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Post by General Mahad on Aug 10, 2021 19:27:37 GMT
To be fair, ME:L sold well above EA’s expectations but they haven’t given any sales figures yet or what their expectations were. Anyone wonder why that is? Dunno but I’m guessing they are waiting until they hit a major milestone like five million copies. By what I can see from Steam and PSN, the game sold well which is good for BioWare.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 11, 2021 0:08:50 GMT
Dunno but I’m guessing they are waiting until they hit a major milestone like five million copies. That's, uh ... a lofty target.
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Post by vergil on Aug 11, 2021 2:07:23 GMT
I think it's pretty much a given that Shepard and some other fan favorites like Garrus and Tali are going to return. Everything (admittedly little but still) we've seen so far makes it feel like this is a last ditch effort to resurrect Bioware. Shepard and all these classic characters are their "break glass in case of emergency" countermeasure. I expect we'll also see a level of fan service that makes the Citadel DLC looks like a grim and serious story. It's going to be wild if DA4 joins the rest of the Bioware flops and this all ends up for naught.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Aug 11, 2021 8:43:54 GMT
I'd say it's far from a given considering both of them can die on multiple occasions. Again, it comes back to how much they plan to railroad us with a canon, and I really struggle to think they'd decide virtually everything - it goes against the spirit of the games. I expect many plot lines to end up in the same place and things like that, but reviving not just Shepard themselves but also companions who could be dead seems too much of a stretch for me.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 11, 2021 10:23:01 GMT
I'd say it's far from a given considering both of them can die on multiple occasions. I think, when it comes to keeping your job, that matters a whole lot less, when compared to the positive buzz and sales that would generate. But I also don't think Bioware is bringing anyone back. There's a reason why 15 months ago I said that Liara would be coming back, but had no info on anyone else. Maybe that was just the decision for the trailer, that was taken at the time and more people have been planned to return since, but haven't heard anything about it. Even so, there's like 5-10 people working on Will Continue right now, with Mike and Mac being two of them, while the rest are working on DA4, so developments are going to be slow on the ME front.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 11, 2021 11:19:56 GMT
I'd say it's far from a given considering both of them can die on multiple occasions. Again, it comes back to how much they plan to railroad us with a canon, and I really struggle to think they'd decide virtually everything - it goes against the spirit of the games. I expect many plot lines to end up in the same place and things like that, but reviving not just Shepard themselves but also companions who could be dead seems too much of a stretch for me. The same could be said about t'soni, right? She can be killed on the beam run. She could also be dead on the unknown planet since the door to the SR2 doesn't open suggesting everyone onboard is dead.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Aug 11, 2021 11:55:41 GMT
themikefest it's true she can also be that, but the beam run is the only way to do it, making it just one very unlikely scenario. Both Tali and Garrus can die in either the suicide mission (more than once there, and Tali is even on the "most likely to die" list) or the beam run, and in addition to this Tali can die with the destruction of the Quarians. I think if maybe, like Liara, it's only one very specific low-risk situation maybe they would hand-wave it, but with so many for both of them it's just a bit too much. Like, I get that these names are cash-cows, but if they start doing too much hand-waiving I think people will struggle to take the next game seriously. I love these companions too, hell I romanced Garrus, but it just wouldn't sit well with me to do this. I'll agree with people when saying that the OT was Shepard's story, but I don't think ME as a whole should be Shepard's story... stories where there's only one protag who continuously saves the world endless amounts of times really just makes me role my eyes (only setting I can live with it is in the super-hero genre, but ME never struck me to belong there).
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Post by Iakus on Aug 11, 2021 13:23:01 GMT
Man, I'm gonna need a big bag of popcorn when the first trailer finally drops...
