have actually delved into those games). Now, your mentioning backstories and having to make the Inquisitor interesting, that is exactly what I was getting at when I said, think canon. Canon only, pick any dialogue direction throughout the game--is the Inquisitor interesting? By themselves, are they the cool beans on par with the companions who they romanced?
Narrative wise I'm good with the Inquisitor coming back, there is a great story there for Solas.
But no, I wasn't particularly driving at anything by the post, just bringing something for the forum to chat about.
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Post by Elessara on Oct 19, 2016 0:28:12 GMT
To add to the current conversation, in regards to character creation, for me there is perhaps a fine line between too much and too little in the way of backstory/choices. As much as I enjoyed Deus Ex: Mankind Divided and the first Witcher game, that's in the direction of too much backstory, too little choices - and I do understand why the Witcher did that as the character was drawn from novels. The other direction would the the Elder Scrolls where all you have in the way of backstory is "you're a prisoner". That is far too little information for me. For DAO, I didn't mind the Warden as you had the origin story to become familiar with your character's family, history, etc. I didn't like DA2's method because with Hawke you had, "you have a brother and sister but we're going to kill one before you even care about them". The first time I played DA2 I believe I had a moment when I seriously thought, wait who's Carver? Oh right one of the guys in the beginning who died and they said he was Hawke's brother.
For me the Inquisitor hit a nice balance of not too much but not too little. You know where you're from and you know why you're at the Conclave; there's a general background to build from. The rest is entirely up to the player.
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Post by Elessara on Oct 19, 2016 0:43:32 GMT
'Fleshed out' wasn't explained well, my bad. No I meant that during dialogues and when your actually playing your Inquisitor they are bland. And by 'bland' it was more towards commenting on an Inky being rather diplomatic no matter what was chosen as a dialogue option (fist, sad, hurt, etc.). It isn't the voice actors fault, more along the lines of how those responses are written. By my mentioning Hawke and Wardens, I was giving examples of characters who's dialogue was providing players with a character they could connect with (I would have made NWN, BG, PT references but was unsure of how many have actually delved into those games). Now, your mentioning backstories and having to make the Inquisitor interesting, that is exactly what I was getting at when I said, think canon. Canon only, pick any dialogue direction throughout the game--is the Inquisitor interesting? By themselves, are they the cool beans on par with the companions who they romanced? Narrative wise I'm good with the Inquisitor coming back, there is a great story there for Solas. But no, I wasn't particularly driving at anything by the post, just bringing something for the forum to chat about. No worries and this is an interesting discussion. I hope others join in. I honestly don't think you CAN do that with the Inquisitor. The companions are more than just their dialogue choices, they have written personalities, interests, beliefs, hopes, dreams. For the Inquisitor, the player has to provide those themselves. The player has to invest the Inquisitor with a personality, with wishes, hopes, dreams. Without the player, the Inquisitor (as with any player driven character in most BioWare games) is just a limp marionette. Without a personality given by the player, the dialogue choices would always be ... empty? As to always sounding diplomatic no matter which conversation option is chosen ... I'm not really sure because I generally choose to be diplomatic. In the case of the Inquisitor, unless you're a human noble, learning diplomacy is pretty much the only way you're going to survive in a human world that hates mages. I mean, you could play your Inquisitor as being crass, rude, angry, etc. But that would certainly get you kicked out of Halamshiral and into a game over screen. Unfortunately, the situation that BioWare put the Inquisitor in (the character is basically a head of state) pretty much requires that the Inquisitor be diplomatic in many situations regardless of what the player might actually want to do. That is a bit too restrictive I think. I think going back to a smaller scale (as in, the player character is viewed as someone who can get things done but not necessarily the leader of a large organisation) would allow for more freedom to choose responses and reactions.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 0:48:58 GMT
It's fun reading through the DA hero threads that are floating around and got me to thinking about DA4's likely new protagonist. No brainer Solas is going to make an appearance but I'm wondering, say for instance our hero works for Solas or at least interacts with him in some complicity and it opens a romance arc with him. Would anyone be angry about it? I don't follow what you're driving at. Bold part . The rest was just my opinion on if that was the case
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Post by Elessara on Oct 19, 2016 0:53:35 GMT
I don't follow what you're driving at. Bold part . The rest was just my opinion on if that was the case Angry? No, that wouldn't anger me. In the case of a game where a Lavellan romanced Solas, it would confuse me. I'd imagine in that situation Solas would reject any advances. As I said before I don't really see him changing his affections quite so readily. But in a game where there wasn't a romanced Lavellan ... it would depend on how it was written. And you'd have to really be in contact with Solas quite frequently I'd think.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 0:58:25 GMT
