Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Aug 11, 2021 19:06:37 GMT
For choice of protagonist: If they stay with Ryder, people will be p*ssed because it's not Shepard If Shepard returns, people are gonna be p*ssed because it's not Ryder (and especially if they reset Shepard yet again, or worse, make it a clone!) If they go with a fresh protagonist, people are gonna be p*ssed because it's not Ryder OR Shepard If they go back to Andromeda, people will be p*ssed because Andromeda If they go back to the Milky way, people will be p*ssed because it's NOT Andromeda, especially if their personal endings to the trilogy aren't validated. The IP may have been loved in the past, but at this point it's so radioactive I don't know HOW they think they can salvage it. For starters, that's not my problem. Never was, never will be. That's Bioware's problem. They laid their bed and they can sleep on it. If they want to keep going with this franchise, they obviously think they can sell it. There is obviously no new customer segment waiting for them, that much is certain, to buy their games. If Anthem showed us something, is that the segment that exists, is the one that buys AAA games at the $5 mark. Which is great for sales numbers, not so much for revenue, which is what matters most of all. It's interesting to see what they decide to do with it and who they care less for, because at this point, that's what it boils down to. Going back to the Milky Way with a new protagonist isn't going to please the Shepard fans, not going to Andromeda is an even bigger fuck you to the Ryder fans. They'll probably throw some Andromeda scraps here and there and be all like "we couldn't possibly do more" and wash their hands clean of responsibility. Liara alone isn't a big selling point for a game set in the hundreds of years after ME3 and even if you do consider the possibility of a Grunt cameo, which, in case of QuizzyBunny 's reasoning, since Grunt can be dead twice, that means it's a big filter to not bring anyone else back, because almost every other character has at least 2 occasions in which they can die and even then, Liara will not be a LI for any new protagonist, meaning even that card you intended to play is, effectively, at least halfway spent. So right out the gate, you have a very weak prospect for a game. And I do understand that there are some people that only care for a fresh cast of characters and don't particularly care where or when this takes place. How many people would Bioware have pissed to pander to that crowd and how big would one consider it being? Everyone that hasn't played a single Mass Effect game in the almost 15 years of its existence. So people who never cared for the franchise and Will Continue to not care. That's a fantastic prospect. Oh, I know it's not your problem. Or mine. I'm just gonna be sitting here with the popcorn because the shrieking is gonna be EPIC! Bioware has splintered their Mass Effect fanbase so many ways with their mismanagement I don' t know how they're gonna put it back together.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 11, 2021 19:16:48 GMT
That might cause some to be upset about, but it also could be looked at Shepard retraining after the injuries he/she suffered at the end of ME3 to get back to the condition he/she was before the suicide beam run. I'm not talking about resetting back to level 1 (though that would probably happen too) I mean reset as in zeroed out all of Shepard's accomplishments like they did in previous games. You know, where the Council acknowledged the existence of the Reapers in ME1, then went 'Ah, yes 'Reapers'" in ME2. Or have LIs and other companions completely ditch or friendzone Shepard (or in this case, die of old age, I guess)
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Aug 11, 2021 19:23:50 GMT
If they stay with Ryder, people will be p*ssed because it's not Shepard If Shepard returns, people are gonna be p*ssed because it's not Ryder (and especially if they reset Shepard yet again, or worse, make it a clone!) If they go with a fresh protagonist, people are gonna be p*ssed because it's not Ryder OR Shepard If they go back to Andromeda, people will be p*ssed because Andromeda If they go back to the Milky way, people will be p*ssed because it's NOT Andromeda, especially if their personal endings to the trilogy aren't validated. I don't see why we can't have a Ryder who was successful and developed a backbone. I know there was reliance on SAM throughout the entire game except near the end. SAM isn't functioning and Ryder has to succeed on his own. He does. Shows how he grew in the game. That said, I still think Ryder won't take with the majority of fans. Fact is, whether they admit to it or not, people wanted Shepard 2.0. And we would have had that if Alex had survived. MEA was meant to be a fresh start and show us a follower forced to turn into a leader. That's what we got. So, yeah, Ryder was stepped all over but then learned that wasn't acceptable anymore. As for Shep I just don't want it. To me, it's clear Shepard's story, and the story of the squadmates and friends, was meant to be wrapped up for good. It's why I prefer the ending where Shepard survives. I can imagine Shep retiring in peace with their romantic partner, whoever that may be. To have survived that ending Shep had to be broken and the shattered infrastructure was unlikely to be capable of restoring Shepard to perfection like it did with Cerberus. Fresh protagonist is the way to go. Somewhat more lighthearted, maybe one of those soldiers who has breathed a sigh of relief after the end of the Reaper War. Maybe then a new threat pops up and said soldier has to rise up and become the leader the people need. This would be a soldier who has seen action] in the war but who is young enough to be in her/his prime. Shepard already had a strong reputation at the beginning of ME1. This person would be known but not in the same way. More like a survivor who protected enough people and killed enough husk-ish things that he/she is seen as a hero. Like I said, not Shepard level her but still a hero. Then, over the course of however many games we get, this soldier develops a big reputation. Just an off-the-top of my head kind of thing I like to do but something along those lines. Alliance hero, seasoned but without the huge reputation, survivor of the Reaper Wars and ready for action. I wouldn't mind a new hero too. With a completely vague ending that doesn't conform to Red, Green or Blue. All anyone says is "Shepard saved us all, no one knows what happened to him/her afterwards. Not even the geth know" No returning characters (though I guess with Liara we already know that's not gonna happen). Looking back a the trilogy in any manner besides "Let's make sure not to do that again" is just asking for trouble. But I already know others will hate that, so...at this point idgaf. Bioware's gonna p*ss off a lot of people no matter what they do. The question is will they NOT p*ss off enough people that it's worth the effort to produce the game?
