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Post by Sifr on Jan 8, 2017 2:41:37 GMT
I agree. Even at this point this is just running around in circles. But... circles are pretty. Which reminds me, I need to move my slinky from my old coat to my new one... (Well, what are adults supposed to keep in their pockets, beside keys, coins and rubber-band balls?)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 2:55:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 2:57:16 GMT
Okay, I'm going to ask because this is bothering me. Where does it say Briala is PoC? I've read TME but I never got the impression that she was. The only description I remember is that her skin is darker than Celene's and Celene is quite pale. My sister and I are white, but she has darker skin than me. Her elven lover made soft sleeping sounds, and Celene stroked her hair absently. The black curls lightened to gray with the pre-dawn light, then slid to the light brown of cinnamon as the sun brought colour to the room.Dirt-brown, Celene had called it, when Briala had waited upon her as a girl. Horse-dung brown, an ugly shadow of Celene’s spun-gold locks. Back when they had both been children, before Celene had known the value of having a friend who could be trusted, who wasn’t a competitor in the Game. She watched Briala’s throat, where her pulse fluttered. Her skin was darker than Celene’s, though she spent most of her days inside and showed no tan lines at the bare skin around her eyes. Briala tried to ignore it, but Celene knew that she was quietly ashamed of it. Not the ears that gave her away as elven even beneath the mask, not the lovely liquid eyes, but her sun-touched skin, dotted with a spray of pretty freckles. “You could have woken me earlier.” “Burdens of the empress,” Celene said, and smiled. Her lover’s skin was dark against the creamy white satin of her nightshirt. There's more than a few reasons why a myriad of people have wondered why Briala is depicted as white in Inquisition when her description is that of a woman of color. Still reading through posts and catching up, but this bothers me so I will address it regardless. Pardon if someone has already posted about it. Quote: "Briala is depicted as white in Inquisition when her description is that of a woman of color." Based on the descriptions above. PoC is NEVER implied. Every description is pretty imagery and numerous ways for an author (who likes to expand and use words beyond 'brown' and 'tan') to paint a picture of their character. Your first highlighted, I'm sorry but there are many shades of 'white', tan included, and not every white person has light/fair hair. Our hair comes in deep browns (nearly black) and in some cases, god forbid! black.....(that's sarcasm since your posts have taken a tone of implying white people can't have dark hair) Second highlighted- Ummm...think of the culture (very reminiscent of old Europe aristocracy) brown hair would be considered 'ugly' and not desirable for someone of noble birth, just like how not being pasty as shit would mark you as low-born. Why? Due to it automatically marking you as working class. Third highlighted- I believe my last sentence explains this pretty well but I will say it again. Working outside, being a servant= darker skin. NOT because you are a PoC but because you're not a little vampire and the sun has had a chance to touch you. Your other highlighted are once again, pretty descriptions of stating tan skin is clashing against ghost-white fabric and ghost-white lover. Any hints of gold/brown/etc. in your skin when placed against pasty/ghosty/fair as hell/whatever you want to describe it as, WILL make you look dark. Apologies if this was addressed already or it sounds dickish, it just bothers me when labels such as that are placed where they shouldn't be. It is just a disservice to the author who went to the trouble of creating a setting only for it to be warped solely to push an issue that is not even there. Edit: Balls, of course it made top...
