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Post by ladyiolanthe on Nov 21, 2016 19:46:12 GMT
Or, possibly, sacrificing all those elves Solas has been calling to him...
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Moondreamer
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Writing is hard. Drawing is harder. I need to do more of both.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by Moondreamer on Nov 21, 2016 19:49:15 GMT
Or, possibly, sacrificing all those elves Solas has been calling to him... I actually found a way he could kinda do that without turning into a complete psychopath and I'm no sure I should be happy with my own brain or not... Solas will have an army to his disposal if those elves really are flocking to him. And we can think the nations of modern Thedas (Qunari included) won't look kindly to that. I could see a bloody battle being almost a certainty in that case. Have that battle at a predetermined location where glyphs have been set and... use the blood of the fallen. It's a willing sacrifice, and yet it's not murder. Or, is it? As I said, I'm not sure if I should be happy with myself that I thought about a way to perform blood magic on that scale that is not completely immoral. Just... kinda immoral.
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Post by javeart on Nov 21, 2016 19:56:37 GMT
Or, possibly, sacrificing all those elves Solas has been calling to him... I actually found a way he could kinda do that without turning into a complete psychopath and I'm no sure I should be happy with my own brain or not... Solas will have an army to his disposal if those elves really are flocking to him. And we can think the nations of modern Thedas (Qunari included) won't look kindly to that. I could see a bloody battle being almost a certainty in that case. Have that battle at a predetermined location where glyphs have been set and... use the blood of the fallen. It's a willing sacrifice, and yet it's not murder. Or, is it? As I said, I'm not sure if I should be happy with myself that I thought about a way to perform blood magic on that scale that is not completely immoral. Just... kinda immoral. Definitely don't be happy about it I thought he wasn't supposed to practice blood magic, because of the fade thing? Have I missed something about that too? I thought sacrificing people for their blood would be one awfull thing I could be sure he wouldn't do?
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Writing is hard. Drawing is harder. I need to do more of both.
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Post by Moondreamer on Nov 21, 2016 20:00:03 GMT
I actually found a way he could kinda do that without turning into a complete psychopath and I'm no sure I should be happy with my own brain or not... Solas will have an army to his disposal if those elves really are flocking to him. And we can think the nations of modern Thedas (Qunari included) won't look kindly to that. I could see a bloody battle being almost a certainty in that case. Have that battle at a predetermined location where glyphs have been set and... use the blood of the fallen. It's a willing sacrifice, and yet it's not murder. Or, is it? As I said, I'm not sure if I should be happy with myself that I thought about a way to perform blood magic on that scale that is not completely immoral. Just... kinda immoral. Definitely don't be happy about it I thought he wasn't supposed to practice blood magic, because of the fade thing? Have I missed something about that too? I thought sacrificing people for their blood would be one awfull thing I could be sure he wouldn't do? He does say it interfere with the Fade, yes (yet we know blood magic has been used to great, if gruesome, effect in the past) but also that blood magic is a tool like any other. He doesn't ascribe a moral value to it. I don't see him putting elves to the knife himself. I don't think he'd go that low. But, would he be willing to harness something like a battle, that he knows would happen anyway? If he's desperate enough and figures it's the only way now that his orb is gone, yes, I think he'd do it.
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Post by javeart on Nov 21, 2016 20:25:26 GMT
Definitely don't be happy about it I thought he wasn't supposed to practice blood magic, because of the fade thing? Have I missed something about that too? I thought sacrificing people for their blood would be one awfull thing I could be sure he wouldn't do? He does say it interfere with the Fade, yes (yet we know blood magic has been used to great, if gruesome, effect in the past) but also that blood magic is a tool like any other. He doesn't ascribe a moral value to it. I don't see him putting elves to the knife himself. I don't think he'd go that low. But, would he be willing to harness something like a battle, that he knows would happen anyway? If he's desperate enough that figures it's the only way now that his orb is gone. Yes, I think he'd do it. Oh, I think he would do it too, don't gt me wrong. He has killed one the most important persons for him (in this case I'm aware that there's doubts abotu wheter Mythal died or not, but my interpretation of what he says in Trespasser is that at least he believes he has killed her), I think at this point he has set a course of action and is not looking back, so if h thinks something is really necessary he's going to do it, doesn't matter how bloody or cruel might be. That's totally my impression. But I'm suffering with it all The day I heard wekees say that the added the romance to make his story sadder I knew I had to get ready for he becoming the next vilain, but it seems I' haven't, not one bit
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Writing is hard. Drawing is harder. I need to do more of both.
