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SirSourpuss
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October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 7, 2020 14:44:56 GMT
Like I said, this is only about the short term effect. Creating “buzz” is great, but doesn’t mean anything for the long-term Exactly. Shepard and co. will linger in people's heads. Ryder and Andromeda will be a quick laugh and then everyone will forget about it. Only the quality of the game will keep it going in the end I mean ... do I need to link metacritic scores of the last few games Bioware released? We'll be lucky if the next game hits the mid 70s and it will still be considered an improvement. But people's love for the established characters will maintain it. However, a hypothetical Shepard game comes with special caveats, because this buzz they’d want to generate applies to fans of the series that already dealt with some seemingly irreversible story decisions Trust me on this, they don't care, because they have no expectations of Bioware to be true to them. Bioware will get shat on for it, but they'll have a fanbase and sales. With Andromeda 2, they will get shat on, without a fanbase and even less sales. And they can even get away with being shat on, by having a "perfect" destroy playthrough being the filter. Like, it would require this much EMS to continue the post destroy setting, while lower EMS destroy endings don't have Shepard survive and the Synthesis and Control endings achieve peace forever. Even after all that, if they still did get criticism, they can say, like they did with ME3 and the ending criticism, it is "their" story, not ours and they can do whatever they want with it. If the answer then is simply “Well it’s just totally dead and can’t get worse”, then I don’t see what’s left to talk about What's left to talk about is that it's coming back regardless, so you might as well make a game that sells. Who knows, it may be a stepping stone to making an Andromeda that will be more well received by a more open minded public. Right now, I'd dare Mike Gamble to announce an Andromeda sequel, with Ryder or without, to the gaming public. I offer an open challenge to Mike Gamble to get on stream at EA Play live and announce Ryder is back in Andromeda 2. It'll be hilarious to watch the access media grit its teeth and try to shill for it, as it will be to watch the live chat.
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Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
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KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
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August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 7, 2020 15:25:00 GMT
Like I said, this is only about the short term effect. Creating “buzz” is great, but doesn’t mean anything for the long-term Exactly. Shepard and co. will linger in people's heads. Ryder and Andromeda will be a quick laugh and then everyone will forget about it. Only the quality of the game will keep it going in the end I mean ... do I need to link metacritic scores of the last few games Bioware released? We'll be lucky if the next game hits the mid 70s and it will still be considered an improvement. But people's love for the established characters will maintain it. However, a hypothetical Shepard game comes with special caveats, because this buzz they’d want to generate applies to fans of the series that already dealt with some seemingly irreversible story decisions Trust me on this, they don't care, because they have no expectations of Bioware to be true to them. Bioware will get shat on for it, but they'll have a fanbase and sales. With Andromeda 2, they will get shat on, without a fanbase and even less sales. And they can even get away with being shat on, by having a "perfect" destroy playthrough being the filter. Like, it would require this much EMS to continue the post destroy setting, while lower EMS destroy endings don't have Shepard survive and the Synthesis and Control endings achieve peace forever. Even after all that, if they still did get criticism, they can say, like they did with ME3 and the ending criticism, it is "their" story, not ours and they can do whatever they want with it. If the answer then is simply “Well it’s just totally dead and can’t get worse”, then I don’t see what’s left to talk about What's left to talk about is that it's coming back regardless, so you might as well make a game that sells. Who knows, it may be a stepping stone to making an Andromeda that will be more well received by a more open minded public. Right now, I'd dare Mike Gamble to announce an Andromeda sequel, with Ryder or without, to the gaming public. I offer an open challenge to Mike Gamble to get on stream at EA Play live and announce Ryder is back in Andromeda 2. It'll be hilarious to watch the access media grit its teeth and try to shill for it, as it will be to watch the live chat.
As much as people might really want this to be true, metacritic scores in no way dictate how a future product will turn out, thus not worth consideration. We can argue probabilities 'til we're blue in the face, but we'd just be yanking phantom odds from our asses with no real way of knowing all the factors that actually determine whether or not that future product will turn out well.
