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Post by cloud9 on Feb 4, 2017 9:12:46 GMT
What the hell has happened to the blanketfort, lol. " Dirt brown" would have been a rather poor way to describe someone's skin color if that were the case lol and since this is bioware...
They went out of their way to add interracial human npcs with mixed children, and people of color in a game based on European cultures aside from in Rivain, so I'm inclined to believe if she was supposed to be black or brown, she would have been. edit: Rivain and Antiva, as far as Thedas goes. They intended to insult people of color in BioWare so it's not a surprise.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 9:13:54 GMT
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 4, 2017 11:09:51 GMT
Please tell me, that sarcastic comment about the Dalish remembering something correctly seems to be in the Emprise du Lion, but I can't seem to recall what he was referring to. Please jog my memory.
I was also looking at the sexy picture posted by CapricornSun of Lavellan and Solas dancing at Halamshiral, which clearly has Argentine Tango influence and was thinking, if only we had been allowed to dress so provocatively, or even in a dress at all, instead of that awful uniform. It was one of the biggest disappointments for me that we couldn't choose what we wore to the ball.
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Post by halla on Feb 4, 2017 15:56:37 GMT
Please tell me, that sarcastic comment about the Dalish remembering something correctly seems to be in the Emprise du Lion, but I can't seem to recall what he was referring to. Please jog my memory. I was also looking at the sexy picture posted by CapricornSun of Lavellan and Solas dancing at Halamshiral, which clearly has Argentine Tango influence and was thinking, if only we had been allowed to dress so provocatively, or even in a dress at all, instead of that awful uniform. It was one of the biggest disappointments for me that we couldn't choose what we wore to the ball. So wanted this to happen: (about the dress, just, you know, something better than that uniform) riku-noiro.deviantart.com/art/Nasty-eyes-and-nasty-Hearts-562172369ifunny.co/fun/buj7CBhV4?gallery=tag&query=solas
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Post by lobselvith8 on Feb 4, 2017 16:46:29 GMT
Please tell me, that sarcastic comment about the Dalish remembering something correctly seems to be in the Emprise du Lion, but I can't seem to recall what he was referring to. Please jog my memory. I'll always find Inquisition's position on the Dalish 'getting everything wrong' pretty odd considering how it turns out that the ancient elves did wield magic, immortality did exist among the ancients, Arlathan existed, Fen'Harel was real, the Creators and the Forgotten Ones not only existed but they were at war with each other, and Fen'Harel trapped the Creators. In contrast, the game takes the opposite position when it comes to Andrastians like Giselle telling the Inquisitor that the Maker gifted us with the Mark even when we find out that this wasn't the case. Even when we find out things that contradict Chantry teachings. For a new Dragon Age game, it would be nice if that wasn't the case, with whatever non-Andrastian option there might be. I'd also be curious to know if the Inquisition potentially being a militant arm of the Chantry could be a factor in whether the new hypothetical protagonist could refuse joining the Inquisition against Fen'Harel (given the schism between the 'White' and 'Black' Chantry, as well as any issue arising from a non-Andrastian main character and his or her views on the institution, assuming the player is allowed not to like the Chantry or not to help them, as we were originally promised for Inquisition).
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Post by lynroy on Feb 4, 2017 16:53:31 GMT
Please tell me, that sarcastic comment about the Dalish remembering something correctly seems to be in the Emprise du Lion, but I can't seem to recall what he was referring to. Please jog my memory. It's in Haven, one of the first conversations you can have with Solas. You ask him his opinion on elven culture and he replies he'd be more interested in hearing your opinions on elven culture. Take the bottom dialogue option and Inquisitor says, "My people come from the elves who refused to surrender when humans broke their treaty and destroyed the Dales" To which Solas replies, "Your Keeper was not wrong about that, at least. We must mark the occasion of the Dalish remembering something correctly. Perhaps we should plant a tree."
