The Blanketfort (crying and throwing up) - The Official Solas Thread [Spoilers]

There is a slight misunderstanding actually.

In your example of a car, it would be like people who have made top of my car their home and now I can't move my car and moving it means they will fall down. So I will move it regardless of the death it will cause because I need my car to save other people. Its about magic so the example is going to be flawed but bear with me. So imagine the top of my car can is sustaining majority of current life in Thedas but I need to move the car to save ancient elves. Many people will die, but I don't know how many.

Its certainly complicated in nature, but the veil does belong to Solas regardless.

If we're not supposed to understand the difference between ancient elves and mortals then I don't think BW would ever try and make us empathize with Solas. As it stands, they want us to empathize with him quite a bit - they just can't reveal absolutely everything right now, because there'd be no stakes or tension left for next game. Hence I think we are ultimately supposed to understand his position - and though right now the main glaring difference we have is that ancient people were immortal and magical, everything else will likely be revealed in portions later.

And yes, Solas defends spirits as people with free will and intelligence, but there are three things mortals don't have: they're basically immortal, they're magical and they can see more than mortals do. These might not be decisive factors, but in that regard they're indeed closer to ancient elves than modern Thedosians are.

Like I said - Solas seems to regard modern Thedosians with pity. They might have made a life for themselves, courageously 'fight against the tide' (whatever that could mean), but ultimately he might see them as people with a fatal disease... in fact they sort of DO have one, since they're mortals and their life span is short compared to what it was before.
So despite recognizing that they're sentient, have dreams and feelings and so on, he may see all of them as suffering (same way he sees spirits suffer, locked behind the Veil) and thinks that ending that suffering will be beneficial to the world in the long run.


...We also have to take into consideration that Solas is scarred by events from the past and disassociates himself heavily from people, same way Iron Bull dissociates himself from Tal-Vashoth, whom IB at one point prior to his conversion did not see as people. They even have a piece of dialogue about it between themselves.

Solas: You fought the Tal-Vashoth for a long time, Iron Bull, did you not?
Iron Bull: Every day.
Iron Bull: I'd kill some of them, they'd kill some of my guys, and then I'd kill them some more.
Solas: No man can kill so many people without breaking inside. To survive... those you fight must become monsters.
Iron Bull: The ones that kill innocent people, yeah. The rest... I don't know.
Solas: The mind does marvelous things to protect itself.

It's not identical situation, but the psychological defense mechanism is about the same - and from tone of voice you can tell that Solas admits this to himself as well. This is how he can empathize with IB in the first place. To do what he must do he basically must force himself to disassociate from modern people, either to fight them... or, who knows, prepare himself for inevitable loss, either if their mortality can't be cured (whatever curing that could mean) after the Veil's lifted, or if it is revealed that the world as Thedosians know it will end anyway, since it's hinted at a few places that the world is running out of time anyhow... though we don't yet know why: perhaps the Veil actually has an expiration date and it'll shatter and Solas is trying and prevent world turning into future Redcliffe 2.0. Or perhaps Titans will awake and re-shape the world. Or - and it seems fairly likely - we are about to see the ultimate Blight that goes way beyond Archdemons and darkspawn legions... and as we have seen from whole history of modern Thedas, the world is ill-equipped to fight such a threat.

Interesting discussion going on about why Solas doesn't see modern Thedasians as real people right away. The lack of immortality is an important one. I think it would be difficult to sympathize with a species that's so short lived in comparison to your life span, and yet Solas, a compassionate person, does just that. The initial reaction to bugs that look like People, but aren't People couldn't have been a good one though He also makes a comment about how being among modern people was "like walking among a sea of tranquil" (that was a memory quote). Who knows just how different a Veil-less world where everyone lived and breathed magic was. Obviously it was enough of a culture shock that Solas originally thought of modern Thedasians as something akin to emotionless shells of people. Just the idea of waking up in a world that was so changed from your own, do to a choice you made, is terrible.

He still thinks of her; does he not appear in her dreams? However, if he really loved and respected her, he would tell her the whole truth about why he has to go ahead with his plan and then let her judge if she still wants to be a part of it. Mind you, may be the reason he doesn't divulge everything is because he is afraid she might talk him out of it and he is convinced at the moment that he has to proceed no matter the cost to himself.