But, perhaps you're right. Maybe fans are just stupid, and nostalgia is all that's necessary to sell a product and make it a success. I guess it worked for Jurassic World, a cynical cash grab that had the self awarenesss to let the audience know that nothing could ever truly stand with the original, and simply be rewarded for it. With all the other stuff creatively bankrupt entities have pumped out over the years, like the Star Wars sequel trilogy, I guess that's the best we could hope for. After all, continuity is for fools. All that matters is that the mindless rabble will just eat that shit up if you put the right wrapper on it.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by Phantom on Jun 7, 2020 15:53:54 GMT
I could argue that trying to address the ending would just be reopening that can of clusterfuck and it would just make matters worse. I'd argue the franchise is already dead. You can't get worse. More dead than dead is just dead, as well. I think the only way to trigger a reaction, at this point, is to anger the beehive. You can create some buzz behind Shepard returning, you can get some traction. Nobody's going to think twice about Ryder and Andromeda. Even in the off chance, at this point, that the game is actually good, people won't buy on release, they'll wait till the game is down to $20 on the bargain bin. Well We at Cerberus Labs can do Project Lazarus 2.0 for Mass Effect. It work for Shepard and it can work for Mass Effect for we have better technology now.
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Son of Dorn
Fortifying everything.
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Jan 11, 2017 14:17:27 GMT
January 2017
doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 7, 2020 16:10:11 GMT
I'd argue the franchise is already dead. You can't get worse. More dead than dead is just dead, as well. I think the only way to trigger a reaction, at this point, is to anger the beehive. You can create some buzz behind Shepard returning, you can get some traction. Nobody's going to think twice about Ryder and Andromeda. Even in the off chance, at this point, that the game is actually good, people won't buy on release, they'll wait till the game is down to $20 on the bargain bin. Well We at Cerberus Labs can do Project Lazarus 2.0 for Mass Effect. It work for Shepard and it can work for Mass Effect for we have better technology now. Yeah... About that, I saw a few of those Bloody Magpies walking out of those labs, carrying something....
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by Phantom on Jun 7, 2020 16:18:49 GMT
Well We at Cerberus Labs can do Project Lazarus 2.0 for Mass Effect. It work for Shepard and it can work for Mass Effect for we have better technology now. Yeah... About that, I saw a few of those Bloody Magpies walking out of those labs, carrying something.... Well My Cell runs many Experiments to make sure that technology is sound.
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Fortifying everything.
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Jan 11, 2017 14:17:27 GMT
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doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 7, 2020 16:26:29 GMT
Yeah... About that, I saw a few of those Bloody Magpies walking out of those labs, carrying something.... Well My Cell runs many Experiments to make sure that technology is sound. Well, you know what they're like... You better go check in case they actually did take anything else. .... Honestly don't know why they call themselves "Blood Ravens"... Last I checked, Ravens don't go nicking stuff....
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by Phantom on Jun 7, 2020 17:13:03 GMT
Well My Cell runs many Experiments to make sure that technology is sound. Well, you know what they're like... You better go check in case they actually did take anything else. .... Honestly don't know why they call themselves "Blood Ravens"... Last I checked, Ravens don't go nicking stuff.... Well i will have a conversation with the Blood Ravens....and I shall gently remind them about that deal about sharing technology. I am not in the mood when the shit hits the fan. Well There are several large cooling fans thru out the Space Station and I don't want them losing their tempers and wrecking them because a lot of good equipment will overheat and that is the least of my worries at the moment.
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Son of Dorn
Fortifying everything.
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Jan 11, 2017 14:17:27 GMT
January 2017
doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 7, 2020 17:18:14 GMT
Well, you know what they're like... You better go check in case they actually did take anything else. .... Honestly don't know why they call themselves "Blood Ravens"... Last I checked, Ravens don't go nicking stuff.... Well i will have a conversation with the Blood Ravens....and I shall gently remind them about that deal about sharing technology. I am not in the mood when the shit hits the fan. Well There are several large cooling fans thru out the Space Station and I don't want them losing their tempers and wrecking them because a lot of good equipment will overheat and that is the least of my worries at the moment. Yeah, last thing you need is for some Ork pirate to show up and take a fancy to your space station... Or that Necron who likes to collect things...