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 4, 2017 17:33:24 GMT
Please tell me, that sarcastic comment about the Dalish remembering something correctly seems to be in the Emprise du Lion, but I can't seem to recall what he was referring to. Please jog my memory. I'll always find Inquisition's position on the Dalish 'getting everything wrong' pretty odd considering how it turns out that the ancient elves did wield magic, immortality did exist among the ancients, Arlathan existed, Fen'Harel was real, the Creators and the Forgotten Ones not only existed but they were at war with each other, and Fen'Harel trapped the Creators. Okay, so... Inquisition apparently has position on the Dalish "having everything wrong"... even though later it shows that they got some things right? Well then the game's position CAN'T be that the Dalish "got everything wrong", ey? Of course, it's way more reasonable to say that the game shows that they got some things wrong and some right... like many other groups in Thedas, be it dwarves, elves or humans or Qunari. No distinct group of people in Thedas (that we know of) has been shown to have an accurate view on the past, with notable exception of ancient elves. It's quite apparent that Bioware has created the world where various groups or nationalities living in modern Thedas (those we know of at least) might have gotten some things right (about the past or world in general), but it's all wrapped up in conjectures, biases, made-up stories and so on. It's our task to piece the whole thing together - but we won't be doing so based just on stuff one specific group claims is correct, because it's quite apparent that - even if they got some stuff right - there will be thing that will be wrong.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 4, 2017 17:55:09 GMT
Anyway... I'm replaying Inquisition with one of my rogues, and I got to that dialogue:
Blackwall: You spoke of seeing death and destruction. Did you fight in a war? Solas: There are struggles across Thedas at any given time. I doubt you would have heard of it. Blackwall: An elven skirmish? Solas: In a manner of speaking. You? Blackwall: I was a soldier. And I... well... you know how it is. Solas: I do indeed.
I have to admit that I'm a bit intrigued about Solas saying that it was an 'elven skirmish' in a manner of speaking only. What could he mean by that?
I suppose the 'skirmish' is a bit too inadequate of a word to describe a grand rebellion against six god-like elven mages, but I have a feeling that this is about more than that...
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 4, 2017 18:37:22 GMT
It was probably Solas using extreme understatement. Mind you, he could be referring to the earlier war that started the Evanuris on the rise to godhood. It is still not clear exactly which war was being referred to then; it could have been against the Titans, or the Forgotten Ones or someone else entirely. Or he could be referring to the civil war that occurred after he shut the gods away. Or when Mythal and the other gods took action against Falon'Din. There have been quite a few incidents of war among the ancient elves. They were a bellicose lot.
Thank you for clearing up the reference to the Dalish getting something right. Does that mean that Solas agrees that the humans did break their treaty when they destroyed the Dales? And it is hardly noteworthy when the Dalish remember something from their own history, even though the revelations about Red Crossing would suggest they had forgotten even that.
Still, I think Solas' extreme sarcasm is uncalled for. It strikes me that my Lavellan was quite willing to hear the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth at the end of Trespasser and yet Solas still refused to give up the goods. So it was not the case of a Dalish being unwilling to listen but Solas being unwilling to divulge the information. Would he really have been any more forthcoming if the Dalish he had previously encountered had been willing to listen?