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Aug 11, 2021 19:32:41 GMT
Please no soldier or any military background anymore.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Aug 11, 2021 20:36:02 GMT
I hope I'm not coming out as a fanatic or anything. I love Shepard and I love all the companions, the reason for not wanting them in the next game isn't because I don't want to see them again - I'm just kinda okay with where I left my Shepard and I'm afraid what digging her up again would do to her story. I just don't want a failed last game that leaves her unresolved like Ryder... I definitely don't consider the current outcomes resolved. Even a game where we try to undo Synthesis is a better game resolution. Because Synthesis is definitely a nightmare situation. I mean, you feel like that and I respect that. But some of us are decently content where we left off, or at the very least feel wary enough at the idea of railroading or creating a narrative we are not satisfied with. I think the only way to do it where I wouldn't feel dissatisfied (assuming Shepard is back) is 1) it has to be set fairly shortly after ME3 and 2) there would have to be some kind of explanation for what happened with the endings not chosen (were they the result of indoctrination?). I don't want something contrived like "everyone picked destroy and had X and Y characters survive, and after the war they were all put in the freezer to be defrosted at the right moment".
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Post by Phantom on Aug 11, 2021 23:10:07 GMT
Well I want Liara to return as a Playable NPC but with a twist. Like Quinn of ToR fame, Liara develop an ability to switch from her normal self and Reaper Banshee. Reason, why the hell not have a NPC with Reaper husk mode.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 12, 2021 1:09:45 GMT
I mean, you feel like that and I respect that. But some of us are decently content where we left off, or at the very least feel wary enough at the idea of railroading or creating a narrative we are not satisfied with. I think the only way to do it where I wouldn't feel dissatisfied (assuming Shepard is back) is 1) it has to be set fairly shortly after ME3 and 2) there would have to be some kind of explanation for what happened with the endings not chosen (were they the result of indoctrination?). I don't want something contrived like "everyone picked destroy and had X and Y characters survive, and after the war they were all put in the freezer to be defrosted at the right moment". They have to pick an ending. There will be living survivors of the Reaper war, asari and krogan definitely, that will have even fought on that day. The story cannot have been twisted. The Reapers can either have survived or they didn't. We have better records of battles taking place in 300 BC, than the end of the most important war to ever ravage the Milky Way? Impossible. Absolutely impossible. They'll be ridiculed. They know that.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 12, 2021 5:47:50 GMT
I don't see why we can't have a Ryder who was successful and developed a backbone. It's not that you can't. Imagine the studio behind Terminator: Dark Fate, recent example, making a Dark Fate 2. Maybe Demi is a real intimidating leader of humanity for real this time. Do I trust the idea being delivered competently? If yes now, then why wasn't it the first time? The interest isn't there and there's no trust involved in the endeavor. To put it bluntly, nobody cares. Will some people still go watch the movie? Absolutely. Is it a viable product? Absolutely not. Right now, you can't sell it, to make a profit. And nobody operates to make a loss. They didn't the first time on purpose. They wanted a character was was 180 0 different from Shepard. The point was that Ryder would develop throughout the course of the game. I hear what you're saying but this is true regardless of protagonist because of the BioWare we gave today.