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by Phantom on Jun 7, 2020 17:31:47 GMT
Well i will have a conversation with the Blood Ravens....and I shall gently remind them about that deal about sharing technology. I am not in the mood when the shit hits the fan. Well There are several large cooling fans thru out the Space Station and I don't want them losing their tempers and wrecking them because a lot of good equipment will overheat and that is the least of my worries at the moment. Yeah, last thing you need is for some Ork pirate to show up and take a fancy to your space station... Or that Necron who likes to collect things... Well We already dealt with Ork pirate flotilla and there was just one of their ships was left heavily damaged. And We are doing researching Necron technology in order to fight them while not having them using the technology that we recovered against us. Lets face it, Necron are smarter than your average Ork and with extensive knowledge of cybernetic and robotics. I don't want them remote controlling their tech in our base. I might throw that out of the airlock into a black hole.
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Son of Dorn
Fortifying everything.
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doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 7, 2020 17:35:23 GMT
Yeah, last thing you need is for some Ork pirate to show up and take a fancy to your space station... Or that Necron who likes to collect things... Well We already dealt with Ork pirate flotilla and there was just one of their ships was left heavily damaged. And We are doing researching Necron technology in order to fight them while not having them using the technology that we recovered against us. Lets face it, Necron are smarter than your average Ork and with extensive knowledge of cybernetic and robotics. I don't want them remote controlling their tech in our base. I might throw that out of the airlock into a black hole. Don't forget that Big Cheese Necron Bossman will want your Lazarus Project tech for his own uses. And you know he won't ask nicely...
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by Phantom on Jun 7, 2020 17:38:56 GMT
Well We already dealt with Ork pirate flotilla and there was just one of their ships was left heavily damaged. And We are doing researching Necron technology in order to fight them while not having them using the technology that we recovered against us. Lets face it, Necron are smarter than your average Ork and with extensive knowledge of cybernetic and robotics. I don't want them remote controlling their tech in our base. I might throw that out of the airlock into a black hole. Don't forget that Big Cheese Necron Bossman will want your Lazarus Project tech for his own uses. And you know he won't ask nicely... Well that is the main reason my cell is developing Tech for Necron like him and his stupidly large fleet. Lets face it, He has a powerfully large fleet to comfortably curbstomp the entire galaxy if he wanted too.
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Son of Dorn
Fortifying everything.
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doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 7, 2020 17:40:58 GMT
Don't forget that Big Cheese Necron Bossman will want your Lazarus Project tech for his own uses. And you know he won't ask nicely... Well that is the main reason my cell is developing Tech for Necron like him and his stupidly large fleet. Lets face it, He has a powerfully large fleet to comfortably curbstomp the entire galaxy if he wanted too. That could work in our favour. Just point him towards the Citadel, and grab some popcorn. 😁😈
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Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 7, 2020 17:59:53 GMT
As much as people might really want this to be true, metacritic scores in no way dictate how a future product will turn out While there are no crystal balls out there, the chance of Bioware going from making a 6/10 game to a 9/10 game, with the added bad PR they've accumulated over the years, is, at the very least, disingenuous. They need to work on their PR, to improve the reception of their next announcement. If literally everyone was sucking Bioware at the tit, I wouldn't object. Bioware could do whatever the hell they wanted. Not now, though. Spiders have as much of a chance to make a 9/10 game with their next title as much as Bioware at this point. Possible, but highly unlikely. We can argue probabilities 'til we're blue in the face, but we'd just be yanking phantom odds from our asses with no real way of knowing all the factors that actually determine whether or not that future product will turn out well. Yes, we can. The pattern has been repeated enough times, that deviation is unlikely and even so, there is no guarantee that the deviation won't be more negative then positive. Maybe fans are just stupid It's not stupidity to want to see old friends. If anyone wants to see a single one of the Andromeda crew back, they have no moral high ground to stand on, when asking for an Andromeda sequel. Because that's a double standard. After all, continuity is for fools Bioware threw that out with ME3, some would argue with ME2, even. Let's not pretend Bioware cared at any point about continuity, except 2-3 bullet points. All that matters is that the mindless rabble will just eat that shit up if you put the right wrapper on it. Again, anyone who wants an Andromeda sequel is just as guilty of this.