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Post by lobselvith8 on Feb 4, 2017 18:52:43 GMT
I'll always find Inquisition's position on the Dalish 'getting everything wrong' pretty odd considering how it turns out that the ancient elves did wield magic, immortality did exist among the ancients, Arlathan existed, Fen'Harel was real, the Creators and the Forgotten Ones not only existed but they were at war with each other, and Fen'Harel trapped the Creators. Okay, so... Inquisition apparently has position on the Dalish "having everything wrong"... even though later it shows that they got some things right? Well then the game's position CAN'T be that the Dalish "got everything wrong", ey? If characters in the narrative say the Dalish got 'everything wrong' simply because they didn't have everything correct, and only the fans point out that the Dalish didn't get everything wrong, then I can't agree with you. No distinct group of people in Thedas (that we know of) has been shown to have an accurate view on the past, with notable exception of ancient elves. It's quite apparent that Bioware has created the world where various groups or nationalities living in modern Thedas (those we know of at least) might have gotten some things right (about the past or world in general), but it's all wrapped up in conjectures, biases, made-up stories and so on. The issue isn't that recorded history isn't always accurate, however. The issue is in how one group is addressed in terms of some of their history not being accurate with blanket statements that they got 'everything wrong' despite not getting everything wrong. That even Solas makes such a statement about the Dalish is something I find to be rather unfortunate. It's our task to piece the whole thing together - but we won't be doing so based just on stuff one specific group claims is correct, because it's quite apparent that - even if they got some stuff right - there will be thing that will be wrong. And if it was handled in a better way, I don't think quite so many people would take such umbrage with it.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 4, 2017 20:09:59 GMT
It was probably Solas using extreme understatement. Mind you, he could be referring to the earlier war that started the Evanuris on the rise to godhood. It is still not clear exactly which war was being referred to then; it could have been against the Titans, or the Forgotten Ones or someone else entirely. Or he could be referring to the civil war that occurred after he shut the gods away. Or when Mythal and the other gods took action against Falon'Din. There have been quite a few incidents of war among the ancient elves. They were a bellicose lot. Welp, Solas does mention that the Evanuris were a vengeful and fickle lot, and we do know that Falon'Din has caused wars, but it's unclear whether Solas was talking about a specific conflict or a series of them. He likely was involved or witnessed more than one after all. Considering that Dalish are a scattered lot, it's entirely unsurprising that either the Dalish as a whole or specific clans wouldn't know about *exactly* what happened. It's been 800 years ago and a lot has happened since then, and it's not like it's shown that the Chantry - even with its domination in the region and multiple written records or scholars - knows the details of specific events, like the Red Crossing one. ... I'm not sure why your'e asking whether Solas "agrees" that humans broke their treaty - whatever has led to it, even with some characters trying to justify it, the story quite obviously paints Exalted March as a rather large blemish on side of humans and the Chantry. Solas is sarcastic... in other news, the water is wet . I mean, at least Lavellan has an option to immediately confront him about it and he can even apologize for it on the spot. And please don't make Solas not willing to tell everything to anyone at the end of Trespasser as another "Dalish" thing. Whether YOUR Dalish is open or not is irrelevant, just like it's irrelevant how open and listening Inquisitor from different background is. Plus, the reveals at the end of Trespasser are meant specifically for Inquisitor, liked or not. It's unrealistic to think Solas would be as forthcoming with anyone else, never mind things he doesn't say, whether due to his paranoia, or because we can't know everything yet at this time (in and outside of game). That doesn't mean that there isn't a wealth of knowledge he isn't willing share with anyone who is open enough - he is in fact happy to do so; we gain approval from him no matter who we are when we ask him things, and there are no secrets he exclusively shares with member of one group over the other across entirety of the game (with the exception of earlier vallaslin origin reveal to romanced Lavellan, which was already established to have been a case of Solas being flustered, not to mention that it was a reveal aimed at a VERY specific person - a person who might as well be the love of his life - and not anyone else).
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Post by lobselvith8 on Feb 4, 2017 20:43:47 GMT
Anyway... I'm replaying Inquisition with one of my rogues, and I got to that dialogue: Blackwall: You spoke of seeing death and destruction. Did you fight in a war? Solas: There are struggles across Thedas at any given time. I doubt you would have heard of it. Blackwall: An elven skirmish? Solas: In a manner of speaking. You? Blackwall: I was a soldier. And I... well... you know how it is. Solas: I do indeed.I have to admit that I'm a bit intrigued about Solas saying that it was an 'elven skirmish' in a manner of speaking only. What could he mean by that? I suppose the 'skirmish' is a bit too inadequate of a word to describe a grand rebellion against six god-like elven mages, but I have a feeling that this is about more than that... Probably eluding to the war with the Evanuris. Or maybe the conflict with the Forgotten Ones, assuming he was involved in that war.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 4, 2017 21:14:14 GMT
Anyway... I'm replaying Inquisition with one of my rogues, and I got to that dialogue: Blackwall: You spoke of seeing death and destruction. Did you fight in a war? Solas: There are struggles across Thedas at any given time. I doubt you would have heard of it. Blackwall: An elven skirmish? Solas: In a manner of speaking. You? Blackwall: I was a soldier. And I... well... you know how it is. Solas: I do indeed.I have to admit that I'm a bit intrigued about Solas saying that it was an 'elven skirmish' in a manner of speaking only. What could he mean by that? I suppose the 'skirmish' is a bit too inadequate of a word to describe a grand rebellion against six god-like elven mages, but I have a feeling that this is about more than that... Probably eluding to the war with the Evanuris. Or maybe the conflict with the Forgotten Ones, assuming he was involved in that war. I'm not really sure there was an all-out war between Evanuris and Forgotten Ones... I may be wrong though. There's too little information we have to know what happened and how many conflicts there were. We do know that there was a large one with the Titans, but we don't even know what THAT was really about. Still, I'm of a mind that "Forgotten One" is basically any political opponent Evanuris had that they've banished or effectively got rid of - hence Fen'Harel is considered either one of them or one who at a time worked with them: he's likely simply avoided the fate of others and didn't let Evanuris push him to obscurity. Of course we have Geldauran claiming that him being forgotten is intentional and that he'll eventually strike from shadows, but that still doesn't mean that he didn't let himself be... dunno... banished? Bound? Well, becoming "Forgotten One" certainly means that their records were likely largely purged, which likely includes most memories of them from the Fade.