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Post by traks on Aug 12, 2021 8:55:51 GMT
I'm just going to say that, internally, Bioware has all the bases covered. Ryder Andromeda sequel? Check! Shepard Milky Way sequel? Check! New PC Andromeda/Milky Way sequel? Check! The thing is that, for the next game, other than covering a basis of how and why, there isn't much to it, as of yet. And it's also quite interchangeable. The choice for protagonist and squad won't be made until far later. Even location, if they think they can sell people another Andromeda. The thing with compartmentalization of development is that it is all very flexible in its interchangeability. The fact that Andromeda is so similar to the Milky Way is another thing that conveniences them a lot. And it seems it never was from lack of originality, but rather on purpose. Citadel or Nexus makes little difference. For choice of protagonist: If they stay with Ryder, people will be p*ssed because it's not Shepard If Shepard returns, people are gonna be p*ssed because it's not Ryder (and especially if they reset Shepard yet again, or worse, make it a clone!) If they go with a fresh protagonist, people are gonna be p*ssed because it's not Ryder OR Shepard If they go back to Andromeda, people will be p*ssed because Andromeda If they go back to the Milky way, people will be p*ssed because it's NOT Andromeda, especially if their personal endings to the trilogy aren't validated. The IP may have been loved in the past, but at this point it's so radioactive I don't know HOW they think they can salvage it. What happened to just trying to have fun with a game?
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Post by jamierose95 on Aug 12, 2021 10:40:50 GMT
Any franchise can be salvage. Look at star wars sequel trilogy everyone has forgotten that now because of the mandalorian. Same thing will happened with mass effect and game of thrones.
Look at halo every person gets so hype about it when new release comes out even the last two games wasn't that good.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 12, 2021 11:23:20 GMT
Please no soldier or any military background anymore. So that means not having Ryder return for a sequel? Sounds like a plan.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 12, 2021 13:31:11 GMT
For choice of protagonist: If they stay with Ryder, people will be p*ssed because it's not Shepard If Shepard returns, people are gonna be p*ssed because it's not Ryder (and especially if they reset Shepard yet again, or worse, make it a clone!) If they go with a fresh protagonist, people are gonna be p*ssed because it's not Ryder OR Shepard If they go back to Andromeda, people will be p*ssed because Andromeda If they go back to the Milky way, people will be p*ssed because it's NOT Andromeda, especially if their personal endings to the trilogy aren't validated. The IP may have been loved in the past, but at this point it's so radioactive I don't know HOW they think they can salvage it. What happened to just trying to have fun with a game? Went out the window when they started importing choices across games. Now they gotta carry more and more baggage with each installment.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 12, 2021 13:34:17 GMT
Any franchise can be salvage. Look at star wars sequel trilogy everyone has forgotten that now because of the mandalorian. Same thing will happened with mass effect and game of thrones. Look at halo every person gets so hype about it when new release comes out even the last two games wasn't that good. Much of The Mandalorian's success seems to be the fact that it largely ignores the sequel tribology (in part because it's set only six years after RotJ) And it has been suggested that it is actually a separate timeline. If Will Continue has the cojones to do that: completely ignore the trilogy and make a game in the ME setting and reminiscent of what made the series good prior to ME3, I will be the first to go bravo!
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 12, 2021 13:45:01 GMT
I hear what you're saying but this is true regardless of protagonist because of the BioWare we gave today. Not gonna disagree, but at some point, a character gets "tainted". Like the idea of getting another Star Trek with Michael Burnham. Nothing to do with Sonequa Martin-Green, who I actually like and, depending on her performance per episode, I can tell if she likes the story she is playing or not, if she's into it, or not, it's just that the idea that we will have to put up with a character that didn't go over well last time is difficult. A lot of people will say that Ryder changes by the end of the game, but that's irrelevant at this point. People checked out and media opinion pieces don't change that fact, because gaming media has become a joke over the past decade, that nobody pays any mind to. They just watch videos on youtube, now.
