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Post by KaiserShep on May 26, 2020 23:15:27 GMT
The circular logic at work here is why I find this reasoning suspect. You want an interesting backstory, but you don’t want to actually have any involvement in that backstory, like major story missions where we the player can play a role in how it turns out. You just want a new protagonist. The backstory is not really important. Why would I want to relegate an interesting story to the codex when I could just play it, if for no other reason than to sweep as much as possible under the proverbial rug in an attempt to start kind of anew? That would probably involve having to deal with that hero we don’t want. We can’t have that. I wasn’t angry at next gen not letting we watch the prior 60+ years in sequence. I’m not angry that games have a rich history i get to savor that I didn’t play a role in every aspect of. Sorry opposite. They could buck Rogers Ryder as far as i’m Concerned. Backstory is hugely important and putting setting in overnight to mature is paramount to me. You should probably wait another 20+ years before trying to make the comparison to Star Trek. TOS’s final episode aired in 1969, and TNG’s first in 1987. Anyway, no one cares about the time in between. All anyone cares about is what TOS itself established, and that’s what supports TNG, similarly to how Deep Space Nine frames our new protagonist with a major event from TNG with the battle of Wolf 359 to kick it off. Whether you like it or not, we already have all the history we require. I do like how there’s no mention of the fact that there’s a lot of gaps in the things we have hints of so far in the setting, like more about the Jardaan, and any other things that might still be hidden across the cluster that the writers could have us discover. Opting only for the massive time jump while leaving the currently established things open doesn’t really say much about wanting history. Stop lying. You just want to age the characters out. It’s OK.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 27, 2020 15:30:45 GMT
1. No, it's clear you don't understand that the Reapers don't want to harvest lesser species like your space hamster or fish, because they only harvest things that pose a threat to them. The synthesis option does just that. It harvests all the advanced organic life in the galaxy, and forges their DNA with Reaper tech. However I mentioned earlier, you must be broken down on a molecular level and they essentially remake you as one of them.
2. The control function part of the Crucible's design, as per the VI on Thessia. They had indoctrinated agents sabotaging the project. If defeating the Reapers was as simple as having a conversation with their so-called leader, and if you have enough EMS, you can successfully convince them to shut off the Reapers. I would be pissed if there was such an option. This ultimately boils down to why can't Shepard, his crew, and all the organics survive and have a happy ending. Mike even said the same thing. Why does Shepard have to be sacrificed? As was mentioned in the ending notes, Shepard jumping into the beam and offering his body to the Reapers, acts like a seed, which then the Crucible and the mass relays spread it around the galaxy, changing everyone's DNA into Reapers, etc.
3. The exact conversation has the Illusive Man say that the Crucible will allow him to control the Reapers. Then Shepard can say "the Reapers built the relays. It's all part of the same trap"! 4. You missed the part about them having Reaper agents sabotaging the project suggesting control as a possible option. There was also a line from EDI during the Sur'Kesh mission, where "every cycle has its traitors". Cerberus in this cycle. That splinter group in Javik's cycle. Etc, etc.
Zero arguments, yet again. Thank you for your contribution. You are confusing causation with correlation. You've made a very basic logical fallacy. You have not presented a logical argument why the Crucible has to do anything that the Reapers' MO dictates.
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wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,632 Likes: 2,469
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Post by wright1978 on May 27, 2020 18:13:27 GMT
I wasn’t angry at next gen not letting we watch the prior 60+ years in sequence. I’m not angry that games have a rich history i get to savor that I didn’t play a role in every aspect of. Sorry opposite. They could buck Rogers Ryder as far as i’m Concerned. Backstory is hugely important and putting setting in overnight to mature is paramount to me. You should probably wait another 20+ years before trying to make the comparison to Star Trek. TOS’s final episode aired in 1969, and TNG’s first in 1987. Anyway, no one cares about the time in between. All anyone cares about is what TOS itself established, and that’s what supports TNG, similarly to how Deep Space Nine frames our new protagonist with a major event from TNG with the battle of Wolf 359 to kick it off. Whether you like it or not, we already have all the history we require. I do like how there’s no mention of the fact that there’s a lot of gaps in the things we have hints of so far in the setting, like more about the Jardaan, and any other things that might still be hidden across the cluster that the writers could have us discover. Opting only for the massive time jump while leaving the currently established things open doesn’t really say much about wanting history. Stop lying. You just want to age the characters out. It’s OK. Of course they care about the time between it informs the setting. It's why they didn't set it a couple of years after undiscovered country.