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Post by Moondreamer on Nov 21, 2016 20:58:02 GMT
He does say it interfere with the Fade, yes (yet we know blood magic has been used to great, if gruesome, effect in the past) but also that blood magic is a tool like any other. He doesn't ascribe a moral value to it. I don't see him putting elves to the knife himself. I don't think he'd go that low. But, would he be willing to harness something like a battle, that he knows would happen anyway? If he's desperate enough that figures it's the only way now that his orb is gone. Yes, I think he'd do it. Oh, I think he would do it too, don't gt me wrong. He has killed one the most important persons for him (in this case I'm aware that there's doubts abotu wheter Mythal died or not, but my interpretation of what he says in Trespasser is that at least he believes he has killed her), I think at this point he has set a course of action and is not looking back, so if h thinks something is really necessary he's going to do it, doesn't matter how bloody or cruel might be. That's totally my impression. But I'm suffering with it all The day I heard wekees say that the added the romance to make his story sadder I knew I had to get ready for he becoming the next vilain, but it seems I' haven't, not one bit You and me both. I so want to shake some sense in that man. Argh! DA4 can't happen soon enough.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 21, 2016 21:04:34 GMT
According to Dorian's letter to his father in World of Thedas, assuming that what they were researching at that time was how to turn back time, then he confirms that all the theory is there to perform it, all that is lacking is the power. This was confirmed in game. So I do get the uncomfortable feeling that time travel could be revived at some future point if they could explain how the power to do it was achieved. Presumably if Solas dropped the Veil, then the huge injection of magic into the world would allow someone to go back in time, may be to even to the exact point where he undertook the act, so you could stop him. I'm hopeful they don't revive it though; it was messy enough the first time round with far too many plot holes.
As for Solas using blood magic. His assertion that it would interfere with his connection to the Fade was odd because in the past we have always been told that blood magic thins the Veil, as do large battles where there is much bloodshed. It was a combination of lyrium and major blood sacrifice that allowed the ancient Magisters to enter the Fade. I'm sure that his followers would willingly sacrifice themselves if they thought it would allow him to gain access. However, I don't think that is sufficient for what he needs because you would be opening it from the wrong side. From what he said previously, he need to enter the Fade and stay there, so he can tear down the Veil from that side. I think that is why things looked so bad in IHW because it was just a gradually widening tear allowing the two realities to bleed into one another. He wants a clean break (for whatever reason). There also seems a suggestion that blood magic always carries an inherent risk with it of unpredictable results that you wouldn't have wanted if you'd known. I wonder if there was some element of blood magic involved in creating the Veil and that is why he didn't foresee the dire consequences of his action.