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alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
7,830
February 2017
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 7, 2020 18:28:35 GMT
I presume this depends on what's actually in the game. Isn't it a little early to make predictions? Hell, I wouldn't bet money that the thing will even ever exist. I'm going by Bio's track record so far (from ME3 to Anthem), so far it doesn't look good. But as you pointed out, time will tell. Makes sense. The probability is that I'll like ME4 just fine unless the design approach crosses one of my personal redlines, since I liked DAI and ME3 abd thought ME:A was just fine as long as you ignore the OW. Didn't like Anthem, but I didn't expect to since I don't like the genre. (My experience is that the CW is correct and the central gameplay loop was botched; how a studio that hasn't delivered interesting loot in decades got tasked with doing a looter shooter is beyond me.)
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Fortifying everything.
6,276
Jan 11, 2017 14:17:27 GMT
January 2017
doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 7, 2020 18:39:50 GMT
I'm going by Bio's track record so far (from ME3 to Anthem), so far it doesn't look good. But as you pointed out, time will tell. Makes sense. The probability is that I'll like ME4 just fine unless the design approach crosses one of my personal redlines, since I liked DAI and ME3 abd thought ME:A was just fine as long as you ignore the OW. Didn't like Anthem, but I didn't expect to since I don't like the genre. (My experience is that the CW is correct and the central gameplay loop was botched; how a studio that hasn't delivered interesting loot in decades got tasked with doing a looter shooter is beyond me.) We still have to wait for Anthem 2.0 and DA4 for any upcoming news on a ME4 however. So, until then, any news on a ME4 game is likely a long ways off (most likely by 2024 to 2028. That is if Bio is even tempted to do another ME game. They could just say F it, and do a brand new sci fi IP that'll replace Mass Effect).
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Old Scientist Contrarian
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February 2017
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 7, 2020 18:40:07 GMT
As much as people might really want this to be true, metacritic scores in no way dictate how a future product will turn out While there are no crystal balls out there, the chance of Bioware going from making a 6/10 game to a 9/10 game, with the added bad PR they've accumulated over the years, is, at the very least, disingenuous. You guys arent talking about the Metacritic critic numbers, right?
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wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,632 Likes: 2,469
inherit
1492
0
2,469
wright1978
1,632
Sept 8, 2016 12:06:29 GMT
September 2016
wright1978
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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2073
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Post by wright1978 on Jun 7, 2020 20:34:39 GMT
I could see some future version of either Andromeda or Milky Way working successfully commercially for Bioware. It's down to them to come up with a story vision for where the franchise is going and deliver on it in a much better way than last time. I've got my doubts, at least Dragon Age feels like there's more continuity in the leadership.
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0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 7, 2020 22:13:07 GMT
You guys arent talking about the Metacritic critic numbers, right? Are we going to have another conversation about critic scores and user scores having no merit at being objective or influential, or just expressing the popular public opinion? I could see some future version of either Andromeda or Milky Way working successfully commercially for Bioware. It's down to them to come up with a story vision for where the franchise is going and deliver on it in a much better way than last time. While that could be true, under better circumstances, brand damage ensures that initial adoption will be low, far below market projections and financial expectations to make the game viable, unless you bring out the things that people associated with the franchise and loved. And a "blink and you missed me" cameo, like the ME2 crew got in ME3 won't turn heads around. I understand Bioware "retired" them with ME3, but at this point, they're the only thing Bioware has left. Nothing else will bring fans back and grow the fanbase as getting what built ME back, for the old fans to revisit and the new fans to explore, with new tech, new models, new adventures and new gameplay. There will be at least 12 years since the last time ME was relevant, not necessarily in a strictly good way, and the amount of new gamers in the medium will not have experienced anything about the OT. - But the remaster ... Even if it is coming, a remaster in UE3 is not going to do anything worthwhile for the franchise and its too much low result work to port the old assets in a new engine, to look exactly the same low poly shit they did 10 years ago, to entice new gamers to check out an outdated looking game, at the cusp of the new console gen. MET would need a remake to be worth the effort.
