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Post by KaiserShep on Sept 26, 2020 6:48:11 GMT
Of course, having more substantial content added doesn't really need to translate into actually integrating more companions into the roster I would very much appreciate if we did. I find the ME3 roster anemic and adding some more variety to it, would go a long way for me. As much as someone might want so-and-so & co to be added to the ship itself, nothing dictates that this needs to be the case if the devs decided to put more character content in the game. One of the things I've always felt is a bit of a weakness in Mass Effect was that characters that don't live on our ship seem to largely vanish out of existence once our little dialogue sessions end. There's nothing precluding that from being changed. Example, you're an adventurer with a ship, and there are notable characters on and off, and at least some of the ones off the ship live in homes or apartments you can visit, that sort of thing. I don't expect much of anything remotely like this to be added retroactively to any old Mass Effect, but I would like to see the world feel more populated outside of our little home bases. If we are to add more "Diana Allers" to the game, i.e. irrelevant people that we have no connection to and are just there for eye candy and lip service, no thanks. Which is why I don't care for most of the ME3 Normandy crew, outside of our squad and I have no way of developing any bond with characters like Cullen and Josephine in DA:I. This is a mindset I feel is created by BioWare's disproportionate treatment of content across these characters. Followers simply get a great deal more, have more in-depth quest lines, and some get even more favor than most, and might even get a whole DLC with them at the center. Periphery characters like ship crew or people outside of your base essentially live at the shallow end of the word budget pool, which is a large part why a lot of NPC relationships outside of main followers just don't feel as meaningful.
In Mass Effect 2, I benched Mordin throughout most of the game. The one and only time he actually saw combat for me was during his loyalty mission, otherwise stayed permanently in the tech lab where I felt he was better suited. If his quest was another non-combat mission like Thane or Samara, instead just finding Saleon and the data, very little would have changed in terms of my attachment to this character. He has oodles of content aboard the Normandy, and lots of story behind him. His being a follower grants him access to a bigger, better word budget to flesh out the character. If he was just an NPC that stayed aboard the ship and never left, it's a good chance a lot of that would have been stripped away from him, because that's just how they roll.
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legendcncd
Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Sept 26, 2020 8:14:08 GMT
I feel bad for Diana Allers, as I recall she had a lot more content before they had to cut things. I have to disagree with being unable to bond with the non-squad crew in these games though. I mean Kelly, Suvi, and Josephine are my favorite characters in the Shepard Trilogy, MEA, and DAI respectively. Not to mention others I like, such as Lexi, Kallo, and so on even to characters not even in the group like Avela. Recently played all four (well I'm still in the 3/4 left of MEA PT#4) and can say the people in A are at least as much developed than most in whole OT. So much more information, interesting life stories etc.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 26, 2020 17:29:04 GMT
Recently played all four (well I'm still in the 3/4 left of MEA PT#4) and can say the people in A are at least as much developed than most in whole OT. So much more information, interesting life stories etc. I think, well, for me personally, that the way the characters talk is very ... non-verbal. It feels scripted, stilted. It feels like the characters are talking at each other, without having an actual conversation. The best way I've heard it put is "an AI approximation of organic interaction". It just doesn't feel natural.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Sept 26, 2020 18:21:57 GMT
Recently played all four (well I'm still in the 3/4 left of MEA PT#4) and can say the people in A are at least as much developed than most in whole OT. So much more information, interesting life stories etc. I think, well, for me personally, that the way the characters talk is very ... non-verbal. It feels scripted, stilted. It feels like the characters are talking at each other, without having an actual conversation. The best way I've heard it put is "an AI approximation of organic interaction". It just doesn't feel natural.