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Post by ellawyn on Nov 21, 2016 23:21:24 GMT
well, of course, all three are more than just escaped slaves, I just meant it's something the three have in commin, and I said "kind of" because I didn't mean to obscure the huge differences between the stories of each of them. Stil, a interesting coincidence. Or maybe not so much, Gaider wrote Zevran and Fenris and probably at least put the bases of Solas, maybe he did willingly, or was ust exploring different takes on this kind of background for a character And while it's true that he still was a rebel god, to me it's very different the story of someone who would fight to free the slaves as part of the social group that enslaved them, than one that was actually a slave before... Again, "kind of", because, sure, I magine, as you say, that the was pretty highly valued and respected and it's obvious Mythal truly cared for him (Fenris was probably highly valued too, but no so much respected and loved). I don't know if it's completely discarded even the possibility that was Myhtal herself who granted him his freedom at some point, instead of him breaking free on his own (as I've just learned the basics of this theory today). In any case, for me, this adition to story nad to his character, enriches it and makes me like it more. Anyway, I agree that this complexity is one the things that makes the character great (and I didn't mean to make it go away) Oh - no, I wasn't calling you out or anything! Sorry, I just went off on a tangent. Ignore me
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Post by javeart on Nov 21, 2016 23:26:40 GMT
well, of course, all three are more than just escaped slaves, I just meant it's something the three have in commin, and I said "kind of" because I didn't mean to obscure the huge differences between the stories of each of them. Stil, a interesting coincidence. Or maybe not so much, Gaider wrote Zevran and Fenris and probably at least put the bases of Solas, maybe he did willingly, or was ust exploring different takes on this kind of background for a character And while it's true that he still was a rebel god, to me it's very different the story of someone who would fight to free the slaves as part of the social group that enslaved them, than one that was actually a slave before... Again, "kind of", because, sure, I magine, as you say, that the was pretty highly valued and respected and it's obvious Mythal truly cared for him (Fenris was probably highly valued too, but no so much respected and loved). I don't know if it's completely discarded even the possibility that was Myhtal herself who granted him his freedom at some point, instead of him breaking free on his own (as I've just learned the basics of this theory today). In any case, for me, this adition to story nad to his character, enriches it and makes me like it more. Anyway, I agree that this complexity is one the things that makes the character great (and I didn't mean to make it go away) Oh - no, I wasn't calling you out or anything! Sorry, I just went off on a tangent. Ignore me Not at all I thought I might have sounded different from what I intended, a feeling I have all the time (I really struggle to write my thoughts in english )
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CapricornSun
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Currently in D&D RPing hell and I love it! *v* <3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by phoray on Nov 22, 2016 15:26:28 GMT
so, yesterday, I realized that the Quiz being a mage was a liability. Solas could make them tranquil anytime.
The fact that he doesn't says to me that he isn't willing.
And that he wants to be stopped.
thoughts?
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Writing is hard. Drawing is harder. I need to do more of both.
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Writing is hard. Drawing is harder. I need to do more of both.
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Post by Moondreamer on Nov 22, 2016 15:41:54 GMT
so, yesterday, I realized that the Quiz being a mage was a liability. Solas could make them tranquil anytime. The fact that he doesn't says to me that he isn't willing. And that he wants to be stopped. thoughts? He certainly could. I don't remember where exactly we learn that killing a mage in the Fade results in Tranquility (was that in Feynriel's quest in DA2?). Solas being who he is, he could definitely do that any time he wants. Heck, he could probably do it even to a non-mage Inquisitor, as we know everyone but dwarves has some connection to the Fade even if non-mages' connection is weaker (and even a dwarven Inquisitor is shown to dream at least once). On the other hand, just like blood sacrifices, I don't think Solas would sink that low. He abhors the idea of Tranquility. I don't think he would do that to even an Inquisitor he doesn't like. It would go against all his ideals of personal freedom. As for if it means he hopes to be stopped, I don't know. I'm not sure the whole thing is so much him hoping to be stopped as him believing in letting the modern world have a champion in the Inquisitor. If he is to be destroying it, I think his sense of fairness and again his ideas about personal freedom means he believes in leaving them a fighting chance. To an Inquisitor who vows to stop him, he says "I know you will try", to a friendly Inquisitor who says they'l try to change his mind "I will treasure the chance to be wrong again, my friend." I don't think he expects the Inquisitor to be able to stop him, but I also think he wants them to stand on the other side of that particular battlefield. Hope that makes sense
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Post by phoray on Nov 22, 2016 15:47:17 GMT
so, yesterday, I realized that the Quiz being a mage was a liability. Solas could make them tranquil anytime. The fact that he doesn't says to me that he isn't willing. And that he wants to be stopped. thoughts? He certainly could. I don't remember where exactly we learn that killing a mage in the Fade results in Tranquility (was that in Feynriel's quest in DA2?). Solas being who he is, he could definitely do that any time he wants. Heck, he could probably do it even to a non-mage Inquisitor, as we know everyone but dwarves has some connection to the Fade even if non-mages' connection is weaker (and even a dwarven Inquisitor is shown to dream at least once). On the other hand, just like blood sacrifices, I don't think Solas would sink that low. He abhors the idea of Tranquility. I don't think he would do that to even an Inquisitor he doesn't like. It would go against all his ideals of personal freedom. As for if it means he hopes to be stopped, I don't know. I'm not sure the whole thing is so much him hoping to be stopped as him believing in letting the modern world have a champion in the Inquisitor. If he is to be destroying it, I think his sense of fairness and again his ideas about personal freedom means he believes in leaving them a fighting chance. To an Inquisitor who vows to stop him, he says "I know you will try", to a friendly Inquisitor who says they'l try to change his mind "I will treasure the chance to be wrong again, my friend." I don't think he expects the Inquisitor to be able to stop him, but I also think he wants them to stand on the other side of that particular battlefield. Hope that makes sense Yes, Fenriel. But he did it to Falessan? He can't be above it.