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Post by lobselvith8 on Feb 4, 2017 21:44:26 GMT
Probably eluding to the war with the Evanuris. Or maybe the conflict with the Forgotten Ones, assuming he was involved in that war. I'm not really sure there was an all-out war between Evanuris and Forgotten Ones... I may be wrong though. There's too little information we have to know what happened and how many conflicts there were. We do know that there was a large one with the Titans, but we don't even know what THAT was really about. Still, I'm of a mind that "Forgotten One" is basically any political opponent Evanuris had that they've banished or effectively got rid of - hence Fen'Harel is considered either one of them or one who at a time worked with them: he's likely simply avoided the fate of others and didn't let Evanuris push him to obscurity. Of course we have Geldauran claiming that him being forgotten is intentional and that he'll eventually strike from shadows, but that still doesn't mean that he didn't let himself be... dunno... banished? Bound? Well, becoming "Forgotten One" certainly means that their records were likely largely purged, which likely includes most memories of them from the Fade. There is reference to the Forgotten Ones residing in the Void, and a mention is made about Andruil going there to fight them, so I don't think it necessarily applies to anyone who is simply a political opponent.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 4, 2017 21:52:23 GMT
I'm not really sure there was an all-out war between Evanuris and Forgotten Ones... I may be wrong though. There's too little information we have to know what happened and how many conflicts there were. We do know that there was a large one with the Titans, but we don't even know what THAT was really about. Still, I'm of a mind that "Forgotten One" is basically any political opponent Evanuris had that they've banished or effectively got rid of - hence Fen'Harel is considered either one of them or one who at a time worked with them: he's likely simply avoided the fate of others and didn't let Evanuris push him to obscurity. Of course we have Geldauran claiming that him being forgotten is intentional and that he'll eventually strike from shadows, but that still doesn't mean that he didn't let himself be... dunno... banished? Bound? Well, becoming "Forgotten One" certainly means that their records were likely largely purged, which likely includes most memories of them from the Fade. There is reference to the Forgotten Ones residing in the Void, and a mention is made about Andruil going there to fight them, so I don't think it necessarily applies to anyone who is simply a political opponent. I'm not really sure why Forgotten Ones residing in the Void must mean that they were not political opponents? One can reside in the Void and still be a political opponent, or a political opponent that has been dealt with - in fact, what if the Forgotten Ones reside in the Void precisely BECAUSE they were banished there? After all, we do have a mention of Forbidden Ones being exiled from lands of Evanuris so we do know that exile (and some sort of bindings) was in Evanuris' repertoire, no matter where Forbidden Ones went next.