I think this experience is too subjective to really dispute, but I didn't really consider this a worse problem than other instances throughout the trilogy, or other Dragon Age for that matter, where I typically thought dialogue was a bit more engaging. There's oft-times that side character that you could swear is the same guy doing voices for numerous NPC's throughout the game or hams it up with a bad accent like Donovan Hock or something. I've yet to really encounter a proper singleplayer BioWare game where the central cast VA's were particularly bad or flat across the board.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 26, 2020 18:38:20 GMT
I think this experience is too subjective to really dispute, but I didn't really consider this a worse problem than other instances throughout the trilogy, or other Dragon Age for that matter, where I typically thought dialogue was a bit more engaging. There's oft-times that side character that you could swear is the same guy doing voices for numerous NPC's throughout the game or hams it up with a bad accent like Donovan Hock or something. I've yet to really encounter a proper singleplayer BioWare game where the central cast VA's were particularly bad or flat across the board. I don't mean it in the delivery of the VAs. Although, I will say, neither the DA:I nor ME:A cast grasped me, particularly. Dialogues between characters sound more like trying to have a conversation with someone over twitter, rather than having a face to face. Which doesn't carry the same fluidity or gravity of a face to face. The conversations don't feel or roll naturally. And I've read that as a complaint from many reviewers, critics and players alike. It can be due to some change in direction, from Montral, to some extent, being a new and inexperienced studio, trying to build a whole new narrative experience and giving it their own spin, but that's only as far as Andromeda goes. I don't recall the dialogue being as bad in DA:I, just that I found most of the cast to be insufferable cunts. Like, really miserable people to be around. Half the dialogues I heard for the first 30 hours of the game is how one character was being racially insensitive to the other. Solas took offense to something Varric said, Cassandra took offense to something Solas said, Varric took offense to something Cassandra said etc. etc. etc. I'm getting flashbacks to these conversations and I just ... I haven't played DA:I since 2014 and I'm not planning on ever picking it up again.
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Post by ClarkKent on Sept 27, 2020 8:42:30 GMT
I have to disagree with being unable to bond with the non-squad crew in these games though. I mean Kelly, Suvi, and Josephine are my favorite characters in the Shepard Trilogy, MEA, and DAI respectively. Not to mention others I like, such as Lexi, Kallo, and so on even to characters not even in the group like Avela. I have a hard time developing bonds with characters I have not carried into battle. It's a personal problem. I'm not against them, but the amount and content of Allers I got was ... not to my liking. On a slightly related note to this, I've always had the suspicion that some of my indifference towards the MEA squadmates is due to the dumbing down of squad command options. The combat was basically Ryder cleaning everything up while his accompanying two bags of meat distract some of the bullets. It was because of this that I never really felt like I was in a team that's going through stuff together.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 27, 2020 12:01:12 GMT
1) I hate Project Lazarus 1.0. I definitely don’t want 2.0. A lot of people were not fans of the lazarus project. I doubt they and more would want a 2.0. If a remake were to happen, I would guess most would not have a problem if it's removed. Can have Shepard survive with minor injuries. It wouldn't be hard. If they do remake the trilogy, I wouldn't have a problem with that since I'd be curious what they would do differently. Post Reaper War game will only be bad if it is poorly written. And Same with ME:A2 will be bad if it is poorly written.... As true as that is, there are some out there that don't care about that. They just care about the gameplay. Of course those people might be in the minority. Also, what's the point of bringing them back? We had a team(s) whose job was the save the galaxy. They did. Can't top that. Why would you want to top that? Or why does it have to be topped? One thing that could work is traveling to darkspace to make sure the reapers are no longer a threat even after being destroyed. I have no problem if an ME game takes place after ME3 with new characters. What if it's the new main character that heads to darkspace to make sure the reapers are no longer a threat? You could be a bounty hunter or mercenary hired by Hackett who wants you make sure the reapers no longer pose a threat. If not, there are other stories a new main character can experience after ME3. In any case, I'm personally not interested in the further adventures of Shepard. I just can't imagine a worthwhile storyline that can top the MET. So this wouldn't interest you? If not, how about a remake with ME2 being ME1? P.S. If we do ever go back to Shep and co., can we get Kelly back over Traynor? I never got the point of Traynor. She's like Josephine 0.5 and I never got Josephine either. Plus, who showers