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Post by lobselvith8 on Jan 8, 2017 3:38:16 GMT
Her elven lover made soft sleeping sounds, and Celene stroked her hair absently. The black curls lightened to gray with the pre-dawn light, then slid to the light brown of cinnamon as the sun brought colour to the room.Dirt-brown, Celene had called it, when Briala had waited upon her as a girl. Horse-dung brown, an ugly shadow of Celene’s spun-gold locks. Back when they had both been children, before Celene had known the value of having a friend who could be trusted, who wasn’t a competitor in the Game. She watched Briala’s throat, where her pulse fluttered. Her skin was darker than Celene’s, though she spent most of her days inside and showed no tan lines at the bare skin around her eyes. Briala tried to ignore it, but Celene knew that she was quietly ashamed of it. Not the ears that gave her away as elven even beneath the mask, not the lovely liquid eyes, but her sun-touched skin, dotted with a spray of pretty freckles. “You could have woken me earlier.” “Burdens of the empress,” Celene said, and smiled. Her lover’s skin was dark against the creamy white satin of her nightshirt. There's more than a few reasons why a myriad of people have wondered why Briala is depicted as white in Inquisition when her description is that of a woman of color. Still reading through posts and catching up, but this bothers me so I will address it regardless. Pardon if someone has already posted about it. Quote: "Briala is depicted as white in Inquisition when her description is that of a woman of color." Based on the descriptions above. PoC is NEVER implied. Every description is pretty imagery and numerous ways for an author (who likes to expand and use words beyond 'brown' and 'tan') to paint a picture of their character. Your first highlighted, I'm sorry but there are many shades of 'white', tan included, and not every white person has light/fair hair. Our hair comes in deep browns (nearly black) and in some cases, god forbid! black.....(that's sarcasm since your posts have taken a tone of implying white people can't have dark hair) Second highlighted- Ummm...think of the culture (very reminiscent of old Europe aristocracy) brown hair would be considered 'ugly' and not desirable for someone of noble birth, just like how not being pasty as shit would mark you as low-born. Why? Due to it automatically marking you as working class. Third highlighted- I believe my last sentence explains this pretty well but I will say it again. Working outside, being a servant= darker skin. NOT because you are a PoC but because you're not a little vampire and the sun has had a chance to touch you. Your other highlighted are once again, pretty descriptions of stating tan skin is clashing against ghost-white fabric and ghost-white lover. Any hints of gold/brown/etc. in your skin when placed against pasty/ghosty/fair as hell/whatever you want to describe it as, WILL make you look dark. Apologies if this was addressed already or it sounds dickish, it just bothers me when labels such as that are placed where they shouldn't be. It is just a disservice to the author who went to the trouble of creating a setting only for it to be warped solely to push an issue that is not even there. I don't see how you can claim that Briala isn't described as a woman of color when the descriptions make a direct contrast between Briala not being white in comparison to both a white woman (Celene) and white attire. And I don't see the point to your "sarcasm" - were you trying to be funny? Because what you claimed about what I said isn't even remotely grounded in reality. Plenty of people work outside and are white; that doesn't automatically mean that one has dark skin. I guess I'm not looking to do a myriad of mental gymnastics to make Briala into a white woman. If numerous descriptions describe a woman who isn't white, I'm not going to stretch the limits of my imagination to explain how she's actually a white woman and not a woman who isn't white.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 3:58:32 GMT
I don't see how you can claim that Briala isn't described as a woman of color when the descriptions make a direct contrast between Briala not being white in comparison to both a white woman (Celene) and white attire. And I don't see the point to your "sarcasm" - were you trying to be funny? Because what you claimed about what I said isn't even remotely grounded in reality. Plenty of people work outside and are white; that doesn't automatically mean that one has dark skin. I guess I'm not looking to do a myriad of mental gymnastics to make Briala into a white woman. If numerous descriptions describe a woman who isn't white, I'm not going to stretch the limits of my imagination to explain how she's actually a white woman and not a woman who isn't white. Pffftt....I don't know where to even begin....so by your definition anyone who isn't described as having ghost/porcelain skin is a PoC. Aiya...well I was pretty thorough in my basis for each of your highlights and considering I have now caught up on the thread, I will end this here. You obviously haven't read many books that use imagery otherwise you wouldn't harp so adamantly on Briala being anything but a PoC. There have been posters before me who have discussed and refuted your argument with logic and sound reasoning yet you are beating this non-existent horse quite determinedly. At this point anything I write is basically like speaking with my carpet. I know when to spot individuals who refuse to yield or admit they may be wrong even when mountains of facts and examples are lain out to them.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 4:00:17 GMT
Solas vs. Iron Bull
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 8, 2017 4:04:17 GMT
Solas vs. Iron Bull *gasp* the anime disease!