No worries and this is an interesting discussion. I hope others join in. I honestly don't think you CAN do that with the Inquisitor. The companions are more than just their dialogue choices, they have written personalities, interests, beliefs, hopes, dreams. For the Inquisitor, the player has to provide those themselves. The player has to invest the Inquisitor with a personality, with wishes, hopes, dreams. Without the player, the Inquisitor (as with any player driven character in most BioWare games) is just a limp marionette. Without a personality given by the player, the dialogue choices would always be ... empty? As to always sounding diplomatic no matter which conversation option is chosen ... I'm not really sure because I generally choose to be diplomatic. In the case of the Inquisitor, unless you're a human noble, learning diplomacy is pretty much the only way you're going to survive in a human world that hates mages. I mean, you could play your Inquisitor as being crass, rude, angry, etc. But that would certainly get you kicked out of Halamshiral and into a game over screen. Unfortunately, the situation that BioWare put the Inquisitor in (the character is basically a head of state) pretty much requires that the Inquisitor be diplomatic in many situations regardless of what the player might actually want to do. That is a bit too restrictive I think. I think going back to a smaller scale (as in, the player character is viewed as someone who can get things done but not necessarily the leader of a large organisation) would allow for more freedom to choose responses and reactions. But that's the crux though isn't it, the player needs to invest those things in the Inquisitor. It didn't feel like I had to do those things with other DA heroes, picking whatever dialogue line built more and more on the character as you went, getting the player more and more in tune with the person they controlled and caring about what happened to them. So if for instance Inky was booted and new protag was brought in (and had a level of depth that I thought was badass), I would not be butt hurt in the least to romance them to Solas
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Post by Elessara on Oct 19, 2016 1:11:23 GMT
No worries and this is an interesting discussion. I hope others join in. I honestly don't think you CAN do that with the Inquisitor. The companions are more than just their dialogue choices, they have written personalities, interests, beliefs, hopes, dreams. For the Inquisitor, the player has to provide those themselves. The player has to invest the Inquisitor with a personality, with wishes, hopes, dreams. Without the player, the Inquisitor (as with any player driven character in most BioWare games) is just a limp marionette. Without a personality given by the player, the dialogue choices would always be ... empty? As to always sounding diplomatic no matter which conversation option is chosen ... I'm not really sure because I generally choose to be diplomatic. In the case of the Inquisitor, unless you're a human noble, learning diplomacy is pretty much the only way you're going to survive in a human world that hates mages. I mean, you could play your Inquisitor as being crass, rude, angry, etc. But that would certainly get you kicked out of Halamshiral and into a game over screen. Unfortunately, the situation that BioWare put the Inquisitor in (the character is basically a head of state) pretty much requires that the Inquisitor be diplomatic in many situations regardless of what the player might actually want to do. That is a bit too restrictive I think. I think going back to a smaller scale (as in, the player character is viewed as someone who can get things done but not necessarily the leader of a large organisation) would allow for more freedom to choose responses and reactions. But that's the crux though isn't it, the player needs to invest those things in the Inquisitor. It didn't feel like I had to do those things with other DA heroes, picking whatever dialogue line built more and more on the character as you went, getting the player more and more in tune with the person they controlled and caring about what happened to them. So if for instance Inky was booted and new protag was brought in (and had a level of depth that I thought was badass), I would not be butt hurt in the least to romance them to Solas I would actually suggest that you had to project even MORE into the Warden than the Inquisitor. The lack of voice acting allowed for more freedom in dialogue choices but the player had to provide tone. And the general lack of facial expressions made me refer to my Warden as Stoneface. Sure, there was a smile here or there, maybe a sad face but usually the Warden had no facial expression at all. And the player has always had to invest those things to their character. Even Hawke, although BioWare did seem to make a point of telling you that Hawke wants to take care of his/her family. Except maybe I didn't want to and I wanted to play a Hawke that hated their family and wanted to abandon all of them except I couldn't because BioWare said so. I think maybe the difference here is that in Inquisition it's less getting in tune with a person you're controlling and more playing a character you create yourself.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 1:19:24 GMT
Nervous to answer right now, I don't want top . But by that same token (no voice for Warden) then those characters in say NWN or take a step further and say novels, they are lacking because they have no voice actors. However in actuality aren't they very fleshed out and have a tone that your mind fills in with what your imagination thinks is their voice? If the lines are well written, dialogue pulls you in quite well and can sometimes do a character better justice then if someone tried to act it out.