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Moondreamer
N2
Writing is hard. Drawing is harder. I need to do more of both.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Posts: 159 Likes: 325
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Post by Moondreamer on Nov 22, 2016 15:49:31 GMT
He certainly could. I don't remember where exactly we learn that killing a mage in the Fade results in Tranquility (was that in Feynriel's quest in DA2?). Solas being who he is, he could definitely do that any time he wants. Heck, he could probably do it even to a non-mage Inquisitor, as we know everyone but dwarves has some connection to the Fade even if non-mages' connection is weaker (and even a dwarven Inquisitor is shown to dream at least once). On the other hand, just like blood sacrifices, I don't think Solas would sink that low. He abhors the idea of Tranquility. I don't think he would do that to even an Inquisitor he doesn't like. It would go against all his ideals of personal freedom. As for if it means he hopes to be stopped, I don't know. I'm not sure the whole thing is so much him hoping to be stopped as him believing in letting the modern world have a champion in the Inquisitor. If he is to be destroying it, I think his sense of fairness and again his ideas about personal freedom means he believes in leaving them a fighting chance. To an Inquisitor who vows to stop him, he says "I know you will try", to a friendly Inquisitor who says they'l try to change his mind "I will treasure the chance to be wrong again, my friend." I don't think he expects the Inquisitor to be able to stop him, but I also think he wants them to stand on the other side of that particular battlefield. Hope that makes sense Yes, Fenriel. But he did it to Falessan? He can't be above it. As far as we know, he actually killed Felassan, and didn't make him Tranquil. The whole Tranquility thing though could be a way to bring back Best Elf. And with Cassandra working on a cure, Tranquility isn't a life sentence anymore either! *coughs* I might just be fiddling with a post-Trespasser fic hinging on that *coughs*
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Post by phoray on Nov 22, 2016 16:00:15 GMT
Yes, Fenriel. But he did it to Falessan? He can't be above it. As far as we know, he actually killed Felassan, and didn't make him Tranquil. The whole Tranquility thing though could be a way to bring back Best Elf. And with Cassandra working on a cure, Tranquility isn't a life sentence anymore either! *coughs* I might just be fiddling with a post-Trespasser fic hinging on that *coughs*hehehe I know what it's like to be attached to a story like that. I suppose we could ignore the Fenriel quest as being sorta weird. Seems the longer the series goes, the more likely they are to stick to established canon.
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Moondreamer
N2
Writing is hard. Drawing is harder. I need to do more of both.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Posts: 159 Likes: 325
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Writing is hard. Drawing is harder. I need to do more of both.
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Post by Moondreamer on Nov 22, 2016 16:09:46 GMT
As far as we know, he actually killed Felassan, and didn't make him Tranquil. The whole Tranquility thing though could be a way to bring back Best Elf. And with Cassandra working on a cure, Tranquility isn't a life sentence anymore either! *coughs* I might just be fiddling with a post-Trespasser fic hinging on that *coughs*hehehe I know what it's like to be attached to a story like that. I suppose we could ignore the Fenriel quest as being sorta weird. Seems the longer the series goes, the more likely they are to stick to established canon. It's definitely hard to know at this point if the information we get from Feynriel's quest is actually canon or not. There has been contradiction in lore in the past and I'm not sure what's accepted anymore. I also don't know if the idea of Tranquility being a consequence of being killed in the Fade is mentioned anywhere else.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Nov 22, 2016 16:13:56 GMT
I believe it has been more or less confirmed that Felassan is dead, although I'm not sure when or where that was stated.