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Post by lobselvith8 on Jan 8, 2017 4:09:03 GMT
I don't see how you can claim that Briala isn't described as a woman of color when the descriptions make a direct contrast between Briala not being white in comparison to both a white woman (Celene) and white attire. And I don't see the point to your "sarcasm" - were you trying to be funny? Because what you claimed about what I said isn't even remotely grounded in reality. Plenty of people work outside and are white; that doesn't automatically mean that one has dark skin. I guess I'm not looking to do a myriad of mental gymnastics to make Briala into a white woman. If numerous descriptions describe a woman who isn't white, I'm not going to stretch the limits of my imagination to explain how she's actually a white woman and not a woman who isn't white. Pffftt....I don't know where to even begin....so by your definition anyone who isn't described as having ghost/porcelain skin is a PoC. Aiya...well I was pretty thorough in my basis for each of your highlights and considering I have now caught up on the thread, I will end this here. You obviously haven't read many books that use imagery otherwise you wouldn't harp so adamantly on Briala being anything but a PoC. There have been posters before me who have discussed and refuted your argument with logic and sound reasoning yet you are beating this non-existent horse quite determinedly. At this point anything I write is basically like speaking with my carpet. I know when to spot individuals who refuse to yield or admit they may be wrong even when mountains of facts and examples are lain out to them. You seem to go through great lengths to try and explain how Briala is actually a white woman, despite the fact that TME describes her as not being white. I'm sure you think your condescension is merited because I'm disinclined to believe you over the actual book - similar to how the multitude of artists who depict Briala as a WoC base their interpretation on the book, or the modder who goes through the trouble of making Briala resemble her description in the novel. Then again, this is the same thread where someone claimed that MLK wouldn't want diversity in entertainment, despite me pointing out that MLK did want diversity in television through an actual quote, so I'm not expecting much from this thread at this point.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 4:13:27 GMT
You seem to go through great lengths to try and explain how Briala is actually a white woman, despite the fact that TME describes her as not being white. I'm sure you think your condescension is merited because I'm disinclined to believe you over the actual book - similar to how the multitude of artists who depict Briala as a WoC base their interpretation on the book, or the modder who goes through the trouble of making Briala resemble her description in the novel. Then again, this is the same thread where someone claimed that MLK wouldn't want diversity in entertainment, despite me pointing out that MLK did want diversity in television through an actual quote, so I'm not expecting much from this thread at this point. TME stated Briala is black? I haven't gone through TME so I apologize. I only posted in relation to your quote. Edit: Actually I retract this because there is no actual basis for your claim. It's still you just pushing an agenda.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jan 8, 2017 4:18:04 GMT
Pffftt....I don't know where to even begin....so by your definition anyone who isn't described as having ghost/porcelain skin is a PoC. Aiya...well I was pretty thorough in my basis for each of your highlights and considering I have now caught up on the thread, I will end this here. You obviously haven't read many books that use imagery otherwise you wouldn't harp so adamantly on Briala being anything but a PoC. There have been posters before me who have discussed and refuted your argument with logic and sound reasoning yet you are beating this non-existent horse quite determinedly. At this point anything I write is basically like speaking with my carpet. I know when to spot individuals who refuse to yield or admit they may be wrong even when mountains of facts and examples are lain out to them. Then again, this is the same thread where someone claimed that MLK wouldn't want diversity in entertainment, despite me pointing out that MLK did want diversity in television through an actual quote, so I'm not expecting much from this thread at this point. You've been thoroughly rebutted here, so as not to take this thread hostage. I tagged you, you should already know this.