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Post by lobselvith8 on Feb 4, 2017 22:12:55 GMT
There is reference to the Forgotten Ones residing in the Void, and a mention is made about Andruil going there to fight them, so I don't think it necessarily applies to anyone who is simply a political opponent. I'm not really sure why Forgotten Ones residing in the Void must mean that they were not political opponents? One can reside in the Void and still be a political opponent, or a political opponent that has been dealt with - in fact, what if the Forgotten Ones reside in the Void precisely BECAUSE they were banished there? After all, we do have a mention of Forbidden Ones being exiled from lands of Evanuris so we do know that exile (and some sort of bindings) was in Evanuris' repertoire, no matter where Forbidden Ones went next. I'm saying I don't think being one of the Forgotten Ones was a blanket term for any political opponents that the Evanuris may have had. There's a difference.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 22:16:38 GMT
Please tell me, that sarcastic comment about the Dalish remembering something correctly seems to be in the Emprise du Lion, but I can't seem to recall what he was referring to. Please jog my memory. It's in Haven, one of the first conversations you can have with Solas. You ask him his opinion on elven culture and he replies he'd be more interested in hearing your opinions on elven culture. Take the bottom dialogue option and Inquisitor says, "My people come from the elves who refused to surrender when humans broke their treaty and destroyed the Dales" To which Solas replies, "Your Keeper was not wrong about that, at least. We must mark the occasion of the Dalish remembering something correctly. Perhaps we should plant a tree." Solas just oozes with salt when it comes to the Dalish.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 4, 2017 23:08:29 GMT
Actually Solas is very unforthcoming when it comes to useful information, particularly considering he always has the stock excuse "I saw it in the Fade" to explain how he came by the information. I have made reference before to how little useful information he imparts when we ask him about things he saw. He gives a lovely idealised view of the wonder of ancient Elvhenan but the majority of revelations from the Fade centre around an obscure goddess, a village with a friendly matchmaker spirit, a baker in Par Vollen, etc. Things it would have been useful to know:
1) The identity of the Elder One before he attacked us at Haven. Also the fact that he obviously survived the explosion. (All he had to do was take a short trip out of Haven, seemingly up to the site of the Conclave, then return and say what he "saw" in the Fade).
2) The origins of the Blight. (I'm actually pretty sure that the Blight is the reason he thinks the world has to die in order to be cleansed of it).
3) Who the Old Gods were.
4) What went on between the Titans and the Evanuris?
5) What exactly is the Golden/Black City?
6) How exactly did they murder Mythal and who exactly were the parties responsible?
7) Who are the Forgotten Ones? Did he shut them away too, as the Dalish believe?
The first of these would have helped in saving lives but would have reduced the surprise element later in DAI (although once Corypheus had been revealed, we were already privy to information that our PC lacked concerning his "effective immortality") Of course Morrigan was also culpable in not revealing how archdemons survive earlier, since Varric was making no secret of the fact that he and Hawke thought they had killed him before.
2,3,4,5 are obviously things he couldn't reveal because "spoilers" for future games. Ditto 6 & 7, plus there is the possibility that the Forgotten Ones may have been in league with him over the entrapment of the Creators and then he tricked them too.
I wasn't meaning that only a Dalish Inquisitor should have been given this information but simply pointing out that in view of the amount of really useful information that he didn't impart and in fact the information that was not given until 2 years after the original events, it just seems unlikely to me that he would have divulged anything useful to the Dalish even if they had been willing to listen. Unless, of course, he had been trying to recruit them to his cause but even then would probably only told them as much as he felt he needed to.
It just seems like he has a particular prejudice against the Dalish, likely because they remember him as a trickster instead of a rebel hero, and yet according to the preface to the Canticle of Shartan, they apparently remember him as both (just not by name). Flemeth/Mythal seems to have a warmer view of the Dalish. Unlike Solas and Abelas, she acknowledges Lavellan as one of the People. She did the same with Merrill in DA2. I wonder if it is because it was their prayers that allowed Mythal to retain her identity in the Fade until she found a host in Flemeth.