No reason you can't discover more about the Jaardaan at a later date when the setting is more developed. We learned more about protheans despite them already being a presence in the setting. For the last time(I don't care about ageing the characters(get the whole crew stuck in cryo freezers for all i care) i care about maturing the transplanted setting).
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on May 27, 2020 19:10:45 GMT
You should probably wait another 20+ years before trying to make the comparison to Star Trek. TOS’s final episode aired in 1969, and TNG’s first in 1987. Anyway, no one cares about the time in between. All anyone cares about is what TOS itself established, and that’s what supports TNG, similarly to how Deep Space Nine frames our new protagonist with a major event from TNG with the battle of Wolf 359 to kick it off. Whether you like it or not, we already have all the history we require. I do like how there’s no mention of the fact that there’s a lot of gaps in the things we have hints of so far in the setting, like more about the Jardaan, and any other things that might still be hidden across the cluster that the writers could have us discover. Opting only for the massive time jump while leaving the currently established things open doesn’t really say much about wanting history. Stop lying. You just want to age the characters out. It’s OK. Of course they care about the time between it informs the setting. It's why they didn't set it a couple of years after undiscovered country.
No reason you can't discover more about the Jaardaan at a later date when the setting is more developed. We learned more about protheans despite them already being a presence in the setting. For the last time(I don't care about ageing the characters(get the whole crew stuck in cryo freezers for all i care) i care about maturing the transplanted setting).
No reason we can’t discover more about the Jardaan sooner either. Fast-forwarding to a setting with more people in it doesn’t have anything to do with that. I don’t see how the Protheans example helps, because we learn everything we need to know about them entirely from Shepard’s perspective. There’s no good reason why Ryder shouldn’t get the same treatment, especially since this is the only human being with the capacity to manipulate the core Remnant systems and has the closest tie to the narrative around it. If it’s a simple matter of preference to not follow that thread, that’s one thing, but there’s no necessity to move away from it either.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 28, 2020 14:01:14 GMT
There’s no good reason why Ryder shouldn’t get the same treatment Because Bioware didn't necessarily had in mind to develop sequels with Ryder in particular and, virtually, nobody liked Ryder. I understand people here like Ryder, but the overwhelming majority and one of the big criticisms of Andromeda was Ryder himself. That's why.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on May 28, 2020 14:29:16 GMT
There’s no good reason why Ryder shouldn’t get the same treatment Because Bioware didn't necessarily had in mind to develop sequels with Ryder in particular and, virtually, nobody liked Ryder. I understand people here like Ryder, but the overwhelming majority and one of the big criticisms of Andromeda was Ryder himself. That's why. Well then that would be a preference reason, not this cockamamie maturing the setting nonsense.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 28, 2020 14:43:52 GMT
Well then that would be a preference reason, not this cockamamie maturing the setting nonsense Technically, they would be "maturing" the setting, because Andromeda felt empty, by many an account, and to avoid having to deal with Ryder and where or what Ryder is doing. The reason why we went to Andromeda was, after all, to escape the ME3 endings, because Bioware wanted to make a prequel, but the fans wanted a sequel. You can make any statement you want, about anything you do, if you're creative enough about wording it. Bioware could come out and say "our plan had always been to explore Andromeda, which is why we nuked the Milky Way". And JJ Abrams could say that it was always part of the plan to bring back Palpatine for episode 9.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on May 28, 2020 15:04:48 GMT
Where did BioWare say that they wanted a prequel? Just as well they didn’t bother, since prequels are shit.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 28, 2020 15:24:39 GMT
Where did BioWare say that they wanted a prequel? Just as well they didn’t bother, since prequels are shit. www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/bioware-asks-fans-if-next-mass-effect-should-be-prequel-or-sequel-3614105.htmlThey basically wanted to do anything that isn't a sequel to ME3. And I've read articles how the prequel idea was a "first contact" scenario, which they did anyway, with the Angara, in Andromeda. Also, to direct to the ign article once again, Bioware had no plan going forward, other than, vaguely put, "continue adding to the series". Technically, you could make an Andromeda prequel, where you play as Shepard and co., tie it to the Initiative, before they left the Milky Way and you would still be making an Andromeda game.