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Post by themikefest on Aug 11, 2021 13:33:31 GMT
I think if maybe, like Liara, it's only one very specific low-risk situation maybe they would hand-wave it, but with so many for both of them it's just a bit too much. If they can hand wave that, then Bioware can hand wave whatever they want.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 11, 2021 13:38:21 GMT
Man, I'm gonn aned a big bag of popcorn when the first trailer finally drops... Especially when people find out we'll be playing as an agent of Cerberus, Jacob Taylor is the human councilor, Javik is the leader of the asari, and space hamster is a squadmate.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 11, 2021 15:20:13 GMT
I'm just going to say that, internally, Bioware has all the bases covered. Ryder Andromeda sequel? Check! Shepard Milky Way sequel? Check! New PC Andromeda/Milky Way sequel? Check! The thing is that, for the next game, other than covering a basis of how and why, there isn't much to it, as of yet. And it's also quite interchangeable. The choice for protagonist and squad won't be made until far later. Even location, if they think they can sell people another Andromeda. The thing with compartmentalization of development is that it is all very flexible in its interchangeability. The fact that Andromeda is so similar to the Milky Way is another thing that conveniences them a lot. And it seems it never was from lack of originality, but rather on purpose. Citadel or Nexus makes little difference.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 11, 2021 15:49:32 GMT
I'm just going to say that, internally, Bioware has all the bases covered. Ryder Andromeda sequel? Check! Shepard Milky Way sequel? Check! New PC Andromeda/Milky Way sequel? Check! The thing is that, for the next game, other than covering a basis of how and why, there isn't much to it, as of yet. And it's also quite interchangeable. The choice for protagonist and squad won't be made until far later. Even location, if they think they can sell people another Andromeda. The thing with compartmentalization of development is that it is all very flexible in its interchangeability. The fact that Andromeda is so similar to the Milky Way is another thing that conveniences them a lot. And it seems it never was from lack of originality, but rather on purpose. Citadel or Nexus makes little difference. For choice of protagonist: If they stay with Ryder, people will be p*ssed because it's not Shepard If Shepard returns, people are gonna be p*ssed because it's not Ryder (and especially if they reset Shepard yet again, or worse, make it a clone!) If they go with a fresh protagonist, people are gonna be p*ssed because it's not Ryder OR Shepard If they go back to Andromeda, people will be p*ssed because Andromeda If they go back to the Milky way, people will be p*ssed because it's NOT Andromeda, especially if their personal endings to the trilogy aren't validated. The IP may have been loved in the past, but at this point it's so radioactive I don't know HOW they think they can salvage it.
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Post by vergil on Aug 11, 2021 16:31:17 GMT
I'd say it's far from a given considering both of them can die on multiple occasions. Again, it comes back to how much they plan to railroad us with a canon, and I really struggle to think they'd decide virtually everything - it goes against the spirit of the games. I expect many plot lines to end up in the same place and things like that, but reviving not just Shepard themselves but also companions who could be dead seems too much of a stretch for me. To be fair they've been going against the spirit of Mass Effect since 3. Likewise bringing back Shepard and Liara already guarantees that some people's playthroughs will be invalidated. If they're already going to be handwaving things away the (frankly unlikely) chance of the two fan favorite characters possibly dying isn't much of a stretch to me. If they were interested in trying to do something fresh and innovative they would be trying fix the mess that is the aborted Andromeda trilogy but it's clear they're going all in with the nostalgia baiting to try and revive the series.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 11, 2021 16:36:41 GMT
For choice of protagonist: If they stay with Ryder, people will be p*ssed because it's not Shepard If Shepard returns, people are gonna be p*ssed because it's not Ryder (and especially if they reset Shepard yet again, or worse, make it a clone!) If they go with a fresh protagonist, people are gonna be p*ssed because it's not Ryder OR Shepard If they go back to Andromeda, people will be p*ssed because Andromeda If they go back to the Milky way, people will be p*ssed because it's NOT Andromeda, especially if their personal endings to the trilogy aren't validated. The IP may have been loved in the past, but at this point it's so radioactive I don't know HOW they think they can salvage it. For starters, that's not my problem. Never was, never will be. That's Bioware's problem. They laid their bed and they can sleep on it. If they want to keep going with this franchise, they obviously think they can sell it. There is obviously no new customer segment waiting for them, that much is certain, to buy their games. If Anthem showed us something, is that the segment