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Post by halla on Feb 4, 2017 23:53:36 GMT
Actually Solas is very unforthcoming when it comes to useful information, particularly considering he always has the stock excuse "I saw it in the Fade" to explain how he came by the information. I have made reference before to how little useful information he imparts when we ask him about things he saw. He gives a lovely idealised view of the wonder of ancient Elvhenan but the majority of revelations from the Fade centre around an obscure goddess, a village with a friendly matchmaker spirit, a baker in Par Vollen, etc. Things it would have been useful to know: 1) The identity of the Elder One before he attacked us at Haven. Also the fact that he obviously survived the explosion. (All he had to do was take a short trip out of Haven, seemingly up to the site of the Conclave, then return and say what he "saw" in the Fade). 2) The origins of the Blight. (I'm actually pretty sure that the Blight is the reason he thinks the world has to die in order to be cleansed of it). 3) Who the Old Gods were. 4) What went on between the Titans and the Evanuris? 5) What exactly is the Golden/Black City? 6) How exactly did they murder Mythal and who exactly were the parties responsible? 7) Who are the Forgotten Ones? Did he shut them away too, as the Dalish believe? The first of these would have helped in saving lives but would have reduced the surprise element later in DAI (although once Corypheus had been revealed, we were already privy to information that our PC lacked concerning his "effective immortality") Of course Morrigan was also culpable in not revealing how archdemons survive earlier, since Varric was making no secret of the fact that he and Hawke thought they had killed him before. 2,3,4,5 are obviously things he couldn't reveal because "spoilers" for future games. Ditto 6 & 7, plus there is the possibility that the Forgotten Ones may have been in league with him over the entrapment of the Creators and then he tricked them too. I wasn't meaning that only a Dalish Inquisitor should have been given this information but simply pointing out that in view of the amount of really useful information that he didn't impart and in fact the information that was not given until 2 years after the original events, it just seems unlikely to me that he would have divulged anything useful to the Dalish even if they had been willing to listen. Unless, of course, he had been trying to recruit them to his cause but even then would probably only told them as much as he felt he needed to. It just seems like he has a particular prejudice against the Dalish, likely because they remember him as a trickster instead of a rebel hero, and yet according to the preface to the Canticle of Shartan, they apparently remember him as both (just not by name). Flemeth/Mythal seems to have a warmer view of the Dalish. Unlike Solas and Abelas, she acknowledges Lavellan as one of the People. She did the same with Merrill in DA2. I wonder if it is because it was their prayers that allowed Mythal to retain her identity in the Fade until she found a host in Flemeth. maybe stupid question but what if flemeth is maker or connected to maker? if mythal was the one to show to andraste and shartan was solas and and he went there to simply help because it was flemeth doing? drunk thoughts and prolly it was somewhere here already and since solas was against gray wardens plans, does it mean that maybe, just maybe, forgotten ones and forbidden ones are all Elvhenan? correct me if im wrong, im probably for sure wrong. but no more skin color talk please
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 0:11:43 GMT
I kind of think that part of the problem with just killing all the Old Gods is because they are the only thing really keeping the Darkspawn underground. The Darkspawn remain underground in search of an Archdemon, in Solas's banter with Blackwall it made it sound like Solas didn't believe that the darkspawn threat would be over once all the Old Gods are gone. Darkspawn don't come from the Old Gods after all, they come from Broodmothers. There would still be Darkspawn, but then they would have no reason to explore the underground. They would all go topside and this time there is no Archdemon to slay in order to stop it.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 5, 2017 0:18:53 GMT