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Post by NeverlandHunter on Oct 19, 2016 1:20:55 GMT
It's fun reading through the DA hero threads that are floating around and got me to thinking about DA4's likely new protagonist. No brainer Solas is going to make an appearance but I'm wondering, say for instance our hero works for Solas or at least interacts with him in some complicity and it opens a romance arc with him. Would anyone be angry about it? Narratively speaking working around a Lavellan romance would be a nightmare and I'm not sure any excuse (i.e. time/distance/did something terrible/etc..) would make it fit in my book. It would be such a tricky thing to write in order for it to not clash/be out of character for Solas that I do not believe it could be done. However Opinion wise (assuming the above was moot and/or never romanced): Fuck yeah I'd be all for it depending on how the new protag was written and I know it's an unpopular opinion. I love the character they created for Solas, it is beautifully done but when I look at the Inquisitor/Lavellan, it's not there. The companions made Inquisition not the Inquisitor in my book. Without the friendships and romances I would not have been immersed in the game at all. It would have been 'this is a pretty game, grind levels, grind levels'. Wardens, Hawke; they were fleshed out characters that got you to have a connection with your PC. So when I look at Lavellan, I just see bland that poor Solas is stuck with (can I pair him with my Purple Hawke? No? aww... ). But I challenge ya'll to think Canon Inquisitors, not what we have to create in order to make Lavellan someone other than 'I'm the Diplomat' before voting Lavellan as the perfect match. I completely agree with you, ArshesNei! Well, minus new protagonist Solas romance. It's not that I wouldn't want that, I mean I wouldn't, but it would be a lot of work for a very niche (people interested in a romance with Solas that haven't romanced him with a Lavellan) group. Plus, I don't think it'd make story sense, considering it would be even more selfish of Solas to have a romantic involvement at that point. Buuut on the parts I agree. The Inquisitor is a flat character. I think she's too in the middle as far as characterization. The Warden was an empty vessel of personality, lack of voice is the number 1 reason for this. Even though she has a background, family that you'll meet and even a pretty set age, you can almost completely decide what type of personality she has. The Inquisitor or Hawke might say "What's wrong with that?" and by the tone of the voice actor you know how she means to say it. The Warden could have said that sarcastically, timidly, angrily, inquisitively, stoically, etc., however YOU imagine it. Her voice completely belongs to your mind, making it infinitely easier to put on you Warden skin. I tend to make and play (completely through) five different characters for each game. Only in Origins could I have such a variety in personality. My snarky Tabris was stubborn and sarcastic, my Amell was soft-spoken and persuasive, my Cousland charming and authoritative, my Mahariel guarded and questioning, etc. This is all just by the tone of voice my head gives each character, not the addded headcanon backstory I give them. Now for Hawke and the Inquisitor we're a lot more locked in because of their voices (not that this is a bad thing, I think modern AAA games should have voiced protagonists). So, the Warden is an empty vessel, waiting for you to take control. She is technically, as a character, the weakest of the three. As your character, her weaknesses become her strengths as your vision can be more completely realized. Now for Hawke. I hear a lot of complaints regarding Hawke's characterization because she is a character, with or without you controlling her. Sure, you can decide if she gets a long with this person, supports this cause, or is funnier, more diplomatic, or a blunt force of aggression, but no matter what paths she chooses she is still Hawke. She has certain cares, priorities, and traits, that you don't get a say in. Her excessive amount of backstory makes her an independent force away from the player-- a negative to some people who enjoy a more complete RPG experience, but I don't find her type of protagonist any better or worse than the Warden. She's just a different way of role-playing, one where you have to work harder to imprint her with your preferences. I believe the Inquisitor suffers from being too in the middle of these two types of RPG protagonists. You can have headcanon galore with the Inquisitor because of lack of much involvement from her past, but the Inquisitor