in their undies, anyway? Weird. I feel the same about Jack. Never understood the purpose of having an undisciplined little punk with a potty mouth. If a remake were to happen, I would not have her in the game, or instead of being mandatory, she is optional with Samara being mandatory. Have her get transferred in another ship. She doesn't have to serve her entire career in the Normandy. Why? She proved how useful she is. Mass Effect remaster checklist. Give Shepard an interrupt to punch Jack on Grissom then call her the idiotic biotic. It's a thing with me, too. It's not like there's anything wrong to have someone to come home to. You get to talk about your time on the battlefield. I just like going into the battle with my LI. I don't. The reason is because of favoritism and distraction. If there's a situation that calls for having a squadmate to do whatever that would be difficult, you would likely have the other squadmate do it instead of you LI. When bringing a LI on a mission, it can be a distraction that could/might lead to something bad. The less distractions on a mission means the less chance something could/might go wrong. One thing that bothered me was when ME3 was remade, or rather the cut was released, was the what-the-crap evac scene. As crappy as that scene is, it was made even worse when having your LI with you. I was romancing Williams when that scene popped up. I had to shake my head at that. Why have that when it happened a short time ago at the forward operating base? It was just crap.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 27, 2020 13:31:06 GMT
I feel the same about Jack. Never understood the purpose of having an undisciplined little punk with a potty mouth. If a remake were to happen, I would not have her in the game, or instead of being mandatory, she is optional with Samara being mandatory. I'm going to go about this again. I think Jack is a great character. I think ... call it headcanon, but I can pick a few queues from Jack, how she has her "sisters" tattooed to her arm, how she remembers things differently and how she thinks everyone is out to get her or betray her at some point. Jack is a powerful biotic, the most powerful one Humanity has ever produced and, therefore, an invaluable asset, which can be better used with a proper medical prescription. While Jack has problems with authority figures, she has no problem following Shepard. She may be a potty mouth, as you say, but shit, I served, I have a potty mouth, I didn't use it against my superiors and Jack is "technically" not military, as of her recruitment, but more like a merc. She's there to do a job and she'll do it. She reels in her behaviour in ME3 by a lot. If you want to make her optional, it's only fair, as long as everyone else also is. I have this policy at this point that every character Bioware chooses to introduce, I have the ability to kill at will. If it is the entire party, it's the entire party, sorry. And I was right in wanting to kill Solas and Owen, the moment I saw either one of them.
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,941 Likes: 17,668
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 27, 2020 15:44:55 GMT
I have no problem if an ME game takes place after ME3 with new characters. What if it's the new main character that heads to darkspace to make sure the reapers are no longer a threat? You could be a bounty hunter or mercenary hired by Hackett who wants you make sure the reapers no longer pose a threat. If not, there are other stories a new main character can experience after ME3. I've thought of that. I've also thought of exploring previously closed relays that might now be open or maybe weren't destroyed since they were inactive. So this wouldn't interest you? If not, how about a remake with ME2 being ME1? That idea does appeal to me. I've begun a fanfic that does that but I'm not pleased with it. That is, my version of it. That's partly because I don't have it fleshed out and am just rambling forward.
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,941 Likes: 17,668
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Biotic Booty
1031
0
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dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 27, 2020 15:51:33 GMT
I feel the same about Jack. Never understood the purpose of having an undisciplined little punk with a potty mouth. If a remake were to happen, I would not have her in the game, or instead of being mandatory, she is optional with Samara being mandatory. I'm going to go about this again. I think Jack is a great character. I think ... call it headcanon, but I can pick a few queues from Jack, how she has her "sisters" tattooed to her arm, how she remembers things differently and how she thinks everyone is out to get her or betray her at some point. Jack is a powerful biotic, the most powerful one Humanity has ever produced and, therefore, an invaluable asset, which can be better used with a proper medical prescription. While Jack has problems with authority figures, she has no problem following Shepard. She may be a potty mouth, as you say, but shit, I served, I have a potty mouth, I didn't use it against my superiors and Jack is "technically" not military, as of her recruitment, but more like a merc. She's there to do a job and she'll do it. She reels in her behaviour in ME3 by a lot. If you want to make her optional, it's only