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wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,632 Likes: 2,469
inherit
1492
0
2,469
wright1978
1,632
Sept 8, 2016 12:06:29 GMT
September 2016
wright1978
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
8,116
2073
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Post by wright1978 on Jun 7, 2020 23:20:12 GMT
You guys arent talking about the Metacritic critic numbers, right? Are we going to have another conversation about critic scores and user scores having no merit at being objective or influential, or just expressing the popular public opinion? I could see some future version of either Andromeda or Milky Way working successfully commercially for Bioware. It's down to them to come up with a story vision for where the franchise is going and deliver on it in a much better way than last time. While that could be true, under better circumstances, brand damage ensures that initial adoption will be low, far below market projections and financial expectations to make the game viable, unless you bring out the things that people associated with the franchise and loved. And a "blink and you missed me" cameo, like the ME2 crew got in ME3 won't turn heads around. I understand Bioware "retired" them with ME3, but at this point, they're the only thing Bioware has left. Nothing else will bring fans back and grow the fanbase as getting what built ME back, for the old fans to revisit and the new fans to explore, with new tech, new models, new adventures and new gameplay. There will be at least 12 years since the last time ME was relevant, not necessarily in a strictly good way, and the amount of new gamers in the medium will not have experienced anything about the OT. - But the remaster ... Even if it is coming, a remaster in UE3 is not going to do anything worthwhile for the franchise and its too much low result work to port the old assets in a new engine, to look exactly the same low poly shit they did 10 years ago, to entice new gamers to check out an outdated looking game, at the cusp of the new console gen. MET would need a remake to be worth the effort. I love me2 but I don’t see the argument that that cast are some salvation. If anything other trilogy characters have much higher brand recognition if they want a canon Milky Way pickup. As you yourself state there will be a bunch of new gamers when/if it releases any new mass effect releases. They will largely determine the success, not trilogy players or callbacks to past characters. Brand damage won’t be a significant factor by then. Say it’s called mass effect: a darkness rises people are either going to be excited by the marketing/word of mouth or not. They aren’t going to go, to define their choice based on if it’s set in andromeda or Milky way. Most probably won’t have played either. a remake is worthless imo. A stagnant limbo of creativity or making lots of stupid artificial changes to justify the remake
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deathscepter
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by Phantom on Jun 7, 2020 23:53:35 GMT
well I am wondering if we had a N7 Soldier to be a main villain, No I am not talking about Kai Leng, whom was a former N7 Villain but an Anti Shepard type of N7 Soldier.
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5,622
SirSourpuss
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Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 8, 2020 0:32:21 GMT
If anything other trilogy characters have much higher brand recognition True. The ME3 crew is the most famous. Because more people played ME3 than any other game in the trilogy. But I was referring to the treatment of the ME2 crew in ME3, being used to have the ME3 crew return in any of the following games. A 2 minute cameo of Garrus and/or Tali will, rightfully, be considered baiting. Bioware would have to make a substantial return for these characters, to earn that positive sentiment. I would also like to interject, however, that the ME2 crew was the most well received, while the ME3 crew was mostly reused from ME1 and very few people care for the new crew; Vega, Javik, Allers, Traynor and Cortez, only two of which can be squad members. As you yourself state there will be a bunch of new gamers when/if it releases any new mass effect releases. They will largely determine the success, not trilogy players or callbacks to past characters. Brand damage won’t be a significant factor by then Brand damage doesn't go away. We've been seeing it in effect since 2012. The idea that it will die tomorrow, especially after Bioware's latest missteps, is naive at best. When the new gamers, who don't know about Bioware, find out about Bioware, they will find out about DA2, ToR, ME3, Inquisition, Andromeda and Anthem, because they will be reminded of these, either through media or their parents, who were, quite likely, into gaming themselves. And maybe we will tell our kids that Bioware is great. How many outside of us do you think will? The percentage of the 2.5 million Andromeda buyers that shat on it? Or the percentage of the 3 million Anthem buyers that shat on it? Anthem NEXT and DA4 will need to be so good, to undo the damage, it will have to make [insert mind blowing experience of preference here] look tame in comparison. a remake is worthless imo. A stagnant limbo of creativity or making lots of stupid artificial changes to justify the remake It's a dead product, either way. The only upside is that ME will become more relevant in the adult 3D animation community again, thus generating free mind share. And I'm sorry to say this, but porn has done more for Mass Effect the past decade, than Bioware has. But the saddest part is that, ultimately for Bioware, it's a good thing. Because even so, Mass Effect remains that tiny bit relevant.
