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SirSourpuss
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Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 28, 2020 18:30:23 GMT
What you’re arguing though has nothing to do with an Andromeda sequel specifically. Any of these “demographic” issues would just as well plague any other Mass Effect game anyway You oversimplify it. We've talked, extensively, about brand damage and brand recognition, as well as many narrative problems arisen through Andromeda. The one and only argument one can really make here is that the public would force it to fail You can't force something to fail, if you don't care about it to begin with. To most people, for one reason or another, is done, outside of Shepard and Andromeda did nothing to change that. regardless of quality, due to review bombing over their feelings on the previous game People don't care enough to bother. Evident by Andromeda's sales, hitting ME2 launch sales, at the end of Andromeda's quarter's launch. It took Andromeda 3 times the, well, time ME2 did, released on 1 more console and the biggest console gen since the PS2 era to match ME2. Not a good look. It’s hard to fathom anyone wanting a Picard-level Mass Effect game that reduces Shepard to a desiccated husk like Picard was turned into in that diarrhetic schlock of a series. Same. But I'd care about it.
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Party like it's 2023!
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August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on May 28, 2020 18:47:25 GMT
Perhaps, but as a customer, only the merit of the game matters Well, if I don't see the merit? Then what? I don't see the merit of Shekiro, for example. It's a fine game, in its own right, but I don't see any merit in a game that is about difficulty, for the sake of being difficult. However much the company profits from it only matters to us insofar that it determines whether or not we get more of that from them specifically. If we got a really good game, but the developer suffers financially, well that’s too bad for them, but we got a good product out of it. However, Andromeda was a bad game that, under estimates from market analysts, can have lost up to $20 million USD. Furthermore, Bioware has suffered damage from Anthem, as a brand and, just as ME3's damage has further hurt ME's sales, we know damn well that Andromeda 2, whether good or bad, is financial suicide. At best, as a responsible studio manager, you should work to preserve your studio's livelihood and realizing that you can always revisit this thing that most people disliked at a later date, when it is more viable. At worst, you drop it entirely. But we’re not talking about Andromeda; we’re talking about this hypothetical game that happens to be good. If the game is actually good, it could just as well benefit from positive word of mouth. The way I see it, all of this is simply an argument for killing the Mass Effect franchise off for good. After all, reboot or no, it’s still carrying this now supposedly sullied brand, so then maybe just let it die. But then, it’ll still be a BioWare product, in which case, dissolve and scatter to go work for Wizards of the Coast or something.
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Apr 26, 2022 11:22:31 GMT
8,542
Unicephalon 40-D
An unknown possibly hostile flotilla detected at eight hundred astronomical units from the sun!
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Jun 29, 2017 12:57:11 GMT
June 2017
legendcncd
Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
LegendCNCD / AsariLoverFI
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on May 28, 2020 18:59:30 GMT
I'm not a fan of a prequel though I would likely buy it. Of course if they do have a prequel where I can play as a reaper beside my good friend Harbinger, that would be a preorder. Only if we can romance a destroyer. She's waiting there for youuu uuuu...
oh wrong galaxy? Nah, right.
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SirSourpuss
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October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 28, 2020 19:34:34 GMT
So you only want them to make games that appeal to you Last time I checked you liked the MET, as much as I. So these games appeal to us, but, as we've argued before, I believe, pandering is bad and I've said I don't like being pandered to. But now you're arguing that you should be pandered to? Because as I said earlier In all honesty, Andromeda feels like pandering. Pandering to a certain demographic, with its writing and characters and all So you're making an argument that you should be pandered to, but not I, while saying pandering to me is bad. And I don't see, in that logic, why pandering to you is good, but pandering to me is bad. By that logic, it would mean you = good while me = bad. I'm fine with being called bad, I'll never claim to be good. I'm flawed, just as everyone else, I have my drawbacks and shortcomings and I may, indeed, be more insufferable than most and I own that. I wish I was better, each and every day. But I am not going to claim that I am good and above anyone else here, like you are indirectly doing right now. Well, I'm glad that they aren't making games for your demographic anymore. So I should never get a game that I like ever again? Not one that panders to me, but one that I even remotely like or enjoy? That I should drop playing video games altogether? That every game developer should make games that push me away in every way imaginable? Is that what you are calling for?