that exists, is the one that buys AAA games at the $5 mark. Which is great for sales numbers, not so much for revenue, which is what matters most of all. It's interesting to see what they decide to do with it and who they care less for, because at this point, that's what it boils down to. Going back to the Milky Way with a new protagonist isn't going to please the Shepard fans, not going to Andromeda is an even bigger fuck you to the Ryder fans. They'll probably throw some Andromeda scraps here and there and be all like "we couldn't possibly do more" and wash their hands clean of responsibility. Liara alone isn't a big selling point for a game set in the hundreds of years after ME3 and even if you do consider the possibility of a Grunt cameo, which, in case of QuizzyBunny 's reasoning, since Grunt can be dead twice, that means it's a big filter to not bring anyone else back, because almost every other character has at least 2 occasions in which they can die and even then, Liara will not be a LI for any new protagonist, meaning even that card you intended to play is, effectively, at least halfway spent. So right out the gate, you have a very weak prospect for a game. And I do understand that there are some people that only care for a fresh cast of characters and don't particularly care where or when this takes place. How many people would Bioware have pissed to pander to that crowd and how big would one consider it being? Everyone that hasn't played a single Mass Effect game in the almost 15 years of its existence. So people who never cared for the franchise and Will Continue to not care. That's a fantastic prospect.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 11, 2021 16:37:17 GMT
Garrus and Tali yet again too? This sequel is getting worse all the time.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 11, 2021 16:42:20 GMT
If they were interested in trying to do something fresh and innovative they would be trying fix the mess that is the aborted Andromeda trilogy but it's clear they're going all in with the nostalgia baiting to try and revive the series. I'm all for it, but we also have to be realistic. There's no way they'd sell that game. Oh, sure, it'd sell some copies and if it were good, it might even get some good will for the studio. But they'd be operating under the rule to minimize loses. Meaning as small budget, risk avert as possible. Which automatically limits its market performance. The only thing you've got is nostalgia, especially coming down from the LE, but they're not doing that, either. They're sidelining Andromeda, bringing Liara back and the cast will be all new, set in the hundreds of years after ME3. I don't know who this game is for.
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Post by vergil on Aug 11, 2021 17:01:16 GMT
'm all for it, but we also have to be realistic. There's no way they'd sell that game. Oh don't get me wrong I'm not saying that's feasible or that they even should do that but NME definitely seems like them taking a step back into safer waters.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 11, 2021 17:07:57 GMT
'm all for it, but we also have to be realistic. There's no way they'd sell that game. Oh don't get me wrong I'm not saying that's feasible or that they even should do that but NME definitely seems like them taking a step back into safer waters. Risk aversion is a good strategy, when you've fucked up this bad. But again, I don't think they're going to go back to the Trilogy cast.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 11, 2021 17:24:13 GMT
For choice of protagonist: If they stay with Ryder, people will be p*ssed because it's not Shepard Some will with good reason. Why continue playing as a character who lacks a backbone to not be able to standup for themselves? Would it be safe to say there are more, most likely a lot more, people who like Shepard than Ryder? That might cause some to be upset about, but it also could be looked at Shepard retraining after the injuries he/she suffered at the end of ME3 to get back to the condition he/she was before the suicide beam run. It might bother some, but I wouldn't have a problem since I've mentioned that I can see a new main character for the next ME game Possibly, but if the game has a new main character, it might not be as bad as if they brought back little Ryder. If the teaser is to be believed, it looks like Bioware has chosen the red. I guess everyone will have to use radaway or rad x. It would not be hard for Bioware to have a game take place after the events of ME3. I'm sure they know x number of people will be upset about anything they do. Time will answer those questions.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 11, 2021 17:26:09 GMT
Would it be safe to say there are more, most likely a lot more, people who like Shepard than Ryder? Shit. I'd buy 10 copies, if Shepard returned. Along with the rest of the crew.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Aug 11, 2021 17:55:21 GMT
I hope I'm not coming out as a fanatic or anything. I love Shepard and I love all the companions, the reason for not wanting them in the next game isn't because I don't want to see them again - I'm just kinda okay with where I left my Shepard and I'm afraid what digging her up again would do to her story. I just don't want a failed last game that leaves her unresolved like Ryder...