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Post by Phantom on May 28, 2020 15:59:40 GMT
Where did BioWare say that they wanted a prequel? Just as well they didn’t bother, since prequels are shit. Well poorly written prequels are shit. To me, poorly written anything is shit. I have a MEA prequel idea that needs a lot of work that has a New Player Character, Sets in the Milk way and has either leads to what is the true nature of Mysterious Benefactor while confirming that Cerberus and T.I.M. having no true ties to Mysterious Benefactor. Also it would be interesting to play as the Ryder twins without S.A.M. for same amount of time as Non S.A.M. Ryder Twin in ME:A game if not longer.
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Post by themikefest on May 28, 2020 16:10:06 GMT
I'm not a fan of a prequel though I would likely buy it. Of course if they do have a prequel where I can play as a reaper beside my good friend Harbinger, that would be a preorder.
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wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,632 Likes: 2,469
inherit
1492
0
2,469
wright1978
1,632
Sept 8, 2016 12:06:29 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by wright1978 on May 28, 2020 16:41:05 GMT
I see zero merit in the notion of a prequel.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 28, 2020 16:52:04 GMT
I see zero merit in the notion of a prequel. Do you see more merit to the sequel of a dropped on release game, with 7 years between releases, at the earliest?
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Post by Phantom on May 28, 2020 17:03:47 GMT
I do see the merits of a good game regardless.
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wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,632 Likes: 2,469
inherit
1492
0
2,469
wright1978
1,632
Sept 8, 2016 12:06:29 GMT
September 2016
wright1978
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by wright1978 on May 28, 2020 17:04:44 GMT
I see zero merit in the notion of a prequel. Do you see more merit to the sequel of a dropped on release game, with 7 years between releases, at the earliest? Yeah there's more merit in that space. There's more merit to them picking their ME3 edning poison of choice too.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 28, 2020 17:05:35 GMT
I do see the merits of a good game regardless. But a business sees more merits in a mediocre game that people would rather buy, than a good game that figuratively nobody cares to buy.
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Post by Phantom on May 28, 2020 17:11:20 GMT
I do see the merits of a good game regardless. But a business sees more merits in a mediocre game that people would rather buy, than a good game that figuratively nobody cares to buy. Mediocre games are easier to produce quickly. Also a good game takes time to be good. In Short, if bioware decides to do a ME:A2, I rather have them to take their time with a good development cycle and a large budget to make it better than ME:A1. ME:A fans deserve a superb ME:A2 game.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 28, 2020 17:14:52 GMT
I'm not a fan of a prequel though I would likely buy it. Of course if they do have a prequel where I can play as a reaper beside my good friend Harbinger, that would be a preorder. Only if we can romance a destroyer.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on May 28, 2020 17:28:50 GMT
I do see the merits of a good game regardless. But a business sees more merits in a mediocre game that people would rather buy, than a good game that figuratively nobody cares to buy. Perhaps, but as a customer, only the merit of the game matters. However much the company profits from it only matters to us insofar that it determines whether or not we get more of that from them specifically. If we got a really good game, but the developer suffers financially, well that’s too bad for them, but we got a good product out of it.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 28, 2020 17:38:43 GMT
Mediocre games are easier to produce quickly Is it? Anthem took 7 years, apparently. 8 now and it's still not even mediocre. ME:A fans deserve a superb ME:A2 game. All 5 of them. I kid, I kid, I kid. In all honesty, Andromeda feels like pandering. Pandering to a certain demographic, with its writing and characters and all. It reads like a bad fanfic. My point is, if you're going to write a game, whose selling point is its cast and the writing, at least write about something people will care and will find it relatively harmless. As much as I disliked Picard, I still liked seeing Data, Ryker, Troy, even if they were "simulacrums", basically. Even if they decide to make an ME4 about the "humbling" of Shepard, which they won't, because that would mean tearing down FemShep as well, I would still prefer it over Ryder's Clubhouse 2. At the very least they won't kill Shepard a 3rd time. Not even Palpatine would be propped up to be killed a 3rd time. It was dumb enough the second time around.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 28, 2020 17:42:29 GMT