herself, in game, cannot deviate very much from certain personality quirks. How different are the playthroughs of the a-holiest Inquistor vs the holiest? You can't give her the same personality makeover as the Warden. But, at the same time, she isn't a character like Hawke. She can't step away from you and be her own person. She'd collapse into bleeeeeeh. Sooo, yeah, in my opinion the Inquisitor is the weakest of the three protagonists. With that said, I love my Inquisitors! I also headcanon the crap out of them and give them a lot of backstory, which not everyone can do as easily as others! And, perhaps unpopular opinion, I think the next game will feature a new protagonist, something I think is for the best. Even though I do want to see my Inquisitor implemented somehow, and well.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 1:32:12 GMT
I kind of feel that the relationship between a Lavellan and Solas is a bit more special then one with Solas and DA:4 protag who works for him. For Lavellan, Solas was just Solas, but for the DA:4 protag Solas might not be Solas, he would be the Dread Wolf, he would be his title. They could get past that title, but the title would be the first thing anyone sees. This kind of reminds me of what I argued on the old forum, where my Lavellan wouldn't really date anyone else because at this point no one would see behind the title of Inquisitor, Herald of Andraste. Even Varric admits that he has a hard time seeing the Inquisitor as a person and not some symbol. Lavellan and Solas never saw each other as symbols, just people.
Also, for me I don't really have that particular attachment to my old quizzes, but I blame the lack of side quests that allow you to flesh them out for that more then anything else. In DA:O there were side quests that showed sides of my warden, such as meting the dwarf in dust town who's parents told her to leave her castless child to die in the Deep Roads. What does your warden do? Do they march to her father and demand that he take her back along with the kid? Do they tell her to leave the kid to die in the Deep Roads? Do they tell her to go to the new dwarven Chantry? Or do they just ignore her? I think not having quests like these and instead replace them with useless side quests gave me some disconnect between me and my quizz. After I get to Skyhold, my connection to my quizz started to weaken. But I'm going to try a playthrough where I play my Surana warden if she just ran from the Circle and never became a warden. I'll see how connected I get to her.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 1:35:24 GMT
You can have headcanon galore with the Inquisitor because of lack of much involvement from her past, but the Inquisitor herself, in game, cannot deviate very much from certain personality quirks. How different are the playthroughs of the a-holiest Inquistor vs the holiest? This!! YEEEEESSSSSS!! Edit: Did I just get top? FFFFFFFF!!! link
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 1:35:25 GMT
Inquisitor being very diplomatic with Solas
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Post by Elessara on Oct 19, 2016 1:44:33 GMT
Nervous to answer right now, I don't want top . But by that same token (no voice for Warden) then those characters in say NWN or take a step further and say novels, they are lacking because they have no voice actors. However in actuality aren't they very fleshed out and have a tone that your mind fills in with what your imagination thinks is their voice? If the lines are well written, dialogue pulls you in quite well and can sometimes do a character better justice then if someone tried to act it out. I hate getting ToP lol. Depends on how well the story is written. For a novel I generally have to imagine the entire character from the ground up. I found it more difficult to add tone to my Warden with the unrelenting blank stare on her face. Alistair cracks a joke, my character does *blank stare* whilst laughing. Someone is sad, my character does *blank stare* while being sad with them. Kind of reminds me of the many emotions of Kristen Stewart meme. In NWN (the first one) I honestly don't recall getting close ups of the face so it was easier for me to imagine character reactions.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 1:45:49 GMT
Inquisitor being very diplomatic with Solas Just have to go and poop on my argument eh? Using logic and YouTube! PAH! No but seriously I do agree with the DA4 protag having to bust through titles and appearances for any kind of Solas connection to start. I completely forgot to put that as a tick in the narrative portion of my argument for why it wouldn't likely happen.