fair, as long as everyone else also is. I have this policy at this point that every character Bioware chooses to introduce, I have the ability to kill at will. If it is the entire party, it's the entire party, sorry. And I was right in wanting to kill Solas and Owen, the moment I saw either one of them. I think TIM chose her for more than one reason. First, because [at least in cutscenes] she's a very powerful biotic. Second, because it "proves" that TIM isn't stacking the team with people who love Cerberus. She's not just indifferent but actually hates them. Sure, TIM made himself look clean over it all. I do believe he rigged the game to disassociate himself from Subject Zero and David Archer. IOW, he was fully aware of what was going on but made it seem otherwise. I was never a fan of Jack but I see her role. The roles of Kasumi and Zaeed are less necessary. Tali and Garrus are already there.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 27, 2020 16:17:40 GMT
Jack is not a team player. By going after Lawson, she made herself useless to the squad. Don't need to babysit a stupid little punk who can't work with others. To fix that, remove her from the squad. Unfortunately, that option is not available in ME2.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 27, 2020 18:04:07 GMT
Jack is not a team player. By going after Lawson, she made herself useless to the squad As a representative of the organization that made her life a living hell and caused her some serious psychological trauma, do you really blame her for lashing out on Miranda? Like, assume I am a customer service representative and you are a disgruntled client. Are you going to hold back at the chance to bark at me, because we found ourselves at a party? Depending on the treatment, maybe yes, maybe not. Jack would, especially due to her mental condition. That's the kind of situation Jack finds herself against Miranda and maybe (i.e. definitely) she's not directly responsible for Jack's situation, but that's some Cerberus top brass right there and Jack's going to demand some answers out of her. It's only human. Don't need to babysit a stupid little punk who can't work with others She works with others. If she leads the fire team, she laments how she gave everything she got for the others, because she cared, before dying. She's something above dysfunctional, I get it, but she's more human than you think. That you believe the "tough girl" facade is more of a testament of how convincingly she's learned to hide her feelings, rather than anything else. Jack's a good girl. She just suffers from paranoia and D.I.D.
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,941 Likes: 17,668
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0
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 30, 2020 18:49:23 GMT
As a representative of the organization that made her life a living hell and caused her some serious psychological trauma, do you really blame her for lashing out on Miranda? Like, assume I am a customer service representative and you are a disgruntled client. Are you going to hold back at the chance to bark at me, because we found ourselves at a party? Depending on the treatment, maybe yes, maybe not. Jack would, especially due to her mental condition. That's the kind of situation Jack finds herself against Miranda and maybe (i.e. definitely) she's not directly responsible for Jack's situation, but that's some Cerberus top brass right there and Jack's going to demand some answers out of her. It's only human. Do we know how the situation came about? Sure, we know Miranda said something about Jack. Did Jack bait her? Not off the table, especially when Jack is always holed up in the sub-basement. If Jack came out it's probably because she found out something she didn't like and went to Miranda to confront her. This is conjecture but I find that more likely than Miranda seeking out Jack to talk shit to her.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 1, 2020 9:30:14 GMT
Do we know how the situation came about? Sure, we know Miranda said something about Jack. Did Jack bait her? Not off the table, especially when Jack is always holed up in the sub-basement. If Jack came out it's probably because she found out something she didn't like and went to Miranda to confront her. This is conjecture but I find that more likely than Miranda seeking out Jack to talk shit to her. The fight broke out in the Mesh hall. Miranda's quarters are night next to it and Jack could just be up for a bite. I think their meeting was chance, but I do expect that Jack was the instigator. Miranda is too smart to be baited and Jack probably snapped when she saw she wasn't getting the reaction she wanted. Or, more likely, Miranda saw early on through what Jack was trying to do and baited her back. And now I want to know how that conversation went. This is why I say they bounce off each other so well, that they basically write themselves. You can drop these two in any situation, just see them react and be entertained. I feel robbed by the fact we got so little of it in ME2 and only 6 lines more in Citadel DLC. And I understand, the writing team may have had other priorities and other things to worry about, but that's like having a season of TNG and getting LaForge and Data sharing 1 scene in the entire season. If there was a wasted potential police, I'd have the Bioware writing staff arrested.