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Moondreamer
N2
Writing is hard. Drawing is harder. I need to do more of both.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Posts: 159 Likes: 325
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Post by Moondreamer on Nov 22, 2016 16:17:45 GMT
I believe it has been more or less confirmed that Felassan is dead, although I'm not sure when or where that was stated. It was Cole who mentionned it in his dialogue in Trespasser, although as usual he's being cryptic : "His friend had to die, because he thought they were people. A slow arrow breaks in the sad wolf's jaws." Knowing Cole speaks of people's emotions and point of views and not necessarily of the reality of things though, all I can gain from this is what Solas' point of view of the event is. He thinks he had to kill his friend because he started thinking of modern people as worth saving. As for if he actually did end up killing him? Chances are good that he did, but he might not have foreseen the veil's effects of killing someone in the Fade (it's a reach though, I know).
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Nov 22, 2016 16:19:11 GMT
Moondreamer I could have sworn Weekes also said something about it, but... *shrugs* I'm always up for hoping that Felassan can return!
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Moondreamer
N2
Writing is hard. Drawing is harder. I need to do more of both.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Posts: 159 Likes: 325
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Post by Moondreamer on Nov 22, 2016 16:20:08 GMT
Moondreamer I could have sworn Weekes also said something about it, but... *shrugs* I'm always up for hoping that Felassan can return! Ah, I see. I don't remember Weekes saying anything, but then I'm not infallible He might well have confirmed it after the Cole Trespasser bit.
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is it launch time yet
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by rowrow on Nov 22, 2016 16:29:32 GMT
so, yesterday, I realized that the Quiz being a mage was a liability. Solas could make them tranquil anytime. The fact that he doesn't says to me that he isn't willing. And that he wants to be stopped. thoughts? With a friendly Inquisitor he probably won't do it before he knows he absolutely has to. He does want to give them a chance to prove him wrong, I think. Does he want to be stopped? Probably only if he's proved wrong ... otherwise I'm guessing no. If he truly wanted to give up all his plans for a romanced Lavellan but ultimately didn't, that says to me he's still operating from a powerful sense of duty/conscience. For which it seems he's willing to kill everyone ultimately. He's already killed Felassan (who I assume was also a friend) and sort-of killed Mythal, who he seemed to love and respect. So if he feels he has to kill the Inquisitor, I think he would. I think he'd probably try to give them a good death, though, and honestly just Tranquil-ing someone doesn't seem like his style. Doesn't he find the practice despicable?
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N2
Writing is hard. Drawing is harder. I need to do more of both.
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Posts: 159 Likes: 325
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Post by Moondreamer on Nov 22, 2016 16:33:55 GMT
rowrow I agree that, if it comes to that, Solas would be more likely to give the Inquisitor a clean death than taking the coward's way out and making them Tranquil from afar.
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lynroy
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Thief
Current Location: Dathomir
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: The3tWits
PSN: The3tWits
Prime Posts: 24,721
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Posts: 8,091 Likes: 20,633
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lynroy
Current Location: Dathomir
8,091
August 2016
lynroy
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
The3tWits
The3tWits
24,721
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Post by lynroy on Nov 22, 2016 16:44:39 GMT
Solas abhors tranquility. I do not believe at all that he would make anyone tranquil giving how he thought that walking among modern Thedosians was like walking through a world of tranquil.
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rowrow
N2
is it launch time yet
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Posts: 135 Likes: 325
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rowrow
is it launch time yet
135
August 2016
rowrow
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by rowrow on Nov 22, 2016 16:49:38 GMT
OK. I just went back and reread the end of Masked Empire. I forgot that Felassan's last meeting with Solas was in the Fade. I just remembered it as being in a forest. So it seems like Solas killed him in the Fade. The choice of a pragmatist (which Solas can be) or cold fury at the betrayal? Of course, we're given no indication of how Felassan's killer is feeling, we don't even know who he is at this point. "Behind him, there was only silence. There would be no debate, no logical argument or impassioned plea. Felassan had known that when he sat down before the campfire."
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