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Post by Elessara on Oct 19, 2016 1:47:21 GMT
I kind of feel that the relationship between a Lavellan and Solas is a bit more special then one with Solas and DA:4 protag who works for him. For Lavellan, Solas was just Solas, but for the DA:4 protag Solas might not be Solas, he would be the Dread Wolf, he would be his title. They could get past that title, but the title would be the first thing anyone sees. This kind of reminds me of what I argued on the old forum, where my Lavellan wouldn't really date anyone else because at this point no one would see behind the title of Inquisitor, Herald of Andraste. Even Varric admits that he has a hard time seeing the Inquisitor as a person and not some symbol. Lavellan and Solas never saw each other as symbols, just people. Also, for me I don't really have that particular attachment to my old quizzes, but I blame the lack of side quests that allow you to flesh them out for that more then anything else. In DA:O there were side quests that showed sides of my warden, such as meting the dwarf in dust town who's parents told her to leave her castless child to die in the Deep Roads. What does your warden do? Do they march to her father and demand that he take her back along with the kid? Do they tell her to leave the kid to die in the Deep Roads? Do they tell her to go to the new dwarven Chantry? Or do they just ignore her? I think not having quests like these and instead replace them with useless side quests gave me some disconnect between me and my quizz. After I get to Skyhold, my connection to my quizz started to weaken. But I'm going to try a playthrough where I play my Surana warden if she just ran from the Circle and never became a warden. I'll see how connected I get to her. Ah, yes now this I will agree with. There were so many useless side quests in DAI and I generally like quests. The one that ticks me off the most I think is the series in Emprise du Lion where you find journals. And at the end it's just a journal where the woman kills her stalker. WHAT WAS THE POINT OF THIS QUEST LINE?! Ok yeah I found the dude stabbed in the back but still WHAT WAS THE POINT?! *foams at mouth* ... ahem, anyway, yes I would definitely have liked more side quests like the one in Dustown with the dwarven woman and her child.
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Post by melbella on Oct 19, 2016 1:56:42 GMT
I would actually suggest that you had to project even MORE into the Warden than the Inquisitor. The lack of voice acting allowed for more freedom in dialogue choices but the player had to provide tone. And the general lack of facial expressions made me refer to my Warden as Stoneface. Sure, there was a smile here or there, maybe a sad face but usually the Warden had no facial expression at all. And the player has always had to invest those things to their character. Even Hawke, although BioWare did seem to make a point of telling you that Hawke wants to take care of his/her family. Except maybe I didn't want to and I wanted to play a Hawke that hated their family and wanted to abandon all of them except I couldn't because BioWare said so. I think maybe the difference here is that in Inquisition it's less getting in tune with a person you're controlling and more playing a character you create yourself.
Sadly, I don't find this to be the case a lot of the time in Origins. So often I will pick a line of dialogue and hear my Warden say it in a deadpan/ironic/sarcastic/playful way in my head. But then I get the reaction from <insert character here> and it turns out it was actually a very mean/insulting/nasty line instead. And my reaction as the player is: WTF?! That isn't what I meant!
As for Hawke, you can at least end up with all your family (except Gamlen) dead, so if you hate them, at least you don't have to put up with them forever.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 2:02:19 GMT
*Snipping but I agree on side quest Ah, yes now this I will agree with. There were so many useless side quests in DAI and I generally like quests. This kinda gives me faith that DA4 will fix Inquisition's issue of random annoying side quests. Initially Crestwood was supposed to be much darker but much of that content was nixed. Considering that Inquisition was chopped and is only part of the story, perhaps DA4 will have more in the way of engaging side quests for our PC
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Post by Elessara on Oct 19, 2016 2:03:33 GMT
I would actually suggest that you had to project even MORE into the Warden than the Inquisitor. The lack of voice acting allowed for more freedom in dialogue choices but the player had to provide tone. And the general lack of facial expressions made me refer to my Warden as Stoneface. Sure, there was a smile here or there, maybe a sad face but usually the Warden had no facial expression at all. And the player has always had to invest those things to their character. Even Hawke, although BioWare did seem to make a point of telling you that Hawke wants to take care of his/her family. Except maybe I didn't want to and I wanted to play a Hawke that hated their family and wanted to abandon all of them except I couldn't because BioWare said so. I think maybe the difference here is that in Inquisition it's less getting in tune with a person you're controlling and more playing a character you create yourself.