Oh I do think he still has romantic feelings for Lavellan (or whomever a player romanced him with). It's just, I also think he thinks of Lavellan as a lesser being. Basically HE is making a great sacrifice by giving Lavellan up because he "HAS TO" do this Great Important Thing.

I think he justifies his actions to himself, and the fact that it pains him to lose Lavellan, whom he still loves, makes him feel even more righteous about his decision.

I'd have to replay Trespasser again (only played it once), and hopefully that won't be long from now -- just finished Adamant. But yes, that's truly the impression I got, BUT of course it is up to interpretation, and anything at this point is basically headcanon

Yes, this. I think this is what I was remembering from Trespasser.

I agree that if he's after something more than just saving the ancient elves, not being honest with Lavellan can be kind of infuriating, as I said, I'd be mostly relieved but also pissed off, though I guess not with Solas, but with the writters Unless they come up with a very good reason for it, I'm afraid it would feel so absurd that is just going to be immersion breaking. Why would Solas paint a worse picture than needed???

But in general I think I see it differently, and trying to grasp why, it might be because I don't feel like he owes her an explanation? I mean in the break-up scene I always go with the dramatic option (because I like the "in another world line" and I think that little bit of dialogue it's beatiful) and then in the rotunda I go to him and pick the agressive option (again, because I like better how the conversation plays that way, because he reacts more emotionally) and it all looks like not only she is disappointed but maybe she also feels betrayed...  But I have to pretend that she reacts like that only because in that moment pain overwhelmes her or something like that, because the truth is I cannot RP my canon Lavellan as thinking that she has a 100% open and honest relationship with Solas, not even close to 100%

I think it might be the main difference between how you see it and how I see it: when I firts played DAI I wasn't expecting at all the break up, or that he was going to leave, let alone that he was an elven god, but all the time I thought he had wierd things, like "I missed court intrigue" and reacting nerviously when sometimes you make some questions, and he always seemed to me very reserved, so I defintely was expecting some sort of secret. I never got that kind of feeling like we're really a team, if you know what I mean, even if he respected and loved her. And that's the thing, I still can believe that even so he respected and loved her

Ok it still bothers me that he leaves wihout saying a word, that was not ok at all , that's probably the thing that I find more hurtful. Well, no, it is more hurtful the idea that he might be planing to destroy the world with her on it But the fact that he doesn't give you an explanation about the break up, or that he leaves because he has to attend matters of which he can't talk to you, or that he doesn't want you to be a part of what he's doing, etc, the fact that he's keeping secrets, I can respect and it's not something that goes totally against the kind of relatonship that I think my Lavellan and him have. So, what he wants to do ("destroying the world") bothers me, but not how (leaving her out of it). 

And I don't feel betrayed, because I said, I never felt there was an unlimmited trust between them, at no point. And that's ok for me, not every romance has to be that kind of romance. Do you think that could be it? What we see differently? Or maybe I'm still missing your point? (and the pain of writing this wall of text in english was completly pointless )

I think if you are willing to let that person - and their entire race - die just to save your own, that you do on some level see them as "lesser." I AM a big Solas fan, so I'm not throwing him under the bus; in fact, I love complicated characters like him, characters who exist in shades of grey instead of black-and-white good/evil. (I was a huge Cullen fan, for instance, and boy did we have lively debates over the whole "Mages aren't like you and me!" lines.)

Again, I think a close comparison could be made between Tolkien elves and humans. The elves are not cruel towards the humans and even strike up friendships with them sometimes. But they do see themselves as superior, and I think your average elf would likely save their own kind over a town of short-lived warmongering humans.

I mean, that's why the romances between the species are so fascinating, right? 

(Does anyone know how to reply to just one sentence of a post and not have to requote the entire thing??)

Because I played with a Lavellan who was very pure of heart I think I am warped into seeing their relationship as more positive than negative. Lavellan fell for someone they admired wholeheartedly (in my playthrough), an older man, a wise person, a gentle and caring person (he cares tremendously throughout the game about the lives of the downtrodden). Solas fell for a person who was young, innocent, naive. It was something that happened against his better judgment; he tried so hard to resist, but ultimately, he couldn't. There is something very romantic in that, very tragic, sure, but also simple and pure.

Again, it's overshadowed by my own playthrough and my starry-eyed Lavellan

Oh yes, that lovely scene...

"I just don't understand. He didn't even say goodbye..."

"The two of you were close... Perhaps he had no choice? He might return at any moment."

"...Maybe."