Actually Solas is very unforthcoming when it comes to useful information, particularly considering he always has the stock excuse "I saw it in the Fade" to explain how he came by the information. Right, because "I witnessed it myself" wouldn't give him away right away - or make him seem like a complete loon. Like, what else was he supposed to say, when - for all intents and purposes - his "excuse" holds up to scrutiny? Right... what abut approaching Inquisition and wowing them with his knowledge of Fade and Breach? What about him saving Inquisitor's life and 'theorizing' that the Mark would be able to help with rifts? What about him leading Inquisition to Skyhold? What about him pinning the whereabouts of his friend perfectly and - if the demon is released from binding - proving everyone that everything he said about spirits and demons being one and the same so far holds up? You're assuming that Solas actually knew at that point that the "Elder One" and the person who caused the explosion at the conclave is one and the same. While in reality, we have no such certainty. In fact, we know from Trespasser that his people have led the Venatori to place where orb was hidden - there's no mention whatsoever that either he or his agents were ever in direct contact with Corypheus himself. Solas likely never thought that the leader of Venatori is anything more than some arrogant supremacist prick, and comments he makes after we reach Haven only support that notion. He also seemed to have realized what Cory is no earlier than during the attack on Haven and had previously thought that everyone at the site of explosion has perished. If it wasn't so, he wouldn't be pestering Leliana and Inquisitor for the whereabouts of the artifact and never mentioning that it might be in possession of someone else. There's also a very good reason why Solas has problem tracking or guessing the nature of Corypheus that have nothing to do with "excuses" - even Cole (who, theoretically at least, could give us whereabouts of Cory as easily as Solas) has problem saying much about Cory, because (according to him) he's just too loud and it's hard to say anything about him... Not to mention that he's a Blighted horror who also surrounds himself with lackeys who use copious amounts of blood magic (enslaved Warden mages and Venatori), which likely make him harder to detect or predict through the Fade. Add to that a memory-gobbling demon working on his behalf. I mean, why do you think Corypheus was largely obscured by shadows and kinda fuzzy when we see the memory of Justinia being held as sacrifice when we first reach the ruins of the Temple? Doesn't seem just to be a story device, if you put 2 and 2 together. You realize that he doesn't tell us the origins of the Blight for specific reasons? I mean, neither he NOR Mythal is forthcoming with what the Blight actually is or where it comes from. Obviously there are mysteries behind the Blight neither Solas nor Flemythal share likely for what they think are very good reasons. Plus - what Solas *could* say aside from what he said or implied that would not expose him right away? He has to strike a delicate balance between showing that he knows enough and hiding that he knows much more without making himself way beyond suspicious, both for Inquisition and for players. Same applies to any other topic you've mentioned. Neither he - NOR Flemeth - think that the world is either ready or willing to hear the true story. You seem to think that only revealing the full truth is the "useful information" - while this is simply not true. Solas could have simply started with revealing secrets of the Fade or how to communicate with spirits safely and rely on guiding people into finding truth on their own. You know, kinda like he did with Inquisitor and Inquisition. He hardly ever starts with bombshells (nevermind that even basic information Solas gives can be a 'bombshell' in world of moden Thedas) and slowly guides and reveals, or provides tools or hints for others to do the searching on their own. Of course, how far Inky would fare depends on how willing they are to go on that journey. Seems obvious that it applies to others, Dalish includes, as well. I'm pretty sure that Solas is way more irked by the Dalish claiming that they're 'true elves' and claiming that what they know is accurate more than anything else (plus, you know - worshiping the tyrants he saved people from...). So basically his "prejudice" is basically the same criticism he has of any other groups acting that way - or individuals, like Morrigan. Yet at the same time Flemeth chooses to withhold about the same amount of information from anyone as Solas. In fact, in DAI she's amused by the notion of revealing herself to anyone: Even human Inquisitor specifically mentions that perhaps she should reveal herself to elves - yet Flemythal claims that all of people are the same and "they don't want the truth". If Inquisitor is an elf, Flemeth merely says that (s)he doesn't know what they're asking for. So yeah, I don't think Flemeth is necessarily 'warmer' - and she's certainly spent a lot of time among Thedosians. The fact that she calls elf Inquisitor as one of the People means little, considering that there are times during the game, when Solas uses 'our people' in relation to Sera of all people - PLUS he calls befriended elf Quizzy 'lethallan', which - as far as we know - elves use to those they feel kinship with.