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sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 28, 2020 19:52:24 GMT
But we’re not talking about Andromeda; we’re talking about this hypothetical game that happens to be good. If the game is actually good, it could just as well benefit from positive word of mouth But this hypothetical 'good game' exists in a vacuum. If Biowre's next game could exist in a vacuum, it would have been relevant. So, if this is the extent of the argument you are going to push for, it is already inaccurate. If the game is actually good, it could just as well benefit from positive word of mouth. All games could benefit from positive word of mouth. As can good movies. Terminator Dark Fate got very positive word of mouth. Birds of Prey got very positive word of mouth. Didn't help enough. The idea that positive word of mouth could help elevate a game from selling hundreds of thousands of copies, to several million is a stretch. It's going to help a little. The next game in the franchise is the one that is going to enjoy the fruits of the last game's achievement. As did ME2 and ME3. Andromeda reaped the failures of ME3 and Andromeda 2 will reap the failures of Andromeda 1 and Anthem. Because now Bioware is the "memes" studio and people can't get enough of those memes. The way I see it, all of this is simply an argument for killing the Mass Effect franchise off for good It can be saved, but it needs a whole lot of work, good work, that Bioware either isn't willing to put in, is too scared to put in, doesn't know how to put in or all of these combined. And if you can't do it, then its best to retire it and start something else, for you sake. Oh right, we did that with Anthem. Well, then you're fucked. After all, reboot or no, it’s still carrying this now supposedly sullied brand, so then maybe just let it die A reboot is guaranteed to be worse than the original. I mean, Andromeda was, basically, that and it put the franchise on ice. Rebooting it into whatever else, erasing all the things, basically, that people loved about Mass Effect to begin with, how much good will do you think that will generate right now? But then, it’ll still be a BioWare product, in which case, dissolve and scatter to go work for Wizards of the Coast or something. I'm not the one calling the shots and ideally I don't want anyone losing their jobs. But Bioware broke Mass Effect and unless they fix it, it's going to kill them.
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Post by ClarkKent on May 28, 2020 21:43:37 GMT
Where did BioWare say that they wanted a prequel? Just as well they didn’t bother, since prequels are shit. Count me in team Milky Way prequel.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2020 23:22:26 GMT
I'm not the one calling the shots and ideally I don't want anyone losing their jobs. But Bioware broke Mass Effect and unless they fix it, it's going to kill them I don't know if you played the same game as I did. I chose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is saved, my crew is safe and Shepard is alive. I don't see anything broken here.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 30, 2020 23:27:13 GMT
I don't know if you played the same game as I did. I chose to destroy the Reapers, Earth is saved, my crew is safe and Shepard is alive. I don't see anything broken here. Well, that's done, then. Shepard's alive people, Reapers are dead, no need to go to Andromeda, anymore. It was a pointless detour, anyway.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2020 23:51:15 GMT
To you maybe. If you actually played Andromeda, it was a contingency plan in case the Reapers succeeded in harvesting everyone.
This is just another "make ME4" or "keep the same story and setting" argument from you.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
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Post by cloud9 on May 31, 2020 7:09:58 GMT
No they don't They did call us dumb for not understanding their artistic vision. And entitled. That's why they're in the position that they're in now.
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themikefest
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Post by themikefest on May 31, 2020 10:44:41 GMT
To you maybe. If you actually played Andromeda, it was a contingency plan in case the Reapers succeeded in harvesting everyone. Was that before or after the benefactor showed up?
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SirSourpuss
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Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
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sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 31, 2020 13:20:56 GMT
To you maybe. If you actually played Andromeda, it was a contingency plan in case the Reapers succeeded in harvesting everyone. This is just another "make ME4" or "keep the same story and setting" argument from you. Perhaps I wouldn't be so against Andromeda, if it had been somewhere nearly as well received as anything else that came before it. Mass Effect 1Mass Effect 2Mass Effect 3Mass Effect: AndromedaForget who I am, for a moment. Assume I am just a dissatisfied Andromeda player. Why would I want to return to Andromeda? I didn't like the setting, I didn't like the characters, I didn't like the writing and the only thing I liked was the memes. Convince me to return to Andromeda. Convince me to spend my $60 on it.
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The Hype Himself
Proud Sponsor of Swingin' Seamen Charter Fishing: My Live Bait Will Catch Your Fish Every Time!
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August 2016
hawkeyegod
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by The Hype Himself on May 31, 2020 14:10:33 GMT
They did call us dumb for not understanding their artistic vision. And entitled. That's why they're in the position that they're in now. Vision aside, it would seem they severely overestimate their ability to organize and develop a game over a long-term period, and most especially their ability to rush a quality project in a crunch.
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SirSourpuss
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sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 31, 2020 14:15:19 GMT
Vision aside, it would seem they severely overestimate their ability to develop a game Fixed.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2020 17:00:00 GMT
To you maybe. If you actually played Andromeda, it was a contingency plan in case the Reapers succeeded in harvesting everyone. Was that before or after the benefactor showed up? I would say they revealed their true reason for why they went to Andromeda. Benefactor only showed up, because Jien Garson was running out of money to fund the project.
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Old Scientist Contrarian
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 1, 2020 19:34:47 GMT
Forget who I am, for a moment. Assume I am just a dissatisfied Andromeda player. Why would I want to return to Andromeda? I didn't like the setting, I didn't like the characters, I didn't like the writing and the only thing I liked was the memes. Convince me to return to Andromeda. Convince me to spend my $60 on it. They shouldn't bother. No matter what new ME game is made, the design approach will be a deal-breaker for some portion of the existing fanbase.