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Post by lobselvith8 on Jan 8, 2017 4:21:38 GMT
Then again, this is the same thread where someone claimed that MLK wouldn't want diversity in entertainment, despite me pointing out that MLK did want diversity in television through an actual quote, so I'm not expecting much from this thread at this point. You've been thoroughly rebutted here, so as not to take this thread hostage. I tagged you, you should already know this. If by "rebuked" you mean you provided absolutely no evidence that MLK was against diversity in entertainment, then sure.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jan 8, 2017 4:25:56 GMT
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 8, 2017 4:28:25 GMT
I don't see how you can claim that Briala isn't described as a woman of color when the descriptions make a direct contrast between Briala not being white in comparison to both a white woman (Celene) and white attire. You know there are many skin tones in what one could consider a white person, and some of those can be dark when up against pale white right? For example: These two ladies are sisters and both white, and yet Ashley looks dark compared to her sister Sarah.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 4:29:01 GMT
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Post by lobselvith8 on Jan 8, 2017 4:35:18 GMT
I don't see how you can claim that Briala isn't described as a woman of color when the descriptions make a direct contrast between Briala not being white in comparison to both a white woman (Celene) and white attire. You know there are many skin tones in what one could consider a white person, and some of those can be dark when up against pale white right? For example: These two ladies are sisters and both white, and yet Ashley looks dark compared to her sister Sarah. Except we're addressing Briala, whom Celene (in TME) described as having "dirt brown" skin. I guess I'm less inclined to go through ridiculous lengths to say that a character who is specifically described as a woman of color is actually white because, while Inquisition depicted her as a white woman, TME described her as a woman of color.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 8, 2017 4:37:47 GMT
You know there are many skin tones in what one could consider a white person, and some of those can be dark when up against pale white right? For example: These two ladies are sisters and both white, and yet Ashley looks dark compared to her sister Sarah. Except we're addressing Briala, whom Celene (in TME) described as having "dirt brown" skin. I guess I'm less inclined to go through ridiculous lengths to say that a character who is specifically described as a woman of color is actually white because Inquisition depicted her as a white woman while TME described her as a woman of color. You could describe Ashley as having dirt brown skin(a strange term to use anyway since dirt can be many shades of brown) too, yet she is white and a similar color to Briala in DAI. No, you're just inclined to go through ridiculous lengths to say a character who is described as being darker than a really pale person to be a PoC despite nothing in the book supporting you over those arguing otherwise in order to force some racial narrative. Now what does this have to do about Solas?
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jan 8, 2017 4:41:14 GMT
You know there are many skin tones in what one could consider a white person, and some of those can be dark when up against pale white right? For example: These two ladies are sisters and both white, and yet Ashley looks dark compared to her sister Sarah. Except we're addressing Briala, whom Celene (in TME) described as having "dirt brown" skin. I guess I'm less inclined to go through ridiculous lengths to say that a character who is specifically described as a woman of color is actually white because, while Inquisition depicted her as a white woman, TME described her as a woman of color. "Dirt brown" was a description of the color of Briala's hair, not her skin, in the quotes provided. Her elven lover made soft sleeping sounds, and Celene stroked her hair absently. The black curls lightened to gray with the pre-dawn light, then slid to the light brown of cinnamon as the sun brought colour to the room.
Dirt-brown, Celene had called it, when Briala had waited upon her as a girl. Horse-dung brown, an ugly shadow of Celene’s spun-gold locks.
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Post by lobselvith8 on Jan 8, 2017 4:42:17 GMT
Except we're addressing Briala, whom Celene (in TME) described as having "dirt brown" skin. I guess I'm less inclined to go through ridiculous lengths to say that a character who is specifically described as a woman of color is actually white because Inquisition depicted her as a white woman while TME described her as a woman of color. No, you're just inclined to go through ridiculous lengths to say a character who is described as being darker than a really pale person to be a PoC despite nothing in the book supporting you over those arguing otherwise. Now what does this have to do about Solas? Aside from the character descriptions that described her as a woman of color, you mean, like Celene describing Briala as having dark skin. As for your last comment, that's entirely fair. Then again, instead of trying to veer us back on topic, you instead decided to continue the conversation at hand. That didn't have anything to do with Solas, which seems counterintuitive to your criticism.