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Post by lobselvith8 on Feb 5, 2017 1:07:41 GMT
It just seems like he has a particular prejudice against the Dalish, likely because they remember him as a trickster instead of a rebel hero, and yet according to the preface to the Canticle of Shartan, they apparently remember him as both (just not by name). I'm pretty sure that Solas is way more irked by the Dalish claiming that they're 'true elves' and claiming that what they know is accurate more than anything else (plus, you know - worshiping the tyrants he saved people from...). So basically his "prejudice" is basically the same criticism he has of any other groups acting that way - or individuals, like Morrigan. We met plenty of Dalish who don't take the attitude that they are 'true elves', so are you saying that Solas is generalizing an entire ethnic group of people as an explanation for his attitude? There are Dalish like Merrill who not only voice the opinion that the Andrastian elves are "our people" (and even voice that their plight matters), but there are examples of Dalish elves stepping in to help non-Dalish - Aneirin being rescued when the templars tried to kill the boy and left him to bleed to death, Alarith being saved when he was attacked by bandits, Clan Lavellan stepping in to protect the Wycome elves. As for "being more accurate than anything else", that would mean Solas has no actual understanding of the Dalish. If Merrill outright says that they are cognizant of the limits of what they currently know and acknowledge that they don't know everything (like who started the war between the Creators and the Forgotten Ones, or the names of all the Forgotten Ones), and even their lore reads that certain bits of information may not be accurate (like the fall of Arlathan), I'm not sure why he would assume that they think they know better than 'anything else'. As Gishrael notes: "You ask what happened to Arlathan? Sadly, we do not know. Even those of us who keep the ancient lore have no record of what truly happened." Flemeth/Mythal seems to have a warmer view of the Dalish. Unlike Solas and Abelas, she acknowledges Lavellan as one of the People. She did the same with Merrill in DA2. I wonder if it is because it was their prayers that allowed Mythal to retain her identity in the Fade until she found a host in Flemeth. Yet at the same time Flemeth chooses to withhold about the same amount of information from anyone as Solas. Yet Asha'bellanar treats the People much differently than Solas, which I believe was Gervaise's point.
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Post by opuspace on Feb 5, 2017 3:23:06 GMT
To be fair, Solas may have only ran into a small sample size of Dalish since we, the players have the benefit of seeing more open-minded and self-aware examples across the games. When Solas meets a Dalish Inquisitor who acts otherwise, he's willing to give the benefit of a doubt.
Problem was, what was mentioned, about Flemeth saying all people are the same when a human Inquisitor asks if she'll reveal herself to the elven people, is sending me mixed messages.
If the Dalish are meant to be too scattered to judge any single one as a representative of the rest, then why in the writing, are the detractors blanketing them as all of them possessing the same flaws?
Yes, I get that it's up to the viewer to sift through what we're given and that the opinions put forth are not unbiased, but without a balancing counterviewpoint, it can subliminally send the message that all Dalish are the same: arrogant, misguided and deserving of their fate.
Sorry, I'm probably jumping in without reading far enough. But I am a little baffled as to why the writing keeps tacking on the flaws as though it's universal with the Dalish if they're meant to be too varied to judge.
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Post by ellehaym on Feb 5, 2017 3:23:27 GMT
To be fair, Flemythal has been around in the post-veil world far longer than Solas has. In the course of her many lives, she may have met a person that proved her wrong about the people living in the post-veil world much like Solas if he has a good opinion of you.
Though, I am not sure about her "wrekoning that will shake the very heavens" will have any damage to the Fade or physical world
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Post by lobselvith8 on Feb 5, 2017 3:31:58 GMT
I kind of think that part of the problem with just killing all the Old Gods is because they are the only thing really keeping the Darkspawn underground. The Darkspawn remain underground in search of an Archdemon, in Solas's banter with Blackwall it made it sound like Solas didn't believe that the darkspawn threat would be over once all the Old Gods are gone. Darkspawn don't come from the Old Gods after all, they come from Broodmothers. There would still be Darkspawn, but then they would have no reason to explore the underground. They would all go topside and this time there is no Archdemon to slay in order to stop it. People have discussed that issue since Origins, and I've wondered what might be result of the darkspawn no longer being bound to the Song. There was even a thread (after Awakening came out) where the ramifications of 'awakened' darkspawn were discussed, since some felt that, without the Song of the Old Gods to keep them occupied in the Deep Roads, the darkspawn might gain sentience, and become a serious problem for the surface world. Some felt that the darkspawn were simply too dangerous to trust, while others felt it would be an uncomfortable necessity to deal with them in order to keep the surface safe (it was also a factor with respect to whether or not they sided with the Architect). One possibility was even discussed in a separate thread about awakened darkspawn coming to the surface to abduct women to make into Broodmothers so that more darkspawn would be 'made', so to speak. Some people even argued that such a sacrifice should be made to keep the peace. The discussion ended up leading me to change my mind about siding with the Architect and to play a much more pragmatic canon Warden who had a zero tolerance with darkspawn.
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