The Blanketfort (crying and throwing up) - The Official Solas Thread [Spoilers]

So I guess the answer to my question is, "Not that much, but likely more than some might expect".

As for the elven council in Wycome, it pains me that we have no tiles in the Keep about the fate of clan Lavellan. Of course, it would never be relevant in DA4 regardless, but we would know that in our world, that beautiful achievement is canon.

I am basing my comments on the fact that there was no one unified stance among Andrastrians prior to Drakon. World of Thedas 2 maintains that at that time "each clan had its own variety of the cult of Andraste, its own rituals, traditions and version of Andraste's words". We also know that Ameridan was able to reconcile his belief in the elven gods with his faith in Andraste, so why wouldn't it have been possible for some of the surrounding tribes to take a similar view of the Dalish beliefs? Certainly, in what became Ferelden, it is suggested that for a long time, faith in the Maker was conducted alongside their existing animist beliefs.

I also look at the fact that the original Inquisition existed for around 100 years prior to the establishment of Orlais, with no apparent conflict with the Dales and in fact some recruits coming from elves like Ameridan. It was said in JoH that the reason Drakon asked Ameridan to take over the leadership of the Inquisition and bring it into the Chantry fold, is that members of that organisation were wary of Drakon but trusted Ameridan. This trust proved misplaced because Ameridan was already aware of Drakon's desire to "simplify" things and extend his empire yet went ahead and co-operated with his plan to incorporate a previously independent group into his official sanctioned religion. However, I suppose it is possible that Ameridan realised that if they didn't do this, Drakon would wipe them out as well.

Now I acknowledge this is all just my assessment of the situation, based off the information given, but not the direction that the writers of the game seemed to wish us to take. It is clear they were trying to push in the direction of the leadership in the Dales being at fault, with every character supporting that interpretation in JoH, without any defence being made from the other side as to why they maintained the stance they did, other than they thought Drakon "no better than Tevinter", which on all the available evidence, inside and outside the game, was true. I do think the Dalish were at fault for maintaining an isolationist stance during the time Drakon was establishing his empire, since if they had pushed back against it and supported the independent clans his success might not have been so absolute, but not for their lack of support for his empire subsequently, except from an entirely pragmatic viewpoint (which is the one that Ameridan seems to hold). As it is, Drakon never moved against them himself, despite their lack of support for him personally against the darkspawn (I maintain that they still would have supported the Grey Wardens) or for holding religious beliefs contrary to his own (which suggests he honoured Ameridan that much), so it could be argued that not involving themselves in human affairs had paid off for them up to his death. However, a powerful empire with a state religion on their doorstep was always going to be a threat to them, as it subsequently proved.

Anyway, that is all water under the bridge now. Gameplay is moving to Tevinter and I dare say that by the end of DA:D there will be changes to the status quo. I'm hoping that the elves end up getting back Arlathan Forest officially and that is the situation going forward but we shall see.

1. I think this is totally up to us, the individual players, to decide based on our impressions of Dalish elves in general and on how we roleplayed our Lavellans in particular. It would totally be head canon, anyway, not BioWare-canon. 

2. They can do whatever they want about it. This, too, for now, is totally just headcanons for players. My Lavellan kept her vallaslin when Solas offered to remove them after explaining that they were slave markings in ancient Elvhenan society. Her reasoning is that whatever the vallaslin may once have meant, they had become marks of a rite of passage to adulthood among Dalish elves. (That part about them being part of a Dalish rite of passage is in fact BioWare canon.) So she chose to keep hers because they were important to her. Other players choose that the fact that they were once slave markings is repugnant to their Lavellans, so they have them removed. If, in future game(s) it turns out that the vallaslin, though thousands of years removed from the original rituals, still mean that the Evanuris have power over the people bearing their markings, then I think my Lavellan would re-think her decision. But at this time, we have no reason to believe that the tattoo process currently in use is some sort of binding ritual that has been perfectly remembered and passed down for centuries. (Indeed, based on how much the Dalish don't remember/know about ancient elves, it is more likely that current vallaslin are not done in a way that actually magically binds elves to Evanuris.)