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Post by traks on Aug 12, 2021 13:47:06 GMT
What happened to just trying to have fun with a game? Went out the window when they started importing choices across games. Now they gotta carry more and more baggage with each installment. Ah, in general I get that sentiment, but they stopped that for Mass Effect in 2012. Would be nice to get it back, but 12-14 years (or whenever the next game comes out) after ME3 you shouldn't worry about importing choices. Next game will not import from the trilogy and just maybe something from Andromeda, although I don't think so, if we start with the third protagonist. All I care about is whether it'll be a good game with a great, exciting story and as good gameplay as in the previous game(s). So let's not worry about people being pissed, but rather whether they can come up with a game, we can all have fun with and are excited by after finishing it. If we want more after the next game, it's mission accomplished in my book.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 12, 2021 14:47:44 GMT
Went out the window when they started importing choices across games. Now they gotta carry more and more baggage with each installment. Ah, in general I get that sentiment, but they stopped that for Mass Effect in 2012. Would be nice to get it back, but 12-14 years (or whenever the next game comes out) after ME3 you shouldn't worry about importing choices. Next game will not import from the trilogy and just maybe something from Andromeda, although I don't think so, if we start with the third protagonist. All I care about is whether it'll be a good game with a great, exciting story and as good gameplay as in the previous game(s). So let's not worry about people being pissed, but rather whether they can come up with a game, we can all have fun with and are excited by after finishing it. If we want more after the next game, it's mission accomplished in my book. In part, that's true. MEA's biggest sin was that it was just a boring game. But even so, the need to go to an entirely new galaxy was to escape the radioactive dumpster fire that is ME3. I'm not worried about people being p*ssed, I KNOW it will happen, and will simply enjoy the show. But Bioware DOES have to worry about it, because p*ssed off players are a lot less likely to buy the game.
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Post by jamierose95 on Aug 12, 2021 16:09:42 GMT
Any franchise can be salvage. Look at star wars sequel trilogy everyone has forgotten that now because of the mandalorian. Same thing will happened with mass effect and game of thrones. Look at halo every person gets so hype about it when new release comes out even the last two games wasn't that good. Much of The Mandalorian's success seems to be the fact that it largely ignores the sequel tribology (in part because it's set only six years after RotJ) And it has been suggested that it is actually a separate timeline. If Will Continue has the cojones to do that: completely ignore the trilogy and make a game in the ME setting and reminiscent of what made the series good prior to ME3, I will be the first to go bravo! That's what they should do. I do like AA budget anyway not every game doesn't need AAA budget game.
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Post by traks on Aug 12, 2021 16:50:24 GMT
Ah, in general I get that sentiment, but they stopped that for Mass Effect in 2012. Would be nice to get it back, but 12-14 years (or whenever the next game comes out) after ME3 you shouldn't worry about importing choices. Next game will not import from the trilogy and just maybe something from Andromeda, although I don't think so, if we start with the third protagonist. All I care about is whether it'll be a good game with a great, exciting story and as good gameplay as in the previous game(s). So let's not worry about people being pissed, but rather whether they can come up with a game, we can all have fun with and are excited by after finishing it. If we want more after the next game, it's mission accomplished in my book. In part, that's true. MEA's biggest sin was that it was just a boring game. But even so, the need to go to an entirely new galaxy was to escape the radioactive dumpster fire that is ME3. I'm not worried about people being p*ssed, I KNOW it will happen, and will simply enjoy the show. But Bioware DOES have to worry about it, because p*ssed off players are a lot less likely to buy the game. Yeah, but you gave the answer with the initial post I quoted: paraphrased, whatever they do, someone will be pissed. So they can't worry for too long about that and simply have to concentrate on how they can tell the most exciting story and go with it. Interest in the franchise is still high as the remaster shows, so the best bet is that enough people will buy the next instalment. If that's a great game, the franchise will continue. Edit: Worrying about people being pissed is a waste of time and hinders the creativity of the writers IMO. In the end it's about: can they come up with a good story?
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Post by Iakus on Aug 12, 2021 17:15:06 GMT
In part, that's true. MEA's biggest sin was that it was just a boring game. But even so, the need to go to an entirely new galaxy was to escape the radioactive dumpster fire that is ME3. I'm not worried about people being p*ssed, I KNOW it will happen, and will simply enjoy the show. But Bioware DOES have to worry about it, because p*ssed off players are a lot less likely to buy the game. Yeah, but you gave the answer with the initial post I quoted: paraphrased, whatever they do, someone will be pissed. So they can't worry for too long about that and simply have to concentrate on how they can tell the most exciting story and go with it. Interest in the franchise is still high as the remaster shows, so the best bet is that enough people will buy the next instalment. If that's a great game, the franchise will continue. Edit: Worrying about people being pissed is a waste of time and hinders the creativity of the writers IMO. In the end it's about: can they come up with a good story? There seems to be an interest in what Mass Effect WAS, but is there interest in where Mass Effect IS? Or where it is going? I'd say they have to at least factor in fan anger, because all the creativity in the world won't help if no one buys the product.