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kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 1, 2020 9:52:03 GMT
I have a hard time developing bonds with characters I have not carried into battle. It's a personal problem. I'm not against them, but the amount and content of Allers I got was ... not to my liking. On a slightly related note to this, I've always had the suspicion that some of my indifference towards the MEA squadmates is due to the dumbing down of squad command options. The combat was basically Ryder cleaning everything up while his accompanying two bags of meat distract some of the bullets. It was because of this that I never really felt like I was in a team that's going through stuff together. It’s hard to see how the follower command system has any bearing on the emotional attachment to companions. Like, would this really even make a difference if companions were entirely mute during missions? For me, it was always the companions’ reactions to the stories that unfolded during any particular mission, like if you bring Wrex and Liara to Noveria. That was really the only thing that mattered. Mechanical stuff like combat commands always felt divorced from the character content. If I had to judge characters on the command system, I’d hate all of the ME2 crew. It was so annoying constantly forcing them to take cover while they carelessly just ran out while YMIR mechs were mowing into them. I just stopped bringing Kasumi anywhere. That little shit just constantly tried to sneak attack anything that moved and paid the price.
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An unknown possibly hostile flotilla detected at eight hundred astronomical units from the sun!
4,800
Jun 29, 2017 12:57:11 GMT
June 2017
legendcncd
Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
LegendCNCD / AsariLoverFI
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Oct 1, 2020 10:08:01 GMT
On a slightly related note to this, I've always had the suspicion that some of my indifference towards the MEA squadmates is due to the dumbing down of squad command options. The combat was basically Ryder cleaning everything up while his accompanying two bags of meat distract some of the bullets. It was because of this that I never really felt like I was in a team that's going through stuff together. It’s hard to see how the follower command system has any bearing on the emotional attachment to companions. Like, would this really even make a difference if companions were entirely mute during missions? For me, it was always the companions’ reactions to the stories that unfolded during any particular mission, like if you bring Wrex and Liara to Noveria. That was really the only thing that mattered. Mechanical stuff like combat commands always felt divorced from the character content. If I had to judge characters on the command system, I’d hate all of the ME2 crew. It was so annoying constantly forcing them to take cover while they carelessly just ran out while YMIR mechs were mowing into them. I just stopped bringing Kasumi anywhere. That little shit just constantly tried to sneak attack anything that moved and paid the price. Yep, and in MEA they actually do help you making combos etc. when ordered (if powers are not on cooldown). I had so much problems getting team mates to do things in original trilogy to no end. Especially in 2 and 3, looking at Ashley's bug too Also I find MEA crew to be much more humane than any other, and the banter helps.
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Post by ClarkKent on Oct 1, 2020 18:43:10 GMT
On a slightly related note to this, I've always had the suspicion that some of my indifference towards the MEA squadmates is due to the dumbing down of squad command options. The combat was basically Ryder cleaning everything up while his accompanying two bags of meat distract some of the bullets. It was because of this that I never really felt like I was in a team that's going through stuff together. It’s hard to see how the follower command system has any bearing on the emotional attachment to companions. Like, would this really even make a difference if companions were entirely mute during missions? For me, it was always the companions’ reactions to the stories that unfolded during any particular mission, like if you bring Wrex and Liara to Noveria. That was really the only thing that mattered. Mechanical stuff like combat commands always felt divorced from the character content. If I had to judge characters on the command system, I’d hate all of the ME2 crew. It was so annoying constantly forcing them to take cover while they carelessly just ran out while YMIR mechs were mowing into them. I just stopped bringing Kasumi anywhere. That little shit just constantly tried to sneak attack anything that moved and paid the price. It actually makes you feel like you're in a team for one. Part of the reason why I loved going through the deep roads for the first time in DAO was that it created a huge sense of attachment with the companions afterwards. The dialogue helps for sure, but I don't remember any lines of what either Alistair or Morrigan had to say in that quest. What I do remember is that I actually had to use their abilities to the fullest, thus making the warden and his companions feel like an actual team. The MEA squadmates go freelance in combat and it's saddening.