As Ladyiolanthe says, they now have their own meaning for the Dalish as a rite of passage and symbol of the independence, which is not harmed by Solas' revelations about the gods. They are now the sign of the elves who "will never again submit", which may seem ironic but is a valid enough meaning for them to be retained as part of their culture. Their view of the Creators, even if erroneous, is as positive role models. You take the vallaslin of a particular god because you are going to endeavour to emulate them. So, with a bit of simple adjustment to the label attached to them, the vallaslin can now signify a commitment to a certain role in life: protector; hunter; hearth keeper; crafter; lore keeper; etc. Thus, there would be no need to abandon them entirely just because of recent revelations.

However, I think most Dalish would question the source of the information. Fen'Harel is traditionally in opposition to the gods, although trusted by them. The fact that they only have the word of the Dread Wolf and his followers that the vallaslin were slave markings is not a strong argument against them. Why should they reject the vallaslin of, say, Mythal when he even admits that she cared for her people, just as they always believed. It might actually be more damaging to her reputation to learn that she has been alive all this time and yet not actively doing more for them. On the other hand, they might accept that she was limited in what she could do, being constrained by her reduced power and human form. Also, if they are honest about it, there will be many Keepers who will admit that they have been assisted by Flemeth down the years, so in a way Mythal has been helping them.

Ultimately, it is up to the individual Dalish what they do with the information but I think it unlikely that they would reject the vallaslin wholesale as a group without a better justification than the words of Fen'Harel.

1. Well then, what would your headcanon be?

2. I was thinking more about the clans, rather than our character.

I was just thinking about the decision to disband the Inquisition.

For inquisitors of other races, it may be more about their ability to let go of something they've built, but for Lavellan it is more complicated. For starters, s/he may have their clan to worry about. They need the Inquisition's support if they are to continue to thrive in Wycome (at least until Varric offers to help).

And if s/he helped Briala rise to power, there is the concern about what might happen to all that effort on behalf of the elves of Orlais, if the Inquisition isn't there to keep her on the shadow throne (at least a little longer).

If it had been a case of keeping the Inquisition going as an independent organisation, then my male Lavellan would probably have done so. However, he was mindful of what happened to the first Inquisition after it was incorporated into the Chantry. It might be okay so long as Leliana was Divine but she wouldn't live forever and was in constant danger of assassination, so he preferred to disband rather than leave it as the Divine's private army/enforcers because he could see them becoming the Templars mark 2 and he hadn't dissolved that order, only to have it spring up again from the remains of his organisation. Briala had probably established her own spy network in the interim period, so would probably be able to survive initially with Divine Leliana's help. Varric was giving backing to his clan in Wycombe and given the importance of Kirkwall that would probably go a long way to keeping things going without the Inquisition, particularly as Lavellan now had holdings in Kirkwall himself. He was also mindful of the fact that Leliana had recommended disbanding and working from the shadows, so it seemed wise to follow her advice.

My female Solamancer Lavellan was something of an emotional wreck at the end of Trespasser, so felt it best to hand over the organisation to Divine Cassandra and trusted her to do the right thing with it. She had Celene, Gaspard and Briala working together, so that wasn't really a factor.

Arguably, their poverty is due in large part to the prejudice directed toward them by humans. It's hard to bust out of poverty when you're enslaved, or if free, the only jobs people will hire you for are low-paying servant jobs. And being forced to live in the oldest, least-maintained, least-serviced parts of cities compounds this - if you are paid very little, it is hard to get your home fixed when it starts leaking or the chimney crumbles, increasing the risk of house fires, etc. It's hard to bust out of poverty if you can't afford or won't be accepted into higher education schools because of your race, and won't be given any help by most of the more fortunate people for the same reason.

This was addressed to some extent in the city elf origin. I can't remember if it was a conversation or a codex but essentially the reason the city elves were stuck in poverty was the prejudice against them. Apparently, some elves who managed to establish a business and had a degree of success, moved out of the alienage but were forced back by human aggression, having lost everything to the mob. It was said that the alienage walls protected the elves as well as shutting them in. Also, in Masked Empire there was an elven wheelwright whose business was successful enough that he had customers from outside the alienage but the problem was the human nobles were tardy with their payment for work done. This could, of course, have been a problem that all commoners suffered from when dealing with the nobility.