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Post by traks on Aug 12, 2021 17:30:55 GMT
Yeah, but you gave the answer with the initial post I quoted: paraphrased, whatever they do, someone will be pissed. So they can't worry for too long about that and simply have to concentrate on how they can tell the most exciting story and go with it. Interest in the franchise is still high as the remaster shows, so the best bet is that enough people will buy the next instalment. If that's a great game, the franchise will continue. Edit: Worrying about people being pissed is a waste of time and hinders the creativity of the writers IMO. In the end it's about: can they come up with a good story? There seems to be an interest in what Mass Effect WAS, but is there interest in where Mass Effect IS? Or where it is going? I'd say they have to at least factor in fan anger, because all the creativity in the world won't help if no one buys the product. Of course there is interest in what comes next. Whether they'll succeed? No one knows. So again: concentrate on the game without overthinking it and see what happens. The next game will make or break the series, no matter what, so all they can do is to bring out the most exciting story they can think of. As a player, I'll go in open minded into whatever they come up with.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 12, 2021 18:38:35 GMT
Yeah, but you gave the answer with the initial post I quoted: paraphrased, whatever they do, someone will be pissed. So they can't worry for too long about that and simply have to concentrate on how they can tell the most exciting story and go with it. Interest in the franchise is still high as the remaster shows, so the best bet is that enough people will buy the next instalment. If that's a great game, the franchise will continue. Edit: Worrying about people being pissed is a waste of time and hinders the creativity of the writers IMO. In the end it's about: can they come up with a good story? There seems to be an interest in what Mass Effect WAS, but is there interest in where Mass Effect IS? Or where it is going? I'd say they have to at least factor in fan anger, because all the creativity in the world won't help if no one buys the product. Especially since fan anger has doomed some of their games before they’ve even been released.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 12, 2021 19:17:42 GMT
There seems to be an interest in what Mass Effect WAS, but is there interest in where Mass Effect IS? Or where it is going? I'd say they have to at least factor in fan anger, because all the creativity in the world won't help if no one buys the product. Especially since fan anger has doomed some of their games before they’ve even been released. You're not wrong. I always said MEA would have gotten less hate if it wasn't a "Mass Effect" game, but had been the first of a new IP.
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Post by traks on Aug 12, 2021 20:20:42 GMT
Especially since fan anger has doomed some of their games before they’ve even been released. You're not wrong. I always said MEA would have gotten less hate if it wasn't a "Mass Effect" game, but had been the first of a new IP. Maybe. But without the secret reason of fleeing the Reapers, the story would make even less sense, because we are still waiting for the answer what the Andromeda Initiative wants in Andromeda and why they freeze themselves for 600 years instead of going somewhere in the Milky way to build a colony there. In ME they can retroactively give the Initiative a purpose, as a new IP it would've failed from the start, because of it's lack of a proper premise to start the story. So water under the bridge. It is a ME entry and now we go on. Either by picking up some open story threads - and there are some interesting story bites in MEA - or by something new. The point is: we gotta be open for anything, because maneuvering ourselves into a corner is pretty unhealthy IMO. How likely is it that BioWare accidentily exactly hits that corner some here are sitting in?
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Post by Iakus on Aug 12, 2021 20:30:50 GMT
You're not wrong. I always said MEA would have gotten less hate if it wasn't a "Mass Effect" game, but had been the first of a new IP. Maybe. But without the secret reason of fleeing the Reapers, the story would make even less sense, because we are still waiting for the answer what the Andromeda Initiative wants in Andromeda and why they freeze themselves for 600 years instead of going somewhere in the Milky way to build a colony there. In ME they can retroactively give the Initiative a purpose, as a new IP it would've failed from the start, because of it's lack of a proper premise to start the story. So water under the bridge. It is a ME entry and now we go on. Either by picking up some open story threads or by something new. The point is: we gotta be open for anything, because maneuvering ourselves into a corner is pretty unhealthy IMO. How likely is it that BioWare accidentily exactly hits that corner some here are sitting in? If Mass Effect: Andromeda had simply been "Andromeda" then they could have left the Milky Way to go exploring other galaxies for any reason that could be dreamed of. Reapers need not enter the equation at all. Heck, in this setting, maybe the Milky Way really has been thoroughly explored, and not left behind with 99% of it completely unexplored! And the Andromeda Initiative could have been a genuine technological marvel that everyone knew about, rather than be a completely unremarked upon quantum leap forward in drive technology that could have COME IN REALLY HANDY in the Reaper War.
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