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kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 1, 2020 19:26:40 GMT
It’s hard to see how the follower command system has any bearing on the emotional attachment to companions. Like, would this really even make a difference if companions were entirely mute during missions? For me, it was always the companions’ reactions to the stories that unfolded during any particular mission, like if you bring Wrex and Liara to Noveria. That was really the only thing that mattered. Mechanical stuff like combat commands always felt divorced from the character content. If I had to judge characters on the command system, I’d hate all of the ME2 crew. It was so annoying constantly forcing them to take cover while they carelessly just ran out while YMIR mechs were mowing into them. I just stopped bringing Kasumi anywhere. That little shit just constantly tried to sneak attack anything that moved and paid the price. It actually makes you feel like you're in a team for one. Part of the reason why I loved going through the deep roads for the first time in DAO was that it created a huge sense of attachment with the companions afterwards. The dialogue helps for sure, but I don't remember any lines of what either Alistair or Morrigan had to say in that quest. What I do remember is that I actually had to use their abilities to the fullest, thus making the warden and his companions feel like an actual team. The MEA squadmates go freelance in combat and it's saddening.
In this context, it seems like the companion is more a source of attachment akin to the attachment you'd have to a favorite weapon, rather than an actual character. This is why I pose the question of whether or not it would make a difference if the companions you brought with you were mute through the entire mission, reacting to nothing and just being there to serve as a power supplement.
Point is, I don't really buy it. More than likely, it doesn't matter what the combat system was like. If the actual character content wasn't enough for the companions to resonate, the mechanical underpinnings would do little to change that.
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Post by ClarkKent on Oct 2, 2020 18:57:29 GMT
It actually makes you feel like you're in a team for one. Part of the reason why I loved going through the deep roads for the first time in DAO was that it created a huge sense of attachment with the companions afterwards. The dialogue helps for sure, but I don't remember any lines of what either Alistair or Morrigan had to say in that quest. What I do remember is that I actually had to use their abilities to the fullest, thus making the warden and his companions feel like an actual team. The MEA squadmates go freelance in combat and it's saddening.
In this context, it seems like the companion is more a source of attachment akin to the attachment you'd have to a favorite weapon, rather than an actual character. This is why I pose the question of whether or not it would make a difference if the companions you brought with you were mute through the entire mission, reacting to nothing and just being there to serve as a power supplement.
Point is, I don't really buy it. More than likely, it doesn't matter what the combat system was like. If the actual character content wasn't enough for the companions to resonate, the mechanical underpinnings would do little to change that.
The Andromeda writing was a lot worse - and that is a factor, sure. That said, being able to actually control and use my squad plays a huge role in my enjoyment and immersion of a game that is primarily about building and getting to know my squad. It's not something you necessarily need to 'buy' because it's clearly something that doesn't rank for you - but for me it does. And I don't think it's an entirely alien notion either. A large appeal of games like Darkest Dungeon, X-Com, or Crusader Kings is that you can gain attachment to randomly generated characters just through engaging with the gameplay - no cutscenes, or clever dialogue needed. In Andromeda any feelings of comradery and companionship are entirely confined and segregated to cutscenes only. Ryder and Vetra talk like they're squadmates and then along comes gameplay and Vetra is halfway across the battlefield doing god knows what while Ryder does all the real work - there's a dissonance there that hurts immersions and investment in the characters.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 2, 2020 23:20:32 GMT
That said, being able to actually control and use my squad plays a huge role in my enjoyment and immersion of a game that is primarily about building and getting to know my squad. Not only that. Maybe it's just me, but being on the field with my "team" makes me feel responsible for them. I do my best so that none of them gets downed, as that is a failure for me as their commander and each fight we pull through with no "losses", the better I think we do and the more "proud" I feel of us. Which forms a bond. You went out, on the field, you bled together and you got home alive together, because you worked well together. That enhances my ability to get attached with the characters, if the writing is moderately competent to work on that attachment. Some squadmates in some games put me off so much that getting them downed or killed is, like, just what I'd expect of them. They fail me every time and they don't deserve my help, because they can't hold their own. And then there are the ones that don't go out on the field with me that I don't care about, because they have no idea what it is I had to go through. They may as well be Khalisa Al-Jilani.