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 11, 2021 18:07:11 GMT
If they stay with Ryder, people will be p*ssed because it's not Shepard If Shepard returns, people are gonna be p*ssed because it's not Ryder (and especially if they reset Shepard yet again, or worse, make it a clone!) If they go with a fresh protagonist, people are gonna be p*ssed because it's not Ryder OR Shepard If they go back to Andromeda, people will be p*ssed because Andromeda If they go back to the Milky way, people will be p*ssed because it's NOT Andromeda, especially if their personal endings to the trilogy aren't validated. I don't see why we can't have a Ryder who was successful and developed a backbone. I know there was reliance on SAM throughout the entire game except near the end. SAM isn't functioning and Ryder has to succeed on his own. He does. Shows how he grew in the game. That said, I still think Ryder won't take with the majority of fans. Fact is, whether they admit to it or not, people wanted Shepard 2.0. And we would have had that if Alex had survived. MEA was meant to be a fresh start and show us a follower forced to turn into a leader. That's what we got. So, yeah, Ryder was stepped all over but then learned that wasn't acceptable anymore. As for Shep I just don't want it. To me, it's clear Shepard's story, and the story of the squadmates and friends, was meant to be wrapped up for good. It's why I prefer the ending where Shepard survives. I can imagine Shep retiring in peace with their romantic partner, whoever that may be. To have survived that ending Shep had to be broken and the shattered infrastructure was unlikely to be capable of restoring Shepard to perfection like it did with Cerberus. Fresh protagonist is the way to go. Somewhat more lighthearted, maybe one of those soldiers who has breathed a sigh of relief after the end of the Reaper War. Maybe then a new threat pops up and said soldier has to rise up and become the leader the people need. This would be a soldier who has seen action] in the war but who is young enough to be in her/his prime. Shepard already had a strong reputation at the beginning of ME1. This person would be known but not in the same way. More like a survivor who protected enough people and killed enough husk-ish things that he/she is seen as a hero. Like I said, not Shepard level her but still a hero. Then, over the course of however many games we get, this soldier develops a big reputation. Just an off-the-top of my head kind of thing I like to do but something along those lines. Alliance hero, seasoned but without the huge reputation, survivor of the Reaper Wars and ready for action.
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Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 11, 2021 18:08:59 GMT
I hope I'm not coming out as a fanatic or anything. I love Shepard and I love all the companions, the reason for not wanting them in the next game isn't because I don't want to see them again - I'm just kinda okay with where I left my Shepard and I'm afraid what digging her up again would do to her story. I just don't want a failed last game that leaves her unresolved like Ryder... Here's Shep returning: Reaper-ified, puts the crew into it and takes off to Andromeda, which probably wouldn't take longer than a year. Ta dah! So anyway, I hate Control ending.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 11, 2021 18:49:53 GMT
I hope I'm not coming out as a fanatic or anything. I love Shepard and I love all the companions, the reason for not wanting them in the next game isn't because I don't want to see them again - I'm just kinda okay with where I left my Shepard and I'm afraid what digging her up again would do to her story. I just don't want a failed last game that leaves her unresolved like Ryder... I definitely don't consider the current outcomes resolved. Even a game where we try to undo Synthesis is a better game resolution. Because Synthesis is definitely a nightmare situation.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 11, 2021 18:55:08 GMT
I don't see why we can't have a Ryder who was successful and developed a backbone. It's not that you can't. Imagine the studio behind Terminator: Dark Fate, recent example, making a Dark Fate 2. Maybe Demi is a real intimidating leader of humanity for real this time. Do I trust the idea being delivered competently? If yes now, then why wasn't it the first time? The interest isn't there and there's no trust involved in the endeavor. To put it bluntly, nobody cares. Will some people still go watch the movie? Absolutely. Is it a viable product? Absolutely not. Right now, you can't sell it, to make a profit. And nobody operates to make a loss.
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