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 8, 2017 4:49:00 GMT
... Guys, this is going round in pretzels now and it's obvious that nobody will budge from their position. Apparently all "darkskinned" people are POC, logic be damned, etc. This is really not worth those few pages - you'd better try and invent what else is there that we can actually talk about that we haven't talked about ad nauseam
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 4:50:04 GMT
No, you're just inclined to go through ridiculous lengths to say a character who is described as being darker than a really pale person to be a PoC despite nothing in the book supporting you over those arguing otherwise. Now what does this have to do about Solas? Aside from the character descriptions that described her as a woman of color, you mean, like Celene describing Briala as having dark skin. As for your last comment, that's entirely fair. Then again, instead of trying to veer us back on topic, you instead decided to continue the conversation at hand. That didn't have anything to do with Solas, which seems counterintuitive to your criticism. As Faceman said above, the quote is saying her hair is dirt brown, compared to Celene's golden hair, not her skin. Briala is darker-skinned than Celene if you look at them side to side in the same lighting, which is what the book called for: And her hair is dark brown if you mod off her stupid hat:
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 4:50:47 GMT
No, you're just inclined to go through ridiculous lengths to say a character who is described as being darker than a really pale person to be a PoC despite nothing in the book supporting you over those arguing otherwise. Now what does this have to do about Solas? Aside from the character descriptions that described her as a woman of color, you mean, like Celene describing Briala as having dark skin. As for your last comment, that's entirely fair. Then again, instead of trying to veer us back on topic, you instead decided to continue the conversation at hand. That didn't have anything to do with Solas, which seems counterintuitive to your criticism. To be fair, Hanako is replying to your direct argument that Solas, Sera, AND Briala were supposed to be PoC even though your basis of Solas being PoC was due to some CONCEPT sketches. Concepts change all the time, it's why they are called concepts. By that same token why aren't you rambling in circles about Solas being bald? How dare the developers ignore us hairies???!!
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Post by lobselvith8 on Jan 8, 2017 4:53:10 GMT
Except we're addressing Briala, whom Celene (in TME) described as having "dirt brown" skin. I guess I'm less inclined to go through ridiculous lengths to say that a character who is specifically described as a woman of color is actually white because, while Inquisition depicted her as a white woman, TME described her as a woman of color. "Dirt brown" was a description of the color of Briala's hair, not her skin, in the quotes provided. Her elven lover made soft sleeping sounds, and Celene stroked her hair absently. The black curls lightened to gray with the pre-dawn light, then slid to the light brown of cinnamon as the sun brought colour to the room.
Dirt-brown, Celene had called it, when Briala had waited upon her as a girl. Horse-dung brown, an ugly shadow of Celene’s spun-gold locks.True. I should have used one of the lines about how Briala's skin is dark in comparison to a white woman or Celene's white bed mattress. Her type of hair simply adds another reason why people identify her as a woman of color when you look at the artist renditions of the character by people who read TME.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jan 8, 2017 4:54:13 GMT
... Guys, this is going round in pretzels now and it's obvious that nobody will budge from their position. Apparently all "darkskinned" people are POC, logic be damned, etc. This is really not worth those few pages - you'd better try and invent what else is there that we can actually talk about that we haven't talked about ad nauseam Did you say pretzels so I wouldn't do this again? Because I'm gonna do this again because pretty colors. And Solas!
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Post by colonelkillabee on Jan 8, 2017 4:56:48 GMT
What the hell has happened to the blanketfort, lol.
"Dirt brown" would have been a rather poor way to describe someone's skin color if that were the case lol and since this is bioware...
They went out of their way to add interracial human npcs with mixed children, and people of color in a game based on European cultures aside from in Rivain, so I'm inclined to believe if she was supposed to be black or brown, she would have been.
edit: Rivain and Antiva, as far as Thedas goes.
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August 2016
lobselvith8
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by lobselvith8 on Jan 8, 2017 4:58:27 GMT
Aside from the character descriptions that described her as a woman of color, you mean, like Celene describing Briala as having dark skin. As for your last comment, that's entirely fair. Then again, instead of trying to veer us back on topic, you instead decided to continue the conversation at hand. That didn't have anything to do with Solas, which seems counterintuitive to your criticism. To be fair, Hanako is replying to your direct argument that Solas, Sera, AND Briala were supposed to be PoC even though your basis of Solas being PoC was due to some CONCEPT sketches. Concepts change all the time, it's why they are called concepts. By that same token why aren't you rambling in circles about Solas being bald? How dare the developers ignore us hairies???!! Except Hanako didn't address my comment about the earlier depictions of Sera and Solas, so that doesn't seem to be the case. And, as I'm sure you're well aware, I gave the comment about the original depiction of Sera and Solas a single line before someone decided to take umbrage with it and pull 'identity politics'. So you're criticizing me for responding, yet you're defending someone because you wrongly think they're responding to something they clearly aren't. That seems rather hypocritical of you.
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