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Post by AnDromedary on Oct 6, 2020 17:30:22 GMT
That said, being able to actually control and use my squad plays a huge role in my enjoyment and immersion of a game that is primarily about building and getting to know my squad. Not only that. Maybe it's just me, but being on the field with my "team" makes me feel responsible for them. I do my best so that none of them gets downed, as that is a failure for me as their commander and each fight we pull through with no "losses", the better I think we do and the more "proud" I feel of us. Which forms a bond. You went out, on the field, you bled together and you got home alive together, because you worked well together. That enhances my ability to get attached with the characters, if the writing is moderately competent to work on that attachment. Some squadmates in some games put me off so much that getting them downed or killed is, like, just what I'd expect of them. They fail me every time and they don't deserve my help, because they can't hold their own. And then there are the ones that don't go out on the field with me that I don't care about, because they have no idea what it is I had to go through. They may as well be Khalisa Al-Jilani. That's a very good point. Giving orders to your squad mates in he MET definitely made them more "present" within the missions than the Andromeda guys.
I am not a bg fan of full on party based combat systems like in DA or the earlier BW games because I do want to play and immerse myself in one single character and controlling just her/him is part of the immersion for me. I don't want to be a bodyless entity, hovering 30 feet over the battlefield giving invisible orders, I want to be ON the battlefield and IN the action.
That's where Mass Effect 1/2/3 had the perfect compromise. I was always Shepard. I did have the ability to give orders to my squad but only through this one perspective, no zipping around, no hovering, I had to figure things out from his/her point of view. Sure there was the pause function but I always just saw that as compensation for the fact that Shepard would have far better spatial and tactical awareness in combat than I - the player - would have. It was the perfect middle ground
There are very few games that did this well. Most of them are tactical shooters rather than RPGs (like Ghost Recon, or ARMA but they often get very complex with their command menues where ME just stayed simple and intuitive). Another great game in that regard was Star Wars: Republic Commando and there, too, I thought they managed to really make me care about the squad I am with (even if they are just numbered clones). SO there is probably a good point to this.
Barely even being able to command the companions in Andormeda certainly took away from me feeling like they were really valuable parts of the team outside their dialogue scenes, because they were basically just a little side note in combat whereas in the MET - especially on higher difficulties, when you use well timed power combos and such a lot - having the right companion could be invaluable.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 6, 2020 17:40:23 GMT
I am not a bg fan of full on party based combat systems like in DA or the earlier BW games because I do want to play and immerse myself in one single character and controlling just her/him is part of the immersion for me. I don't want to be a bodyless entity, hovering 30 feet over the battlefield giving invisible orders, I want to be ON the battlefield and IN the action That's never been an issue for me.
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Post by AnDromedary on Oct 6, 2020 17:45:28 GMT
I am not a bg fan of full on party based combat systems like in DA or the earlier BW games because I do want to play and immerse myself in one single character and controlling just her/him is part of the immersion for me. I don't want to be a bodyless entity, hovering 30 feet over the battlefield giving invisible orders, I want to be ON the battlefield and IN the action That's never been an issue for me. I don't like it. As I said, for me it's mainly about immersion. I like that sort of control in RTS games like Command & Conquer, especially the first one because during the trashy mission briefings, other officers would talk directly to me as a commander. Than the mission would start and you just get the feeling that you are controlling the army through some satellite based interface or something. There, it works well. But RPGs, especially those where I do have a main character who I am supposed to be (like in Dragon Age), it always took me out of the game world to some extent.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 6, 2020 18:09:05 GMT
That's never been an issue for me. I don't like it. As I said, for me it's mainly about immersion. I like that sort of control in RTS games like Command & Conquer, especially the first one because during the trashy mission briefings, other officers would talk directly to me as a commander. Than the mission would start and you just get the feeling that you are controlling the army through some satellite based interface or something. There, it works well. But RPGs, especially those where I do have a main character who I am supposed to be (like in Dragon Age), it always took me out of the game world to some extent. I've got a problem with shooters. Usually. I have ... I experience nausea and disorientation. Some games do it more, others less. FPS usually are the greatest offenders of this. CoD2, Half-Life 2, Wolfenstein: Youngblood, etc. It's more often than not. I am really glad that, so far, Mass Effect has not done that to me. TPS are not as offensice in that regard to me. I prefer as less First Person perspective action as possible.
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 11, 2020 12:52:17 GMT
Some folks report that adjusting FOV settings can help with that. (Can't say myself; I don't seem to be subject to any form of motion sickness.)
Concerning DA, those games are mostly playable without controlling the NPCs, friendly fire effects and DA2 boss fights excepted.
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