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wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,632 Likes: 2,469
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2,469
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Sept 8, 2016 12:06:29 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by wright1978 on Jun 1, 2020 22:13:01 GMT
Forget who I am, for a moment. Assume I am just a dissatisfied Andromeda player. Why would I want to return to Andromeda? I didn't like the setting, I didn't like the characters, I didn't like the writing and the only thing I liked was the memes. Convince me to return to Andromeda. Convince me to spend my $60 on it. They shouldn't bother. No matter what new ME game is made, the design approach will be a deal-breaker for some portion of the existing fanbase. While they certainly can’t appeal to them all, the certainly do have to appeal to more people.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 2, 2020 13:53:37 GMT
They shouldn't bother. No matter what new ME game is made, the design approach will be a deal-breaker for some portion of the existing fanbase. So the idea should be to shrink the fanbase further.
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Old Scientist Contrarian
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 3, 2020 2:09:28 GMT
They shouldn't bother. No matter what new ME game is made, the design approach will be a deal-breaker for some portion of the existing fanbase. So the idea should be to shrink the fanbase further I'm not sure if this post demonstrates a rhetoric fail or a reading comprehension fail. On the assumption that it's the latter, the point is that losing some of the fanbase with a new game is simply inevitable. The things various fan factions want are not reconcilable. Not returning to the MW is a dealbreaker for you, but returning to the MW will be a dealbreaker for other people. Precisely which other people depends on the particular approach taken; I'd be up for a full-canonization approach, but Hanako'd bolt. Retcon everything or grind the existing choices into much and I'm outta here. And so on.
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The Hype Himself
Proud Sponsor of Swingin' Seamen Charter Fishing: My Live Bait Will Catch Your Fish Every Time!
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hawkeyegod
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by The Hype Himself on Jun 3, 2020 13:04:58 GMT
I say again....why continue posting here if you have already decided the next game will fail. Seriously I don't understand the thinking here. Oh ye of limited cognizance... Boasting rights - it's fun to rub it in your face how wrong you were and how right I was. I like telling you that you're wrong and you should feel bad. In a nutshell. How's that slick, does that answer your question?
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Proud Sponsor of Swingin' Seamen Charter Fishing: My Live Bait Will Catch Your Fish Every Time!
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hawkeyegod
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by The Hype Himself on Jun 3, 2020 13:06:45 GMT
Exactly. It's like people have amnesia. Or different opinions than you. Money’s on the latter. Swing and a miss there. I have a Swedish friend who'll be collecting the change on your wrong opinion. Gustav is his name. He brought some friends. They're all hockey players. Have the money in unmarked bills or they're going to have to get creative with their hockey sticks.
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sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 3, 2020 13:47:42 GMT
the point is that losing some of the fanbase with a new game is simply inevitable So there can be no growth? The things various fan factions want are not reconcilable Opinion piece. Not returning to the MW is a dealbreaker for you, but returning to the MW will be a dealbreaker for other people As I've said before, I don't care about the Milky Way, Andromeda, Canis Major or even Sombrero Galaxy as a setting. The idea that the galaxy itself is going to sell the game is, at best, naive. Hell, I'd take a Sombrero Galaxy ME game, where the male protagonist is Danny Trejo, the female protagonist is Michelle Rodriguez and we fight the Gringo Reapers. Just to piss off Trump. And instead of Eezo, we got Tequila. If anyone contests that, obviously they've not seen the singularity effect of tequila. I've many a black hole in my memory from it We'll call it Mexploitation Effect. Precisely which other people depends on the particular approach taken; I'd be up for a full-canonization approach, but Hanako'd bolt. With all due respect to Hanako Ikezawa, his financial contribution wasn't enough to save Andromeda, to begin with. Retcon everything or grind the existing choices into much and I'm outta here. And so on I don't see why we should respect the thing that brought us to this situation. It was already non viable the first time we tried to ignore it.
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KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 4, 2020 20:33:48 GMT
They shouldn't bother. No matter what new ME game is made, the design approach will be a deal-breaker for some portion of the existing fanbase. So the idea should be to shrink the fanbase further. Not sure how that logic follows. How would they shrink further? The people that stuck around for Andromeda and actually want a continuation wouldn’t leave, and the people who left because of ME3 or Andromeda and never returned would mean it makes no difference at that point. Of course, there’s no guarantee that any alternatives don’t have a negative impact on the fanbase.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 5, 2020 13:45:54 GMT
Not sure how that logic follows Of course, there’s no guarantee that any alternatives don’t have a negative impact on the fanbase. That's the logic. According to alanc9, the further shrinking of the fanbase is inevitable, therefore Bioware shouldn't even attempt to rectify it. But I've yet to come across a business whose target wasn't growth. The logic is inherently flawed.
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Highwayman667
N3
"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 522 Likes: 722
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722
Highwayman667
"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
522
May 10, 2020 13:11:01 GMT
May 2020
highwayman667
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Highwayman667 on Jun 5, 2020 19:12:06 GMT
So the idea should be to shrink the fanbase further. Not sure how that logic follows. How would they shrink further? The people that stuck around for Andromeda and actually want a continuation wouldn’t leave, and the people who left because of ME3 or Andromeda and never returned would mean it makes no difference at that point. Of course, there’s no guarantee that any alternatives don’t have a negative impact on the fanbase. Besides, you can always attract new people into the game. Audiences expand with every game they play.
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