Mediocre games are easier to produce quickly Is it? Anthem took 7 years, apparently. 8 now and it's still not even mediocre. ME:A fans deserve a superb ME:A2 game. All 5 of them. I kid, I kid, I kid. In all honesty, Andromeda feels like pandering. Pandering to a certain demographic, with its writing and characters and all. It reads like a bad fanfic. My point is, if you're going to write a game, whose selling point is its cast and the writing, at least write about something people will care and will find it relatively harmless. As much as I disliked Picard, I still liked seeing Data, Ryker, Troy, even if they were "simulacrums", basically. Even if they decide to make an ME4 about the "humbling" of Shepard, which they won't, because that would mean tearing down FemShep as well, I would still prefer it over Ryder's Clubhouse 2. At the very least they won't kill Shepard a 3rd time. Not even Palpatine would be propped up to be killed a 3rd time. It was dumb enough the second time around. And what demographic is that, pray tell?
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Party like it's 2023!
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on May 28, 2020 17:56:43 GMT
Mediocre games are easier to produce quickly Is it? Anthem took 7 years, apparently. 8 now and it's still not even mediocre. ME:A fans deserve a superb ME:A2 game. All 5 of them. I kid, I kid, I kid. In all honesty, Andromeda feels like pandering. Pandering to a certain demographic, with its writing and characters and all. It reads like a bad fanfic. My point is, if you're going to write a game, whose selling point is its cast and the writing, at least write about something people will care and will find it relatively harmless. As much as I disliked Picard, I still liked seeing Data, Ryker, Troy, even if they were "simulacrums", basically. Even if they decide to make an ME4 about the "humbling" of Shepard, which they won't, because that would mean tearing down FemShep as well, I would still prefer it over Ryder's Clubhouse 2. At the very least they won't kill Shepard a 3rd time. Not even Palpatine would be propped up to be killed a 3rd time. It was dumb enough the second time around. What you’re arguing though has nothing to do with an Andromeda sequel specifically. Any of these “demographic” issues would just as well plague any other Mass Effect game anyway. The one and only argument one can really make here is that the public would force it to fail, regardless of quality, due to review bombing over their feelings on the previous game. It’s hard to fathom anyone wanting a Picard-level Mass Effect game that reduces Shepard to a desiccated husk like Picard was turned into in that diarrhetic schlock of a series.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 28, 2020 18:23:12 GMT
Perhaps, but as a customer, only the merit of the game matters Well, if I don't see the merit? Then what? I don't see the merit of Shekiro, for example. It's a fine game, in its own right, but I don't see any merit in a game that is about difficulty, for the sake of being difficult. However much the company profits from it only matters to us insofar that it determines whether or not we get more of that from them specifically. If we got a really good game, but the developer suffers financially, well that’s too bad for them, but we got a good product out of it. However, Andromeda was a bad game that, under estimates from market analysts, can have lost up to $20 million USD. Furthermore, Bioware has suffered damage from Anthem, as a brand and, just as ME3's damage has further hurt ME's sales, we know damn well that Andromeda 2, whether good or bad, is financial suicide. At best, as a responsible studio manager, you should work to preserve your studio's livelihood and realizing that you can always revisit this thing that most people disliked at a later date, when it is more viable. At worst, you drop it entirely.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 28, 2020 18:26:01 GMT
And what demographic is that, pray tell? You and others like you. I don't know where you belong, but whatever you are, that's it. And I don't care, really, to find out.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 28, 2020 18:29:21 GMT
And what demographic is that, pray tell? You and others like you. I don't know where you belong, but whatever you are, that's it. And I don't care, really, to find out. So you only want them to make games that appeal to you, and everyone else can go away. Got it. Well, I'm glad that they aren't making games for your demographic anymore.
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