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Glorious Star Lord
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Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 8, 2020 1:22:56 GMT
As much as people might really want this to be true, metacritic scores in no way dictate how a future product will turn out While there are no crystal balls out there, the chance of Bioware going from making a 6/10 game to a 9/10 game, with the added bad PR they've accumulated over the years, is, at the very least, disingenuous. They need to work on their PR, to improve the reception of their next announcement. If literally everyone was sucking Bioware at the tit, I wouldn't object. Bioware could do whatever the hell they wanted. Not now, though. Spiders have as much of a chance to make a 9/10 game with their next title as much as Bioware at this point. Possible, but highly unlikely. We can argue probabilities 'til we're blue in the face, but we'd just be yanking phantom odds from our asses with no real way of knowing all the factors that actually determine whether or not that future product will turn out well. Yes, we can. The pattern has been repeated enough times, that deviation is unlikely and even so, there is no guarantee that the deviation won't be more negative then positive. Maybe fans are just stupid It's not stupidity to want to see old friends. If anyone wants to see a single one of the Andromeda crew back, they have no moral high ground to stand on, when asking for an Andromeda sequel. Because that's a double standard. After all, continuity is for fools Bioware threw that out with ME3, some would argue with ME2, even. Let's not pretend Bioware cared at any point about continuity, except 2-3 bullet points. All that matters is that the mindless rabble will just eat that shit up if you put the right wrapper on it. Again, anyone who wants an Andromeda sequel is just as guilty of this. I think you mean improbable (impossible?), not disingenuous. There’s nothing insincere about suggesting the possibility that a company can greatly improved a future product in spite of its recent track record. I didn’t say it was stupid to want to see familiar faces; I said it was stupid to just accept whatever you get just because of them. Nostalgia for nostalgia’s sake is now greatly overused and has done more harm than good for a lot of stories. Sometimes characters might be used in a story with the sole purpose of bringing the viewer to a line of callbacks to beat it into us what it was that made this franchise so good in the first place, like the narrative purpose of the 2 boys in Jurassic World, the cameos in the horrendous 2016 Ghostbusters, the Rise of Skywalker in its entirety, etc.. It ends up being hollow and aggravating. So, is the use of the old characters because there’s a compelling, story-driven reason to use them specifically, or is it just an easy, focus test-begotten ploy to get the fans more interested, and make the game sell better? Things like PR and prerelease hype mean absolutely nothing from my perspective. In the end, none of that stuff adds any substance to what I’m supposed to throw my money at, so I don’t give a good god damn however much flack BioWare takes by people on YouTube. And, let’s be honest here. It’s altogether likely that they’d get shit on with equal measure no matter what they do at this point. After years of seeing all the vitriol and hyperbole on YouTube and forums for both, not to mention the massive failure on Anthem’s part from BioWare’s “A Team”, I simply cannot expect anything less. As for Andromeda, sure, I make no secret that I’d prefer a direct sequel to that game. I’m not sitting here expecting BioWare to really do that anymore, given the circumstances, but I don’t see how simply diving into the creative well of defeat by exhuming the old cast and “rebooting” them, thereby undoing the finality of their last adventure, is automatically supposed to be better either. But at the very least, this route doesn’t come with any narrative baggage. I feel I need to emphasize this point, because it always seems to keep falling back to how the game sells, when that shit is not the concern of the customer.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 8, 2020 1:38:21 GMT