However, isn't there an outcome where Soris marries a human and ends up moving to Highever where he successfully establishes himself? That was interesting because you would think the prejudice would be greater where there was intermarriage, but all the antagonism appears to have come from his own alienage.

Anyway, without the prejudice against them, those elves who wished to improve themselves probably could but would be limited in much the same way as human commoners depending upon the class system in place in a particular nation. Orlais is very rigid in its class structure, Ferelden less so with non-noble freeholders having much more status and power than those at a similar level in their neighbouring state. In theory, an elf could rise to be head of a city state in the Freemarches if they had the right connections. Whilst the royalty in Antiva would appear to be human, the Crow leadership structure seems to allow for an elf to rise to the top. In Tevinter Nights at least two of the Talons are elves, so clearly where a heirarchy is based on ability rather than race, it is possible for a humble city elf to succeed. Nowhere is this more apparent than in the old Circles in the south. Because the prejudice there was directed entirely against magic, several First Enchanters were elves. Admittedly, in some cases, like Kirkwall, no one really wanted the job, but nevertheless, even at the White Spire in Orlais, an elf was First Enchanter and, of course, this was also true of Grand Enchanter Fiona, who would only have achieved that status if enough of the other First Enchanters voted for her.

It will be interesting to see how things are depicted once we get to Minrathous.   Clearly some elves there do live in poverty but I don't recall that there is prejudice to limit them as found in the south.   Soporati elves presumably have the same opportunities as other citizens to succeed if they work at it.   Those who demonstrate magic will automatically be elevated to the next level in the social structure.    Even Liberati have the possibility to advance themselves even if certain professions and opportunities are denied to them as non-citizens.    Anyway, I hope that the writers have kept to the lore of WoT and do not imply that every elf is either a slave or Liberati.    I am slightly bothered by the fact that when Sera is talking with Dorian, she comments that he has never met an elf who wasn't a slave and he agrees that is true.   Whilst an Altus might not see much beyond their own household, Dorian spent a period of time in his youth in a house of ill repute in the elven slums.   I imagine they weren't all slaves, although apparently living in poverty.    Presumably this may be where he formed his idea that slaves in his family were better off than being free.    I hope that it isn't just a choice between slavery or poverty for elves in Tevinter.

The point I was making is that it is not race that is the determining factor for how you are treated but social standing. Clearly, since there are no noble elves that would suggest a degree of racial bias but the fact is that human commoners and elves are treated pretty much the same, that is equally badly. Plus the fact that elves have been able to achieve First Enchanter/Grand Enchanter status would suggest that among the mages of the Circles race is not an issue as it is outside. Essentially, to the Chantry being a mage and being an elf are pretty much equal in terms of prejudice against them and this spills over into the wider population. However, if you are part of the oppressed groups then obviously there is a degree of solidarity that means you unite against the oppressor. If the elf First Enchanter is fighting for your rights, you aren't going to denigrate him for being an elf (at least not to their face). Also, I don't recall the term "knife ear" being bandied about when I played the mage origin as an elf.

Again, though that has nothing to do with race, just who would make the most plausible target for your treachery. One thing that wasn't really apparent in the game but was highlighted in WoT2, is that Uldred was deliberately encouraging young mages to dabble in forbidden magic and then betraying them to the Templars, thus deflecting suspicion from himself. Presumably the young mages never realised he had done this and just assumed the Templars were doing their job. Rather ironic really since most of the problems we encounter in both DAO and DA2 concerning mages seem to result from the Templars not doing their job properly or being stopped from doing it by those higher up in their order. For example, both Irving and Greagoir must have been naive or stupid not to realise what Uldred was up to sooner, whilst in DA2 the one Templar, Emerick, who was doing his job of rooting out dangerous magic in the community, was constantly thwarted by his commander. Then Meredith had the cheek to suggest that it was a failure on Hawke's part that they couldn't protect their mother. I found it rather odd how Kirkwall was the main base of the Templars in the Freemarches, yet the city was overrun with apostates. I never quite understood that. It is almost like the more Templars you apply to the problem, the greater it becomes. That must be a moral in that somewhere.