Sadly, I don't find this to be the case a lot of the time in Origins. So often I will pick a line of dialogue and hear my Warden say it in a deadpan/ironic/sarcastic/playful way in my head. But then I get the reaction from <insert character here> and it turns out it was actually a very mean/insulting/nasty line instead. And my reaction as the player is: WTF?! That isn't what I meant!
As for Hawke, you can at least end up with all your family (except Gamlen) dead, so if you hate them, at least you don't have to put up with them forever.
Yeah, I had that happen a couple of times in Origins. Mostly what I meant by freedom in dialogue choices was you could actually read the entire text of what they were going to say before choosing it. But you're right, I remember specifically choosing some dialogue options with Alistair meaning for them to be joking and he got sad puppy face and acted hurt. And I was like, oops reload! Tbh, I out of all of the family members, Gamlen was the only one I actually DID want dead lol. At least in the beginning. The lying, greedy, grouchy sod kinda grew on me. And I remain annoyed to this day that there was no way to actually save Hawke's mother.
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Post by melbella on Oct 19, 2016 2:07:54 GMT
Yeah, being able to see the entire line is nice. Now, if we could have entire text (or first sentence if it's a lot of text) + tone icon, that would be perfect!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 2:18:24 GMT
Ah, yes now this I will agree with. There were so many useless side quests in DAI and I generally like quests. This kinda gives me faith that DA4 will fix Inquisition's issue of random annoying side quests. Initially Crestwood was supposed to be much darker but much of that content was nixed. Considering that Inquisition was chopped and is only part of the story, perhaps DA4 will have more in the way of engaging side quests for our We can only pray.
Sadly, I don't find this to be the case a lot of the time in Origins. So often I will pick a line of dialogue and hear my Warden say it in a deadpan/ironic/sarcastic/playful way in my head. But then I get the reaction from <insert character here> and it turns out it was actually a very mean/insulting/nasty line instead. And my reaction as the player is: WTF?! That isn't what I meant!
As for Hawke, you can at least end up with all your family (except Gamlen) dead, so if you hate them, at least you don't have to put up with them forever.
Yeah, I had that happen a couple of times in Origins. Mostly what I meant by freedom in dialogue choices was you could actually read the entire text of what they were going to say before choosing it. But you're right, I remember specifically choosing some dialogue options with Alistair meaning for them to be joking and he got sad puppy face and acted hurt. And I was like, oops reload! Tbh, I out of all of the family members, Gamlen was the only one I actually DID want dead lol. At least in the beginning. The lying, greedy, grouchy sod kinda grew on me. And I remain annoyed to this day that there was no way to actually save Hawke's mother. Yeah, I will give voice protagonist this, at least I know how my character sounds like when they deliver a line. Now if only that didn't cut down our dialogue options then everything would be okay. Edit: Also if only I could see what I was saying. Is that really so hard to pull off. Get rid of the dialogue wheel! Down with the dialogue wheel! The dialogue wheel is evil.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 2:18:44 GMT
Sleep calls but before I go might as well throw in another topic and stir the pot!
Since new protagonist was mentioned and the title of Dread Wolf was tossed in too, how about this for a discussion: How does our DA4 PC get through the mask of Fen'Harel to make a connection (romantically but if friendship is preferred go with that instead) with Solas the man? Can it be done, would they even be tolerated to the point that the PC could reach that level?
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Post by NeverlandHunter on Oct 19, 2016 2:26:00 GMT
Sleep calls but before I go might as well throw in another topic and stir the pot! Since new protagonist was mentioned and the title of Dread Wolf was tossed in too, how about this for a discussion: How does our DA4 PC get through the mask of Fen'Harel to make a connection (romantically but if friendship is preferred go with that instead) with Solas the man? Can it be done, would they even be tolerated to the point that the PC could reach that level? I imagine that DA4's protagonist will most likely never know Solas as the Inquisitor and Inquisition companions knew Solas. I don't see any type of friendship being formed between the two. Perhaps a mutual grudging respect, but a friendship would imply prior companionship and I think Solas, even if he doesn't end up as the biggest bad of DA4, will never be a companion. An unlikely ally, maybe (my vote), but there's always going to be that distance. He won't be Solas anymore. He'll be the Dread Wolf, Fen'Harel.
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