There’s nothing insincere about suggesting the possibility that a company can greatly improved a future product in spite of its recent track record. Suggesting that it absolutely will, is disingenuous. As I am getting from a lot of people here. Especially so, if it means that they get a Ryder sequel. I said it was stupid to just accept whatever you get just because of them It will still be nice seeing them and it will get you sales. If its good, all the better, but if its bad, you do get the counter argument that "it was nice seeing so and so again". It doesn't negate the effect. the Rise of Skywalker in its entirety While TLJ had the right idea? Is that what you mean? The title that ruined a multi billion dollar franchise. And while tRoS was stupid, it wasn't insulting to its fanbase, like TLJ was. So, is the use of the old characters because there’s a compelling, story-driven reason to use them specifically, or is it just an easy, focus test-begotten ploy to get the fans more interested, and make the game sell better? It can be both and there's no reason why it can't be both.. Things like PR and prerelease hype mean absolutely nothing from my perspective Well, there go your credentials. I don’t give a good god damn however much flack BioWare takes by people on YouTube A whole bunch of people that aren't you do. Bioware does. EA does. And it's not just youtube. It's twitter, it's facebook, it's all the social media sites. At some point it gets critical. We are past critical, at this point. We died once already. It’s altogether likely that they’d get shit on with equal measure no matter what they do at this point People will be skeptical, but carefully optimistic. After years of seeing all the vitriol and hyperbole on YouTube and forums for both, I simply cannot expect anything less. If that's all you see, then there's no point for Bioware to release the game, to begin with. As for Andromeda, sure, I make no secret that I’d prefer a direct sequel to that game. I’m not sitting here expecting BioWare to really do that anymore, given the circumstances, but I don’t see how simply diving into the creative well of defeat by exhuming the old cast and “rebooting” them, thereby undoing the finality of their last adventure, is automatically supposed to be better either It is better because you already have the bond with the characters, which automatically ensures a more familiar experience. Also "rebooting" them? Why would you be rebooting them? Bioware "rebooted" them, by making race and gender swapped copies of them, when they went to Andromeda and failed, by every account, at that.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 8, 2020 2:31:11 GMT
There’s nothing insincere about suggesting the possibility that a company can greatly improved a future product in spite of its recent track record. Suggesting that it absolutely will, is disingenuous. As I am getting from a lot of people here. Especially so, if it means that they get a Ryder sequel. I said it was stupid to just accept whatever you get just because of them It will still be nice seeing them and it will get you sales. If its good, all the better, but if its bad, you do get the counter argument that "it was nice seeing so and so again". It doesn't negate the effect. the Rise of Skywalker in its entirety While TLJ had the right idea? Is that what you mean? The title that ruined a multi billion dollar franchise. And while tRoS was stupid, it wasn't insulting to its fanbase, like TLJ was. So, is the use of the old characters because there’s a compelling, story-driven reason to use them specifically, or is it just an easy, focus test-begotten ploy to get the fans more interested, and make the game sell better? It can be both and there's no reason why it can't be both.. Things like PR and prerelease hype mean absolutely nothing from my perspective Well, there go your credentials. I don’t give a good god damn however much flack BioWare takes by people on YouTube A whole bunch of people that aren't you do. Bioware does. EA does. And it's not just youtube. It's twitter, it's facebook, it's all the social media sites. At some point it gets critical. We are past critical, at this point. We died once already. It’s altogether likely that they’d get shit on with equal measure no matter what they do at this point People will be skeptical, but carefully optimistic. After years of seeing all the vitriol and hyperbole on YouTube and forums for both, I simply cannot expect anything less. If that's all you see, then there's no point for Bioware to release the game, to begin with. As for Andromeda, sure, I make no secret that I’d prefer a direct sequel to that game. I’m not sitting here expecting BioWare to really do that anymore, given the circumstances, but I don’t see how simply diving into the creative well of defeat by exhuming the old cast and “rebooting” them, thereby undoing the finality of their last adventure, is automatically supposed to be better either It is better because you already have the bond with the characters, which automatically ensures a more familiar experience. Also "rebooting" them? Why would you be rebooting them? Bioware "rebooted" them, by making race and gender swapped copies of them, when they went to Andromeda and failed, by every account, at that. I never said anything absolutely will happen; I merely suggested it’s possible. What other people might be saying neither here or there. I think you have an odd idea of how nostalgia affects people and how they view media. A nostalgic callback, cameo or dragging an old character back for another go isn’t a cushion against a bad product; it only serves to exacerbate its issues, because now they’re reusing an asset people loved, and squandering them in something they dislike. There are numerous cases in film where this is exactly what happened to very ill effect. I only used Rise of Skywalker as an example, not to suggest that it’s the only bad one or something. While the entire sequel trilogy presents a solid case of how not to follow through with a saga, I used RoS as an example specifically because of just how hard the film leaned on callbacks, even having the gall to exhume the goddamn Emperor because they had nowhere else to go after the clusterfuck TLJ left behind (though it’s both amusing and irritating how frequently it obviously backhands TLJ at every opportunity). They even pulled out that stupid medal for Chewbacca, because it was so charming and memorable, and we remember. Remember that medal? Do you? Love it, you ingrates! Credentials? Whatever. I’m sure some people still get hyped over vertical slice bullshit or “in-engine” cinematics that get peddled as “gameplay” footage, like the sort of dishonest nonsense that we were shovel-fed at the hopefully now-defunct E3. You’ll see OMG YES or whatever else in comments, but who cares? To be clear, when I say that it’s a “reboot” of these characters, it’s essentially resetting where they were before the end of the story. Part of what was supposed to make ME3 feel like closure is that we got the sense that these characters would get some sort of long-term reprieve when it was all over. Sure, there’s always something more that people do since life goes on, but there is a point where I feel the focus on specific characters should end and move on to the next. With that in mind, I would suggest that it would actually be better then to just move on to a new set of characters, even if we were to commit to this Milky Way follow-up. Let the original cast have their much-earned peace, and let “Admiral” or whatever Shepard live out their life elsewhere. Let Primarch Vakarian do whatever he does, or Citadel’s #1 bestseller novels by Javik go referenced somewhere. I mean, really, after defeating the reapers, would it even be appropriate to be “Commander” Shepard anymore? Is the Alliance military that much of a bitch to rank up in? It doesn’t seem fair. I mean, fuckin’ Ashley got to rank up just hanging out in the cargo bay.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 8, 2020 15:14:41 GMT
I never said anything absolutely will happen I never said you, specifically. Just "some people". I think you have an odd idea of how nostalgia affects people and how they view media. A nostalgic callback, cameo or dragging an old character back for another go isn’t a cushion against a bad product; it only serves to exacerbate its issues, because now they’re reusing an asset people loved, and squandering them in something they dislike Well, if your intention is to make something like Picard, sure. Even so, Ryker and Picard together again was a big pull for a lot of people to watch the show and it was one of the better rated episodes of the show. But if it is your firm belief that Bioware can only pull a Picard ... well, what does it matter who and what it uses? While you can disregard marketing material, doesn't mean everyone will. You need to disconnect from yourself, to understand how and why things work the way they work. If you can't do that or even recognize that other people will function differently to you, then there is no point in arguing with you what Bioware should do to get mind share. To be clear, when I say that it’s a “reboot” of these characters, it’s essentially resetting where they were before the end of the story If it means we get to see and experience some of that off screen character progression that happened to most of them, for ourselves and not have it serve as a rewrite of characters, between games and make them more consistent, then I'm all for it. And even so, TNG was a story about a group of starfleet officers being put in different scenarios and just reacting to them, which can be just as fascinating and exciting. We are already introduced to the MET crew, they are mostly well received, so much so that they could be considered universally accepted. Which can't be said for the Andromeda crew.
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